Discussion What if Pokemon remakes started demaking backwards instead

[Stopdoor]

I just had this random thought when thinking about how the Diamond & Pearl remakes were kind of a regression from previous remakes, and everyone is bracing themselves in fear for whatever might be next. And then it gets even more kind of weird right? When they're obligated by the unbreakable, mystical cycles to continue remaking games forever, and they have to start remaking 3D games.

So what if we got like, a 2D-HD style Black & White "remake". Barely a touch-up really. Then for X & Y, it keeps going 2D, styled like a GBA-style throwback. Sun & Moon in Game Boy Colour graphics, Sword & Shield in black and white.

and then Pokemon just ends. It's over. reduced to nothing. ashes to ashes. no more. goodebye

yes?

Spoiler

or sure yeah I guess they'll keep making modern Pokemon games but remakes are DONE

I guess you can assume they still have modern gameplay conveniences baked in for this thought experiment

 

[Quinton]

Sure, I’d love to live in an even weirder world than the real one.

 

[Lord Azrael]

With all the weird ways Game Freak loves to break pattern now, I could legitimately see this happening for one game eventually lol

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I think the pixel-ness of Pokémon games is naturally appealing, but they don't necessarily have to be so drastic. 2D HD remakes could work as well. Maybe a mix of the two approaches?

 

[Brock Reiher]

I think HD2D is the ugliest graphical style used in games today so I am against that idea. But X and Y with high quality sprites like Black and White had would be cool. Scarlet and Violet would he very difficult to do.

 

[Hylianhero777]

Honestly Scarlet/Violet's story/dex/non linear structure done in the style of black and white, with way more in depth towns and routes with actual level design, would probably be the best game in the series

 

[Lord Azrael]

I think HD2D is the ugliest graphical style used in games today so I am against that idea.

You know what Brock. I actually agree with you

Well maybe not like THE ugliest, but certainly the biggest gulf by far between popular consensus and my own opinion

 

[Serif]

I'm not the biggest fan of HD2D, but I am genuinely excited for this Gen V graphics hack of Platinum.

 

[Bowser Sr.]

I don't even know what "demaking'' means and I fear the day I'll find out.

 

[Mekanos]

I definitely miss Pokemon sprites. Just want them to look decent in HD and less like 2DHD.

 

[Tye]

And then it gets even more kind of weird right? When they're obligated by the unbreakable, mystical cycles to continue remaking games forever, and they have to start remaking 3D games.

What’s so weird about them remaking the 3D games? Just because they wouldn’t be going from 2D to 3D? But, like, it wasn’t weird when they remake Generations I and II but still in 2D, right? So what’s the difference?

 

[Stopdoor]

What’s so weird about them remaking the 3D games? Just because they wouldn’t be going from 2D to 3D? But, like, it wasn’t weird when they remake Generations I and II but still in 2D, right? So what’s the difference?

well, sure, if they made a leap for X & Y to something on a modern level that would be something, but it doesn't seem like they're going to do that going by Diamond & Pearl, and past that it also seems more and more like diminishing returns - it'll be more like HD remasters or whatever than true "remakes". Which, I guess people will probably still eat up, but dang that's boring.

 

[Tye]

well, sure, if they made a leap for X & Y to something on a modern level that would be something, but past that it seems more and more like diminishing returns - it'll be more like HD remasters or whatever than true "remakes". Which, I guess people will probably still eat up, but dang that's boring.

There’d still be plenty of opportunity to change up the games significantly enough, including visually, regardless of whether they’d be classified as “remakes” or “remasters”. General quality of life improvements alone would justify those rereleases no matter what form they take, plus just having access to the games on newer hardware. And there’s nothing stopping them from adding entirely new content as has always been the tradition with Pokémon remakes (though BD/SP were more light on those kind of additions, but they still existed nonetheless).

 

[Lord Azrael]

well, sure, if they made a leap for X & Y to something on a modern level that would be something, but it doesn't seem like they're going to do that going by Diamond & Pearl, and past that it also seems more and more like diminishing returns - it'll be more like HD remasters or whatever than true "remakes". Which, I guess people will probably still eat up, but dang that's boring.

There’d still be plenty of opportunity to change up the games significantly enough, including visually, regardless of whether they’d be classified as “remakes” or “remasters”. General quality of life improvements alone would justify those rereleases no matter what form they take, plus just having access to the games on newer hardware. And there’s nothing stopping them from adding entirely new content as has always been the tradition with Pokémon remakes (though BD/SP were more light on those kind of additions, but they still existed nonetheless).

I wouldn't assume that they're gonna keep remaking games indefinitely anyway. Game Freak is on record saying that they only did ORAS due to fan demand, and BDSP was an outsourced project clearly meant to hedge their bets on Arceus, a much riskier departure. Creatively speaking, it seems that they've had no interest in making straight remakes themselves for a long while now.

I think we'll get gen 5 remakes eventually, probably outsourced to ILCA again, because those should be easy enough, but after that... idk, maybe just upscaled ports going forward. We'll see. But I will say, non-zero chance for a one off demake!

 

[Tye]

I wouldn't assume that they're gonna keep remaking games indefinitely anyway. Game Freak is on record saying that they only did ORAS due to fan demand, and BDSP was an outsourced project clearly meant to hedge their bets on Arceus, a much riskier departure. Creatively speaking, it seems that they've had no interest in making straight remakes themselves for a long while now.

I think we'll get gen 5 remakes eventually, probably outsourced to ILCA again, because those should be easy enough, but after that... idk, maybe just upscaled ports going forward. We'll see. But I will say, non-zero chance for a one off demake!

I mean, these “upscaled ports” would almost certainly have significant additions like the latest quality of life improvements from the current generation of the time, Pokémon HOME support, new Pokémon models and animations, etc., so they’re naturally going to be more than just simple ports regardless. Will they be more along the lines of roughly 1:1 remasters than remakes? Sure, maybe, but even so they’re going to be more than just simple “upscaled ports”. Regardless, they shouldn’t require a ton of resources to develop, and I assume Game Freak will likely have Pokémon Works making them moving forward, so I can’t imagine them just opting to not release remakes at all anymore, especially since it’s not like they’re churning them out every year or two anyway. They’ll probably still stick to the general pattern of releasing remakes every ~5+ years.

 

[Lord Azrael]

I mean, these “upscaled ports” would almost certainly have significant additions like the latest quality of life improvements from the current generation of the time, Pokémon HOME support, new Pokémon models and animations, etc., so they’re naturally going to be more than just simple ports regardless. Will they be more along the lines of roughly 1:1 remasters than remakes? Sure, maybe, but even so they’re going to be more than just simple “upscaled ports”. Regardless, they shouldn’t require a ton of resources to develop, and I assume Game Freak will likely have Pokémon Works making them moving forward, so I can’t imagine them just opting to not release remakes at all anymore, especially since it’s not like they’re churning them out every year or two anyway. They’ll probably still stick to the general pattern of releasing remakes every ~5+ years.

Yeah, if they happen then they'll have some QoL updates for sure. New content though? Unless Game Freak does them in house, which I don't see being the case anymore - agreed that this will be Pokémon Works' domain going forward - then I doubt it. And definitely not anything even mildly experimental

 

[Tye]

Yeah, if they happen then they'll have some QoL updates for sure. New content though? Unless Game Freak does them in house, which I don't see being the case anymore - agreed that this will be Pokémon Works' domain going forward - then I doubt it. And definitely not anything even mildly experimental

Why not? BD/SP wasn’t in house and it had new content, and I don’t see why that trend wouldn’t continue under Pokémon Works. Doesn’t mean there would be a hugely significant amount of new content, but there’d very likely be some new content regardless.

 

[Wockio]

I think HD2D is the ugliest graphical style used in games today so I am against that idea. But X and Y with high quality sprites like Black and White had would be cool. Scarlet and Violet would he very difficult to do.

Pokemon Gen 4 and 5 are HD2D before HD2D in a way, but it doesnt look bad like HD2D because the environment is still very primitive

 

[Lord Azrael]

Why not? BD/SP wasn’t in house and it had new content, and I don’t see why that trend wouldn’t continue under Pokémon Works. Doesn’t mean there would be a hugely significant amount of new content, but there’d very likely be some new content regardless.

Uh yeah, I guess I forgot about Ramanas Park lol. Sure, content to that level. Basically just some glorified extra battles. Wouldn't expect any new designs or story

 

[Lord Azrael]

Pokemon Gen 4 and 5 are HD2D before HD2D in a way, but it doesnt look bad like HD2D because the environment is still very primitive

In the sense that they're sprites in a partially 3D environment. Not the nasty looking bloom and particle effects out the ass though. But it sounds like you don't like HD2D either lol

 

[Tye]

Uh yeah, I guess I forgot about Ramanas Park lol. Sure, content to that level. Basically just some glorified extra battles. Wouldn't expect any new designs or story

There’s the Grand Underground, too, plus a bunch of other more minor additions, like walking Pokémon, Gym Leader rematches, etc. But yeah, the plot was largely unchanged, and that may well be the case for future remakes too, but they’ll surely still get some form of new content either way.

 

[Revolsin]

Pokemon Gen 4 and 5 are HD2D before HD2D in a way, but it doesnt look bad like HD2D because the environment is still very primitive

in what bizarro world does HD2D look bad

the Octopath games, Triangle Strategy, Dragon Quest and especially the recent Star Ocean are literally all gorgeous

i would take that style over BDSP """faithful 3d remakes"""" any day of the week

 

[Serif]

B/W did get close to that 'diorama' look of HD-2D by playing with non-overhead camera angles and mixing sprites with 3D models. I'd argue the overall look is more cohesive and less 'paper cutout' than how HD-2D looks now since the original games are intended for that 144p DS screen, so all the assets blend together. With a screen resolution that low everything ends up becoming pixel art. Playing at higher resolutions exposes the 'trickery'.

I personally think the environments of the HD-2D games are gorgeous, and the sprites are gorgeous, but look disjointed when put together. I'm not the biggest fan of the final look. But I know I'm in the minority.

 

[Concernt]

On a serious note, I continue to expect Black and White to get faithful outsourced remakes while the 3DS games get remasters instead.

 

[grobla123]

Based on this logic it might go something like:

HGSS DS Remaster > Gen 5 GBA style>Gen 6 GBC style>Gen 7 RBY Style Sprites (w/super game boy colors)>Gen 3 again in RG "creative" sprites, green color only> Lets go/Gen 1 in Atari style> Gen 8, Pong, Black and white simple style > Gen4/PLA/Gen 9/-ZA/Gen 10 ????????? (maybe starts from scratch, the most "modern" style remake was lets go, so maybe from that style of visuals and back down the list?).

This would ignore anything between BDSP/Lets go and skipping to the DS style though. I really like Gen 7's engine and Gen 6 is okay so seeing say SWSH or something like that would be neat. But that's almost enough work to just give it the BDSP or simple remaster treatment so that isn't happening.

I'm also on the HD2D is overrated train. Its fine and certainly many step above BDSP but I don't they look incredible. I prefer Hi-bit. (Owlboy my beloved).

 

[boodream]

On a serious note, I continue to expect Black and White to get faithful outsourced remakes while the 3DS games get remasters instead.

I'd be inclined to think the same, but it will certainly depend on the hardware on which any remakes of 3DS games are released. Obviously, when we see a game like Luigi's Mansion 2, developed for the 3DS, get an HD remaster on Switch, it might make you think that. However, before taking a step back and allowing more years to pass, if, for example, the Switch 2 gets Unova remake and the question of Pokémon 3DS games arises after the Switch 2, then I imagine that the technological gap will be big enough to justify something other than a simple remaster.

 

[Red Monster]

I don't even know what "demaking'' means and I fear the day I'll find out.

this is what I think of when I think “demake”

 

[Lucifer]

I wouldn't want that, I think it's time for this gazillion dollar company to create a good art style and get 3D down.

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

leaked image of the Scarlet/Violet remakes. featuring a brand new Pokémon.

 

[Djehuty]

With all the weird ways Game Freak loves to break pattern now, I could legitimately see this happening for one game eventually lol

Genuinely what ways.

I just want them laid out.

 

[Lord Azrael]

Genuinely what ways.

I just want them laid out.

We can go as far back as gen 5 really. B2W2 instead of Gray. No Pokémon Z (even though something was definitely planned). USUM to an extent. Switching to DLC over third versions starting in gen 8. Legends Arceus in general. "Skipping" Unova to dive straight into Kalos with Legends

 

[Pokemaniac]

If they're going to continue "remaking" these games, they should really probably just stick to doing basically ports with some minor cleanups.

 

[JazzyFuture]

If you want to be cynical enough you can say BDSP is a demake of Platinum that removed all the QoL features from that.

 

[Stopdoor]

As much as I'm sort of joking, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility they make a throwback Pokemon game in 2D eventually. It would satisfy a lot of people looking for that classic feel and the company is constantly trying to mine that nostalgia.

Of course, I wouldn't bet on it any time soon. But it doesn't feel impossible.

 

[Djehuty]

We can go as far back as gen 5 really. B2W2 instead of Gray. No Pokémon Z (even though something was definitely planned). USUM to an extent. Switching to DLC over third versions starting in gen 8. Legends Arceus in general. "Skipping" Unova to dive straight into Kalos with Legends

They never skipped unova,

Remakes have always been 1 per system, and new games every 3 years. In that way they would not only never reach parity but always keep on falling behind.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

In the modern day, sprite based games wouldn't sell as much as model ones, and would take significantly more effort to make.

There is literally zero chance whatsoever that they would do this.

And even if they did, the biggest problems facing poke on have nothing to do with whether the series is sprite or model based. You'd be slashing the sales potential for basically no benefit.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

They never skipped unova,

Remakes have always been 1 per system, and new games every 3 years. In that way they would not only never reach parity but always keep on falling behind.

Remakes remaining "one per console" makes little sense given they need to pad the lineup and it'd be a foolish line to stick to for GameFreak/TPC when by the era of the DS we had multiple generations per console.

You can just as easily point to the pattern, of we are arbitrarily insisting there is one, being "one remake per generation" ever since gen 3, with the exception of BW, and that's because the DS line came to an end. Yeah, one generation didn't have a remake, but it's just as flawed to insist on "one remake per console!" Because the switch has two remakes and pretending let's go doesn't exist is just as silly.

Now that remakes can be outsourced, I'm quite sure we'll see more of them, whether that's in the form of let's go or games like BDSP, or something else.

 

[Lord Azrael]

They never skipped unova,

Remakes have always been 1 per system, and new games every 3 years. In that way they would not only never reach parity but always keep on falling behind.

ok... I didn't say they broke every single pattern. It's the side games they're getting experimental with. And they're clearly not interested in in-house traditional remakes anymore. If they do stick to that pattern, it'll be because they outsource them all going forward

When I said skipped Unova I meant in relation to Legends. They went from Sinnoh to Kalos. Also remakes have had varying lengths of time between them, and not every generation has been exactly three years, if I were to nitpick

 

[Jersh]

"Skipping" Unova to dive straight into Kalos with Legends

I respect that this is irrelevant to your larger point, but I don't understand the general Internet's claim here. A one-off Sinnoh game is not a pattern. Unova wasn't skipped any more than Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn were.

 

[Djehuty]

Remakes remaining "one per console" makes little sense given they need to pad the lineup and it'd be a foolish line to stick to for GameFreak/TPC when by the era of the DS we had multiple generations per console.

You can just as easily point to the pattern, of we are arbitrarily insisting there is one, being "one remake per generation" ever since gen 3, with the exception of BW, and that's because the DS line came to an end. Yeah, one generation didn't have a remake, but it's just as flawed to insist on "one remake per console!" Because the switch has two remakes and pretending let's go doesn't exist is just as silly.

Now that remakes can be outsourced, I'm quite sure we'll see more of them, whether that's in the form of let's go or games like BDSP, or something else.

I’m gonna pretend let’s go isn’t anyway, it’s a retread of an old game so it still functions as a way to not again parity, after all if they catch up to the main games they can’t really remake anything.

It’s important to ensure there’s a visual difference between an original and remake

 

[LegendofLex]

I pretty much universally like the 2D games better (TPC does not know how to make 3D worlds but their 2D ones range from okay to good), so I'd be very happy with this!

Spoiler

BDSP were my favorite Pokémon games since Gen V

 

[Lord Azrael]

I respect that this is irrelevant to your larger point, but I don't understand the general Internet's claim here. A one-off Sinnoh game is not a pattern. Unova wasn't skipped any more than Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn were.

Eh, I think Legends Arceus was basically meant as the replacement to an internally developed DPP remake. I don't think it's a coincidence they started with Sinnoh. They'll probably bounce around the regions going forward, so retroactively yeah I'll probably agree with you, but I don't blame anyone for perceiving it that way at the time