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Previews Bayonetta 3 Previews Going Up

Obligatory "game is great but held back by the Switch" preview already dropped. I'm waiting for the review saying it doesn't have robust sidequests like Nier Automata and we have completed the duo of idiocy.
 
more previews
 
Expecting the demo to drop in the first week of October tbh. They did that with Kirby and Three Hopes as well
 
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Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with pointing out the aging Switch hardware in game previews? Xenoblade 3 is my GOTY behind Elden Ring this year, but of course I'd like to see that gorgeous world in 4K with better anti-aliasing, steady performance, etc. A game like Bayonetta 3 requires great performance even more due to its fast-paced action, right?
 
Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with pointing out the aging Switch hardware in game previews?
I don't see the issue in and of itself either. When taking the specific context into account ("Bayo being locked down by Nintendo", that whole affair, etc.), one might read it as kind of a suggestive "I wish this was on another platform" kind of opinion.
I don't think that's the healthiest way to take these statements, but that's obviously up to the individual in question.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with pointing out the aging Switch hardware in game previews? Xenoblade 3 is my GOTY behind Elden Ring this year, but of course I'd like to see that gorgeous world in 4K with better anti-aliasing, steady performance, etc. A game like Bayonetta 3 requires great performance even more due to its fast-paced action, right?

"Pokémon Red and Blue are fantastic games but the aging GameBoy makes me wish how it would be as a PlayStation title"
"Super Mario Galaxy is a triumph of gameplay, but the limits of the Wii are a though pillow to swallow"

Imagine doing this for every game. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with pointing out the aging Switch hardware in game previews? Xenoblade 3 is my GOTY behind Elden Ring this year, but of course I'd like to see that gorgeous world in 4K with better anti-aliasing, steady performance, etc. A game like Bayonetta 3 requires great performance even more due to its fast-paced action, right?
No, I've thought that when playing XBC3. At times the image quality is crystal clear and it looks stunning, but not as often as I'd like. It's to be expected as the Switch approaches the 7th year, especially from games that aim to push the system.

The combat changes here sound very interesting though. Looking forward to getting it.
 
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"Pokémon Red and Blue are fantastic games but the aging GameBoy makes me wish how it would be as a PlayStation title"
"Super Mario Galaxy is a triumph of gameplay, but the limits of the Wii are a though pillow to swallow"

Imagine doing this for every game. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
That's not really a fair representation of what's said though, is it? They highlight specific issues: jarring transitions between 60fps gameplay and 30fps cutscenes, washed out image quality and low texture quality. It's hardly the focus of the preview, either, just a handful of lines at the end. Odd that they make it a focus in the subheading, to be sure, but that's presumably to generate hits.
 
That's not really a fair representation of what's said though, is it? They highlight specific issues: jarring transitions between 60fps gameplay and 30fps cutscenes, washed out image quality and low texture quality. It's hardly the focus of the preview, either, just a handful of lines at the end. Odd that they make it a focus in the subheading, to be sure, but that's presumably to generate hits.

Trash headlines deserves to be trashed.
 
The brah look at how the Nintendo hardware is holding the game back discourse is even more ancient than the Switch. It's nothing new and it's always going to be a thing for Nintendo hardware (yeah even for the next Switch), but it definitely is tiresome sometimes..


IGNs preview was kind of glowing, hopefully it holds up over the entire game =)
 
"Pokémon Red and Blue are fantastic games but the aging GameBoy makes me wish how it would be as a PlayStation title"
"Super Mario Galaxy is a triumph of gameplay, but the limits of the Wii are a though pillow to swallow"

Imagine doing this for every game. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
I didn't read any preview that said "Bayonetta should be a PS title" or anything. Just pointing out that the game runs super smoothly, but the visuals take a hit as a result. Framing it in the headline is obnoxious, but the reviews are otherwise glowing. I don't think it's unfair to point out underwhelming visuals unless it's in service of a console-war narrative.
 
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Am I the only one who doesn't see the issue with pointing out the aging Switch hardware in game previews? Xenoblade 3 is my GOTY behind Elden Ring this year, but of course I'd like to see that gorgeous world in 4K with better anti-aliasing, steady performance, etc. A game like Bayonetta 3 requires great performance even more due to its fast-paced action, right?
While I get your point, and I can relate with your wish for more robust hardware, I must disagree. A game should be reviewed based on its merits and whatever hardware it is aimed at, not what people would like it to be. If you go to the extreme far side of your point of view, all games that are not up to standard with an absolute beast of a gaming rig, should get less points. Or a mobile game should never get past a 60 rating or 3Ds shoud all be below 50s as there were WiiUs, X360 and PS4 at the time.

It should, however, be judged on how well it uses the hardware it's built on and reviewed having in mind its possibilities, but never based on what other hardware can be done. A user or reader should get an idea of how good that game is for the specific console/PC they'll be playing it on, not based on what the game could be if developed with higher specs in mind.
 
Most previews are talking about a stellar game which exceeded the already high expectations for most testers. Yet you are bothering only with the one with a somewhat negative tone. Check the others as well, this game is really promising.
 
While I get your point, and I can relate with your wish for more robust hardware, I must disagree. A game should be reviewed based on its merits and whatever hardware it is aimed at, not what people would like it to be. If you go to the extreme far side of your point of view, all games that are not up to standard with an absolute beast of a gaming rig, should get less points. Or a mobile game should never get past a 60 rating or 3Ds shoud all be below 50s as there were WiiUs, X360 and PS4 at the time.

It should, however, be judged on how well it uses the hardware it's built on and reviewed having in mind its possibilities, but never based on what other hardware can be done. A user or reader should get an idea of how good that game is for the specific console/PC they'll be playing it on, not based on what the game could be if developed with higher specs in mind.
This makes sense to me. Would you take issue with a reviewer just citing performance issues without mention of more powerful hardware or "I wish this was on X console?"
 
This makes sense to me. Would you take issue with a reviewer just citing performance issues without mention of more powerful hardware or "I wish this was on X console?"
Absolutely. In my opinion that is actually almost mandatory for a good review, particularly if the issues are damaging to the experience. If the issues are there but almost unoticeable or with little-to-no impact on the experience then leave it out of the review, and let the Digital Fondries of this world do their job for those who like that kind of perspective.

Perhaps I have a very simplistic look at this as I am not really sensitive to this. I am currently playing (and almost done with it,
I have all instruments and I'm about to go to the Wind Fish mountain
) Link's Awakening and I just remembered, while posting this reply and discussing this topic, reading a few months back that it had several performance issues. However, I cannot for the life of me remember of a single performance issue during my playtime so far.
 
Absolutely. In my opinion that is actually almost mandatory for a good review, particularly if the issues are damaging to the experience. If the issues are there but almost unoticeable or with little-to-no impact on the experience then leave it out of the review, and let the Digital Fondries of this world do their job for those who like that kind of perspective.

Perhaps I have a very simplistic look at this as I am not really sensitive to this. I am currently playing (and almost done with it,
I have all instruments and I'm about to go to the Wind Fish mountain
) Link's Awakening and I just remembered, while posting this reply and discussing this topic, reading a few months back that it had several performance issues. However, I cannot for the life of me remember of a single performance issue during my playtime so far.
Link's Awakening never gave me anything more than very mild frame issues, and I bought it at launch. Never understood that one! Are you loving the game? Can't wait for Bayo 3, these previews are glowing.
 
it is what it is, the game is coming for switch and complaining about switch hardware won't change anything. the people who are really pressed about the hardware but absolutely have to play it will find a way to emulate their legally dumped roms on stronger hardware, meanwhile everyone else will just enjoy the game as it is.

great previews btw, can't wait.
 
Link's Awakening never gave me anything more than very mild frame issues, and I bought it at launch. Never understood that one! Are you loving the game? Can't wait for Bayo 3, these previews are glowing.
Yes it’s great. Been a long time since I played a top down Zelda.

Bayo3 I’m looking forward to, but never played the 2nd one. Need to go back to the WiiU and finish that one first so it’ll be a while before I can play it. I’m avoiding to watch full previews (just kind of checking few parts of the preview for bits of gameplay) as I want to avoid spoilers as much as possible.
 
A game should be reviewed based on its merits and whatever hardware it is aimed at, not what people would like it to be.
Isn't that what's typically happening in these previews/reviews though? These games are aimed at the Switch hardware, and suffer as a result in terms of performance. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

It'd be one thing if the performance of these games were great, and people still used the review to bash the hardware for no particular reason. But poor performance is becoming a common theme in reviews for Switch games, and the lackluster hardware is the primary culprit for that, so I think it's plenty fair to point it out.
 
It'd be one thing if the performance of these games were great, and people still used the review to bash the hardware for no particular reason. But poor performance is becoming a common theme in reviews for Switch games, and the lackluster hardware is the primary culprit for that, so I think it's plenty fair to point it out.
what can they do tho? release the games on other consoles, or to wait for the next nintendo one? neither one makes any sense here. this is a game that's been in development for switch since 2017. is the switch hardware the culprit simply by existing?
 
what can they do tho? release the games on other consoles, or to wait for the next nintendo one? neither one makes any sense here. this is a game that's been in development for switch since 2017. is the switch hardware the culprit simply by existing?
They can't do anything about it, but I don't really see how that's relevant. If the game has problems, it should be critiqued on them regardless of how "fair" it is. Games should be reviewed in a vacuum, and the reader should in turn make their own decisions on whether these issues will matter to them.

A game shouldn't get a pass for worse performance, regardless of what the cause for that is. It may not be fair to the game, but reviewers should be explicit about the problems a game has.
 
Isn't Nintendo funding the game? This game probably wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Nintendo lol. Absolutely pointless discussion.

On the other hand, i'm happy that the game is getting some compliments regardless. I gotta finish 2.
 
They can't do anything about it, but I don't really see how that's relevant. If the game has problems, it should be critiqued on them regardless of how "fair" it is. Games should be reviewed in a vacuum, and the reader should in turn make their own decisions on whether these issues will matter to them.

A game shouldn't get a pass for worse performance, regardless of what the cause for that is. It may not be fair to the game, but reviewers should be explicit about the problems a game has.
does it have performance issues? the game will very likely run at ~60fps during gameplay, not sure what can be done to improve that. that's the same performance that bayo 1 and 2 were aiming for.

the game not looking as good as it would have if it was designed for stronger hardware seems like a non-issue to me tho.
 
They can't do anything about it, but I don't really see how that's relevant. If the game has problems, it should be critiqued on them regardless of how "fair" it is. Games should be reviewed in a vacuum, and the reader should in turn make their own decisions on whether these issues will matter to them.

A game shouldn't get a pass for worse performance, regardless of what the cause for that is. It may not be fair to the game, but reviewers should be explicit about the problems a game has.
I just scrolled past the previews so I didn’t listen what those issues were, but I was replying to dragoncaine’s comment where we agreed with the preview that he’d like to see this game and others (he used xeno3 as an example) at higher performance and that’s is point, from a review/preview perspective those are not issues if the game is pushing the system and performing well for its hardware. Poor performance based on something else’s specs to me it does not seem like a good standard. If it was below par to switch hardware I’d agree, but apparently is sub par because “switch is starting to show its age”and this here is where I don’t agree it should be in a review. Switch owners know their consola and it’s limits, review it on the hardware it’s on. It’s not worse performance, if it was then pretty much all console games had bad performance because on pc you can do much better.
 
I just scrolled past the previews so I didn’t listen what those issues were, but I was replying to dragoncaine’s comment where we agreed with the preview that he’d like to see this game and others (he used xeno3 as an example) at higher performance and that’s is point, from a review/preview perspective those are not issues if the game is pushing the system and performing well for its hardware. Poor performance based on something else’s specs to me it does not seem like a good standard. If it was below par to switch hardware I’d agree, but apparently is sub par because “switch is starting to show its age”and this here is where I don’t agree it should be in a review. Switch owners know their consola and it’s limits, review it on the hardware it’s on. It’s not worse performance, if it was then pretty much all console games had bad performance because on pc you can do much better.
Disagree with the idea that games should be reviewed relative to hardware, but perhaps that's a personal preference. I don't really believe in the idea of a game looking/performing well for a console, it either just looks/performs well or it doesn't. If the Switch hardware is the culprit for a game running suboptimally, then I don't see the issue with it being brought up.

If Switch owners know their consoles and its limits, then they should be able to parse a review and decide whether the problems stemming from the poor hardware are enough to be a dealbreaker to them or not. The reviewer's job is the look at the game through a critical lens, not cater it to a specific audience.
does it have performance issues? the game will very likely run at ~60fps during gameplay, not sure what can be done to improve that. that's the same performance that bayo 1 and 2 were aiming for.

the game not looking as good as it would have if it was designed for stronger hardware seems like a non-issue to me tho.
I don't know, I haven't played it. My point isn't really directed at Bayonetta 3 specifically though, moreso the Switch library as a whole.

If reviewers feel the performance and visuals are problematic enough to be brought up, then I don't see the issue with them doing so. And given the lackluster hardware powering the system, I think it's a fair topic to talk about.
 
If reviewers feel the performance and visuals are problematic enough to be brought up, then I don't see the issue with them doing so. And given the lackluster hardware powering the system, I think it's a fair topic to talk about.
of course a reviewer bringing up performance or ugly visuals is fair, no one will argue against that. but it's all relative to the hardware the game was made for, otherwise all console game reviews will be talking about how the game would look and run better on PC. if the game looks decent for a switch game and runs at a solid framerate, talking about the aging hardware seems pointless to me.
 
They can't do anything about it, but I don't really see how that's relevant. If the game has problems, it should be critiqued on them regardless of how "fair" it is. Games should be reviewed in a vacuum, and the reader should in turn make their own decisions on whether these issues will matter to them.

A game shouldn't get a pass for worse performance, regardless of what the cause for that is. It may not be fair to the game, but reviewers should be explicit about the problems a game has.
No, it dont work like this and it never did,if it did then every ds and wii game would get low scores because of the graphics, or some thing like shadow of colossus would get criticized because riddick on xbox looked better,or god of war 2 because of the xbox 360 launch games, or even ps5 games because on pc theres 8k games or whetever, games graphics are reviewed compared with other games on the same system
 
No, it dont work like this and it never did,if it did then every ds and wii game would get low scores because of the graphics, or some thing like shadow of colossus would get criticized because riddick on xbox looked better,or god of war 2 because of the xbox 360 launch games, or even ps5 games because on pc theres 8k games or whetever, games graphics are reviewed compared with other games on the same system
This implies that I think graphics are the only thing that should dictate a review score, which I never suggested and is beyond silly.

This also seemingly suggests that I think anything on a lesser platform immediately looks bad, which is far from the truth. The Origami King is one of the best looking games of the past few years, and a PC port wouldn’t meaningfully improve it at all.

A game either looks good or it doesn’t. That is not the defining factor of a game, but I firmly believe that the platform shouldn’t really come into play. Some DS/Wii/whatever games look great, some look terrible. I’m not going to overlook the ugly ones because of the hardware.
 
The brah look at how the Nintendo hardware is holding the game back discourse is even more ancient than the Switch. It's nothing new and it's always going to be a thing for Nintendo hardware (yeah even for the next Switch), but it definitely is tiresome sometimes..


IGNs preview was kind of glowing, hopefully it holds up over the entire game =)

There wasn't such whining in PS1 Reviews and PS2 Reviews, I wonder why... And PS1 was even going against Dreamcast. The bias is disgusting.
 
Every outlet that's previewed it (even the one everyone is being critical of) raves about how much fun the gameplay is, how cool/crazy the set pieces are, and that it runs at a solid 60 fps. Sounds great to me! Bayonetta 3 looks awesome and I'll take "held back by the Switch" over "the game doesn't exist" any day.
 
There wasn't such whining in PS1 Reviews and PS2 Reviews, I wonder why... And PS1 was even going against Dreamcast. The bias is disgusting.

Switch is giving people PS3 era visuals with better resolutions in most cases.* Console games have been ahead of Switch for nearly a decade now with PS4. PS5 has taken things a pretty massive step ahead of that.

I love the Switch, but don’t pretend it’s not holding developers back. Bayonetta 3 would be a better game on better hardware.

*Edit: please don’t be pedantic about this specific line. yes it’s more powerful than the PS3 but we’re definitely not getting anywhere near PS4 rn
 
Switch is now giving people PS3 era visuals with better resolutions in most cases.
Switch may be less powerful than the PS4, but it's absolutely not "PS3 era visuals". Shaders, effects work, textures, etc are generally of a notably higher standard.

I still play my PS3/360 to this day and their games definitely look older than games made for the Switch.
I often here people say the Switch is two generations behind but it's really more like 1.5, which for a handheld device late in its life really isn't bad at all.
 
Switch may be less powerful than the PS4, but it's absolutely not "PS3 era visuals". Shaders, effects work, textures, etc are generally of a notably higher standard.

I still play my PS3/360 to this day and their games definitely look older than games made for the Switch.
I often here people say the Switch is two generations behind but it's really more like 1.5, which for a handheld device late in its life really isn't bad at all.

* taps the sign *

*Edit: please don’t be pedantic about this specific line. yes it’s more powerful than the PS3 but we’re definitely not getting anywhere near PS4 rn
 
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