Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: launch trailer, see threadmarks)

[Decoyman]

I suspect the main thing they did was just touch up all assets while only redrawing very specific assets (+ in some cases altering a few animations overall to match some sprites with the modern games where they could, like Mario's shocked sprite).

For reference, most of Mario's sprites in TTYD were constructed using these assets. You can tell looking at the above image that Mario still uses the same torso from TTYD because unlike Origami King the buttons on his overalls aren't aligned perfectly horizontally (a specific quirk of TTYD's sprite interestingly), and they also use the exact same hand from TTYD. At best they've only been touched up a bit to suit the higher res, or they're being influenced by the new lighting engine. The Mario head is probably the only thing that was adjusted more specifically, more than likely to keep it consistent with the modern games because Paper Mario's actually gone through subtle expressive changes over the various entries (SPM has a much more tilted brim on his hat for example). The modern games have a lot of sprites where Mario faces the front, so I suspect they wanted this to be consistent with those games.

 

[TreIII]

Nintendo regularly advertise ahead of Directs. They've frequently released trailers in January, for example, for whatever their March release will be. 30 seconds in this instance isn't all that much.

I wouldn't say a Direct is guaranteed, but this definitely doesn't rule it out.

This, plus at this point, it's looking to be repeating the same pattern as what they did for SMRPG, so far.

• Featured in a Direct
• Various updates on Twitter/etc. after that initial appearance <- We are here
• Gets featured in one more Direct before release
• Overview trailer on launch

 

[Tamantayoshi]

Keen-eyed viewers have spotted more Origami King sprites. This makes me believe more and more than they redid everything.

Wow that white outline really looks terrible when comparing what he looks like in TTYD HD.

 

[Concernt]

Wow that white outline really looks terrible when comparing what he looks like in TTYD HD.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. In Origami King he sort of looks and feels like a living animation cell that morphs and reacts to things. In TTYDHD he looks like a cardboard puppet, and it makes me a little uncomfortable.

 

[kirbyfan407]

Is this how the original game opens? Something about the note seems suspicious to me, but maybe I'm just being paranoid and too trained by Luigi's Mansion and Princess Peach Showtime.

I got red when I was six and blissfully unaware of the timer, assumed it was random when he didn't come out green like on the box. Red was also my favorite color at the time, so I was pretty happy.

The details are here for anyone curious. The time window for green is twice as long as the other colors, and black and white are very short. I've tended to game it for orange on replays when I was older.

Oh, these time windows are more generous than I expected. I knew NOTHING about how Yoshi works in this game, but I was thinking it was something like "press A while the egg is shaking during frames 13-19 to get Green Yoshi, frames 20-22 for Red Yoshi, etc." This instead seems super chill and easy. If green was on the original box, I think I'd want green, so I'll just rush a bit until I get to the trigger point. (No idea if 6 minutes is really fast and I should instead aim for 20-26 minutes.)

 

[Cheetah6442]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. In Origami King he sort of looks and feels like a living animation cell that morphs and reacts to things. In TTYDHD he looks like a cardboard puppet, and it makes me a little uncomfortable.

That's probably because of the puppet style animation that this game is using, just like the original TTYD and Super uses instead of the stop motion animation that the modern trilogy uses.

 

[Stilt Village]

Is this how the original game opens? Something about the note seems suspicious to me, but maybe I'm just being paranoid and too trained by Luigi's Mansion and Princess Peach Showtime.

The letter is legit and is how the game opens, but you aren't exactly wrong to say it's suspicious...

 

[ziggyrivers]

The letter is legit and is how the game opens, but you aren't exactly wrong to say it's suspicious...

I'm lost, what's suspicious about it? It was the game's intro before the title screen

 

[Truno]

I'm lost, what's suspicious about it? It was the game's intro before the title screen

Don't think it's suspicious, but it's not how it looks in-game at all. It's a unique mock-up they made to advertise the game

 

[Moth]

I'm lost, what's suspicious about it? It was the game's intro before the title screen

Spoiler: SPOILER IMPLICATION

He's talking about the nature of the letter in-universe and
why it was sent. I won't say anymore for the sake of the one to three people who potentially might not have played with

 

[switchum]

This is my most hyped game of the year by a mile. I can't wait

 

[Mer.Saloon]

The modern games aren't really any different in terms of constructing a lot of animations from limb separation. Every Paper Mario since TTYD builds a huge chunk of its sprites off of manipulated separated body parts for consistency's sake. The only difference between TTYD and the modern games is that the former animates them in-engine in a way that was highly common of Flash style animations of that era, whereas the modern games animate and construct these in more traditional frame-by-frame sprite format where everything is its own unique frame. The advantage of the former is that you get "smoother" animation, but it comes at the cost of most unique sprites only being achieved by manipulating the body part assets fed into the engine, and that's where I disagree on it giving them "more flexibility"; one advantage the modern games have is that they can modify graphics and sprite sets more freely depending on the situation just by drawing a new graphic altogether that might only have one use case, and that's how we get things like Color Splash's massive sprite sheet which is chock-full of the kind of sprites that TTYD was lacking in even in comparison to its predecessor. In this kind of situation it's way easier to construct a unique sprite when that work can all be done on the art end of things.

I don't think this is quite the "best of both worlds" yet. The modern games afford a variety of unique context-sensitive sprites similarly to how we'd see from the N64 game, and while they don't animate as much, it brings a very reactive and expressive look for Mario. The TTYD remake has added some zest here and there, but looking at things like Mario's jump in battle I still don't think it's quite there for me. The modern games still have an edge over TTYD in certain visual aspects.

It's more like, the distinct parts are now highlighted instead of a limitation of tech from the period thus allowing them to make embellishments more paper like? The original Paper Mario in TTYD was quite stiff and the game wasn't really trying to make you think he was several layers of paper, but the single sheet like in the original.

 

[Brofield]

Is this how the original game opens? Something about the note seems suspicious to me, but maybe I'm just being paranoid and too trained by Luigi's Mansion and Princess Peach Showtime.

Truthfully I just figured it's a throwback to the letter-writing tradition started in SM64

 

[Lucifer]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. In Origami King he sort of looks and feels like a living animation cell that morphs and reacts to things. In TTYDHD he looks like a cardboard puppet, and it makes me a little uncomfortable.

He looks like a sticker that reacts in low fps in Origami King. If anything he looks a lot more lively in TTYD.

 

[Rocketjay]

Keen-eyed viewers have spotted more Origami King sprites. This makes me believe more and more than they redid everything.

I think the nose should've been its own piece so that it pops out more.

 

[Concernt]

He looks like a sticker that reacts in low fps in Origami King. If anything he looks a lot more lively in TTYD.

Mould is alive too, I don't like looking at it!

 

[Brofield]

Keen-eyed viewers have spotted more Origami King sprites. This makes me believe more and more than they redid everything.

I keep seeing this image over and over, and maybe I'm a little slow on the take but what makes Origami King nose different from other iterations of Paper Mario's nose? Just the fact that it was seen dead on for the first time?

 

[AK World]

I keep seeing this image over and over, and maybe I'm a little slow on the take but what makes Origami King nose different from other iterations of Paper Mario's nose? Just the fact that it was seen dead on for the first time?

They made his nose wider.

 

[Brofield]

They made his nose wider.

...oh shit, you right

And now all of a sudden that realization is making me uncomfortable looking at his wider nose

 

[Leviraps]

Keen-eyed viewers have spotted more Origami King sprites. This makes me believe more and more than they redid everything.

It’s nosver

 

[Leviraps]

That added theramin section to the title screen music rules.

Also in the scene where the X Nauts are dogpiling Mario the framerate seems a little bad, but then it shows the Petal Meadows scene that's been in every trailer also with bad framerate so hopefully that's just a video thing being weird. If it's gonna be half the framerate of the original, I would hope it's at least a solid 30fps.

Noticed that too. I replayed the game on my laptop a while back and the xnauts scene dropped frames like crazy when emulating at 1080p.

 

[kirbyfan407]

I'm lost, what's suspicious about it? It was the game's intro before the title screen

Spoiler: SPOILER IMPLICATION

He's talking about the nature of the letter in-universe and
why it was sent. I won't say anymore for the sake of the one to three people who potentially might not have played with

Yes, Moth understood my intent. I wasn't saying there was anything suspicious about the social media post. I meant that the letter read like the kind of letter that you THINK is being sent with good intentions by the person who signed it but is actually not. Like how the Luigi's Mansion series has Luigi being lured into a trap at the start (from what I remember), or how Princess Peach Showtime begins with the advertisement for the theater. As for what I'd speculate is actually going on, it'd be either that Peach is being impersonated or was forced to send the letter by someone else. The alarm bells aren't ringing too loudly, but Peach's pushiness about Mario helping her ("That means you MUST come!") and coming to Rogueport over a treasure map of all things struck me as a little odd. Then again, as Brofield's Super Mario 64 screenshot shows, the Peach of that era can be forward with her invitations. However, she at least said "please" before.

That she sent Mario the map (why would she not keep it?) and how she got the map are also weird to me.

I haven't played the original game, so all my thoughts are entirely based on hunches and past Mario experiences and ultimately meaningless given people have already played the game and know the story. I could be reading way too much into it, but I am just speculating for fun.

 

[VDenter]

I want to get this but the FPS downgrade is such a bummer. Paying full price for a remake that plays worse than the original, and it’s a game that I already own and have played to death makes this issue really stick out and makes me feel bad supporting this, if i do. I never thought there would be a day when there is a Paper Mario TTYD remake coming out and I am having serious doubts on whether I want to pick it up. Nothing bugs me more than when remakes of classic games run worse. I think it’s downright almost unacceptable. :/

I hope to god this wasn't some misguided design decision to make TTYD more like the modern Paper Mario games because they also run at lower FPS. I don't know if that would be worse than if this was just the remake being badly optimized. Because based on how the footage looks, I still see zero reason for why this is not 60fps. Game looks good but not so boundry pushing that it justifies the downgraded peformance from the original.

 

[VintoWin]

Feel bad for supporting it? If you like this game a lot and want it to succeed I wouldn't feel bad for supporting this...

To each his own.

The positives outweigh the negatives by a huge margin lol.

I can't wait till Switch 2 comes out so people will have to come up with other reasons for disliking Nintendo games lol.

 

[kirbyfan407]

I want to get this but the FPS downgrade is such a bummer. Paying full price for a remake that plays worse than the original, and it’s a game that I already own and have played to death makes this issue really stick out and makes me feel bad supporting this, if i do. I never thought there would be a day when there is a Paper Mario TTYD remake coming out and I am having serious doubts on whether I want to pick it up. Nothing bugs me more than when remakes of classic games run worse. I think it’s downright almost unacceptable. :/

I hope to god this wasn't some misguided design decision to make TTYD more like the modern Paper Mario games because they also run at lower FPS. I don't know if that would be worse than if this was just the remake being badly optimized. Because based on how the footage looks, I still see zero reason for why this is not 60fps. Game looks good but not so boundry pushing that it justifies the downgraded peformance from the original.

I think the most likely reason is something with the combination of resolution and graphical effects causes performance demands on the Switch such that it doesn't consistently hit 60 fps (GPU? memory bandwidth?). The other reason I can think of (without looking into it) is the engine they use on the modern games has something tied to a 30fps refresh. I think the only way we'd ever get answers (if we could) would be if people are able to hack the game on release to disable the framerate cap and then mess around with an overclocked Switch to see where the constraints are.

 

[ze_]

Fun looking back at this popular older mock-up and contrasting it to what we're actually getting, which maintains more of TTYD's original style and also shows how IS’ approach has evolved since.

 

[Dragoncaine]

Fun looking back at this popular older mock-up and contrasting it to what we're actually getting, which maintains more of TTYD's original style and also shows how IS’ approach has evolved since.

God, they're being so cheeky by always hiding the noose with speech bubbles lol

 

[ze_]

God, they're being so cheeky by always hiding the noose with speech bubbles lol

I dug around looking for a normal screenshot of Rogueport assuming there must be one, but nope lol it's just this shot

Spoiler: Cover thine eyes

 

[Lucifer]

Yes, Moth understood my intent. I wasn't saying there was anything suspicious about the social media post. I meant that the letter read like the kind of letter that you THINK is being sent with good intentions by the person who signed it but is actually not. Like how the Luigi's Mansion series has Luigi being lured into a trap at the start (from what I remember), or how Princess Peach Showtime begins with the advertisement for the theater. As for what I'd speculate is actually going on, it'd be either that Peach is being impersonated or was forced to send the letter by someone else. The alarm bells aren't ringing too loudly, but Peach's pushiness about Mario helping her ("That means you MUST come!") and coming to Rogueport over a treasure map of all things struck me as a little odd. Then again, as Brofield's Super Mario 64 screenshot shows, the Peach of that era can be forward with her invitations. However, she at least said "please" before.

That she sent Mario the map (why would she not keep it?) and how she got the map are also weird to me.

I haven't played the original game, so all my thoughts are entirely based on hunches and past Mario experiences and ultimately meaningless given people have already played the game and know the story. I could be reading way too much into it, but I am just speculating for fun.

I hope we get sassy Peach back for good, after SPM Peach got nerfed into being sweet and nothing more. The movie finally injected some of that character back into her,

 

[kirbyfan407]

I hope we get sassy Peach back for good, after SPM Peach got nerfed into being sweet and nothing more. The movie finally injected some of that character back into her,

I'd say she had some sass in Super Mario Odyssey. The ending and post-game Peach were a nice surprise for me. I'm not super far into it, but she seems to be somewhat neutral and a little of everything in Showtime so far, which makes sense given the age group likely being targeted and the central mechanic of the game. I have faith she'll have some spunk in her next mainline Mario appearance and hopefully whatever is next for her in the spin-off franchises.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

So, place your bets: Toad chalkline. Will the west get it or will it be removed entirely?

 

[Dragoncaine]

So, place your bets: Toad chalkline. Will the west get it or will it be removed entirely?

Put it back in, cowards

 

[entut1]

So, place your bets: Toad chalkline. Will the west get it or will it be removed entirely?

Is that blood on the floor, that's definitely getting scrapped if it is (maybe they'll keep the chalkline though, after all you don't need to bleed somebody to kill)

 

[Dragoncaine]

Also, after some thought (and considering I haven't replayed the game in like 7 years), I think my boss rankings would go as follows:

Spoiler: Boss Ranking

1. Shadow Queen - One of my most nostalgic childhood gaming memories is being 8 years old and beating the Shadow Queen on my 3rd try with literally 1 HP left. Incredible music, atmosphere, and difficulty for the type of RPG this is.

2. Smorg - Again, this is a great, completely unexpected chapter boss after a suspenseful build-up during one of the game's best and most creative chapters. The difficulty is just right, and while the design is intentionally unappealing, I truly felt the stakes of the chapter ensemble's fate hanging in the balance here.

3. Cortez - Cortez probably has the best design in the entire game, his triple-attack moves are intimidating on the surface but are fun to block and counter with precise timing, he has a nice amount of personality, and the epilogue to this chapter only solidifies his ranking for me. Could easily swap with Smorg.

4. Doopliss - Dooplis' boss theme is an absolute banger, and his copying mechanic had the potential to make this the best fight in the entire game, especially by using your partners against you. Unfortunately, despite being a fun fight, it's way too easy. Doopliss' HP is too low and your partners don't deal enough damage to ever make this fight formidable.

5. Macho Grubba - I think similarly to Doopliss, this fight could've been pretty challenging in theory, but Grubba spends too many turns buffing himself without ever fully taking advantage of it, so it's over before it even starts in a sense. Love the design and Grubba is one of the best characters in the game, though.

6. Hooktail - Perfectly good Chapter 1 boss. Hooktail eating the crowd is an early highlight of the game, and the ability to have a truly challenging fight if you don't use the FX badge is a challenge I intend to pursue once the remake drops on May 23rd.

7. Magnus Von Grapple 2.0 - He's a better version of the boss from Chapter 2, which means he's the 2nd worst boss in the game.

8. Magnus Von Grapple - Just uninspired. I like Lord Crump well enough, but they could've done more to reflect his personality or unique traits in these two fights.

I'll try to draft up my Chapter rankings this weekend. I have a feeling those will be a lot harder to assess than the bosses, and I can't wait to do a post-replay retrospective once I beat the remake!

 

[WolfDW]

I dug around looking for a normal screenshot of Rogueport assuming there must be one, but nope lol it's just this shot

Spoiler: Cover thine eyes

I also found this one which shows it (and which also allows for a relatively nice comparison with that mock-up).

 

[Mekanos]

So, place your bets: Toad chalkline. Will the west get it or will it be removed entirely?

If it’s removed it’ll also be removed from the Japanese version since the games are all released with the same content nowadays.

 

[Dragoncaine]

I also found this one which shows it (and which also allows for a relatively nice comparison with that mock-up).

Whoa, where did this come from?!

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I love how that new screenshot is missing the obvious carboard from the mock up but the way the game is done, the textures still read paper, but instead it's paper slotted together. So good.

 

[Truno]

A tier list made by r/PaperMario ranking the chapters of the first 3 PM games. What do you ya'll think?

PM chapter 7 should be S+ and chapter 6 should be C

 

[Hocot8]

A tier list made by r/PaperMario ranking the chapters of the first 3 PM games. What do you ya'll think?

PM chapter 7 should be S+ and chapter 6 should be C

boggly woods easily a D chapter. Whenever i replay the game that's the chapter that has taken me out the most. It's just so bad. I hate those stupid little things and just the "story" is so blah. It's so shit cause it right after chapter 1, which is great and then before Glitzville, which is magnificent.

 

[VintoWin]

I feel like censorship towards dark/violent/religious etc themes are more lenient today than they were in the 90s early 2000s.

The toad outline will probably be there in the English version.

 

[Dragoncaine]

A tier list made by r/PaperMario ranking the chapters of the first 3 PM games. What do you ya'll think?

PM chapter 7 should be S+ and chapter 6 should be C

PM-7 should 100% be S+, idk if I can put TTYD-5 in S tier with the chuckola-cola backtracking but it's damn close, same for PM-5, otherwise I'm really happy with this. Shy Guy's Toybox originally landed at B which I thought was wild, so I'm glad the re-vote brought it up to A.

 

[WolfDW]

Whoa, where did this come from?!

I initially saw it on the Spanish Nintendo store page, though it seems to be there on all the European pages, including the UK one.

 

[ze_]

I also found this one which shows it (and which also allows for a relatively nice comparison with that mock-up).

Oh, nice find! For others curious about where this came from, it's on the UK summary page.

I love how that new screenshot is missing the obvious carboard from the mock up but the way the game is done, the textures still read paper, but instead it's paper slotted together. So good.

Also subtle details like the stone walls around the city curling at the ends (easier to spot below), the staircase on the gallows warping to the left, and the stone path to the badge shop being slightly unfurled. All touches that reveal the paper artifice while also tying into Rogueport's comparatively poor state.

Bringing it together, here's a zoomed out shot of the original game from Supper Mario Broth:

 

[Hocot8]

I think if I had to complain about how Rougeport looks it's that the remake version loses it's character a bit.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I think if I had to complain about how Rougeport looks it's that the remake version loses it's character a bit.

Really? If anything the place looks grimier than it originally did. At least intentionally grimier.

 

[Hocot8]

Really? If anything the place looks grimier than it originally did. At least intentionally grimier.

you think so? I'm not seeing it in the pics above tbh.

 

[Cheetah6442]

you think so? I'm not seeing it in the pics above tbh.

I see it with the spills on the ground, more sheets of paper strewn everywhere(a couple even blowing the breeze), floor being scratched up, etc. Makes Rogueport more of a dump then what you initially thought.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Really? If anything the place looks grimier than it originally did. At least intentionally grimier.

Yes, I feel like the paper aesthetic emphasizes the mood. Like a good music track in the background.

 

[Stilt Village]

The original art style makes it look dingier, but the remake does go to greater lengths to emphasize the details like puddles and trash. The original had more of a comic book feel, while the remake has a bit of that cleaner bright and sunny diorama look of modern Paper Mario that I think takes you out of the atmosphere a bit. Getting this detailed high fidelity look at the literal seams of the world makes it a lot harder to suspend disbelief I think.