LTTP Paper Mario The Origami King is very very good actually

[kpup]

I just started this last week (wanted to try it for the winter challenge but didn't make it in time).

I do like the battle system, especially for boss fights, but I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the random encounters, or made it in a way that was balanced so you'd only run into predefined combat scenarios. My experience is definitely colored by me going through and 100%ing as much as I can along the way, so I'm running into every fight the game has, often more than once for the same spawn, and it gets extremely repetitive. The controls for it aren't great and the combat animations take too long, which combined with the same enemy setups, just leads to frustration where I ultimately feel like I could be spending my time better doing something else. Even just removing the respawning enemies would probably go a long way in encouraging me to play more.

Which is a shame since I'm enjoying everything else about the game, and I like the puzzles, but the battle system novelty wore off quick.

 

[xghost777]

I loved the Origami King. It’s the fourth distinct approach to Paper Mario and is excellent on its own terms. The adventure was great with sharp writing that was both funny and had tons of heart, the Ninja Universal Studios and the Wind Waker levels were awesome, Bobby was the best (not to mention the other partner characters like Bowser Jr which started a redemption arc for the character), the music is delightful (including musical numbers!), and both flavors of the battle system were good fun. I wish there were a few more unique designs is my only major complaint. The person who created the Origami King just being a greed toad is lame. At least give him an outfit. Edit: I was corrected he at least has an outfit. He’s still no Captain T. Ode.

 

[Skipper93653]

I loved this game when I got it at launch... I agree with the OP on everything. It definitely feels like Paper Mario is shifting towards classic Zelda (like someone else said earlier) and I'm all for it.

 

[Magic-Man]

Agree with OP. People would look at this game a lot more fondly if they realized we're never gonna get another 64/TTYD type Paper Mario game. This is the future and I'm fine with that.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I like it almost as much as the original which is still my favourite. I don't agree with some people that they should have ditched the regular battles in favour of the 2D-Zelda like action combat but I think it needed some more tweaks. The lack of levels and exp was kind of inconsequential, it's not much of a factor in PM64 or TTYD either. What hurts is the lack of character customization that you got through the badges. I hope they bring them back in some form for the next one.

 

[King_Dodongo]

Second chapter/streamer is definitely my favorite in ANY paper Mario game.

 

[Kano]

I loved the Origami King. It’s the fourth distinct approach to Paper Mario and is excellent on its own terms. The adventure was great with sharp writing that was both funny and had tons of heart, the Ninja Universal Studios and the Wind Waker levels were awesome, Bobby was the best (not to mention the other partner characters like Bowser Jr which started a redemption arc for the character), the music is delightful (including musical numbers!), and both flavors of the battle system were good fun. I wish there were a few more unique designs is my only major complaint. The person who created the Origami King just being a greed toad is lame. At least give him an outfit.

But he has an outfit

Spoiler

 

[xghost777]

But he has an outfit

Spoiler

Ok I’m glad he at least has that. It was unmemorable enough that I forgot about it for such a major character.

 

[Rhisiart]

I really loved this game. The battle system was unique and pretty fun although I think it got a bit old after a little while, but the worlds were gorgeous and I loved the level designs and the puzzles. Razor sharp writing, engaging story and characters, maybe one of the best Nintendo osts ever? Very overlooked but very good game and I'd love to see the team build off of this in the future.

 

[Jersh]

From the completely dumbass and arbitrary restrictions Nintendo has decided to single this series out on

It's not singled out. As recently as Mario Party Superstars, Toads with unique features were scrapped in favor of generic designs.

Outfits tend to be okay, AFAIK. The consistency they seem to have to stick to is with biological features (hair, proportions, etc.).

 

[Hocot8]

The game was fun. The writing was funny. Those vellumental boss battles though took me out. They are so uninspiring and not fun after the 1st one. I never finished it.

 

[Magic-Man]

The game was fun. The writing was funny. Those vellumental boss battles though took me out. They are so uninspiring and not fun after the 1st one. I never finished it.

Huh, normally people love those fights. Why did you dislike them?

 

[SammyJ9]

I have a pretty love-hate relationship with this game. The soundtrack is great, the visuals are pretty good (I would prefer they stick to more paper designs, though, I'm not as big of a fan of the 3D paper mache/etc. stuff), and there are some good puzzles in the dungeons.

But I really dislike the combat (bosses are better), the characters did almost nothing for me at all, and the plot was similarly uninteresting. Maybe I've just gotten old and cynical but basically nothing in this game really spoke to me on any level (not even THAT scene).

And not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I hated the lack of extrinsic/mechanical rewards. There are a ton of things to find in this game, but they don't actually DO anything. Filling the holes, finding the toads, getting all the collectables, etc., felt completely pointless without some kind of useful incentive.

 

[Hocot8]

Huh, normally people love those fights. Why did you dislike them?

Iirc one of them seemed to last longer than it should've. I don't know if it was because of one of the attacks or not. I wanna say it was the Ice Vellumental that soured my mood on the game. Admittedly it may have been because I was growing tired of the boss battles. The Hole Punch boss wasn't enjoyable at all and I think that was right before the Ice Vellumental. So it was cumulative effect.

I wish I could remember exactly what made me just put down my remote, say I'll come back to the game, but when I was going to go back to play the next day I just wasn't motivated to do so.

 

[Supreme Overlord]

This take actually falls fairly well in line with the typical consensus I've seen (when people are actually discussing the game). Of course, I can't speak to my own experience or opinions at the moment, having yet to play this (a situation which I look forward to rectifying. Soon. Ish. I hope).

The acclaim for its visuals, appreciation of the writing -- save, perhaps, for an apparent overreliance on paper puns --, the idea of the boss battles being good.

Really the only thing I've seen most people agree is bad is the standard battle system, and that mostly because it ends up repeating and and becoming stale. I tend to assume I'll go through those until they stay being all repeats and then save time by skipping them after. Who knows?

I wonder how much that might have been ameliorated if the different chapters/worlds/zones/biomes each had a slight quirk or gimmick for the standard combat, making the different areas distinct.

Everything else seems to be an agreement that Origami King is actually, otherwise, pretty good, but maybe isn't what individuals want in Paper Mario. I can't say that's wrong. Even if it sounds like I'll appreciate this game, I'm sure a part of me will be lamenting that we don't also still get these occasionally patterned after the original in some form.

Just as the loss of classic 3D Zelda style would be tragic if we go that route ...
Which I thought I'd said somewhere that Paper Mario could actually be interesting to see adapt that style for at least a game, with the partners helping where items would but also being characters, -- and actually has a really good tone for it -- but I can't seem to find that.
So I'll let Phendrift say it for me:

It’s great on its own terms, but I can’t separate it from the series and it still has lots of my disappointments with “new” paper Mario. Though it’s by far the best of the new ones.

Definitely agree boss fights were a highlight. Also loved the overworld as opposed to world map. If they keep going the direction TOK went, we could have a pretty nice replacement for classic Zelda in a post-BotW world.

Thanks, Phendrift!
I do know that I've commented on the possibility of Captain Toad doing something similar, given its own Zelda inspirations. There are a few series that could dip into that, really.

And I'm sure I'll lament the lack of visual variety within the series' species and such.

It's not singled out. As recently as Mario Party Superstars, Toads with unique features were scrapped in favor of generic designs.

This, after all, is a tragedy.

 

[kpup]

I think part of the combat feeling dull for me was also because it never really has a true sense of difficulty. I'm not saying that in the way of I can perfectly solve every puzzle, but rather any sense of difficulty or struggle the game attempts to throw at you feels artificially formed.

There's a literal constant ticking timer, but olivia constantly encourages you to ignore that by using the toads and hints. The boss battles are the highlights, but at times they felt like they could be played without your input. Often times after taking a few hits, I'd be ready to use an item to heal, only to find that when my turn came, I would automatically have a path set up for me that included several hearts. To me, it felt like the game was invisibly helping me any time Mario started struggling, which deflated my enthusiasm and sense of agency.

The latter might just be in my head or natural game rng, but it feels like it's happened in every boss fight so far. Along with the repetitive nature, it's this stripping of my agency that notably adds to my dislike for the combat.

I do appreciate how accessible these features make the game, but I either would've liked more curve balls somewhere, or just a pure story mode for me to go through. Also only over halfway through the game, so maybe this is premature and there are curve balls to come.

 

[SammyJ9]

So the only way to design a good game is to give you extrinsic rewards? Is that why you engage with battles in RPGs, just to level up? Or is it to actually engage with a game's mechanics and have fun? Now whether or not the battle system is fun, that's a fair debate, but I just hate hearing this same tired argument brought up every time the newer Paper Mario games are discussed.

Yeah the games aren't really RPGs anymore, I agree. That doesn't make them worse. RPG is not an inherently better or worse genre than puzzle adventure or whatever you want to call it now. Frankly I myself prefer the latter. But did you really play the old games just for the RPG mechanics? Personally I enjoyed them most for the creative locales and scenarios, which Origami King still has. As long as those are still there, it's got a paper aesthetic and the word Mario is in the title, it's still a Paper Mario game.

I don't want to derail the thread too much, and I do definitely agree that the locations and scenarios and such are a big draw and can be fun, but I honestly kind of do think that (at least to me personally) extrinsic rewards are absolutely king. I tend to be very goal-driven and checklist-y when I play games, at least when it comes to obtaining things that help me level up/power up/get new abilities/etc. It's very rare that I will do something in a game just for fun if it has no tangible reward, that's just how my brain is wired. I love interacting with mechanical systems in games, but it's always to see how I can "break" the system in my favor or help me do things better (do more damage, etc.), or increase my efficiency.

So, yeah, to me the lack of an RPG system in the game and, as a result, most especially the lack of much of any real sense of progression, is what really turned me off. I am absolutely someone who gets a lot of joy just in simply "making the numbers go up"

 

[Cyrus]

Agree with OP on everything. Origami King was my first Paper Mario game, and it was a delight from start to finish. I’ll admit the battle system is needlessly complicated, but it’s also very forgiving; more often than not I’d completely screw up a puzzle, especially during bosses, but I usually made it out alive. Plus, everything outside the combat is so damn good it more than makes up for its flaws. The world is beautifully crafted and a joy to explore. The dialogue is some of the best in any game I’ve ever played. Seeing all these familiar Mario characters in a new context was an absolute delight. And the music was just banger after banger. (Where’s that official soundtrack release Nintendo?) This game made me a fan of Paper Mario, and I am very much looking forward to seeing where the series goes next.

 

[mnk]

some of y'all really hate puzzles huh

I hated the time limit more than the puzzles themselves. Even though you can throw coins to extend it, if it was a puzzle that really stumped me, that ticking timer still broke my concentration a lot of the time.

 

[Pokemaniac]

The story and characters were very good though. The story especially was better than any game before.

It doesn't need to be a RPG to be good, that's just an aspect that can be replaced or different.

The game doesn't have to be an RPG to be good, no, but I feel like this remains a largely theoretical argument so long as they keep trying to cram in half-baked turn-based battle systems.

Like, I'd have a lot less problem with the newer entries if Super Paper Mario was the one they chose to iterate on rather than Sticker Star.

some of y'all really hate puzzles huh

If it was just puzzles, that would be one thing, but they're attached to a set of largely vestigial combat mechanics that exist just enough to waste your time sometimes, but not enough to actually be interesting in the slightest.

They're not even particularly great puzzles, and the game kind of encourages you to just skip them with money if you don't see the solution right away.

Huh, normally people love those fights. Why did you dislike them?

Not the person you asked, but personally I found the bosses very hit or miss. Several of the gimmicks didn't really land for me, especially the ones where the bosses would heal huge chunks of their HP if you didn't approach them exactly correctly.

 

[sanstea]

I agree.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Can't agree. Battle system is still fundamentally flawed: get coins to use on consumables to use on battles to get coins. There's no proper experience system to justify battling at all, you're better off just running away form every encounter.

That's not getting into the massive issues with character originality, story, the death of RPG mechanics, etc. If you fixed the flawed battle system it's probably a fine game, but it's not a Paper Mario game

Of course it's a Paper Mario game, even if you don't like the battle mechanics

If it's a story about Mario involving a unique cast of characters, it's a Paper Mario game

 

[Deleted member 2]

some of y'all really hate puzzles huh

You know I really don't like this kinds of dismissive comments aimed at a general "other side" but it really feels like the biggest difference between people who like the game and people who don't like the game really comes down whether they enjoy solving the battle puzzles or not

 

[Raccoon]

You know I really don't like this kinds of dismissive comments aimed at a general "other side" but it really feels like the biggest difference between people who like the game and people who don't like the game really comes down whether they enjoy solving the battle puzzles or not

yeah it's not really dismissive so much as "understandable have a nice day"

it's like someone who hates picross playing that picross ace attorney game. it doesn't matter how good the ace attorney stuff is if you hate the puzzles

puzzle non-enjoyers, I sincerely pity you and hope that you just listen to the soundtrack on youtube instead, it's really the best part of the game anyway

 

[NabiscoFelt]

I have a pretty love-hate relationship with this game. The soundtrack is great, the visuals are pretty good (I would prefer they stick to more paper designs, though, I'm not as big of a fan of the 3D paper mache/etc. stuff), and there are some good puzzles in the dungeons.

But I really dislike the combat (bosses are better), the characters did almost nothing for me at all, and the plot was similarly uninteresting. Maybe I've just gotten old and cynical but basically nothing in this game really spoke to me on any level (not even THAT scene).

And not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I hated the lack of extrinsic/mechanical rewards. There are a ton of things to find in this game, but they don't actually DO anything. Filling the holes, finding the toads, getting all the collectables, etc., felt completely pointless without some kind of useful incentive.

This is basically the problem I was running into when playing the game (didn't get far, this thread is making me want to try again), which confused me honestly because while I do like me some crunchy numbers games I don't really consider myself that extrinsically motivated. Like, I love games like BoTW and Mario Odyssey that pretty heavily deemphasize extrinsic rewards

So I think what the real problem might be is that, on a mechanical level, isn't really extrinsically or intrinsically satisfying. You don't get anything from combat or exploration and they aren't really that fun in themselves mechanically (imo, of course). Like, nothing felt that fun to do on a moment to moment basis, and I also wasn't getting anything significant from doing anything. You can get away with not being extrinsically satisfying or intrinsically satisfying, but for me at least it's hard to get away with not being both.

Edit: Yeah, maybe it's because the puzzles weren't doing it for me. I think they're just too frequent and too similar to really mean anything for me.

 

[Supreme Overlord]

You know I really don't like this kinds of dismissive comments aimed at a general "other side" but it really feels like the biggest difference between people who like the game and people who don't like the game really comes down whether they enjoy solving the battle puzzles or not

Again, can't speak from experience here, but I always got the impression people got tired of it as the puzzles repeated, at which point it becomes less an experience of solving puzzles and more simply busywork (and for some people, the setup of the puzzles could feel like busywork to start with).

It's sounded like for a lot of people the basic concept of battle puzzles might be okay, but the implementation was off and wore out its welcome.

Could be wrong.

yeah it's not really dismissive so much as "understandable have a nice day"

it's like someone who hates picross playing that picross ace attorney game. it doesn't matter how good the ace attorney stuff is if you hate the puzzles

puzzle non-enjoyers, I sincerely pity you and hope that you just listen to the soundtrack on youtube instead, it's really the best part of the game anyway

But then if it is a thing of people just hating puzzles -- which it often seems to be more complicated than that -- the issue would then be that a series they really liked, perhaps even their favorite series, went in a direction they can't follow, that they want to like it like they always did but just can't. A bit different than someone deciding to just pick up a puzzle game even though they can't stand puzzles. It's their favorite series; it just happens to have become something they can't enjoy.

And that seems something worth the pity, not for them necessarily, but the situation.

 

[Raccoon]

But then if it is a thing of people just hating puzzles -- which it often seems to be more complicated than that -- the issue would then be that a series they really liked, perhaps even their favorite series, went in a direction they can't follow, that they want to like it like they always did but just can't. A bit different than someone deciding to just pick up a puzzle game even though they can't stand puzzles. It's their favorite series; it just happens to have become something they can't enjoy.

And that seems something worth the pity, not for them necessarily, but the situation.

well I don't pity situations because situations don't have feelings

and yes the comparison isn't perfect. it reminds me somewhat of my own qualms with the direction of animal crossing, which has fundamentally changed from its earliest loops and spirit

 

[Ryunosuke Naruhodo]

It's a weird one because the 2 biggest criticisms of this series for a while now (the bland/generic NPC designs and the battle system being inferior to what the series started with) apply to this game just as much as the last couple. Most of everything else is good/great/excellent, it is just let down a bit by those 2 important things, and the fact that this series has had those criticisms since SPM means the developers know (surely) that this is the case and are just content to stay the course. Which is fine of course if they want to make games where NPCs are mostly forgettable and where you battle using stickers/cards/rotating circles on the ground. But going back to basics for TOK would've got it a lot more praise and excitement and it's just weird to me how this series is at war with its most passionate fans (look at Chuggaaconroy's reaction to it after eulogising over the first 3 games for example).

So yeah I think all things considered it's an 8/10 kinda deal that was very fun(ny) but something's got to give at this point when the next PM game is inevitably announced, just throw them a bone and at least go back to having interesting NPC designs again...

 

[Skipper93653]

(look at Chuggaaconroy's reaction to it after eulogising over the first 3 games for example)

Chuggaaconroy really fell off; every time I hear him speak, 99% chance it is complaining about Paper Mario... like geez, it's almost been 10 years since Sticker Star and it still taunts and haunts you to this day.

 

[WestEgg]

(look at Chuggaaconroy's reaction to it after eulogising over the first 3 games for example).

There’s an issue that some youtubers and Twitter users had built up such an identity around “New Paper Mario Games Bad” that the game could have been fantastic, perhaps better than TTYD, and they would still pick at every single perceived flaw (or create them wholesale) and insist it’s bad to maintain that branding and protect the associated ego. I literally had to stop watching Chuggaaconroy’s Xenoblade 2 let’s play, something that was extremely well produced and a highlight of one of my all time favorite games, because he insisted on shoehorning his griefs against Paper Mario where ever possible and behaved like a child with his fingers in his ears when anyone tried to engage him on it.

 

[merp]

I'm super late to this train, I just beat Paper Mario Origami King about a year and a half after it released (too much else to play and I kinda forgot I owned it). So I powered through it over the past two weeks while waiting for Legends Arceus and Elden Ring to release, fully aware of its reputation and after having hated the past two entries (I actually only played Sticker Star but from what I've seen CS is mostly the same).

But Origami King was very very good? Like, it has none of the issues Sticker Star had and it has tremendous qualities instead. I agree that the regular enemies battle system got repetitive by the time you hit third chapter and never evolves too much, but everything else in the game was ACED.

• The story is really pleasing to follow. Olivia is a believable character who goes through decent development and her dynamic with Mario and Bobby was pretty endearing. The story had several interesting beats and twists that probably easily made it the best story in the series.
• This is coupled with extremely good writing. The game never ceases to be funny, and even when a joke falls flat, they follow up so quickly with something else that it feels never forced. Every character is unique and filled with personality, both amongst enemies and allies.
• Visually the game is a treat, one of the prettiest games on Switch for sure. It is pretty varied in its environments despite having quite big areas.
• Every bossfight was really fun, they all have a unique twist on the Chu Chu Rocket-variation of the ring puzzle battle system. They're clearly the highlights of the game.
• Pacing-wise the game never let me off its hook. You've got five big chapters, each going through a different biome, you meet different people and partners and there's a different theme to each chapter. You go from a ninja theme park that got tons of stupid fun attractions, to a huge, obviously Wind Waker inspired sea to roam with your boat. Seriously, the Great Sea chapter was my favourite. This shit was incredible.
• Puzzles are fun! The game basically kept throwing at you puzzles and they were overall quite inspired, even though yes regular battles started to be a bit much in the second half (thanks god for the generous toads to bribe though).
• Absolutely banging soundtrack, one of the best in the Switch era. Listen to this bop:

Can't believe we let people give a bad reputation to this game when it was such a fun and great experience. Definitely a return to form to Paper Mario after two lackluster entries and a Wii game that was (imo) not in the same ballpark as the first two. Origami King definitely stands up to the earlier games (tho PM64 is still my fav).

I want one now.

Thanks.

 

[Kano]

I want one now.

Thanks.

The game is often discounted pretty cheap, it was like 20$ not long ago so you could look into that.

 

[Earthbounder]

It's a puzzling game to evaluate.

On one hand, the setting and chapters have the creative spark that made the first two Paper Mario games so great. I will argue they still leave a little to be desired in comparison to the classics, but they are good enough to deserve the Paper Mario name.

On the other, you have got dull character designs and a dumbfounding battle system that makes regular enemy encounters a nuisance, which are two factors that showcase Nintendo's ridiculous stubbornness when it comes to the franchise.

All in all, it's good, but it could have been so much better.

 

[Clix]

Loved the game. Battle system was really cool, but it really shined in boss battles. Random enemy encounters did get tiresome only because it did get tough and so random encounters could often drag too much because it really got hard to try to beat it properly!

 

[Kano]

It's a puzzling game to evaluate.

On one hand, the setting and chapters have the creative spark that made the first two Paper Mario games so great. I will argue they still leave a little to be desired in comparison to the classics, but they are good enough to deserve the Paper Mario name.

On the other, you have got dull character designs and a dumbfounding battle system that makes regular enemy encounters a nuisance, which are two factors that showcase Nintendo's ridiculous stubbornness when it comes to the franchise.

All in all, it's good, but it could have been so much better.

Once again, Nintendo does not dictate what IS does with the battle systems of the game. They make the game they want to do.

 

[Earthbounder]

Once again, Nintendo does not dictate what IS does with the battle systems of the game. They make the game they want to do.

Fair enough. I still sometimes wonder the degree of freedom IS has with some aspects of the game. But it is indeed more accurate to blame the battle system issues on IS than on Nintendo.

 

[Kano]

Fair enough. I still sometimes wonder the degree of freedom IS has with some aspects of the game. But it is indeed more accurate to blame the battle system issues on IS than on Nintendo.

They've said with TOK that they had full creative control of everything in the game and only have to check with Nintendo for the character design.

 

[Earthbounder]

They've said with TOK that they had full creative control of everything in the game and only have to check with Nintendo for the character design.

That's great they have so much freedom. Still, I wish Nintendo would go back to not being so strict when it comes to character design.

 

[Raccoon]

I'm gonna say something detrimental to discourse in this thread. I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself any longer. If you are easily enraged by opinions please do not open the below spoiler for kano's sake.

Spoiler

The Mario sanctity council or whatever did us all a fucking favor. All the beloved old Paper Mario characters? Those games are freakshows with lazy ass design. This guy has a fucking wheel taped to his back. I don't care if it's "unique," all of these characters look like shit.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I'm gonna say something detrimental to discourse in this thread. I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself any longer. If you are easily enraged by opinions please do not open the below spoiler for kano's sake.

Spoiler

The Mario sanctity council or whatever did us all a fucking favor. All the beloved old Paper Mario characters? Those games are freakshows with lazy ass design. This guy has a fucking wheel taped to his back. I don't care if it's "unique," all of these characters look like shit.

I know it's hard to tell because of the hat and the positioning, but isn't the idea that the wheel is attached to the pin slot that all bob-ombs have on their back due to their wind-up function? Makes sense to me. They also did it with that character in one of the other games (?) Who has butterfly wings on their back.

 

[Raccoon]

I know it's hard to tell because of the hat and the positioning, but isn't the idea that the wheel is attached to the pin slot that all bob-ombs have on their back due to their wind-up function? Makes sense to me. They also did it with that character in one of the other games (?) Who has butterfly wings on their back.

Spoiler

Sure, but in addition to being offset strangely (which I unfortunately must excuse due to it being a way of emphasizing detail in the flat medium), why does he have a ship's wheel there? What is that for? Who uses it? Maybe these questions are answered in the game(s), but it's still a lazy, unappealing, and unsubtle way of saying "look everybody a ship's captain!" when the hat would've sufficed.

 

[Phendrift]

I'm gonna say something detrimental to discourse in this thread. I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself any longer. If you are easily enraged by opinions please do not open the below spoiler for kano's sake.

Spoiler

The Mario sanctity council or whatever did us all a fucking favor. All the beloved old Paper Mario characters? Those games are freakshows with lazy ass design. This guy has a fucking wheel taped to his back. I don't care if it's "unique," all of these characters look like shit.

I disagree but even then, I prefer unique character designs that are hit or miss over everyone looking the same/palette swaps tbh.

I wouldn’t say super paper Mario’s blocky look is my favorite but it’s way way better than generic toads everywhere

 

[Raccoon]

I disagree but even then, I prefer unique character designs that are hit or miss over everyone looking the same/palette swaps tbh.

I wouldn’t say super paper Mario’s blocky look is my favorite but it’s way way better than generic toads everywhere

I simply disagree

 

[Skipper93653]

Toads > Literally everything in Super Paper Mario.

 

[Supreme Overlord]

why does he have a ship's wheel there? What is that for? Who uses it? Maybe these questions are answered in the game(s), but it's still a lazy, unappealing, and unsubtle way of saying "look everybody a ship's captain!" when the hat would've sufficed.

I would assume the wheel is used in the same way as the pin possessed by most bob-ombs, as no actual function would be changed, just aesthetic design:

That would elicit all the same questions, since the function would be the same.

Beyond that, we can speculate about Bob-omb society and whether different cultural mores could lead to this piece being changed out, whether to denote rank or status or simply as a body modification (think gage earrings or other piercings, or tattoos), perhaps simply to be punk or make a statement.

It's a lot less nonsensical than you seem to indicate.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

Spoiler

Sure, but in addition to being offset strangely (which I unfortunately must excuse due to it being a way of emphasizing detail in the flat medium), why does he have a ship's wheel there? What is that for? Who uses it? Maybe these questions are answered in the game(s), but it's still a lazy, unappealing, and unsubtle way of saying "look everybody a ship's captain!" when the hat would've sufficed.

Yeah, I agree.

In addition, Mario is a lazy character design. Like, you think we'd know who he is just from his red shirt and blue overalls, but nooooo. This asshole has to wear a hat with the letter M on it. Same with his stupid brother.

It's a lazy, unappealing, and unsuble way of saying "look everybody, I'm Mario!" when the blue overalls and red shirt would have sufficed.

 

[Skipper93653]

It just struck me... the Paper Mario fandom is literally the Sonic fandom but for a Nintendo series instead.

 

[Raccoon]

Yeah, I agree.

In addition, Mario is a lazy character design. Like, you think we'd know who he is just from his red shirt and blue overalls, but nooooo. This asshole has to wear a hat with the letter M on it. Same with his stupid brother.

It's a lazy, unappealing, and unsuble way of saying "look everybody, I'm Mario!" when the blue overalls and red shirt would have sufficed.

well the difference is that mario looks good and this shit doesn't

when aesthetics fail we turn to communicative design to justify trash, and this seemingly has none

 

[Kano]

I'm gonna say something detrimental to discourse in this thread. I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself any longer. If you are easily enraged by opinions please do not open the below spoiler for kano's sake.

Spoiler

The Mario sanctity council or whatever did us all a fucking favor. All the beloved old Paper Mario characters? Those games are freakshows with lazy ass design. This guy has a fucking wheel taped to his back. I don't care if it's "unique," all of these characters look like shit.

ok but you picked the one really good character design tho

 

[Raccoon]

ok but you picked the one really good character design tho