Spoiler The Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Postgame & Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BGBW]

I liked Z for one very simple reason.

His name was pronounced correctly.

 

[palemire]

Making 3's inciting incident an unintended side effect of Klaus's shit is and seeing how everything plays out from that is 10,000 times more interesting than an Infinity War/Endgame style "tie anything and everything together" climax too, imo.

Yes to all of this. I was so relieved to see that it didn't over-rely on the connections to 1&2 as that was what I was dreading going into the game. And I really hope they don't end up hamfistedly tying the universes back together for later instalments either

 

[BassForever]

I do understand why people hyped themselves into thinking this would be some big pay off game to the Klaus storyline from XC1-2. At the same time the moment they said "we made a story that you can play on it's own" should have been a big red flag that, like XC2, 95% of this game would have no major connections to anything from the prior games outside of general series things like Nopon, monster types, etc

 

[Dunban]

I mean, Aionios is, in some important senses, artificial, but I don't think there's anything to really suggest it's actually a simulation. Just a world that's been carefully engineered to produce a certain outcome. There's some kinda simulation-y aspects, but probably nothing that couldn't be achieved with something like Xenosaga's Unus Mundus Network (UMN), which uh, given Moebius' whole deal, there's probably something vaguely of that nature in place here.

If you're wondering what the UMN is, the non spoiler version is that it's sort of a hyperspace/computer network that can be used for faster than light communications and travel, as well as detailed VR simulations, including ones generated from directly from people's subconscious. The spoiler version is

Spoiler: Xenosaga spoilers

it's basically a network using the collective unconscious, basically the immaterial plane where everyone's thoughts and memories reside, as its infrastructure. Certain sorts of beings, such as the testaments (which heavily inspired the Consuls in Xenoblade 3) and Gnosis exist entirely within the UMN and don't properly have physical bodies.

Also as a fun fact, the UMN has an Ouroboros in its logo:

I'm surprised it took so long to make this connection in this thread, unless I missed it earlier. Moebius is the supernatural entity that is manifested outside of the physical domain. The moment it took over Origin any rules it changed in creating the endless now didn't surprise me. It is a bit strange that the conduit never made a reappearance, but as I was playing chapter 7 and hearing how Z was explained, the only thing in my mind is that Moebius is a new spin on the philosophy of the collective unconscious that Takahashi loves to tap into. If the DLC is a prequel, which is what I'm expecting, I fully expect them to detail the connection between Noah and U-DO Moebius. I'm sure get a clearer picture of what Moebius is even if it can't be fully explained. If there's an epilogue, I'm not even sure who the enemy is suppose to be? I think we might get a glimpse of the future as a bonus in the DLC, but I feel like the game ended essentially how they intended it to.

I actually really loved how they handled connections to 1 and 2. Nothing that overshadows or complicates 3's stuff, just a bunch of smartly handled details that enrich the experience if you've played 1 and 2. The only egregious bit is no Alvis nod, but that's not a deal breaker for me at all.

(Do kinda wish they were more specific in saying how long it was since 1 and 2 pre-Aionios too, but that's more of a personal want spawned from seeing different stuff online then any real problem with the story.)

Making 3's inciting incident an unintended side effect of Klaus's shit is and seeing how everything plays out from that is 10,000 times more interesting than an Infinity War/Endgame style "tie anything and everything together" climax too, imo.

This, I'm glad the main game avoided relying on too many characters and direct concepts of the other games. There's so many references which made me pretty happy, but I think the world of 3 is still enough of its own thing for newcomers like they promised.

 

[BassForever]

The fact we don't see a Consul A or Alvis probably means they'll play a role in the dlc.

 

[chocolate_supra]

The fact we don't see a Consul A or Alvis probably means they'll play a role in the dlc.

Look at the world map, though. It's literally an ouroboros.

Moebius A is Aionios.

 

[Selarmor]

After thinking about it some more, I think I can contextualize my feelings like this:

Whereas XB2 was a very up and down experience throughout the first 9 chapters, the game peaks in its final chapter, and the revelations within serve to elevate the the rest of the game and cap it off.

On the other hand, XB3 is a mostly stellar experience up until chapter 7, but the final chapter is the game's low point, and its relevations bring down the rest of the game and leave a bitter taste.

While XB2 does do some things better, I think XB3 through chapter 6 is better than XB2 through chapter 9. That I still can't decide which I like more overall goes to show just how important a game's ending is, and how much influence one's final impression can have over the experience up until that point.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I do understand why people hyped themselves into thinking this would be some big pay off game to the Klaus storyline from XC1-2. At the same time the moment they said "we made a story that you can play on it's own" should have been a big red flag that, like XC2, 95% of this game would have no major connections to anything from the prior games outside of general series things like Nopon, monster types, etc

They also said 2 would have no connection to the first game

 

[Arynio]

I finished the game a few days ago. I spent the last few organising my feelings and thoughts, and reading this entire thread. Not sure I can contribute much to the discussion that hasn't been put into better words before, but I'd still like to share a thing or three.

It took me 160h to clear it on hard mode, with all heroes recruited. Yes, I'm extremely slow because I love to get lost exploring, and diving into the systems (e.g. every time I change classes I manually edit arts and everything else). I also spent time retrying some UMs which gave me a hard time, until I was able to defeat them. And this is before doing all the postgame stuff and the ascension quests, which I just started yesterday with as much excitement (mixed with dread/emptiness due to the endgame revelations, but more on that later) as I had day 1. I think this is a testament to how strong the gameplay systems are in this game. I don't intent to put this game down until I've completed all quests and maps. By the way, by turning overkills off I managed to stay at the intended level pretty much the entire game, so between that and the hard mode, for the first time in the saga the main story wasn't a cakewalk, which kept me very engaged.

As one of my favourite series ever, this game delivers in spades (or should I say in blades?) in lots of areas, and I'm grateful for that. Overall presentation, gameplay, map design, music, UX, characters, themes, sidequests, and the technical aspects (for the Switch standards, of course) are all sublime and help make this game perhaps the most well-rounded in the whole saga. The forced tutorials in the first two chapters were a bit too much, but that's not really that important. And yet, in spite of all the extremely good stuff, I share important dissatisfaction feelings with many of you, which mainly revolt around two aspects: i) the story, and ii) the setting and/or world-building.

Spoiler: Story related comments

My main issue with the story lies in the premise itself: are we to believe that the people of Bionis&Mekonis and Alrest are able to build a piece of technology comparable to the Conduit in the span of perhaps 1-2 decades at most (judging by Nia's picture and comments)? The same people who a few years earlier couldn't even fly themselves to the top of the World Tree? I'm sorry but WHAT? And on top of it, each half would have to be built in a different world, so that they would perfectly connect as the worlds collide? Hum I sorry... what? This is a matter which required lots of careful exposition, but nothing was given (except for a cute shout-out to Tora). I mean, it's one thing to accept the existence of the almighty Conduit/Zohar, whose origin and nature is shrouded in an alluring mystery, but this... this makes no sense whatsoever. I could maybe accept that they were able to build a DNA (or even a soul) repository, considering the core crystal technology from Alrest, and the machina's ability to turn biological bodies into mechanical ones (and viceversa, as Fiora would tell you), but being able to outright recreate both worlds (and conveniently separated, so that they don't collide any more) is just absurd to me. And what's even worse, in some ways this story beat even tarnishes the previous games' stories for me. This is why I like more the ending theory that defends that the worlds weren't destroyed and rebooted, but instead just phased through each other, because: i) that way Origin only worked as a life repository (which was able to download all souls back to their bodies after being rebooted, and this is less difficult to believe), and ii) it drains my brain and heart to think that all our beloved characters from the previous games were wiped out (but don't worry because they're all back thanks to the Origin "panacea"). Of course it makes no sense either from the point of view of the characters of the two worlds to just build a repository, because where are they supposed to return to if their homelands are completely wiped out, as they fear could happen? So as I see it, MS cornered themselves into a lose-lose situation (from the overarching story standpoint) with this premise.

And at least for me this is particularly painful after the world-class connection that XC2 brought to the table, which, as someone mentioned here, gave to the previous title as much as it received from it. Hopefully they are able provide more context for the Origin backstory in the DLC, but unless Alvis hopped from another dimension guns-blazing with the Conduit on his shoulders and supervised the construction of Origin I don't see how it can make sense in-universe (not like that Deus Ex Machina explanation would be all that satisfying either, to begin with), but I'd be surprised if the DLC covers that. In addition, the game indeed suffers from several issues in the last chapter, including pacing, lack of exposition, and lack of character interactions. The comparison to the previous datapoint (XC2) again doesn't help at all with this matter. Even though this game was in development for longer than XC2, apparently with more staff, and was content-complete a while ago if rumours are to be believed (and is all-around a much more polished product than XC2 was at launch, no doubt), I guess COVID might have forced them to scale down a bit their ambitions a while ago, and the late-game suffered the most from this.

The other main connection to the previous games, that is, Melia & Nia (and the music themes), was very much to my liking even if their exposition didn't shed enough light on the overarching plot, and they could've been easily replaced with new characters. I haven't done their ascension quests yet, but so far they've provided great moments and memories for us long-term fans. Both their actresses are amazingly talented and I'm very grateful that they agreed to reprise their roles. This was particularly surprising in the case of Jenna Coleman, since she's so famous now (well, it was surprising back when Future Connected released, not so much now, I guess). Thank you, ladies!!!

As for Z, I liked the concept quite a bit. It builds on previous lore from Takahashi (the collective unconscious and the gnosis), and to me it's so much more powerful than a "booo I'm Zanza's ghost" would have been. Plus it fits very well thematically with the rest of the game. I do understand the complaints about the execution, though, and I agree that a bit more exposition and connection with the main cast would have been welcome (although the revelation that he faced them several times before in previous cycles helped with the latter). I also loved the fact that he was as obsessed with the present as Zanza was with the future and the XC2 antagonists were with the past. X and Y definitely needed more context, though. Seems like they were there just for the sake of having yet another thematic trinity.

In spite of my deep issues with the Origin stuff and the unclear dynamics of the two worlds, I liked the ending very much (it gave me huge 'His Dark Materials' vibes) and I cried when the main cast started to run towards each other. Very powerful stuff, especially when you realise they are putting you in the Moebius' shoes. Beyond that, I guess activating a giant machine to fix everything served as a nice back page to the front page of Klaus activating the Trinity Processor to screw it all. I'd love for the DLC to be an epilogue that peacefully reunites both worlds, and thus Mio and Noah, but I'm not optimistic on that. Suddenly the worlds are too young to merge (what?), and Noah and Mio's relationship has already been established as the reincarnations-proof fated kind of relationship that Takahashi loves (oh, and also I feel like the two worlds passing through each other and then drifting apart is a beautiful metaphor of your typical first teenage love). So yeah, even though my heart wishes for an epilogue DLC, my head tells me it's going to be a prequel focused on the founders of the city, perhaps with Shulk and Rex serving as their mentors. I can't move on to the next topic without mentioning the masterful sequences at the end of chapter 5 and the beginning of chapter 6, which also made me cry, by the way. That part has definitely become one of the highlights of the entire saga.

My other main criticism is the inconsistencies of the world. While the setting is extremely interesting, and was the perfect vehicle for MS to explore themes of life and death, of fear and hope, and how different people cope with it all in different ways (and they do it in a very deep and satisfactory way, might I add),
unfortunately the world itself is full of contradictions and things that don't make any sense (at least to me). I guess it's extremely difficult to build a fictional universe so removed from our own, with so many specific rules, laws and conditions, and make everything coherent. But I have the uncomfortable feeling that they didn't brainstorm or flesh it out as much as they should've, because as soon as you start trying to connect the dots, things start falling apart. After 160h playing the game (and well over 1000h with the entire saga), plus many more reading stuff on the internet, there are still so many lingering questions and things I don't understand. I'm sure some of those have a clear answer which I missed or forgot, and others might make more sense with additional exposition from the developers (perhaps in the DLC), but I'm pretty certain that some will never get a proper answer simply because they don't make sense and don't have one.

Here are some of the most pressing questions that I have right now:

Spoiler: Lingering questions

1) What's exactly Origin, what does it do, how is it possible that it even exists? And what happened exactly with the two worlds at the end of the game: were they reconstructed by Origin, or did they simply phase through each other?
2) What's the deal with the Origin metal, which apparently existed in both worlds? Not only was it supposed to resist the collision event, but it's also the raw material for Lucky Seven and the Ouroboros stones.
3) Is the black fog and the subsequent annihilation events the byproduct of the collision of the two worlds? Why are they affecting Origin and the "synthetic" world of Aionios if Origin is supposedly shielded from the collision? Why does the black fog block the Moebius' sight? Is it because it's something external to Origin/Aionios and thus beyond their control? And why are there so many creatures made of fog inside Origin? Is it possible that the fog is instead related to the collective unconscious? But in that case how come the events of Future Connected when nobody was aware of the impending doom?
4) Why do people that reach the Homecoming abandon the cycle? Does that even benefit the Moebius in any way? What happens in Origin when someone reaches Homecoming (i.e. are data for those people removed from the ark? If so, those people won't be able to be returned to their homes at the end)?
5) The main cast never saw old people before meeting Guernica. Does that mean all soldiers are born from the probes at the age of ~10 years (I've read the debate on this matter)? I'm asking because certain characters such as Cammuravi look a bit older. If yes, does that mean that people who were older (or younger) than that when their data were recorded into Origin have never been given a body in Aionios? In that case, and considering that Moebius don't age, how come some of them looked old? In connection with this, where are all characters from the previous games or their reincarnations?
6) This is a common one: the matter of the different races/species' longevity. Why do the 10 terms equate to 10 human years for everyone in Aionios?
7) Another common one: did Z literally stop time (how?)? Or is it that the worlds were rebooted (or the souls "downloaded") back to the starting point but 1000+ years happened in between the first cutscene and the postcredits one?
8) That part in early chapter 5 where the main cast sees a baby for the first time and learn about the normal cycle of life has some of the most beautiful and tasteful scenes I've ever watched in a videogame. That said, what's going on with Nopon from the colonies? They aren't part of the cycle of 10 terms, but perhaps they aren't able to reproduce either? Otherwise the main party should have known about babies (honestly, just looking at the rest of the animals or "monsters" should be enough clue). Do Nopon grow old? In that case, are Moebius "activating" new Nopon to replace those who grow old and die? I know Nopon are mysterious beings in general and something fishy is going on with them, but still...
9) Are Moebius even activating the rebirths of soldiers who passed away or is this something that Z designed and then just happens automatically? What degree of power/control do Moebius actually have on the Origin data? Why don't they remove from the cycle the problematic people, those pesky Ouroboros which apparently battled Z inside Origin many times before? Is it just because he wanted the show to go on and was over-confident?
10) Why aren't Moebius more afraid of Ouroboros considering they have reached Origin (and thus most likely killed their brethren) many times before? I'm not talking about Z, Y, X here, because obviously they don't care, they can simply promote new people as consuls. I'm talking about the rest of the gang, the ones who were people before. The game presents them as if at least some of them have been around for ages. Surely some must have been around when previous Ouroboros rebelled, and should know better. Or perhaps all of them are relatively new recruits?
11) Why are there Ouroboros candidates in the city if Z has fought previous versions of the main cast several times before? Are Ouroboros always the same six people or not? I guess the original Ouroboros were other people but after that?
12) Does it make sense that Moebius never found the location of the second city until Shania's treason when they have so many prisoners from the city?
13) I guess Noah and Mio exist as the hope version of N and M, and constitute sort of an exception to the whole reincarnation system, but is there any confirmation or additional detail about this?
14) Why did Melia and Nia use the Keves/Agnus names for their countries since the very beginning, when those names imply they are being used (as they both mean 'lamb')? I thought those were the names given to them by the Moebius.
15) Was Miyabi mind-controlled by Y, and Mio's music liberated her, or did the music really connect her with her old memories? Perhaps she didn't even die, so it was still the same incarnation of Miyabi that Mio knew?

I also have questions about Lucky Seven but I guess those have a decent chance of being answered in the DLC, judging by the artwork. I liked Riku and Melia's reciprocal nods and feel like that would be fine as a telling implication if we had some additional clue on the sword itself. My guess is Riku's just the current guardian who has inherited the responsibility of passing the sword down to Noah, and Melia is acknowledging the atavic duty of his and all of his predecessors.

Anyway, I'm going to 100% the game, but going back to complete the ascension and regular quests feels very bittersweet now, knowing what lies ahead for the people of Aionios. I guess it isn't fair towards MS that I focused more on the negatives than the more numerous positives here, but I needed to vent my frustration. I'm still very impressed with and grateful for the game, and can't wait for the DLC next year.

Sorry for the extremely long post!!!

 

[sanstea]

There hasn't been any announcement regarding an official OST release, right?

 

[Arynio]

Look at the world map, though. It's literally an ouroboros.

Moebius A is Aionios.

That would be a very neat detail if Ouroboros weren't the enemies of Moebius/Aionios. It would make more sense to me if Aionios had the shape of a Möbius stripe.

 

[chocolate_supra]

There hasn't been any announcement regarding an official OST release, right?

 

[DecoReturns]

There hasn't been any announcement regarding an official OST release, right?

Mitsuda said it’ll be a way before they can make an announcement for that. I think it’s coming for sure, XC2 took a while as well. And we got that and torna officially on iTunes as well

 

[Jbone916]

@Arynio
Thanks for your write-up, I mostly agree with everything you said. I’m glad I’m not the only one who was reminded of His Dark Materials with the way the game ends!

For me, despite its flaws, this game has left a significant emotional impact on me and I can’t help but see it as a masterpiece.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

Spoiler: A bunch of shit that I’ve already said and can be be ignored :)

I‘ve spoken about my disappointment with how XC3 leans on XC and XC2 to inject personality into it’s environments.

But I suppose I’ll summarise it by saying it’s connectivity without a purpose. The world of XC3 is a theme park, with set dressing shipped in from other universes.

Outside of the larger explanation of why these iconic landmarks find themselves in Aionios, nothing is done to give them additional meaning or importance.

The people of XC3 haven’t adapted these iconic areas into something new - and I say the inhabitants of Aionios, but I‘d say the devs just as much.

The City being inside the Mechonis Sword is the one exception and a high point. It becoming a secret base for the ‘resistance’ is awesome.

It’s particularly cool because it was the home of the enemy in the first game.

But so many environments just exist, there’s no fresh interpretation, no neat little twist.

XC3 is happy to point at these things, give you a nudge and a wink - but it doesn’t care about these things.

Monolith Soft had the opportunity to pick and choose bits and pieces from two of the coolest worlds in the medium, think how they might be used in Aionios, etc.

But yeah, it’s all just… there.

Nia and Melia being the queens means absolutely fuck all. They could be literally anyone and it wouldn’t change the story one bit.

Again, it’s the devs saying hey, you love these characters, right? Well here they are. And I’m like oh boy, what are they going to do? And then Takahashi puts his hand on my shoulder says says, well… nothing really. lol

I see some people say people got whipped up into a frenzy expecting an Avengers-style crossover, I just wanted connections worth a damn.

It feels like the team were so desperate to make sure anyone could play it, they forgot they had an existing audience to serve.

And I’d be less irked if they hadn’t liberally used stuff from the first two games to sell this game to me. They showcased fan favourite landmarks, teased two beloved characters, pitched it as the coming together of the worlds, advertised a DLC crossover ahead of release… and even Takahashi said just before release that this was the conclusion to the Klaus Saga.

No one can convince me that they couldn’t have done a standalone sequel, while also utilising the worlds of XC and XC2 in a much more satisfying way.

It’s not that Shulk and Rex didnt come out of a portal at the end, it’s that the way XC3 uses XC and XC2 feels so lame.

And it comes after XC2 was so smart about it.

The only way the game actually manages to utilise the old characters in a meaningful way is by Nia looking at a photo and her City convo with Mio.

These moments are the only ones where the queen being Nia actually adds something.

Regardless, I still would have felt disappointed in the final two chapters, the rubbish villains, the lack of surprise in the narrative, Origin and other issues I have. But it wouldn’t have stung quite as much…

It is excellent in so many respects though and has some of my favourite moments in the franchise.

You‘ll all be delighted to hear, I’m half-tempted to play it again. lol

 

[Momo]

There hasn't been any announcement regarding an official OST release, right?

I know your question has been answered already, but I suspect we’ll get an announcement this month. The game was originally slated for release in September. I’m guessing they couldn’t also push forward the soundtrack release, at least logistically speaking.

 

[DecoReturns]

I absolutely disagree with this sentence “they forgot they had an existing audience to serve”.

There’s a lot of “this isn’t what I thought it was going to be” type criticism that’s really overshadowing the actual game I front of us. No, I’m not saying it’s everyone of course.

But looking back at pre-release. We had expected a lot of older characters to return. Also a lot didn’t think Melia and Nia were robots.

My biggest complaint is that the game just feels unfinished narratively. Or rather went through many re-writes. One side gets all the development. The other gets little pieces and somehow one Agnus solider is the main plot point of chapter 3, until a certain Consul shows up at the end lol. Then there’s chapter 5 ending. It felt like Takahshi trying to re-do a certain other game again and never feels like it actually meshes with the games original themes. It feels like 2 separate scripts that were combined into 1. I know folks love chapter 5 but too me, it’s just feels like we hit the pause button for a bit for the main story lol.

I just feel they didn’t hit the potential their premise had. The 10 years till death and the time crunch for Mio’s death in 3 months never felt like a glooming presence the game wanted you to feel. You got a nice scene here and there, but never felt the characters were in actually any danger. I’m still confused how the Consul couldn’t find them. Their Iris’s stuff still doesn’t make sense to me. Black fog felt like it can do whatever the plots needs it to do.

The whole 10 years thing is what I just ended up disliking. Felt they could’ve gone further with that and didn’t.

 

[Zeal543]

Does mio's line near the start of the game where she tells taion that they were responsible for something that happened in Noah's memories get brought up again? I was assuming they were part of the group that caused Jorvan to get crushed.

 

[chocolate_supra]

That would be a very neat detail if Ouroboros weren't the enemies of Moebius/Aionios. It would make more sense to me if Aionios had the shape of a Möbius stripe.

Oh wait
I thought that "Ouroboros" was to describe anyone who interlinked, including the Moebius interlinks. Is it only to describe those six people?

 

[DecoReturns]

Does mio's line near the start of the game where she tells taion that they were responsible for something that happened in Noah's memories get brought up again? I was assuming they were part of the group that caused Jorvan to get crushed.

I always took it as that her side caused an innocent death. That isn’t as black and white as they were lead to believe

 

[chocolate_supra]

It feels like 2 separate scripts that were combined into 1.

So an Interlink

 

[BassForever]

I absolutely disagree with this sentence “they forgot they had an existing audience to serve”.

There’s a lot of “this isn’t what I thought it was going to be” type criticism that’s really overshadowing the actual game I front of us. No, I’m not saying it’s everyone of course.

But looking back at pre-release. We had expected a lot of older characters to return. Also a lot didn’t think Melia and Nia were robots.

My biggest complaint is that the game just feels unfinished narratively. Or rather went through many re-writes. One side gets all the development. The other gets little pieces and somehow one Agnus solider is the main plot point of chapter 3, until a certain Consul shows up at the end lol. Then there’s chapter 5 ending. It felt like Takahshi trying to re-do a certain other game again and never feels like it actually meshes with the games original themes. It feels like 2 separate scripts that were combined into 1. I know folks love chapter 5 but too me, it’s just feels like we hit the pause button for a bit for the main story lol.

I just feel they didn’t hit the potential their premise had. The 10 years till death and the time crunch for Mio’s death in 3 months never felt like a glooming presence the game wanted you to feel. You got a nice scene here and there, but never felt the characters were in actually any danger. I’m still confused how the Consul couldn’t find them. Their Iris’s stuff still doesn’t make sense to me. Black fog felt like it can do whatever the plots needs it to do.

The whole 10 years thing is what I just ended up disliking. Felt they could’ve gone further with that and didn’t.

I find it funny that your post starts with "There’s a lot of “this isn’t what I thought it was going to be” type criticism that’s really overshadowing the actual game I front of us." Which I completely agree with... and then you proceed to go on with a post talking about the ways in which the game wasn't what you thought it would be

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

Just to make it clear, I don't care about XC3 not including more from XC and XC2.

I was just disappointed by how the used what they took - which I think is fair.

 

[DecoReturns]

I find it funny that your post starts with "There’s a lot of “this isn’t what I thought it was going to be” type criticism that’s really overshadowing the actual game I front of us." Which I completely agree with... and then you proceed to go on with a post talking about the ways in which the game wasn't what you thought it would be

Well yeah, I probably didn’t phrase that part clearly lol.

because That was more about the Xenoblade 1 and 2 connection that I was referring too in regards how the story can turn out. My bad there.

My outcome was more on its standalone stuff. Which always felt like either stuff got cut. Or stuff was added in a rushed matter.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I think the game would've been a lot better if it were truly standalone. I wish it could've been a truly new world with new sights instead of heavily relying on past iconography and making every area turn into a game of "remember this?". Like they didn't need to serve existing audiences and narratively they clearly don't have much more to say about 1 and 2, yet they still stick the Mechonis Sword and Uraya on the cover instead of coming up with new stuff.

 

[BGBW]

I personally don't mind that the game didn't have a last minute shock twist reveal towards the end. The game asks us to head to Origin and face off with Z and nicely didn't pull the rug from beneath our feet on the way. Then again, as I said earlier, I was going through pretty much all the side quests so the actual story beats of the main story are a bit blurred with all the other stories I was following ha ha.

Honestly feels like the "insiders" popping out of the woodwork after Jenna Coleman accidentally let the cat out of the bag didn't help things. If they had indeed heard something, and weren't just using Jenna revealing Melia was back as a springboard for ideas, it clearly was very sparse cos it really did lead a lot of people into thinking XC3 was going to be a lot more crossovery than it was.

As for the how the population in game sees the world - course most of them won't really know much about or question the world around them - their entire education comes from one textbook written to only teach them what they need to survive and fight in a war. No time for history lessons. The entire premise of the endless war is based on most soldier never questioning things. On top of that, we know Moebius actively doesn't want the citizens to know about the history of the world as they've gone around destroying things that could reveal too much.

Plus, I like that the world was mostly just winks and nods for those familiar with the previous games. Didn't really need the game to point out every little cameo in the world as if I was in a tour group.

 

[Deleted member 2181]

I think the game would've been a lot better if it were truly standalone. I wish it could've been a truly new world with new sights instead of heavily relying on past iconography and making every area turn into a game of "remember this?". Like they didn't need to serve existing audiences and narratively they clearly don't have much more to say about 1 and 2, yet they still stick the Mechonis Sword and Uraya on the cover instead of coming up with new stuff.

I don't feel they relied heavily on that stuff at all tbh.
It was just sort of there.


I mean, okay, it's hard to square that against the fact that they're on the cover.

But.

Okay, the way I see it is, the entire game, everything about it, is about the coming together and the splitting off of two worlds. The story, the characters, the combat system. And yes, the environments. It had to be two worlds, it can't have just been some new world. A convergence of two worlds we don't know doesn't make sense.
But by the same token, they're only those two worlds because they had to be, not because there was more to be said about those two worlds specifically. Does that make sense?

 

[Jannyish]

Here's a question, I am curious: Am I the only one who prefers the Eunie/Taion and Lanz/Sena duos over Noah/Mio by FAR?

I don't necessarily mean romantically, but Noah and Mio interactions in general were much more boring to me for the fact that they were so omn the nose, and everything they did and said was either to further the plot or their "fated lovers" narrative (which really, 75% of the plot IS their fated lovers narrative).

The other two duos seemed, idk, more organic to me.

(I know I am probably in the vast minority here seeing how much people praise the Noah/Mio romance as "some of the best fiction ever in a video game", which is a statement I couldn't disagree more with, personally.)

 

[Deleted member 2181]

I hated the Eunie/Taion "romance". There's only so much embarrassed stuttering I can take.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I don't feel they relied heavily on that stuff at all tbh.
It was just sort of there.


I mean, okay, it's hard to square that against the fact that they're on the cover.

But.

Okay, the way I see it is, the entire game, everything about it, is about the coming together and the splitting off of two worlds. The story, the characters, the combat system. And yes, the environments. It had to be two worlds, it can't have just been some new world. A convergence of two worlds we don't know doesn't make sense.
But by the same token, they're only those two worlds because they had to be, not because there was more to be said about those two worlds specifically. Does that make sense?

It just sort of being there is part of my problem. They have nothing interesting to say about any of the iconography. It holds no meaning to the characters in the story, they're completely cut off from the past. It just feels like a nostalgia trip for the player. Ribbit Flats is the only area that seems to be its own thing.

I don't know, I just feel like there was a way to write a story about these themes that didn't bank on returning imagery versus letting us explore a truly new world.

Oh wait
I thought that "Ouroboros" was to describe anyone who interlinked, including the Moebius interlinks. Is it only to describe those six people?

Yea, there can only be six ouroboros at a time. The main six party members are the only Ouroboros in the present, while six of the seven founders were the only Ouroboros of their time.

While Aionios is circular, I wouldn't say it was an Ouroboros. An Ouroboros is a snake eating its tail but Aionios is set up to have a head on either end. One end has Gormott's head, and the other is Bionis's head. Rather than a head eating a tail, its two faces staring at each other. There's probably some symbolism there.

 

[Warlord]

 

[BGBW]

Eunie/Taion? I think you mean Eunie/Ashera.

 

[DecoReturns]

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

 

[chocolate_supra]

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

Same. Eunie is amazing, I'm constantly cracking up at her, and Lanz has depth and character growth that surprised me after expecting he was gonna be more of a stereotype. They're definitely my favorites.
Shoutout to Taion though, for being the one I most related to by far.

 

[Warlord]

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

Definitely Eunie, her personality, how she interacts with the other cast and some heroes, she's just great.

 

[Jannyish]

Eunie/Taion? I think you mean Eunie/Ashera.

You're right, I misspoke.

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

Definitely Eunie. Lanz is a close second tho, then Sena/Mio and Taion are about on the same level. Noah is by far my least favorite. He's just very straight and boring. Expected more out of him as a protagonist, but the real heart of the group ended up being Mio, not him (another problem I have with the Noah/Mio romance...starting from some point, the only person Noah really has any rapport with is Mio...Mio on the other hand seems to care about the rest as well, hence my preference for her...).

 

[chocolate_supra]

"Tirkin That Doesn't Pass The Vibe Check" oh my gahd

 

[Dunban]

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

Lanz truly was the MVP.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Lanz truly was the MVP.

We're all thinking it

 

[Deleted member 2551]

So who’s every body’s favorite main cast member?

I like all 8 of them (I count Manana and Riku. They should count).

But for favorite, it’s probably Lanz and Eunie. Lanz has interactions with the entire cast and plays off so well with everyone. Probably the best written character in the game. Eunie also the same as Lanz, but more on the humor side. I like the balance Lanz had more.

I think Eunie. She feel like the most human and real of the bunch. If I had to rank them:

Eunie
Mio
Taion
Sena
Lanz
Noah

I am so over the Lanz-Noah types of main characters at this point. Especially Noah.

Spoiler

I miss Rex, give me the most naive, pure boys possible next time. I need a goofy, out of place, lovable dork.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I do understand why people hyped themselves into thinking this would be some big pay off game to the Klaus storyline from XC1-2. At the same time the moment they said "we made a story that you can play on it's own" should have been a big red flag that, like XC2, 95% of this game would have no major connections to anything from the prior games outside of general series things like Nopon, monster types, etc

I don't think most people have a problem with a lack of connections to 2.

The existing connections just don't really make a lot of sense, and are dissatisfying to the point that I personally would rather have had them not connect it at all.

The people from both worlds built one half of a God machine that's capable of feats that not even Klaus could do over millions of years with direct access to the Conduit

The concept of fear itself manifests, usurps the God machine, and uses it to prevent annihilation.

Just doesn't feel like a good, satisfying, coherent, or smart story. And yes, the previous games did have good, satisfying, coherent and smart stories, which is why I was hoping for the same with this game

 

[NabiscoFelt]

I think the game would've been a lot better if it were truly standalone. I wish it could've been a truly new world with new sights instead of heavily relying on past iconography and making every area turn into a game of "remember this?". Like they didn't need to serve existing audiences and narratively they clearly don't have much more to say about 1 and 2, yet they still stick the Mechonis Sword and Uraya on the cover instead of coming up with new stuff.

Yeah it felt a bit like they were trying to have their cake and eat it too, by trying to mix two different premises (crossover between 1 and 2, and the 10 year lifespan thing) that really didn't gel well together

The 10 year lifespan situation means you can't really meaningfully take advantage of the cooler aspects of the crossover (Keves and Agnus are really just two different colors of the same thing, at the end of the day). And the crossover means you can't build a more unique setting for the 10 years thing. Feels like they should've picked one or the other, or just made two separate games

 

[TurtleRock]

I disagree with so many of the takes here, that quoting and replying to all of them would take too much time. So i'll just give my basic thoughts.

1. Absolutely loved the game. I went in completely spoiler free and only saw the reveal trailer. I was probably one of the few people hoping the game wouldn't have too much fan service. For the longest time I was worried this was going to be some Secret Wars style "epic crossover" and the story would suffer from having to please everyone in the fanbase. Thankfully the game is not this, and the original story of the main cast was excellent. There is so much character development and it was special watching the characters grow up and overcome their trauma and grief. Parts of the story hit hard for me because I've found myself thinking how scared I am of the future or how I wish I could freeze time and live in one specific moment of my life before experiencing some traumatic event that effected me personally. It's so refreshing to see Takahashi turn that legitimate anxiety into the premise of an entire game. I am REALLY HAPPY that the focus of this story is on Noah, Mio and their friends. It makes the ending heart wrenching to endure because you feel so deeply for the characters. Legit the first time I've ever cried in any of these games. It's refreshing to see an ending to a JRPG that is just bittersweet. I felt that Pyra/Mythra coming back in the last game was huge cop out and delegitimized their sacrificial moment. It's nice to see Monolith Soft go "no, things won't end perfectly this time and that's ok."

2. On that note Takahashi is still a master of incorporating religious subtext into his games. Noah is the main protagonist. Origin is basically the Ark he needs to win control over in order to move on into the future. Ouroboros forms are literally male and female creatures coming together to save humanity and preserve the future. Also, it is telling that in a world where everyone has short lifespans and are in constant war with each other, their one goal in life is to reach their "homecoming" to become one with the religious (and later revealed to be false) idol that governs their lives.

3. Adding on to this. I think they did enough with the ten year life cycle. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I really don't know how to put into words just how cruel and evil the ten year life cycle is. I know that Takahashi reads a lot of psychology texts so I think this helped characterize the ten year system. The characters in this world live from the ages of 10-20. Long enough for them to experience life and for it to "feel" like it's a long time, but not long enough to comprehend just how little that time is. There is plenty of research that shows younger people perceive time "longer" and how they learn and interact with the world. Ages 10-20 are formative years where you live long enough to accept and indulge in wreckless behavior, but you don't quite get to the age where you start to care deeply about the future. You perhaps maybe fall in love for the first time, etc. The game goes far out of its way to establish the inherit cruelty of the ten year cycle and how absolutely messed up it is.

4. I think that the very loose connections to the prior games are necessary. One the main themes of this game is synthesis and coming together in order to fight for the greater good. Every single aspect of this game needs to draw from the prior two games in order to make sense in the now (pun intended). The battle system is quite literally synthesizing the combat from the prior two games, down to the UI symbols used for arts and their charging mechanics. And of course, the strongest combat form is literally two beings that are representative of the prior games coming together to empower themselves. It makes complete sense that the land itself, the actual geographic locations we explore, are also a synthesis of locations from the prior games. In fact, many of the areas in this game are hybrids of two prior Xeno areas put together. You have the Urayan tunnels are blended Tephra cave. The sea area is literally Leftheria and Eryth Sea put together. I don't know why people are complaining about the "geography" not "doing more." To me, the actual world of the game isn't as important as the story of the main cast. Instead, geography serves to give the game the synthesized aesthetic that every facet of the game is trying to convey. And it comes off in a way that wouldn't be off putting to a first timer of the series while still remaining interesting enough for series vets to pick up on the references.

5. I think some stuff could be explained better (like what exactly is Z, how did he first appear, how did people react to them, More details on Mobius). Some things can be inferred, for example, Origin is clearly using the core crystal system from Xenoblade 2. In the grand scheme of things we don't need to know how it was built and knowing that info wouldn't affect the story they were trying to tell. Hell, the name Aionios is clearly named after Aion and Bionis, the super computer from Xeno 2 and well, earth from Xeno 1. But overall, the main story of the game felt definitive and conclusive. We may not know exactly where Z came from, but we understand his motivation as an antagonist. We understand N's grief and trauma and why he decided to become Mobius, and personally, I love how Noah doesn't condemn him and acknowledges he was simply "unlucky." He was a victim of a series of bad circumstances out of his control and Noah just so happens to be in the era where things go perfectly right. There is no predetermined fight or divine intervention. This fits in perfectly with games overall theme of seizing the present and "the now." The game highlights that there are two ways to do this, the unhealthy, anxiety driven mobious way, and the healthy, optimistic and empathetic Noah way.

6. On that note Xenoblade 1 was about changing your future, Xenoblade 2 was about overcoming the mistakes of the past, and Xenoblade 3 is about living life to the fullest in the present. Again, the blended middle ground of the prior themes of the series.

 

[BassForever]

I don't think most people have a problem with a lack of connections to 2.

The existing connections just don't really make a lot of sense, and are dissatisfying to the point that I personally would rather have had them not connect it at all.

The people from both worlds built one half of a God machine that's capable of feats that not even Klaus could do over millions of years with direct access to the Conduit

The concept of fear itself manifests, usurps the God machine, and uses it to prevent annihilation.

Just doesn't feel like a good, satisfying, coherent, or smart story. And yes, the previous games did have good, satisfying, coherent and smart stories, which is why I was hoping for the same with this game

Two different worlds making half of a god machine makes about as much sense as Klaus using an infinite energy conduit to somehow make a separate world where people live on the backs of unrealistically large titans. When the back story of your universe starts with a infinite energy magical conduit, I feel like you're just nitpicking what think is "smart and coherent" for world building.

 

[BradenAndEggs]

I disagree with so many of the takes here, that quoting and replying to all of them would take too much time. So i'll just give my basic thoughts.

1. Absolutely loved the game. I went in completely spoiler free and only saw the reveal trailer. I was probably one of the few people hoping the game wouldn't have too much fan service. For the longest time I was worried this was going to be some Secret Wars style "epic crossover" and the story would suffer from having to please everyone in the fanbase. Thankfully the game is not this, and the original story of the main cast was excellent. There is so much character development and it was special watching the characters grow up and overcome their trauma and grief. Parts of the story hit hard for me because I've found myself thinking how scared I am of the future or how I wish I could freeze time and live in one specific moment of my life before experiencing some traumatic event that effected me personally. It's so refreshing to see Takahashi turn that legitimate anxiety into the premise of an entire game. I am REALLY HAPPY that the focus of this story is on Noah, Mio and their friends. It makes the ending heart wrenching to endure because you feel so deeply for the characters. Legit the first time I've ever cried in any of these games. It's refreshing to see an ending to a JRPG that is just bittersweet. I felt that Pyra/Mythra coming back in the last game was huge cop out and delegitimized their sacrificial moment. It's nice to see Monolith Soft go "no, things won't end perfectly this time and that's ok."

2. On that note Takahashi is still a master of incorporating religious subtext into his games. Noah is the main protagonist. Origin is basically the Ark he needs to win control over in order to move on into the future. Ouroboros forms are literally male and female creatures coming together to save humanity and preserve the future. Also, it is telling that in a world where everyone has short lifespans and are in constant war with each other, their one goal in life is to reach their "homecoming" to become one with the religious (and later revealed to be false) idol that governs their lives.

3. Adding on to this. I think they did enough with the ten year life cycle. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I really don't know how to put into words just how cruel and evil the ten year life cycle is. I know that Takahashi reads a lot of psychology texts so I think this helped characterize the ten year system. The characters in this world live from the ages of 10-20. Long enough for them to experience life and for it to "feel" like it's a long time, but not long enough to comprehend just how little that time is. There is plenty of research that shows younger people perceive time "longer" and how they learn and interact with the world. Ages 10-20 are formative years where you live long enough to accept and indulge in wreckless behavior, but you don't quite get to the age where you start to care deeply about the future. You perhaps maybe fall in love for the first time, etc. The game goes far out of its way to establish the inherit cruelty of the ten year cycle and how absolutely messed up it is.

4. I think that the very loose connections to the prior games are necessary. One the main themes of this game is synthesis and coming together in order to fight for the greater good. Every single aspect of this game needs to draw from the prior two games in order to make sense in the now (pun intended). The battle system is quite literally synthesizing the combat from the prior two games, down to the UI symbols used for arts and their charging mechanics. And of course, the strongest combat form is literally two beings that are representative of the prior games coming together to empower themselves. It makes complete sense that the land itself, the actual geographic locations we explore, are also a synthesis of locations from the prior games. In fact, many of the areas in this game are hybrids of two prior Xeno areas put together. You have the Urayan tunnels are blended Tephra cave. The sea area is literally Leftheria and Eryth Sea put together. I don't know why people are complaining about the "geography" not "doing more." To me, the actual world of the game isn't as important as the story of the main cast. Instead, geography serves to give the game the synthesized aesthetic that every facet of the game is trying to convey. And it comes off in a way that wouldn't be off putting to a first timer of the series while still remaining interesting enough for series vets to pick up on the references.

5. I think some stuff could be explained better (like what exactly is Z, how did he first appear, how did people react to them, More details on Mobius). Some things can be inferred, for example, Origin is clearly using the core crystal system from Xenoblade 2. In the grand scheme of things we don't need to know how it was built and knowing that info wouldn't affect the story they were trying to tell. Hell, the name Aionios is clearly named after Aion and Bionis, the super computer from Xeno 2 and well, earth from Xeno 1. But overall, the main story of the game felt definitive and conclusive. We may not know exactly where Z came from, but we understand his motivation as an antagonist. We understand N's grief and trauma and why he decided to become Mobius, and personally, I love how Noah doesn't condemn him and acknowledges he was simply "unlucky." He was a victim of a series of bad circumstances out of his control and Noah just so happens to be in the era where things go perfectly right. There is no predetermined fight or divine intervention. This fits in perfectly with games overall theme of seizing the present and "the now." The game highlights that there are two ways to do this, the unhealthy, anxiety driven mobious way, and the healthy, optimistic and empathetic Noah way.

6. On that note Xenoblade 1 was about changing your future, Xenoblade 2 was about overcoming the mistakes of the past, and Xenoblade 3 is about living life to the fullest in the present. Again, the blended middle ground of the prior themes of the series.

I’m pretty sure Z is a direct result of the souls stored in Origin. Kind of a “glitch.” Noah has a line in the final fight where he says “is this Z’s true form… or Origin’s?”

 

[Deleted member 2]

Two different worlds making half of a god machine makes about as much sense as Klaus using an infinite energy conduit to somehow make a separate world where people live on the backs of unrealistically large titans. When the back story of your universe starts with a infinite energy magical conduit, I feel like you're just nitpicking what think is "smart and coherent" for world building.

No, this is just flat wrong. The entire premise is based around the fact that humans were messing with a power from dimensions beyond our control, and playing god. The result was a massive annihilation of earth and the monkey paw of a "new universe" that didn't turn out the way the scientist expected. There's nothing "nonsensical" about it.

This type of premise is a tried and true story that's been told in the sci-fi genre forever. You're basically saying 2001: A Space Odyssey doesn't make sense because it involves a monolith that acts as a gateway to higher dimensions, and that's just too unrealistic.

You're falling into the same trap of confusing a "fantasy element" with "nonsense". Just because something doesn't exist in real life doesn't mean it's absolved of having to make sense at all.

Like I said in my previous comment, the only challenge I ever seem to get on my criticism of 3's story is "well, 1 and 2 were just as bad!" which is frankly bullshit.

Edit: what annoys me about this type of response (of which you're not the first to give me) is it's the same mindset of people who respond to criticism of the Star Wars movies with "it's just a kids movie about space wizards!" which is disingenuous and limits discussion.

 

[Toad King]

I’m pretty sure Z is a direct result of the souls stored in Origin. Kind of a “glitch.” Noah has a line in the final fight where he says “is this Z’s true form… or Origin’s?”

It's outright said that Z is the physical manifestation of all of Origin's souls' desires to to avoid the merger and destruction of the two universes, due to fear that Origin will fail to reboot the universes afterwards.

 

[TurtleRock]

I’m pretty sure Z is a direct result of the souls stored in Origin. Kind of a “glitch.” Noah has a line in the final fight where he says “is this Z’s true form… or Origin’s?”

Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, I sorta got the sense that Origin was some kind of bug or glitch that manifested when Origin tried to reboot the two worlds. I’m glad that it’s sorta confirmed in that final battle.

Ultimately though, Z’s true “origin” matters little for the plot since Noah and his friends have made up their minds about freeing the world.

No, this is just flat wrong. The entire premise is based around the fact that humans were messing with a power from dimensions beyond our control, and playing god. The result was a massive annihilation of earth and the monkey paw of a "new universe" that didn't turn out the way the scientist expected. There's nothing "nonsensical" about it.

This type of premise is a tried and true story that's been told in the sci-fi genre forever. You're basically saying 2001: A Space Odyssey doesn't make sense because it involves a monolith that acts as a gateway to higher dimensions, and that's just too unrealistic.

You're falling into the same trap of confusing a "fantasy element" with "nonsense". Just because something doesn't exist in real life doesn't mean it's absolved of having to make sense at all.

Like I said in my previous comment, the only challenge I ever seem to get on my criticism of 3's story is "well, 1 and 2 were just as bad!" which is frankly bullshit.

Edit: what annoys me about this type of response (of which you're not the first to give me) is it's the same mindset of people who respond to criticism of the Star Wars movies with "it's just a kids movie about space wizards!" which is disingenuous and limits discussion.

I completely buy Origin as something that could be constructed using the technology from the worlds of Xeno 1 and 2. The only glaring issue would be finding an energy source that could rival the conduit, and I think the game gives you an answer to that question. The energy that powers up origin is the energy created at the moment of both universes colliding. The energy from the universes coming together could be a strong enough catalyst that rivals even the conduit. So at the time of “impact” both halves fuse together and use the immense amount of energy generated to power up origin and “reboots” the universes. In game, the Black fog is basically a manifestation of this energy and we know how even a small amount of it is incredibly powerful.

 

[EtherPenguin]

I keep thinking it's likely Origin was intentionally sabotaged to allow something like Z to happen. The original Moebius manifest as three personalities (X, Y, Z) and we see three mysterious figures in black cloaks overseeing Origin's construction alongside Nia and Tora.

Also with the Conduit/Origin comparisons and with Z basically being a ghost in the machine, I wonder if we're meant to draw parallels between the trinity processor housing three AI personalities and Origin manifesting X, Y, and Z.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I completely buy Origin as something that could be constructed using the technology from the worlds of Xeno 1 and 2.

I simply don't, so there's not much more discussion to have about that.

The only glaring issue would be finding an energy source that could rival the conduit, and I think the game gives you an answer to that question. The energy that powers up origin is the energy created at the moment of both universes colliding.

Where does the power to stop time come from?