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Discussion Andy Robinson: "From what I’ve heard, TPC has taken the response to S/V seriously and is acting on it for future production"

I'm one of those folks who genuinely really enjoys S/V, but damn I'd love it a billion times more if it didn't run like poo.

Also please let me turn exp share off again 😩. And bring back set battling
 
rêverie said:
what do you guys think is more likely: TPC not enjoying the bad press about the mess S/V was or TPC really enjoying the record sales of S/V?

putting on my capitalist hat - i'm sure they recognized the problems, but i don't really think management is going to change anything unless the sales start to look much different. what's the point?

also, who is andy robinson? i see his twitter handle says VGC, but why would he know specifics about internal mumblings at TPC?
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You can only ever release a bad quality product for so long. In the long run, releasing another S/V could seriously detriment the brand value of Pokemon and its goodwill
 
Bonejack said:
They can ignore them as much as they want, the engine core, the big part everything rests on, would still be maintained and developed by Epic.

Not having to take care of that is a massive time and resources saving.

Beyond that, GF would be free to "Frankenstein" the engine as much as they want to their needs. I doubt Epic would care.
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I agree with you that it should result in a meaningful saving of resources. The huge disparity been Pokemon games and other Switch first party games indicates to me that GameFreak isn't using the resources available and is artificially placing time constraints.

The reason MH Stories 2 looks so much better isn't just down to the engine, it's down to the people steering the ship.
 
Bonejack said:
I'll believe it when i see that they're giving themselves more time between new mainline games.
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If they're going to do it, now would actually be the best time since 2026 is the 30th Anniversary of the franchise. They could use that as a primary excuse to release Gen 10 in 2026 instead of 2025, giving them an extra year of dev time than they had with SV.

Meanwhile, they could launch another ILCA remake this Holiday (maybe Johto for the GS 25th anniversary) and the next Legends game in Holiday 2025.
 
put me down as skeptically hopeful, I guess

I've been saying for years that eventually Gamefreak was gonna have to either bend or break, because they're trying to do HD console development on '90s handheld timelines and that just isn't sustainable. Like, there's a reason the studios like Square or MonolithSoft aren't putting out new RPG worlds every other year and it's time TPC/Gamefreak realize they really can't either

but on the other hand, the current way of doing things still makes them absolutely obscene amounts of money, so I have a hard time seeing how they justify pumping the brakes even slightly while that's still the case
 
rêverie said:
what do you guys think is more likely: TPC not enjoying the bad press about the mess S/V was or TPC really enjoying the record sales of S/V?

putting on my capitalist hat - i'm sure they recognized the problems, but i don't really think management is going to change anything unless the sales start to look much different. what's the point?

also, who is andy robinson? i see his twitter handle says VGC, but why would he know specifics about internal mumblings at TPC?
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Option 2, although I don't think it's necessarilly needed your capitalist hat. More like a conservative/traditional japanese company not changing anything unless it's extremely necessary.
 
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While I don't hold quite the same vitriol towards TPC/Game Freak compared to some as of late, even I'm slightly sceptical of this. I guess I'll believe it when I see it. The issues with S/V seem entrenched in over 10 years of outdated technology and processes, so I wonder how likely they are to make the necessary improvements.
 
"Okay, we're gonna respond to your concerns"

"So that means you'll give a the next game another year to cook?"

"Haha, no."

I believe it when I see it
 
Pokémon (the games) has felt soulless and uninspiring for years to me. A big technical and graphical leap in Gen 10 would be great but the problem is deeper than that. I believe Legends has a lot of potential. I've started playing Arceus this year and while it's fun you can tell its their first attempt at doing something different.
 
lexony said:
Yeah they obviously need to change something. Even with the great initial sales of Scarlet and Violet the perception of those games had a major impact on how Pokémon is perceived, even outside the usual fan / gaming circles. If the graphical performance and the overall quality keeps to be this bad I am very certain this would also be reflected in sales numbers at some point and they know that.

Personally I hope that they will add some of the new ideas of Arceus to the next game, but try a different approach with how the open world looks like. I think it should be designed more compact in scale and more like Routes again.

The Idea of Scarlet of Violet that you go around that vulcano wasn‘t bad, though certain places where just too big. Like some of the smaller villages and towns were fine, but the empty space between, the main city and even the beginning area were just way too big and very ugly and made the game appearing even worse than it could have been.
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Honestly I think Mesagoza was way too SMALL. Lumiose City is STILL the largest Pokémon city and absolute FELT huge. I could get lost in Lumiose, not so much Mesagoza.

I think Scarlet and Violet's scale was definitely a bit weird, I'm not sure if they should stick with that size and try and gussy it up, or focus on a compact but much more reactive, detailed world (even moreso than Legends).

Honestly I think I'll buy and enjoy it anyway.

Unless they do a HD2D game, remake or otherwise, in which case, I'm off the train. 🥲
 
Yavga said:
I believe it when I see it, I remember similar sentiments were said after Sword/Shield.

That said, I really enjoyed Scarlet as a first true open world Pokemon game but there is much to be done to make it a more balanced package.
After all they're just games, they can't appeal to every single audience out there.
The only thing I can really call them out for is the lack of polish these last 2 generations.
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They did. They made the open world Pokemon game the fans always wanted
*monkey's paw curls"
 
They really, really should let GameFreak and co. put that stuff in the oven for far longer, and let the spinoffs carry the burden for longer, too.

For example, I would hope that if a sequel to Pokken gets made, it would be both a) supported by TPC longer (and encouraged to have tournament events outside of their jurisdiction) and b) that it would be another vehicle for a game that could carry itself with updates/expansions for another 5 years.
 
Concernt said:
Honestly I think Mesagoza was way too SMALL. Lumiose City is STILL the largest Pokémon city and absolute FELT huge. I could get lost in Lumiose, not so much Mesagoza.

I think Scarlet and Violet's scale was definitely a bit weird, I'm not sure if they should stick with that size and try and gussy it up, or focus on a compact but much more reactive, detailed world (even moreso than Legends).

Honestly I think I'll buy and enjoy it anyway.

Unless they do a HD2D game, remake or otherwise, in which case, I'm off the train. 🥲
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I‘m not so sure either though looking at past titles Gamefreak has much more experience in designing more dense linear levels. Maybe it’s personal preference, but I enjoyed Sword/Shield much more when it wasn’t in the wild area, simply because it had actual level design.

In Scarlet and Violet I felt like everything was not so thought out. Like the big cave in the first route where there is an invisible wall around you because you have to follow that Pokémon, but the cave itself is designed like as if you are able to explore. Though with a better Progression and Art Direction I could also imagine bigger areas.
 
TreIII said:
They really, really should let GameFreak and co. put that stuff in the oven for far longer, and let the spinoffs carry the burden for longer, too.

For example, I would hope that if a sequel to Pokken gets made, it would be both a) supported by TPC longer (and encouraged to have tournament events outside of their jurisdiction) and b) that it would be another vehicle for a game that could carry itself with updates/expansions for another 5 years.
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Only Game Freak can give Game Freak more time. ;D
 
ziggyrivers said:
You can only ever release a bad quality product for so long. In the long run, releasing another S/V could seriously detriment the brand value of Pokemon and its goodwill
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definitely. i'm not convinced they think it's necessary yet, though. they managed to put out S/S, BDSP, and S/V all of which had pretty obvious issues and were rushed and all of which still did amazing sales-wise. i'm more inclined to think they'll do it again and expect the same reward rather than course correct before it's too late. we'll see come pokemon day, though!
 
It's a bit sad that I got really excited about this, but as much as I loved and ejoyed S/V, it's obvious how much potential is left behind. They would be legit amazing games if they had:
-Better visuals a bit closer to what Xenoblade 3 or Zelda achieve. They don't need to be breathtaking either
-A number of complex side quests and a lot of smaller ones
-Actual interiors in the cities. In this game cities feel just like a set for a film. Nothing going on
-Rich multiplayer (actually the second DLC does improve it, I enjoyed farming those points with a friend of mine)

S/V are super fun, the characters are well designed, the new Pokemon are so good, the music I find it excellent. It's like the skeleton of a very very good game that didn't get all the extra features it deserved. I felt the passion behind the project. These games get a pass on the horrible technical performance because they ooze charm. But if they actually met their true potential they would be very close to masterpieces. The story is ok tho, even if it's better than in Sword/Shield.

And this is why I'm excited, because I like the direction Legends and S/V went into and hearing that they will listen to criticism makes me think the next set of games will be what Pokemon really deserve.

I also believe that Pokemon as a whole should go bigger and start licensing more their IP so they can create more games around Pokemon. Not just fun side projects that sell 2 million copies, but actual iterations a la Legends that explore ideas that the classic main entries do not and will not. It would be interesting if:
-Legends integrated more survival elements to it
-They created a Haverst Moon or Animal Crossing like with Pokemon
-They released another line of RPGs oriented towards more adult players, just like Shin Megami Tensei and Persona are catered towards different tastes. Make it action rpg if they really need to make it different from the classic games

Pokemon could be so much more. It's an amazing IP with a crazy amount of excellent, beautiful and charismatic characters.
 
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I wouldn’t mind to see them bringing back the Shadow Pokemon games as the “hardcore/dedicated” alternative, while continuing to expand and experiment with the main series and stuff like Legends. But, I’m also someone who loves the Orre games and also is worried about Pokemon moving away from RPG mechanics as time goes on…
 
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Hope for the next Legends they fully embrace it becoming an action game- Arceus was a half step but there is a lot more potential.
Keep doing turn based for the main series.
 
I honestly don't believe it. Not that Gamefreak isn't capable, but the Pokemon machine is not going to stop and 23+ mil sold of the latest games indicates it's a non-issue in the mainstream.

As always I would love to be wrong!
 
rêverie said:
what do you guys think is more likely: TPC not enjoying the bad press about the mess S/V was or TPC really enjoying the record sales of S/V?

putting on my capitalist hat - i'm sure they recognized the problems, but i don't really think management is going to change anything unless the sales start to look much different. what's the point?

also, who is andy robinson? i see his twitter handle says VGC, but why would he know specifics about internal mumblings at TPC?
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I mean how can they not care about the bad press. How can they not care about how the Pokemon IP from a gaming standpoint is viewed. The 20M+ units does not ease the negativity over the IP and even for Nintendo. I am in gaming circles well outside the Nintendo focused ones like this site. We here separate Pokemon from Nintendo and more just criticize Game Freak or the TPC. Everyone else says Nintendo. From how I see other gamers talk, Pokemon is hurting the Nintendo brand (just not financially).

Everything else about Pokemon is firing on all cylinders. The merch is great with some serious high quality shit, the cards are amazing with art that continues to get better and better, and the anime as far as I know is doing well. I mean Pokemon Journeys was a great success. If you want quality Pokemon stuff...the games are just not the place for it. It's the only place where the quality is a disservice to the IP. I say this as someone who liked Legends and Scarlet a lot.
 
I do believe that they are concerned about game quality and want to solve the issue, but if Pokémon Day 2025 rolls around and they announce Gen 10 as starting that holiday, I'm not sure how I'd feel.
 
maniacmaison said:
-Better visuals a bit closer to what Xenoblade 3 or Zelda achieve. They don't need to be breathtaking either
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I can't get this ScaVio concept art from Game Freak out of my head.

pokemon-scarlet-violet-concept-art-looks-gorgeous-v0-5ei668osjvjb1.jpg
 
cire said:
S/V is my favorite mainline Pokemon game in decades. If they can keep the core from that game while providing technical improvements, that would be fantastic.
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Same. The game's performance could be better, but what I really care is that it's the most fun gen since DPPt.

And honestly, if you asked me if I want more polish and better performance or more content, options and bigger scope, I'd go for the second option without batting an eye.
 
Serif said:
I can't get this ScaVio concept art out of my head.

pokemon-scarlet-violet-concept-art-looks-gorgeous-v0-5ei668osjvjb1.jpg
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I mean, Switch 2 Pokemon games are totally gonna look like this. I'm 100% sure of that. This concept is not technically crazy, but it's beautiful, simple and it works. With better optimization eased by more powerful hardware and more development time, they can do this.
 
maniacmaison said:
I mean, Switch 2 Pokemon games are totally gonna look like this. I'm 100% sure of that. This concept is not technically crazy, but it's beautiful, simple and it works. With better optimization eased by more powerful hardware and more development time, they can do this.
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yo don't even need a switch 2 for this. Zelda already achieved this on the Wii U. I suspect this image was made on the unrefined code that shipped with SV, so it ran fine on PC but couldn't run on Switch
 
ILikeFeet said:
yo don't even need a switch 2 for this. Zelda already achieved this on the Wii U. I suspect this image was made on the unrefined code that shipped with SV, so it ran fine on PC but couldn't run on Switch
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Yeah, that's what I meant when I said better optimization. Devs are known to brute force their code with the PS5 and Xbox because they can. The Switch needs much better optimization, which Game Freak's hasn't done yet with its engine. So I hope the power of the Switch 2, that should be able to pull off much much better graphics than that image, at least allows them to do what we see here with their shitty engine. I don't expect them to do something at the level of a Switch 2 Zelda.
 
I do not think things will really improve on the development front time allocation-wise. What I believe is they will scale back things a bit and not be as ambitious. That and better hardware with the Switch succesor will improve the titles performance-wise.
 
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NabiscoFelt said:
I'm just hoping that their response isn't to cut down on ambition just to make the games run better
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I think there's no chance that's what they are doing, and yeah, I wouldn't want it either. Their Switch history from LGPE to SV shows the exact opposite, and now that COVID isn't impacting development and that they have way more open world design experience under their belt the studio is in a better place than ever. No doubt about it.

They really need to address the tech issues though, no getting around that. A longer dev. cycle is the easiest and wisest choice for that, though they might try solving the problem without taking that dreaded* route.

(*dreaded by Game Freak and TPC's higher-ups)
 
I can believe there are voices within TPC/Game Freak that are saying this.

I'm not sure those voices are the people actually making the decisions, the ones who can't hear the backlash over the sound of the money printers going brrrrr
 
Zellia said:
I can believe there are voices within TPC/Game Freak that are saying this.

I'm not sure those voices are the people actually making the decisions, the ones who can't hear the backlash over the sound of the money printers going brrrrr
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That's about where my expectations lie.

I don't have regrets about buying Scarlet (thankfully never bought either SwSh), but at this point I'm no longer doing pre-orders with Pokemon. The reviews and early impressions can sell me on the gen 10 games or not.
 
I will believe it when I see it, Scarlet/Violet didn't even patch it's performance even after Nintendo had to make a public statement about how that would be fixed.
 
I believe it. Scarlet/Violet is an outlier in the grand scheme of things. Legends Arceus, the game released in the same year, by all accounts looks much better and runs at a stable 30fps. Let’s Go and Sword/Shield ran pretty good too.

It’s clear that SV was too ambitious for it’s own good and that the engine they’ve developed for Sun/Moon on 3DS just couldn’t handle an open world console game.
 
Game Freak has routinely always been technically washed by their contemporaries with the exception of Gen 5 and maaaaybe 7 (but that ran bad). I don't see this changing any time soon, unfortunately.

However, despite Scarlet/Violet being my second favorite generation only behind Gen 5, they can't be this technically inept. They need to go back to at least 4 year gaps between generations like they were doing until Gen 6, the one generation they jumped to 3D??? God.
 
JazzyFuture said:
I will believe it when I see it, Scarlet/Violet didn't even patch it's performance even after Nintendo had to make a public statement about how that would be fixed.
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it was discussed in that bait thread. They never said that all problems would be fixed. There were several patches that slightly fixed performance in specific areas or parts of the game but not collectively, obviously.

Leviraps said:
I believe it. Scarlet/Violet is an outlier in the grand scheme of things. Legends Arceus, the game released in the same year, by all accounts looks much better and runs at a stable 30fps. Let’s Go and Sword/Shield ran pretty good too.

It’s clear that SV was too ambitious for it’s own good and that the engine they’ve developed for Sun/Moon on 3DS just couldn’t handle an open world console game.
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I said it once (more like 20 times)and I'll say it again, the Let's Go games are underrated and I would not be pressed if we got more of em. Sword and shield were fine but I don't think the games had as many Pokemon in the overworld. Legends was also smaller in scope. It wasn't exactly open world with the whole map at your disposal.
 
Who knows if Palworld success can be an eye opener for them. From what i've seen on twitter much of the hype about Palworld seems to come from hatred of Gamefreak and the quality of their Pokemon games, so if they continue on current trajectory it seems a chunk of traditional Pokemon buyers could switch to Palworld permanently.
 
Danny said:
Who knows if Palworld success can be an eye opener for them. From what i've seen on twitter much of the hype about Palworld seems to come from hatred of Gamefreak and the quality of their Pokemon games, so if they continue on current trajectory it seems a chunk of traditional Pokemon buyers could switch to Palworld permanently.
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Why would a game that plagiarized their games be an eye opener for them?
 
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