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Fun Club We have Kirby Star Allies and Fire Emblem Engage as Nintendo's "mainline franchise megamixes"; what should be next?

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Kirby Star Allies and Fire Emblem Engage are main series games that prominently feature installment-specific elements from previous games in the series. So which other Nintendo series should get this treatment?

Zelda is at the top of my list for that consideration; revisiting warped and remixed locations from across the franchise would be awesome. (Hyrule Warriors doesn't count; it's not mainline).

I feel like Mario should have such an installment too, but I'm still struggling to think of a way to reconcile its ping-ponging between linearity and exploration.
 
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fire emblem engage for that exact reason feels like it can't stand on its own so i'm not crazy about the idea. but the most appropriate way IMO is strictly through gameplay. so if Nintendo were to make a Mario Odyssey sequel with past levels from 64 and Galaxy, and Delfino Plaza, in addition to its own individual kingdoms, that would be wonderful. Galaxy 2 sort of did this while never feeling like it was ripping anything off.
 
Christo750 said:
fire emblem engage for that exact reason feels like it can't stand on its own so i'm not crazy about the idea.
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A "franchise megamix" isn't supposed to stand on its own though, so I don't see how this is a problem.

Christo750 said:
so if Nintendo were to make a Mario Odyssey sequel with past levels from 64 and Galaxy, and Delfino Plaza, in addition to its own individual kingdoms, that would be wonderful. Galaxy 2 sort of did this while never feeling like it was ripping anything off.
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Like I said in the OP, the fact that 64, Sunshine, and Odyssey are exploration-based while Galaxy is linear makes that a difficult proposition.

Josh5890 said:
Imagine a Donkey Kong game where all 55 Kongs are included in the greatest adventure of all time.
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NGL, I still want a 2D Mario game that has a "Mario Kart" cast of playable characters.
 
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Fire Emblem Engage would have been a much better game if its paralogues gave us a deeper portrayal of the world the game takes place in instead of reliving past battles of flanderized versions of past FE protagonists in an environment without stakes or consequences, so the answer is: none. It sucks when a new game draws huge parts of its identity from "remember the old?".
 
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This would've been a cool idea pre-HD, but nowadays releasing a "megamix" will mean it's gonna be the only entry for the next 3+ years, and as such if it can't manage to keep a coherent identity it's going to be that much worse. It's best to just keep series-wide celebrations out of the games at this point imo
 
Despite what you said, Hyrule warriors definitely counts. It's as much of a love letter as it can be; it doesn't even make much sense to do it any other way, what else were they going to do, release a game that contains dungeons with the same puzzles? You've already got to revisit places numerous times throughout the series history otherwise.

Also how you made this thread and missed out this, I don't know.
hero
 
Linkstrikesback said:
Despite what you said, Hyrule warriors definitely counts. It's as much of a love letter as it can be; it doesn't even make much sense to do it any other way, what else were they going to do, release a game that contains dungeons with the same puzzles? You've already got to revisit places numerous times throughout the series history otherwise.

Also how you made this thread and missed out this, I don't know.
hero
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OP is specifically referring to new mainline entries that celebrate their respective franchise's past. Hyrule Warriors doesn't fit that definition, it's a celebratory spin off with entirely different gameplay. That's an entirely different thing from what the OP is describing.

A Link Between Worlds could arguably count, though, with it building up on and remixing A Link to the Past. It's not a franchise spanning mega mix though. But I'd also argue that despite being an utterly amazing game in its own right, it doesn't have quite the same shine as, say, Minish Cap (which I like less as a game) since its identity is too derivative of ALttP.
 
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Mainline Mario constantly reuses ideas end elements in every game. It needs a few more entries with brand new ideas before a "megamix" would be worth it imo.
 
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People hate well defined, broadly understood terms and love making up their own terms which are totally incoherent. Why do you think that is?
 
Gingerbread Man said:
I'd rather them focus on new characters and locations instead of pandering to nostalgia.
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Sounds like you're burned by Sonic doing it all the time in its own main series.

Nostalgia is a tool. It seems that it has now joined the ranks of linearity and repetition as things that are casually bashed but in reality can be done well or poorly.

wrowa said:
It sucks when a new game draws huge parts of its identity from "remember the old?".
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Hey, Sonic Generations managed it well until later games abused it. Even Mania did despite it arguably being excessive even at that point.

Leo said:
Why Star Allies specifically, I thought every Kirby game was a franchise megamix
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By that logic, every sequel in every series ever is one.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Neither of those games seemed super successful or loved.
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Sure, but I don't think it was because of abuse of nostalgia.
 
Apopheniac said:
The problem with megamixes is that you eventually run out of other games' elements
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Which is why it's best done on rare occasions after long stretches of time.

I'm not advocating for it to be done all the time like Sonic is right now. Or if they want to do that all the time, at least they should relegate that to spin-offs if anything.
 
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Hyrule Warriors is very specifically a franchise celebration, whether it's mainline or not

We get a new Zelda game about once every 5-7 years. I can swallow Engage because I expect another one in 2026 or whenever. But if they followed up Tears of the Kingdom with an "anniversary game" that draws on the locations and characters of the old games the way Engage does, I wouldn't be very happy

But I don't think that's anything we have to worry about with Zelda or Mario. Their franchise celebration games tend to be more about theming or have specific sections dedicated to the celebration, like Skyward Sword and Mario Odyssey
 
I'm sure you'd have all sorts of technicalities why it doesn't count as mainline or isn't a "megamix" but Super Mario Maker seems like it fits this bill for Mario as well as Nintendo will ever do it.
 
Jimmy Joe said:
Hyrule Warriors is very specifically a franchise celebration, whether it's mainline or not

We get a new Zelda game about once every 5-7 years. I can swallow Engage because I expect another one in 2026 or whenever. But if they followed up Zelda with an "anniversary game" that draws on the locations and characters of the old games the way Engage does, I wouldn't be very happy
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Maybe if they make the "megamix" an outsource job like Three Houses was (despite that not being a megamix), it could work.

Jimmy Joe said:
But I don't think that's anything we have to worry about with Zelda or Mario. Their franchise celebration games tend to be more about theming or have specific sections dedicated to the celebration, like Skyward Sword and Mario Odyssey
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Good point, but maybe more than one section dedicated to the celebration could be a good compromise.

Stopdoor said:
I'm sure you'd have all sorts of technicalities why it doesn't count as mainline or isn't a "megamix" but Super Mario Maker seems like it fits this bill for Mario as well as Nintendo will ever do it.
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm just wondering if such an approach can work for the 3D games or even a mix of the 2D and 3D games.
 
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Quillion said:
By that logic, every sequel in every series ever is one.
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kirby is very much the exception to most franchises when it comes to this kind of thing. the last 4 entries in the series prior to star allies had been about reintroducing characters, plot elements and ideas from older games, star allies was merely the culmination of that build-up.

at the same time, take a look at something like mass attack, which is just oozing with callbacks and guest characters as a better example of this kind of thing. out of nowhere and for no particular reason, there's a bunch of tributes and guest appearances from all over the franchise, completely self-contained to that one game.
 
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Boyfriend said:
kirby is very much the exception to most franchises when it comes to this kind of thing. the last 4 entries in the series prior to star allies had been about reintroducing characters, plot elements and ideas from older games, star allies was merely the culmination of that build-up.

at the same time, take a look at something like mass attack, which is just oozing with callbacks and guest characters as a better example of this kind of thing
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Yes, but RTDL recontextualized those ideas, not outright repeated them like Dark Matter or Nightmare coming back or breaking the Crystal again.

TD and PR had the Dimension Mirror and Star Dream being a Nova, sure, but those revelations didn't really have big roles in the games.

Even in SA, the Dream Friends aren't really that relevant either, and they're more like cool free DLC than anything.
 
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Stopdoor said:
I'm sure you'd have all sorts of technicalities why it doesn't count as mainline or isn't a "megamix" but Super Mario Maker seems like it fits this bill for Mario as well as Nintendo will ever do it.
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Definitely. Mario Maker seems like it's it.

Maybe...Paper Mario? I dunno. I could see a Paper Mario game being super reference heavy I suppose.

Maybe something like Wario Ware. That could lend itself to being a huge compilation of previous games.
 
Yamanoi said:
I want more games like Fire Emblem Engage and less like Kirby Star Allies.
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I'd like a game like Kirby Star Allies but with actually good level design. Seriously, the fact that it has the best ability mechanics in the series plus the bland level design makes the former seem like a waste.

And Forgotten Land didn't fix the problem for me because it has the exact opposite problem.
 
Quillion said:
And Forgotten Land didn't fix the problem for me because it has the exact opposite problem.
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I feel like I've seen you use that exact line elsewhere, so I can't help but ask. What do you mean? I thought both the abilities and the level design were great, and perfectly suited to each other.
 
It’s weird that you’re excluding Hyrule Warriors, because that was the perfect way to execute this type of concept in my opinion. A spinoff handled by another developer is a much stronger fit than a mainline entry.

I can’t comment on Star Allies considering that I haven’t played it, but I don’t want the Engage template to be copied over to any other main Nintendo IP. Stick to entirely new games and ideas or remakes of past titles, melding them together isn’t the way to go.
 
Dizzle said:
I feel like I've seen you use that exact line elsewhere, so I can't help but ask. What do you mean? I thought both the abilities and the level design were great, and perfectly suited to each other.
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Given the wide variety of abilities in RtDL to SA plus the wide variety of moves within each ability, I found FL's low number of abilities each with a low number of moves to be wanting.

Sure, one can say that FL needed to de-focus on the ability moves because it was doing a lot of initial experimentation with Kirby in 3D, but the final Morpho Knight Sword upgrade showed that abilities absolutely can have a greater variety of moves even in 3D.

I don't know, I just think that without more varied abilities, FL is just a standard linear platformer with a cool aesthetic.

Thunder84 said:
It’s weird that you’re excluding Hyrule Warriors, because that was the perfect way to execute this type of concept in my opinion. A spinoff handled by another developer is a much stronger fit than a mainline entry.
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It's one way to handle it, but as I keep saying, Sonic Generations handles being a mainline game remixing direct ideas from previous games very well.
 
TBH, I think we just shouldn't do it anymore. Star Allies and Engage suffer for focusing on that. Like was said, Hyrule Warriors was a better way to do it, or maybe do a Mario Generations, with a level from each Mario game 2D/3D style (that'd be kinda sick ngl).
 
As for Zelda:
I wanna argue that Breath of the Wild, while not a game full of "member this old thing from game x?"-moments, was kind of a celebration of past entries? It was basically a Zelda 1 in 3D and had some references to old stuff with character names or buildings looking similar. There's a reason a popular fan theory is that BOTW is a unification of the various Zelda timelines.
And I don't really want them to go more explicit than that and I can't really think of a way to handle it without the game lacking its own identity. The first Hyrule Warriors was a fun romp and did a really great job at that.

For Mario:
As others already said, something akin to Galaxy with differently themed planets could maybe work... or something like Sonic Generations but Mario :'D
 
oomoepoo said:
As for Zelda:
I wanna argue that Breath of the Wild, while not a game full of "member this old thing from game x?"-moments, was kind of a celebration of past entries? It was basically a Zelda 1 in 3D and had some references to old stuff with character names or buildings looking similar. There's a reason a popular fan theory is that BOTW is a unification of the various Zelda timelines.
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While the Ocarina of Time 2.0 point is a bit overplayed, id argue this is Twilight Princess much more than Breath of the Wild. Twilight Princess constantly pays homage to past Zelda games. It probably reveals that you're the chosen one faster than any 3D Zelda, because it knows you know what kind of story this is gonna be and doesn't try to act like its something new. It has the temple of time from Ocarina with the same exact song, and even places that temple in a forest where Link gets the master sword in an area that is basically the same as A Link to the Past's. It has a dungeon that is almost literally remaking a Wind Waker dungeon with the same gameplay concept, and even the core game mechanic is not that different from Majora's Mask (form switching) and to an extent A Link to the Past (the dark world).
 
I don’t really like either of these games and would be pretty happy if we stopped getting these mega mixes going forward.
 
Zelda has such a wide variety of styles, both gameplay and visual, that a “mix” type of game would work very well as a mainline title.

Nintendo pretty much has the perfect multiverse with Zelda, so let me play a game where it’s Spider-Man No Way Home but with the Links.
 
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My main reason for why this is the first time, since I recall, that a Fire Emblem game is not in my priority list. I got the collectors edition but feel no urge to play it, not even the slightest. Just finished Nier Automata and started OTII, then Ryza 3 and then Zelda and then who knows, probably not FE
 
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Mario Party Superstars is pretty much this. Best Mario Party in years because of it! Don't know what else I'd want in this style. In general I'd prefer new stuff.

Dusa said:
TBH, I think we just shouldn't do it anymore. Star Allies and Engage suffer for focusing on that. Like was said, Hyrule Warriors was a better way to do it, or maybe do a Mario Generations, with a level from each Mario game 2D/3D style (that'd be kinda sick ngl).
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I love all the stuff in Engage though! I can hang out with Edelgard and Corrin while dressed up like Lucina, but with a big cute ribbon on my head! Oh, and Soren's got some really cute dialogue with Ike! There's still plenty of new stuff too, so I ended up really happy with it.

I actually like your Mario idea! As long as it includes both Mario Lands, that is...
 
Clov said:
Mario Party Superstars is pretty much this. Best Mario Party in years because of it! Don't know what else I'd want in this style. In general I'd prefer new stuff.



I love all the stuff in Engage though! I can hang out with Edelgard and Corrin while dressed up like Lucina, but with a big cute ribbon on my head! Oh, and Soren's got some really cute dialogue with Ike! There's still plenty of new stuff too, so I ended up really happy with it.

I actually like your Mario idea! As long as it includes both Mario Lands, that is...
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Of course, we'd get Sarasa Land in 3D
 
Dusa said:
TBH, I think we just shouldn't do it anymore. Star Allies and Engage suffer for focusing on that. Like was said, Hyrule Warriors was a better way to do it, or maybe do a Mario Generations, with a level from each Mario game 2D/3D style (that'd be kinda sick ngl).
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There's still the whole issue about just 3D Mario being in different "styles" on its own, with its linear games and its "open level" games.
 
Quillion said:
There's still the whole issue about just 3D Mario being in different "styles" on its own, with its linear games and its "open level" games.
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I mean all you gotta do is adapt the levels to be more restrictive. 2D levels would also be more open presumably. It'd be interesting to see an open world take on 1-1.
 
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Quillion said:
Given the wide variety of abilities in RtDL to SA plus the wide variety of moves within each ability, I found FL's low number of abilities each with a low number of moves to be wanting.

Sure, one can say that FL needed to de-focus on the ability moves because it was doing a lot of initial experimentation with Kirby in 3D, but the final Morpho Knight Sword upgrade showed that abilities absolutely can have a greater variety of moves even in 3D.

I don't know, I just think that without more varied abilities, FL is just a standard linear platformer with a cool aesthetic.
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Hmm, I see where you're coming from, especially when it comes to the number of abilities. But lately I've been playing Return to Dreamland and while I enjoy it, I'm seeing the cracks in the "Super Star fighting game inputs" version of copy abilities. At their worst, they're just a distraction and the variety they provide is empty. I try to use a range of moves, but nothing in the actual level design pushes me to do so outside of the copy ability challenge rooms.

By stripping down the copy abilities almost back to Adventure levels, FL allows for much more focus on puzzle solving. That's why Mouthful Mode fits in so well, because they're basically copy abilities but only available within a limited puzzle/platforming space.

Also, Kirby combat (outside of bosses) has never been all that interesting so nothing is lost without 12 different similar sword moves, 10 of which you won't use anyway. And with bosses, the simplified copy abilities are also a boon. Kirby bosses can get chaotic with the spamming of all the different moves, but simplified abilities and the excellent (if easy) dodge mechanic puts the focus back on learning from and responding to the bosses's moves.

Super Star is still one of my favorite games, but I would honestly be fine if the next 3D Kirby kept the simplified abilities and just added some more, along with whatever Mouthful-esque gimmick they come up with.
 
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