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Discussion Eiji Aonuma confirms BOTW/TOTK will be the template for Zelda going forward

Thunder84 said:
I don’t see the need for Wind Waker to return. BotW and TotK are so great because exploration is purposeful at every given moment. Spending so much time traveling by boat takes away from that.

It worked great with the old formula to centralize the content spread throughout the world into localized islands, all while packaging it under a fun theme and setting. I don’t see it translating to the formula we have now without significant altercations.
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I think a nautical BoTW/ToTK styled game would probably have underwater exploration and more water based encounters to give the ocean more importance than just being space you travel through
 
Zeal543 said:
That's fine, hopefully they don't have to poach talent from Monolith this time around
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I suspect these games are so remarkable because of Monolith's involvement, not just as ancillary support. So they should poach even more staff in future.

Monolith are legit the GOATs of open-world games. Rockstar are unmatched in terms of realism, but creatively, Monolith/EPD are a whole different league.

Also, y'all need to stop talking about a flooded hyrule and underwater exploration. I'm already playing the next game in my head, and the wait is already excruciating.
 
Here come a bunch of posts about this structure being inherently bad, or something, even though it's the most successful the series has ever been and this has resonated with far more players than my beloved Ocarina of Time.
 
NabiscoFelt said:
I think a nautical BoTW/ToTK styled game would probably have underwater exploration and more water based encounters to give the ocean more importance than just being space you travel through
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I guess you should never doubt the Zelda team, but underwater traversal in an action adventure game like this is a lot harder to make enjoyable, especially at the scale that this Zelda formula would require. The amount of swimming that the player would need to do would be absurd, more than any Nintendo game we’ve ever seen. Not to mention how much empty space there’d be between the ocean floor and the surface.

I just don’t think the effort would be worth it. Even the best designed water physics will still turn off a good chunk of people, and I doubt it’d win over enough people to compensate. It’s high risk, low reward
 
This isn't surprising, really. BotW and TotK both ran circles around the sales of the OoT template games and the shift in format seems to have been creatively positive for the dev team as well.
 
The logical next step for an open air game would be to be fully realized Wind Waker. I would say make the map 2x BotW Hyrule and have that ration be like 66% land 34% ocean. Have like 3 "continents" that are the size of like 3-4 botw regions, several big islands that are the size of 1 botw region, then a ton of smaller islands all over the ocean to explore.

Go really crazy and have the map be a sphere so you loop when you reach the edge.
 
Hailinel said:
This isn't surprising, really. BotW and TotK both ran circles around the sales of the OoT template games and the shift in format seems to have been creatively positive for the dev team as well.
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To be more precise, BotW alone has outsold all mainline 3D console Zelda games combined (not counting remasters and remakes).

If TotK somehow manages to outsell BotW, there's really no reason for them to drastically change the overall template until sales start to decline significantly.
 
Next game being a new hyrule, even more traditional dungeons, and a new art style would be perfect. The Wii U tech demo artstyle is my dream for the next Zelda installment
 
I love Wind Waker but spending 75% of my time in a BotW sized world in a boat sounds boring. They can reuse the art style for sure, but we don’t need Wind Waker 4.

Honestly I’d rather they make a game based on that Wii U tech demo with the greatly improved Twilight Princess artstyle way more than another Wind Waker. Nintendo really teased us with that :(
 
Good, we got 5 games in the OoT format, I wonder if they treat that like 2D Zelda where we get the occasional remake (beyond the remakes we already have) or spinoffs.
 
DittoM said:
I love Wind Waker but spending 75% of my time in a BotW sized world in a boat sounds boring. They can reuse the art style for sure, but we don’t need Wind Waker 4.

Honestly I’d rather they make a game based on that Wii U tech demo with the greatly improved Twilight Princess artstyle way more than another Wind Waker. Nintendo really teased us with that :(
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That art style was thankfully just that - an HD tech demo. Zelda would lose all its magic if it reverted back to this kind of art style - a huge downgrade imo to the more colorful and expressive BotW / TotK template.
 
Yes sure. Just change the overworld please. It's so far a big disappoitment to me and I'm not really enjoying TOTK.
The surface hasn't change that much. The depths are boring. The sky islands are way too few. I would have prefered a new overworld all together.
 
What people think of this formula is a matter of taste. Personally, after reluctance at first, I appreciate what became the series.

However, it is just as legitimate to like it as not to like it. I disagree with the idea that because a game sold very well, everyone should shut up forever or not have the right to think what they think.

The sales volume of a game is an objective success indicator. It is not an injunction to love something.
 
Thunder84 said:
Think the best way to move forward is to leave behind Hyrule entirely. Don’t need to dump this iteration of characters yet, but take them to an entirely new world instead. Something weird, like Koholint or Termina, that recontextualizes the formula.

Maybe have a new antagonist show up and throw all of Hyrule into this weird new world, and you need to find the important characters like Sidon and Riju in the world, along with interacting with the new characters.
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This is my view. I wouldn't be surprised if this iteration of Link and Zelda got a third game to round out a trilogy - but it would need to be in a new land.

That would also open up things like sea exploration without having to put Hyrule a third world changing event in just over a century. The Calamity and The Upheaval are enough, don't put those poor folks through The Flood as well!
 
MissingNo. said:
It certainly makes sense until it ceases to do, much like OoT having become the template before.
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absolutely. And looking at how Nintendo managed to keep 3D Zelda fresh post-Ocarina of Time with every single installment makes me more than hopeful for the future of Zelda. Still I would not mind them throwing in more "traditional" linear Zeldas from time to time -but I guess theoretically they have re-remasters for that.

i wonder if releasing Skyward Sword HD and Links Awakening HD was a bit of a test for them as well to see how well those games would fare in comparison to BotW and TotK. I guess the result is clear.
 
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boodream said:
What people think of this formula is a matter of taste. Personally, after reluctance at first, I appreciate what became the series.

However, it is just as legitimate to like it as not to like it. I disagree with the idea that because a game sold very well, everyone should shut up forever or not have the right to think what they think.

The sales volume of a game is an objective success indicator. It is not an injunction to love something.
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This post pretty much sums up my stance to a T. There's definitely things I miss about the old games, but I've also put in over 25 hours on TOTK this weekend alone, so... they're doing something right lol

For me TOTK is a lesson in sometimes you don't realize the thing you want until you play it. For me, because I only played BOTW once 6 years ago, the reused map doesn't bother me as much, and the additions and changes make the gameplay loop much more satisfying. I really liked BOTW, but I don't know if I loved it like I am loving TOTK. I mostly just did the critical path in BOTW with a few detours, but in TOTK I'm taking my time exploring every region.

Nonetheless I'm sympathetic to people who feel they lost "their" Zelda as I've felt like that with other series. I would be very curious what the team does when making a brand new open world now with the lessons they've learned from these first two games.
 
I would love to see the Twilight Realm (or at least Midna) in the BOTW art style. I find it frustrating that Wind Waker got several sequels, and many handheld titles used its art style, but the most Twilight Princess got was a spinoff shooting game. So while I know a lot of people really really like Wind Waker, I’d rather see a Twilight Princess follow-up.
 
Here are my thoughts after reading some posts here:

- no, of course they aren't going back to this Hyrule for a third time. They wanted to go back because they wanted to revisit the characters, the story and the world itself. They said that ever since the game was revealed at E3 2019. They did with this Hyrule everything they could, they know people will get enough of this Hyrule for and would not use it for a third time.

- the Wii U tech demo was led by Satoru Takizawa - BOTW/TotK and Twilight Princess art director (that's why it look s alot like Twilight Princess.) But it was just nothing more as a tech demo, that artstyle would never work in this world and it's setting. When GameCube was revealed, they also showed more realistic Zelda demo and then we got Wind Waker because that artstyle was fitting for that setting.

- “I imagine there are a lot of people who have wondered why the visuals for The Legend of Zelda change with each new entry in the series. We look for the best way to express the unique spirit of that particular game and create a world that will be exciting for players to jump into and explore. Often, the results come from trial and error.” - so the next Zelda will use artstyle that is the best fit for it's world, as with any other.

- They know that it will take a while until the next Zelda will be ready, so they need to hold us over with 2D Zelda, but that would not be done in EPD3.

As for the news itself, this is no surprising and was said ever since BOTW was successfull, this is future of Zelda for now.
 
ITSMILNER said:
I would hope they change the land next time though, as much as I am loving TOTK, having a third game set in the same area would be a bit much.
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I’ve played Stalker and it’s two sequels (well one is a prequel) and all 3 share nearly the same map and I’ve never had a problem with that.

But the next game will have new assets so I think it will be a clean state on where the game will be set on
 
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BassForever said:
The logical next step for an open air game would be to be fully realized Wind Waker. I would say make the map 2x BotW Hyrule and have that ration be like 66% land 34% ocean. Have like 3 "continents" that are the size of like 3-4 botw regions, several big islands that are the size of 1 botw region, then a ton of smaller islands all over the ocean to explore.

Go really crazy and have the map be a sphere so you loop when you reach the edge.
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That's not logical at all, Wind wakers overworld sucked. It's literally an empty sea, and they did everything in their power to reduce the amount of time you have to spend on it in the HD remaster for a reason.

Having 1/3rd of your overworld be completely barren and impossible to have things in is just a fundamentally terrible idea.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
That's not logical at all, Wind wakers overworld sucked. It's literally an empty sea, and they did everything in their power to reduce the amount of time you have to spend on it in the HD remaster for a reason.

Having 1/3rd of your overworld be completely barren and impossible to have things in is just a fundamentally terrible idea.
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Dunno but there is something great about exploring islands in the sea. I always like exploring them in games. I think Wind Waker style exploration with the open world mechanic they have now, plus underwater exploration would be a good next step.
 
I wonder how far they can take this.

Given it's all but officially confirmed that the next mainline Zelda game will see a release on whatever comes after Switch in some ~5 years, one thing they can do is increase the scope even further.

Which is an insane thing to think about given how much bigger TotK already is compared to BotW ... and that one the same hardware.
 
LukasManak22 said:
no, of course they aren't going back to this Hyrule for a third time. They wanted to go back because they wanted to revisit the characters, the story and the world itself. They said that ever since the game was revealed at E3 2019. They did with this Hyrule everything they could, they know people will get enough of this Hyrule for and would not use it for a third time.
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While it was a joke, I think it was expected. This was meant to be the third DLC, but the scope of it was so huge that it had to be its own thing.
 
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I prefer this template, imo it's not different, it's an evolution. But they should keep remaking the old games between new releases.
 
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Bonejack said:
I wonder how far they can take this.

Given it's all but officially confirmed that the next mainline Zelda game will see a release on whatever comes after Switch in some ~5 years, one thing they can do is increase the scope even further.

Which is an insane thing to think about given how much bigger TotK already is compared to BotW ... and that one the same hardware.
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If they go for a completely new world and new mechanics I can see them keeping the content amount similar to totk or even a bit less. There comes a point where I rather have a game come out every 4 to 5 years instead of devs blowing up the scope.
 
Bonejack said:
I wonder how far they can take this.

Given it's all but officially confirmed that the next mainline Zelda game will see a release on whatever comes after Switch in some ~5 years, one thing they can do is increase the scope even further.

Which is an insane thing to think about given how much bigger TotK already is compared to BotW ... and that one the same hardware.
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I already detailed my vision of a WW open air style game, realistically you can take most of the prior mainline Zelda gimmicks and put them into an open air setting.

LTTP open air with two massive maps, a light and dark world.

OoT open air with two massive maps, could be kid vs adult link, or could be 100/1000 years before/after a great disaster.

MM open air with one massive map, but the world is on a 3-7 day cycle where you keep looping back to different points in the cycle.

OoA/OoS open air where Link travels back and forth between two unique massive maps that share a connection. You could also just do OoS and have one massive map that changes based upon season/weather.

MC open air where you explore a smaller normal map and a massive tiny world map.

I'm sure the people at Nintendo will come up with something far more creative then what I'm throwing around. I just wanted to show how they can reuse a lot of already successful ideas to make new open air Zelda's feel distinct from BotW/TotK.
 
I hope when they make a new world they scale it back a tiny bit so it doesn't take 6+ years to come out. I'm fine with the formula, but I don't want a game once every 6-7 years alongside the death of OoT and TP style Zelda.
 
I think any worry about reusing BoTW assets again are off the mark. This is the last Zelda of the generation and the next one will be built ground up on a "next-gen" engine, designed for new hardware.

Even before this, I thought that for sure they have walked away from the 'bounded' world design a la Ocarina.
That old design is where the 'outside world' is really a wider, but still linear corridor. A corridor that, unlike "inside places", is bounded by natural looking elements such as 90-degrees steep mountains or forest so dense it is just a textured wall. I think that is what is left behind, now that they've proved capable of making a Hyrule without such artifice and contrivance.

but I don't think that constrains them much. They can still make a smaller world that focuses 80% on some dozen Temples and Dungeons... it's just that those linearly crafted episodes will be situated in a more open and dynamic / systems-driven world and have more space around them so to speak.
 
I don't think the Zelda team is prepared for how strenuous this is going to be. It already took them six years to add on to and completely revamp the existing Hyrule, and Zelda's whole thing is reusing Hyrule over and over again. People are not going to want to go "yep that's Death Mountain... yep that's Gerudo Desert..." and so on a third time, they're gonna expect a whole new map with many new landmarks. As fidelity increases, it's going to become an increasingly large ask to start from scratch level design-wise every 1-2 games.
 
I'm ok with this. This doesn't erase the "3 dungeons, then another 6-8" template that was laid down by LttP, and if they feel a need to return to that style they always can similar to how Mario Odyssey hearkened back to 64/Sunshine's style, or how 2D Mario was resurrected after over a decade.
 
He also said back in the days that motion controls would be the standart going forward.
BotW was breaking the rules to reinvent itself, it would be dumb to be once again traped in a formula.
 
I hope they do away with the BotW map entirely and send us somewhere new. I think it works well enough for TotK (though if I'm being honest it still feels a bit too familiar even with the vast number of changes) but I really want a new art style, new characters, new flavors and theming for the next game.

I can only assume by "style" they mean the open world with similar controls, which is about what I'd hope.
 
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We are mere days after us finally getting the pay-off to the years of worries about reusing botw's map, and collectively haven't even scratched the surface of what they've given us.

How anyone can make a blanket claim that a Wind Waker inspired sea-based game is a bad idea with that in mind is entirely lost on me.
 
totofogo said:
We are mere days after us finally getting the pay-off to the years of worries about reusing botw's map, and collectively haven't even scratched the surface of what they've given us.

How anyone can make a blanket claim that a Wind Waker inspired sea-based game is a bad idea with that in mind is entirely lost on me.
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Flat out, I hated the sailing in Wind Waker and the forced sea traversal was just not fun, even in the HD version. So I do not want a BotW-scale game with that restriction.
 
Hailinel said:
Flat out, I hated the sailing in Wind Waker and the forced sea traversal was just not fun, even in the HD version. So I do not want a BotW-scale game with that restriction.
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I mean if Tears of the Kingdom has taught me anything it's that making assumptions on mechanics based on what you've seen before is never a smart idea when dealing with the Zelda team
 
Hailinel said:
Flat out, I hated the sailing in Wind Waker and the forced sea traversal was just not fun, even in the HD version. So I do not want a BotW-scale game with that restriction.
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A sea-based game under the current Zelda open world style would not at all have such restrictions. This is like assuming totk wouldn't be fun because the sky in Skyward Sword was underwhelming.

Options are the name of the game in the new "template" - sure you have a horse as you had a boat in wind waker, but you can also head up to the skies via a tower and find your way anywhere by gliding.

Sailing in WW was a function of the limitations of the time, where the grid-based map design was essential to loading and creating the illusion of an open world. Islands could be any size nowadays, even taking up half of the dang map as a large continent, a separate sea with islands, a sky layer over it all... I think of it more as integration of the sea into the current template rather than it being the sole focus.
 
Create a small map then reuse the minish cap mechanics to turn a small map into a BOTW/TOTK style map

Where the mountains are just giant rocks and the trees are the grass and the enemies are all small insects and bugs.

Subnautica hyrule is good too!
 
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