Fun Club What happens first? FF1-6 on Switch vs. Sony buys Square Enix

[Scrawnton]

Just had a random thought pop into my head and I figured I would take Fami’s temperature on the topic. Square is more than dragging their feet in regards to FF1-6 on Switch and there have been some rumors of Sony buying Square Enix to lock down Final Fantasy once and for all. So, let’s put the gauntlet down and decide which will happen first, FF1-6 on Switch, or Sony stealing the FF franchise from everyone once and for all?

 

[Brock Reiher]

Sony is gonna take Square with them out of the console business before we get FF1 on switch I fear

 

[Leo]

I don't really care one way or another, but I don't think Sony is gonna buy Square anytime soon.

 

[Gay Bowser]

I think even in the theoretical scenario where Sony buys Square Enix, they'd be most likely to operate them similar to how Microsoft is planning to operate Activision (or how they themselves are planning to operate Bungie), with continued multi-platform support.

You don't drop billions of dollars for Square Enix and then say "You can't put Dragon Quest on Switch"

 

[9-Volt]

Sony ain't buying Square, ever, at least all of it.

FF1-6 is a matter of time unless... Square is planning 2D-HD remakes for ALL OF THEM.

 

[MaitreWakou]

None, lol

 

[lightning16]

I still think FF1-6 Pixel Remasters coming to consoles is just a matter of time. Would be very weird if not.

As for the possibility of Sony buying Square Enix... Honestly I've been trying to avoid these rumors like the plague lol. Genuinely bums me out to think about it.

Regardless, I assume FF1-6 would come first.

 

[Vanillalite]

I think even in the theoretical scenario where Sony buys Square Enix, they'd be most likely to operate them similar to how Microsoft is planning to operate Activision (or how they themselves are planning to operate Bungie), with continued multi-platform support.

You don't drop billions of dollars for Square Enix and then say "You can't put Dragon Quest on Switch"

I mean at the same point Starfield IS Xbox only, and that’s the same plan for Elder Scrolls going forward.

Sure ES:O is still being supported much like Destiny 2 will be since it’s already on everything, but don’t expect newly developed titles going forward to be that way. I’d say the same of SE titles if they are bought by Sony.

 

[Gay Bowser]

I mean at the same point Starfield IS Xbox only, and that’s the same plan for Elder Scrolls going forward.

The difference is that Elder Scrolls's success isn't largely reliant on one national market that is dominated by one of Microsoft's competitors.

Dragon Quest isn't going to go PS-only anytime soon.

 

[Leica]

The Pixel Remasters will come to consoles, pretty confident about that.

 

[Xaltmas]

I’m still iffy on Sony buying Square, and the people actively rooting for it gross me out.

The Pixel Remasters will be on consoles before the end of 2022 imo.

 

[9-Volt]

I mean at the same point Starfield IS Xbox only, and that’s the same plan for Elder Scrolls going forward.

Sure ES:O is still being supported much like Destiny 2 will be since it’s already on everything, but don’t expect newly developed titles going forward to be that way. I’d say the same of SE titles if they are bought by Sony.

In the case of hypothetical Sony buyout of Square-enix, there'd be a mass talent exodus. But Square might offload them before the buyout to have a smoother acquisition process.

They did offload something but Eidos is just what Sony would have wanted. If they do buy Square, exodus would still happen and Sony would shut down other needless ventures Square possesses. And since no one has quit Square yet, or Square hasn't sold off their print publishing house or Taito, acquisition is not happening.

 

[Seven]

In the case of hypothetical Sony buyout of Square-enix, there'd be a mass talent exodus. But Square might offload them before the buyout to have a smoother acquisition process.

They did offload something but Eidos is just what Sony would have wanted. If they do buy Square, exodus would still happen and Sony would shut down other needless ventures Square possesses. And since no one has quit Square yet, or Square hasn't sold off their print publishing house or Taito, acquisition is not happening.

I wonder if the rumor about Sony buying Square Enix came about because they were bidding for those western studios SE was selling. I could easily see word of that being twisted through the grapevine into the rumor we have today.

 

[9-Volt]

I wonder if the rumor about Sony buying Square Enix came about because they were bidding for those western studios SE was selling. I could easily see word of that being twisted through the grapevine into the rumor we have today.

That would have been a weird auction as Embracer literally stole the studios for $300m. Sony would have outbid them instantly.

But... it could be that Sony wanted them but they refused, they have been planning to go to Embracer from the start.

Another option is Sony acquiring just the Division 1, makers of the new numbered FF games. The rest, Sony do not need.

 

[SammyJ9]

I’m still iffy on Sony buying Square, and the people actively rooting for it gross me out.

The Pixel Remasters will be on consoles before the end of 2022 imo.

Yep. I'm honestly expecting the pixel remasters to be in the next Direct, or if not there, definitely in the September one. Anything after that feels like they'd be missing the boat a little, despite the demand still being there, of course.

 

[Mr Doggo]

Honestly eidos also seem like a bizarre mix for sony, not as bad as some of square teams but yeah.

 

[Mr Swine]

The difference is that Elder Scrolls's success isn't largely reliant on one national market that is dominated by one of Microsoft's competitors.

Dragon Quest isn't going to go PS-only anytime soon.

I really don’t see Sony letting SE releasing DQ on Switch even if it’s the biggest market for it. Sony would just release it for PS5/PC/smartphone

 

[Christo750]

Until it happens, I choose to believe FF 1-6 on consoles are never happening. Sony buying SE is also never happening but FF 1-6 is even more not happening.

 

[Blue Monty]

I really don’t see Sony letting SE releasing DQ on Switch even if it’s the biggest market for it. Sony would just release it for PS5/PC/smartphone

If you release a full priced game in mobile, it will be bomb heavily and PC while growing isn't a big factor at all in Japan. I think DQ will skip Switch if Sony buys SE but PC/Mobile isn't helping at all

 

[Scrawnton]

Assuming Square is selling and Sony is trying to buy. Does Nintendo stand by and silently let it happen?

Bonus question, if Sony buys Square, how many of the (non mainline final fantasy) devs jump ship to Monolith Soft?

 

[9-Volt]

I really don’t see Sony letting SE releasing DQ on Switch even if it’s the biggest market for it. Sony would just release it for PS5/PC/smartphone

Yuji Horii and his team would depart Square instantly if the acquisition happens. Then Sony would tuck DQ into grave where White Knight Story, Wild Arms, Arc the Lad, Oreshika and Freedom Wars are also buried.

 

[MondoMega]

They'll dump the pixel remasters onto consoles eventually.

Sony aren't acquiring Square Enix.

 

[Shinespark]

The thing with Sony purchasing a large Japanese publisher is that it's hard for me to see this happening with the head of PlayStation requiring an interpreter to talk with senior Japanese leadership. There's so much evidence of personal touches and connections influencing game development in Japan (like DQXIS on the Switch being partially a promise to Iwata) and yet ppl are assuming SE will make a simple dollars and cents transaction.

I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely.

 

[Blue Monty]

Assuming Square is selling and Sony is trying to buy. Does Nintendo stand by and silently let it happen?

Yes, if they are forced to buy a publisher SE is not the 1st, 2nd or even third option for Nintendo.

Bonus question, if Sony buys Square, how many of the (non mainline final fantasy) devs jump ship to Monolith Soft?

I think most that wil leave will end up in Mistwalker and studios with history of SE support (Artdink,Acquire,Tri-ace,etc) but a decent amount will end up in Monolith Soft probably, I expect one of Asano or Kawazu to end up there.

 

[Aether]

If they plan to publish it in the next 24 months, then for shure. even after the anouncement, it will take a while till they get the "Go" from institutions, and by that point hte project should be halfway to release at least, if its not already sitting finished for some big event.

They shure could say "ours ours ours"... but i dont think they will want to burn so many people from the get go. it will be a slow rush,
just as they wont remove square games from the eshop. New exclusive games? no chance. But this? i think theyl would release it.

FF9 remaster (if it exists) on the other hand...

 

[9-Volt]

Assuming Square is selling and Sony is trying to buy. Does Nintendo stand by and silently let it happen?

Bonus question, if Sony buys Square, how many of the (non mainline final fantasy) devs jump ship to Monolith Soft?

I reckon Nintendo would start separate studios for poached talent. They have done that before with Grezzo, who's lead by Koichi Ishii, creator of Mana series.

I think most that wil leave will end up in Mistwalker and studios with history of SE support (Artdink,Acquire,Tri-ace,etc) but a decent amount will end up in Monolith Soft probably, I expect one of Asano, Koichi Ishii or Kawazu to end up there.

It's been a while since Ishii has departed. He founded Grezzo, makers of Zelda remakes and remasters.

 

[Blue Monty]

I reckon Nintendo would start separate studios for poached talent. They have done that before with Grezzo, who's lead by Koichi Ishii, creator of Mana series.

I wonder if they will just support an independent studio or just create one themselves with Nintendo money (so owned by Nintendo). They have done both things in the past

 

[Blue Monty]

It's been a while since Ishii has departed. He founded Grezzo, makers of Zelda remakes and remasters.

He returned to help with the Mana remakes! So I thought he returned there at least part time, I checked after posting and it seems it was just him loving the Mana series enough to want to be part of the projects

 

[9-Volt]

I wonder if they will just support an independent studio or just create one themselves with Nintendo money (so owned by Nintendo). They have done both things in the past

They'd be instrumental in founding the studio but not fully own them to give them freedom. Yes, they have done this in the past, with Paon (ex Data East employees) and Flagship (ex employes of Capcom, Sega and Nintendo).

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I think Sony will let Square Enix release FFI to IV and then swoop in and prevent a release of the good ones.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Sony almost certainly isn't buying Square Enix.

 

[Look over there]

I dunno, how plausible is the idea that Sony also wants Square-Enix's arcade related stuff (via Taito) and manga (Gangan Comics via Enix)
Or is the implication here being Sony wanting part of SE, not the entirety?

 

[Gay Bowser]

I really don’t see Sony letting SE releasing DQ on Switch even if it’s the biggest market for it. Sony would just release it for PS5/PC/smartphone

They’re continuing to “let” Bungie release games on Xbox.

Something that’s missed in a lot of these discussions is that part of the reason Sony might be motivated to buy a publisher like SE is to open up a revenue stream on other consoles (read: Switch). It isn’t always about buying up exclusives. Especially when one of those “other consoles” has been hugely successful and is dominating a geographic market Sony seems to be doing less than stellar in.

It’s the same reason Sony Music has long published their anime tie-in games on Nintendo platforms, and the same reason Microsoft wouldn’t have spent $70B on Activision just to make all their games exclusive to Xbox (and thus destroying a lot of the value of what they just bought). That would have been a boneheaded, Ballmer-esque “buy Nokia to try to prop up Windows Phone”-style move.

I think, in the unlikely event that Sony buys SE, Sony’s going to be pretty hands-off and SE is going to steer their ship pretty independently.

 

[Scrawnton]

They’re continuing to “let” Bungie release games on Xbox.

Something that’s missed in a lot of these discussions is that part of the reason Sony might be motivated to buy a publisher like SE is to open up a revenue stream on other consoles (read: Switch). It isn’t always about buying up exclusives. Especially when one of those “other consoles” has been hugely successful and is dominating a geographic market Sony seems to be doing less than stellar in.

It’s the same reason Sony Music has long published their anime tie-in games on Nintendo platforms, and the same reason Microsoft wouldn’t have spent $70B on Activision just to make all their games exclusive to Xbox (and thus destroying a lot of the value of what they just bought). That would have been a boneheaded, Ballmer-esque “buy Nokia to try to prop up Windows Phone”-style move.

I think, in the unlikely event that Sony buys SE, Sony’s going to be pretty hands-off and SE is going to steer their ship pretty independently.

I agree with all of this except in regards to brand new mainline Final Fantasy. If Sony buys Square I bet everything except new Final Fantasy releases are multi platform. PlayStation will remain the home of mainline new Final Fantasy releases.

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

I think the Embracer situation is causing people to overthink how Square is operating.
It's been known for years that they've generally lost interest in managing Eidos, as shown by them frequently brushing off whatever sales figures their titles get. They were also so desperate to get rid of IO Interactive that they outright gave them the Hitman (and Freedom Fighters, but that's another story.) IP once they were split off.

I know the rumours of Sony buying Square predate this. But it's definitely caused them to rise to a fever pitch.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

They’re continuing to “let” Bungie release games on Xbox.

Something that’s missed in a lot of these discussions is that part of the reason Sony might be motivated to buy a publisher like SE is to open up a revenue stream on other consoles (read: Switch). It isn’t always about buying up exclusives. Especially when one of those “other consoles” has been hugely successful and is dominating a geographic market Sony seems to be doing less than stellar in.

It’s the same reason Sony Music has long published their anime tie-in games on Nintendo platforms, and the same reason Microsoft wouldn’t have spent $70B on Activision just to make all their games exclusive to Xbox (and thus destroying a lot of the value of what they just bought). That would have been a boneheaded, Ballmer-esque “buy Nokia to try to prop up Windows Phone”-style move.

I think, in the unlikely event that Sony buys SE, Sony’s going to be pretty hands-off and SE is going to steer their ship pretty independently.

I would say in the case of Sony Music is that Sony divisions don’t always follow in lock-step with each other & often times you have one hand doing something that the other isn’t. It’s why you saw two different mobile divisions within Sony (Sony Music & Forward Works) until SIE gave up on that entirely letting that be absorbed by Sony Music.

The reasons for Sony acquiring SE would most likely be for their alignment to what Sony want currently throughout the company—mobile, gaas, anime.

 

[Blue Monty]

Sony divisions even compete against each other sometimes , for example Sonic Music/Aniplex have released before games on the Switch/Nintendo platforms and even Aniplex released an exclusive Switch game. They are even forced to pay the 30% cut to SIE for example to show how divided they are, and this has been well known for decades.

 

[Instro]

The logic people are applying to why SE offloaded Eidos, in that they are streamlining themselves for acquisition, doesn't really make sense to me. Those studios were super expensive to run, not well managed, and ultimately had like 2 notable games to their name in the entire time SE owned them. Regardless it would be a pretty massive blow for Nintendo if SE were to sell.

 

[Stephen 776]

Pixel remasters by default.

I just don't see where this "Sony acquires Square Enix" comes from. Even if we just focus on Square Enix's console game divisions and SIE, are there even many Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts fans on Xbox that are worth buying an entire conglomerate? I guess Dragon Quest is big on Nintendo, but also, I feel Dragon Quest is too wedded to the Nintendo fanbase to really thrive anywhere else. And beyond Square Enix console gaming, it's just murkier--what does Sony do with Squeenix's manga and books division?

I could see maybe the rumor coming out of Sony looking to buy Square Enix's Western studios or something, details got lost in a game of telephone, and someone other than Sony bought it anyway.

 

[Spyder]

Sony buys Square, but FF I-VI are still stuck on PC

 

[Chie]

Sony buying square enix is just some fanboy wet dream, not happening. People see Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard and Bethesda and go "well of course Sony will buy Square Enix" not releasing the absolutely massive size difference between Sony and Microsoft. It's like comparing a goldfish to a shark. Microsoft can make these huge purchases without breaking a sweat. Sony can't. Look at the studios they've been acquiring: Insomnia, Bluepoint, Bungie. Studios like that are in their price range and what they can realistically get their hands on. Spending all that just to buy Final Fantasy would be insane and that's the only thing they'd be getting too. Dragon Quest, Asano games and a lot of the retro/revival projects are much more popular on Nintendo hardware and would be really underappreciated being exclusive to Sony hardware and they would just all rot on the vine. Kingdom Hearts is actually owned by Disney and I doubt they'd be okay with the games getting restricted to a single platform like that, they may even try to take the series to a different developer in that case. Also you're getting like 2 big Final Fantasy games per console. Yes they're big popular games but they all take so many years each to make your only getting a couple games a generation. Would be a piss poor investment when for far less they can just moneyhat a game here and there as they feel they need to.

 

[Der Bubsen]

I think even in the theoretical scenario where Sony buys Square Enix, they'd be most likely to operate them similar to how Microsoft is planning to operate Activision (or how they themselves are planning to operate Bungie), with continued multi-platform support.

You don't drop billions of dollars for Square Enix and then say "You can't put Dragon Quest on Switch"

I really don’t see Sony letting SE releasing DQ on Switch even if it’s the biggest market for it. Sony would just release it for PS5/PC/smartphone

If you release a full priced game in mobile, it will be bomb heavily and PC while growing isn't a big factor at all in Japan. I think DQ will skip Switch if Sony buys SE but PC/Mobile isn't helping at all

SE doesn't own Dragon Quest Yuji Horri and his Company "Armor Project" owns Dragon Quest. Se is only the Publisher.
Se only owns Final Fantasy ,Dragon Quest is Yuji Horri and Kingdom Hearts is Disney

 

[YoboD]

Is there any actual reason that people are worried about the pixel remasters not coming to consoles, or are people just worried because it’s Square?

 

[freedomseekr]

I don't think Sony will buy Square Enix. Yes, they've been historically close, especially so after Sony partly bailed Square Co. Ltd. out during the merger with Enix (which had been ongoing at the time, but Square suffered losses after TSW flopped and had to devalue their stock as well as accept a cash injection from Sony which made SE games during gen 6 PS exclusive) and it appears they've been moving close again recently with FF XVI and other titles being timed exclusives for the PS5.

However, there are three things about this that need consideration:

1) A lot of properties associated with Square Enix are not, or at least not wholly, owned by them. Dragon Quest, as someone already mentioned is co-owned by its creators (and in one case, the heir apparent) through Armor Project and Disney owns the majority of the rights on Kingdom Hearts. Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile (though not Valkyrie Elysium) are co-owned by tri-Ace (and thus, through their ownership of tri-Ace, by Nepro Japan). Enix probably still has some publishing rights to Quintet's games as well, but they've been dissolved into Marvelous, as well as the makers of Lufia/Estpolis Senki, Neverland Corp (SQEX probably also has publishing rights there through the purchase of Taito). If Sony were to purchase Square Enix, the only properties they'd have direct control over are Final Fantasy (which is probably the series Sony would be after, since despite it's turbulences in the last decade, it's still a valuable brand and THE face of "JRPG" in The West), Mana, Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre, Front Mission, SaGa and whatever other single-entry oddities exist.

2) Square Enix is bigger than that. As mentioned above, they also own Taito, who are still in the business of running arcades in Japan and are, apparently, quite popular. Square Enix also owns its own merchandising business (those Play Arts figures are produced in-house) and a record label (though I believe they are attached to Sony Music Japan as their distributor) as well as two book imprints, SE Books and Gangan Comics, a manga label that was part of Enix starting in 1991 and is probably best known for serializing Fullmetal Alchemist, Danmachi: Is It Wrong To Try To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon and To Aru (A Certain Magical Index & A Certain Scientific Railgun). What would have to happen is for Sony/SIE to spin off these side businesses lest they be shut down or the heads of Square Enix to just sell them the game studios and whatever rights they own themselves.

3) And that's the final issue: SIE/PlayStation is Sony's money-making enterprise. Any purchase would have to be done with some amount of prudence and understanding that the purchase be done to benefit SIE in the long run. Buying an independent studio like Bungie is less of an expense than buying a whole publisher unless that publisher is willing to sell off just the studios making games.

 

[Shadow]

If anything, I'm still in awe that the original VII (physically no less!) is on the Switch but not the actual titles released on older Nintendo systems...

 

[aus89]

IF Sony buy Square, I'm fairly confident they will have a deal like Bungie (ie: be an autonomous company rather than part of "PS Studios"), and retain their publishing and all other operations of their business rather than becoming part of PS Studios, i'd optimistically expect the stuff that currently goes on Switch to continue going to Switch

 

[Scrawnton]

Is there any actual reason that people are worried about the pixel remasters not coming to consoles, or are people just worried because it’s Square?

100% because it’s Square.

Also, there has been a lot of enlightening posts in this thread, especially @sir_AnGer ‘a. So what I am taking from all of this is that it is in Sony’s best interest to just let Square Enix be and continue to lock down FF as exclusives because an acquisition would dismantle so much of what Square Enix actually is.

 

[BassForever]

Throw me in on team "I doubt Sony buys SE" camp for the reasons others have already detailed. All I wanted to add is the argument that Embracer got E/CD "for a steal at $300 million". At some point people are gonna have to accept that nobody wanted E/CD between their high production cost and lackluster sales leading to companies that barely managed to eek out a profit especially during the pandemic when everyone saw booming profits.

 

[ILikeFeet]

SIE isn't buying SE. if Sony bought SE, it'd either be Sony Group or Sony Music. and that'd wouldn't be a change for SE. not to mention, there's not a whole lot of value for SIE beyond the AAA titles, which they already spend on marketing deals. damn near everything else would be shuttered as those games don't do that well on playstation alone. would SIE keep SE's mobile efforts? I guess, but those would be better served under Sony Music. and then there's SE's other endeavors, which is useless to SIE. jettisoning those just for the gaming parts doesn't seem to be in SE's leaders' interest as they make way less money.

SE is not hurting for cash, they're not saddled with a lot of debt, the owners seems to want to keep them. those are teh reasons for the previous big purchases in the industry, and Square Enix doesn't really fall into them

 

[freedomseekr]

Throw me in on team "I doubt Sony buys SE" camp for the reasons others have already detailed. All I wanted to add is the argument that Embracer got E/CD "for a steal at $300 million". At some point people are gonna have to accept that nobody wanted E/CD between their high production cost and lackluster sales leading to companies that barely managed to eek out a profit especially during the pandemic when everyone saw booming profits.

I rather think Square Enix never quite understood what to do with Eidos. The Tomb Raider reboot back in 2013 was well-liked and also saw decent sales numbers but was considered a flop to the head honchos at SE. Deus Ex Mankind Divided was allegedly split in twain and then pumped-up with microtransactions, then the sequel appears to have been shelved. And Guardians of the Galaxy last year, while also seemingly enjoyable, didn't do well enough for the company heads.

Now, this is speculation on my part, but Square Enix seems to have bought Eidos as a result of the late 00's Japan-Is-Over panic that has led a lot of Japanese publishers to try and push for appeal towards Western markets without really understanding them. As a result, SE probably expected massive sale numbers but they overestimated the games' sales potential, at least in the short term. They also seem to have a problem with hopping on trends too late.

At some point, I guess probably the time GotG was announced to being a "poor seller", SE realized they had burdened themselves with something they didn't have the interest in to keep maintaining and decided to offload. Getting cash for some hare-brained tech schemes is probably just the cherry on top whoever drafted up the deal served to the out-of-touch old Japanese dudes in the C-suite.