Discussion The Nintendo Switch Saved Metroid - IGN

[Aurc]

Switch 2 will save Donkey Kong.

Yes, please continue to Trust The Process and believe in Retro Studios. Thank you.

 

[Yamanoi]

Yes, please continue to Trust The Process and believe in Retro Studios. Thank you.

 

[Rychu_Supadude]

Our time is coming.

We'll see who has the last laugh when the Star Fox movie comes out in 2040

 

[Irene]

Ahhhh more Top 1 Metroid Prime 2 praise, yes!!

it really perfects what was already phenomenal in MP1. Gameplay loop, mechanics and abilities, combat, atmosphere, vibes, concept.

If a random person asks me what my favorite game of all-time is, I usually say Prime 1. If someone that I expect knows the Metroid series a little better asks, I tell them the truth. Here’s to Beyond being Echoes-like in all the right ways

Everyone, Metroid fan or not, needs to experience Sanctuary Fortress and Quadraxis at least once in their lives.

I’ll lose my damn mind if any area in Beyond will wow me to that absurd extent.

 

[Aether]

Yeah I think it’s less a case of ‘Switch did it with some help from 3DS’ and more ‘Samus Returns on 3DS reintroduced Metroid’, to the point where plenty of early adopters on Switch were complaining that it was a 3DS game and not a Switch one in 2017.

IGN’s take is hilarious in downplaying the 3DS game in order to sell its headline


It’s like ‘the series was all but missing. Other than that critically acclaimed remake that paved the way for Dread that was inconveniently on the system we don’t want to talk about in a ‘Switch saved it’ article’. Lol.

It just baffles me how many people forget m2sr and how many where surprised that mercury steam did so well... When we got a good to great first try that only needed refinement and iteration (and a better controller then the 3ds was for their idea)

 

[Razgriz]

It just baffles me how many people forget m2sr and how many where surprised that mercury steam did so well... When we got a good to great first try that only needed refinement and iteration (and a better controller then the 3ds was for their idea)

M2SR generally is a game that went from having an insanely good launch reception with a very sharp decline afterwards. For their first outing, it was pretty good but with some really rough edges (their control scheme for SR was ass; they tried to do the Fusion/ZM streamlined input approach whilst having Super degrees of upgrades.)

They also completely failed the core emotional beat of the game with how the infant Metroid is handled since it's effectively a post-game cleanup powerup and the replacement of the final contemplative stretch with pointlessly adding a Ridley fight to the one main series game he wasn't in yet.

It's forgotten largely because SR had to compete with AM2R, whose more "closer to ZM" style approach whilst adding light Prime elements (scan visor) and more unique bosses to make the Metroid fights less monotone ultimately made for the better game.

 

[Rampo360]

Nintendo shifting focus on their loyal customers and fans saved it imo.

 

[Aether]

M2SR generally is a game that went from having an insanely good launch reception with a very sharp decline afterwards. For their first outing, it was pretty good but with some really rough edges (their control scheme for SR was ass; they tried to do the Fusion/ZM streamlined input approach whilst having Super degrees of upgrades.)

They also completely failed the core emotional beat of the game with how the infant Metroid is handled since it's effectively a post-game cleanup powerup and the replacement of the final contemplative stretch with pointlessly adding a Ridley fight to the one main series game he wasn't in yet.

It's forgotten largely because SR had to compete with AM2R, whose more "closer to ZM" style approach whilst adding light Prime elements (scan visor) and more unique bosses to make the Metroid fights less monotone ultimately made for the better game.

Oh I'm not saying it was a masterpiece. Depending on the day it's a 7.5 or an 8.

Pretty much all criticism was on point (Ridley pointless, controlled sometimes ass cause of the lacking second stick, emotional part with the baby Metroid missed, to reliant on MP style atmospheric sounds compared to older entries, and way to cumbersome to traverse fast cause it was was to reliant of the counter.

But the thing was: none of them where breaking. All of them would either be fine or great depending on taking feedback in or not.
And they did, for pretty much all aspects. (Except the music, that's just ass in dread imho). Controls is now what they tried to get in the remake, the story works way better, boss battles are an evolution that is way better with the refined controls...
M2SR was: they have a grasp and the fundamentals, let's see what they can do from their own accord with feedback and a better platform.

Let me say it this way:
a) does dread do much mew, or is most of it an iteration on m2sr ideas?
b) how would metroids perception be now if dread would have been ms's first outing with all the problems that m2sr had?
An ok Metroid and a rebook of 4s development, people would be less optimistic (then again remaster did good on that front)

 

[Christo750]

Yeah Samus Returns was important but for sure the Switch is the the best platform for Metroid by nature of it being the Switch, having such an active install base. The series has never felt more relevant, IMO. I think the Switch could've done the same for a lot of other franchises too.

I am also in the camp of Metroid was never dead, but it's just nice to see it so present again.

 

[Aether]

Yeah Samus Returns was important but for sure the Switch is the the best platform for Metroid by nature of it being the Switch, having such an active install base. The series has never felt more relevant, IMO. I think the Switch could've done the same for a lot of other franchises too.

I am also in the camp of Metroid was never dead, but it's just nice to see it so present again.

It wasn't as far as fire emblem before awakening, but with 2 not so hot games (sales, reception) and it being hard to make them ...

(Rarely have I seen first party games in the bargain bin for 5€, but with those 2 I have ...)

 

[Razgriz]

But the thing was: none of them where breaking. All of them would either be fine or great depending on taking feedback in or not.
And they did, for pretty much all aspects. (Except the music, that's just ass in dread imho). Controls is now what they tried to get in the remake, the story works way better, boss battles are an evolution that is way better with the refined controls...
M2SR was: they have a grasp and the fundamentals, let's see what they can do from their own accord with feedback and a better platform.

Disagree on Story but I don't like Dreads story in the first place. But yeah, you're right on most other things; Metroid is one of the best action platformers on the Switch right now. The main shortcomings of Dread are largely inherited from their work on M2SR and a lot of it got smoothed over by Dread. (Main changes for the better are less reliance on Melee counter, better use of 360 degree aiming and more streamlined movement than SRs button overload).

For the next game, what I'd like to see them improve on is atmospheric design and non-linearity, both Dread and SR have completely forgettable environments that blend together; there's nothing quite as strong as Super/Fusion/ZMs area differences in those games.

 

[Christo750]

It wasn't as far as fire emblem before awakening, but with 2 not so hot games (sales, reception) and it being hard to make them ...

(Rarely have I seen first party games in the bargain bin for 5€, but with those 2 I have ...)

i remember it was discounted heavily at gamestop before too long, and it was like 2 or so months after it got its 6.75 review from Game Informer, which GS supplied and was partnered with. but tbh, I still like Metroid Other M, and hope they give a third person 3D Metroid another chance.

 

[Midway-AGNC-]

I may never understand why it's impossible to bring up Metroid anywhere on the internet without people mentioning sales. I don't think I've ever seen any game franchise's sales get discussed nearly as often as it happens with Metroid.

It doesn't sell Mario numbers, but it doesn't sell badly either. And either way, it doesn't matter, because sales have absolutely no bearing on whether Nintendo will continue the series or not. Yet you have people on the internet trying to spin 3 million units as a death knell for the series, as if Nintendo is going to shove it into an open grave any second now.

I don't understand it at all.

It's the same thing for Star Fox, F-Zero and pretty much any other dormant Nintendo franchise. Inside fanboy's head, Nintendo can do no wrong, even if that means downplaying their own franchises to prove Nintendo is flawless. It's pathetic.

 

[Rampo360]

It's forgotten largely because SR had to compete with AM2R, whose more "closer to ZM" style approach whilst adding light Prime elements (scan visor) and more unique bosses to make the Metroid fights less monotone ultimately made for the better game.

I think it was forgotten because when it released Switch was becoming a hit. It was kinda big news wen revealed on E3, then it released and people soon forgot about it. Pity they never ported it on Switch, it's one of my most wanted 3DS games on Switch.

 

[Aether]

Disagree on Story but I don't like Dreads story in the first place. But yeah, you're right on most other things; Metroid is one of the best action platformers on the Switch right now. The main shortcomings of Dread are largely inherited from their work on M2SR and a lot of it got smoothed over by Dread. (Main changes for the better are less reliance on Melee counter, better use of 360 degree aiming and more streamlined movement than SRs button overload).

For the next game, what I'd like to see them improve on is atmospheric design and non-linearity, both Dread and SR have completely forgettable environments that blend together; there's nothing quite as strong as Super/Fusion/ZMs area differences in those games.

Oh dread is not. 10 for me. Story is fine for what it is, but I have to be honest, metroids story was never...good. (best probably M2 and after that super).
Areas: step up from remake, but not yet distinct. Emmi's where a joke and kind of a more boring SAx. Music was forgettable. Still one of the best recent 2D action games.

i remember it was discounted heavily at gamestop before too long, and it was like 2 or so months after it got its 6.75 review from Game Informer, which GS supplied and was partnered with. but tbh, I still like Metroid Other M, and hope they give a third person 3D Metroid another chance.

Yeah, it's flawed, story is crap, but it has enough redeemable to be played (6.5-7 is probably a fair score for how flawed it is)

 

[Christo750]

Yeah, it's flawed, story is crap, but it has enough redeemable to be played (6.5-7 is probably a fair score for how flawed it is)

I remember giving it a 9.75 when I played it in 2010, but now it’s the perfect example of “swimming in 7’s”

 

[Aether]

I remember giving it a 9.75 when I played it in 2010, but now it’s the perfect example of “swimming in 7’s”

There is stuff that's obviously bad (story), there is stuff that's average to good (music), visuals are perfectly reasonable for Wii, if somewhat uninspired. I liked the Ridley storyline, the battle system could be fun... But had some nasty flaws.

It definitely felt like a "super mario 3d world" take on Metroid in terms of gameplay.

 

[Christo750]

There is stuff that's obviously bad (story), there is stuff that's average to good (music), visuals are perfectly reasonable for Wii, if somewhat uninspired. I liked the Ridley storyline, the battle system could be fun... But had some nasty flaws.

It definitely felt like a "super mario 3d world" take on Metroid in terms of gameplay.

Interesting comparison and I'd say you're pretty close; it's basically the newer Ninja Gaiden games with a Metroid skin. Happy to hear you say you liked the Ridley storyline; that was such a huge point of contention when it came out and tbh I like it and get it. It's believable that she would hit a breaking point seeing him live after supposedly killing him so many times. People thought it literally destroyed the character but idk I thought it worked.

 

[Coco98bisFR]

Other M released to underwhelming sales in the middle of a time period where many western games with similar themes, cachet and market position were having their franchises cancelled for not meeting insanely bloated sales expectations. (Also known as "the mid budget western videogame stopped existing".)

People were (perhaps wrongly) expecting that Metroid Other Ms underwhelming sales overall contrasted with it's fairly obviously higher development budget compared to the 2D games (which it was marketing itself as a successor to, not the Prime games) meant that it effectively damned the Metroid franchise to the same fate.

Federation Force's announcement in 2015 did little to assuage that issue with fans, since that was also right in the same time period in which Nintendo released several awful spinoffs back-to-back in other franchises that weren't nearly as dormant.

Looking back on federation force and the post-Other M era with "why was everyone so upset" is both your hindsight being 20/20 and ignorant of the overall state of the games industry back then.

You're just using huge words to describe a simple situation. Other M is a divisive game that was released barely 3 years after Prime 3, then a 6 year gap happened, which is not that huge for most Nintendo franchises. Nintendo just wanted to try new things with Other M and Federation Force.

 

[Lugia667]

Other M not using an analog stick was so bizzare. I really don't understand that decision

 

[Dinoman96]

Other M not using an analog stick was so bizzare. I really don't understand that decision

GDC 10: Metroid Director Wanted Classic Controls - IGN

At the Game Developer Conference in San Francisco this morning, Nintendo Group Manager Yoshio Sakamoto held a panel to discuss his "unique" design style -- or rather, what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata thinks is a "unique" way of designing.

www.ign.com

Team Ninja stepped in to work on the project and was selected because the team played off the Nintendo-based team extremely well, bouncing ideas back and forth throughout the development. Sakamoto used a specific instance as an example: he insisted that the game would be an on-rails side-scrolling adventure that used the Wii remote exclusively like an NES/Famicom controller. But Team Ninja really wanted to make it a nunchuk-analog controlling game for 3D foreground/background exploration. Sakamoto stood firm on the Wii remote exclusivity. When the Team Ninja came up with an idea that could incorporate Sakamoto's Wii remote focus into a non-on-rails design, he was skeptical -- but when he finally saw what they came up with, he thought the solution was perfect. They called it "Famicom Game Plus."

Sakamoto on Metroid Other M: No Nunchuk for You - IGN

Late Friday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, I had the opportunity to talk with Metroid and WarioWare producer Yoshio Sakamoto. I used this half-hour opportunity to talk about the two upcoming projects, but I couldn't resist sneaking in a few zingers about past projects as well.

www.ign.com

Sakamoto: I want to clarify, I've seen lots of news stories out there that misinterpreted what I said about the on-rails part and may have gotten the wrong idea. What I meant, in the original concept, Samus could move back and forth but only on a fixed path, not that it was automatic movement forward constantly like in rail shooters...

Sakamoto: Ah, yes, Klonoa! Right. You got it. (laughs) I wanted to stick with the D-pad control scheme, and it was Team Ninja that found an interesting way to manage D-pad only movement in a 3D environment, and we were able to move away from that early design concept. This happened very early on, a very early stage in development.

Bascially Other M's gameplay is a fuck up of two camps wanting to do two completely different things at once: Sakamoto originally wanted to make another 2D Metroid game with a parallax scrolling gimmick (i.e Klonoa), which is where the NES styled control scheme originates from. Team Ninja on the other hand wanted to make a 3D character action game that would control with the Nunchuck. The final game tried to be both and failed at being either.

 

[Razgriz]

You're just using huge words to describe a simple situation. Other M is a divisive game that was released barely 3 years after Prime 3, then a 6 year gap happened, which is not that huge for most Nintendo franchises. Nintendo just wanted to try new things with Other M and Federation Force.

No? Let me give you the simpler version if the explanation doesn't register somehow: Other M released during a period where the western games industry was actively shuttering franchises and studios that had underperforming games. People assumed that Metroid was in the same boat. Federation Force only reinforced that idea.

This situation isn't as hindsight nice as you like to play it off as and to say so is betraying your own ignorance.

 

[Sadist]

Ha, no.

I understand what they are saying, but it’s not really like how they describe it. Other M and Federation Force are touted as examples, but I feel Nintendo themselves weren’t quite sure what to do with the series as well.

Samus Returns was a good testcase to see if classic Metroid could garner interest and more importantly, sway away attention from the MP 4 logo announcement.

I think Dread did a better job by making people interested in the series again. It helped it was well received during release. Now if you want to say, hey Metroid availability is far better now then it was in the past, sure.

 

[OctoSplattack]

You're just using huge words to describe a simple situation. Other M is a divisive game that was released barely 3 years after Prime 3, then a 6 year gap happened, which is not that huge for most Nintendo franchises. Nintendo just wanted to try new things with Other M and Federation Force.

I feel like it's important to remember that Metroid was a constant presence during the 2000s. It wasn't a "one per console" thing like Mario Kart or Animal Crossing. Metroid fans during that decade saw a new Metroid release almost every year, and I imagine many of them weren't ready to see the series just skip an entire console generation while Nintendo sat back and reassessed where to go with the franchise after Other M.

 

[Evil Lucario]

Samus Returns saved it in all honesty, without Samus Returns we wouldn't have gotten Dread to springboard off of.

 

[Coco98bisFR]

No? Let me give you the simpler version if the explanation doesn't register somehow: Other M released during a period where the western games industry was actively shuttering franchises and studios that had underperforming games. People assumed that Metroid was in the same boat. Federation Force only reinforced that idea.

This situation isn't as hindsight nice as you like to play it off as and to say so is betraying your own ignorance.

Hmmm okay ? I'll just say that things take time to get done and that a game isn't developed in a few months, even more a decade ago when Nintendo was struggling with the HD.

I feel like it's important to remember that Metroid was a constant presence during the 2000s. It wasn't a "one per console" thing like Mario Kart or Animal Crossing. Metroid fans during that decade saw a new Metroid release almost every year, and I imagine many of them weren't ready to see the series just skip an entire console generation while Nintendo sat back and reassessed where to go with the franchise after Other M.

Indeed, I just realized that it was almost an annual franchise during the 00's so it make more sense to be worried about a 6 year gap. Luckily this is in the past and I think 2/3 games per generation like Nintendo is currently doing is a good rhythm for a niche franchise like Metroid.

 

[NBOctoling]

It's always funny to watch people use AM2R to tear down Samus Return when the AM2R developer has stated explicitly NOT to do that. But hey, at least it's better than "Nintendo developed Samus Returns to stop AM2R from releases because they hate Metroid." and "Samus Returns had a development time of months because they wanted to kill AM2R" that was popular during Samus's Return's launch.

Honestly, Metroid fans were a BIG reason why I stopped calling myself a fan of those games and why I took so long to try AM2R.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

I love Samus Returns, it's a great game, and the unfair maligning it got around launch was undeserved. I am gad people have started to since come around on it.

 

[Aether]

I love Samus Returns, it's a great game, and the unfair maligning it got around launch was undeserved. I am gad people have started to since come around on it.

Did they? To me the perception seems to be the same

 

[Aurc]

I love Samus Returns, it's a great game, and the unfair maligning it got around launch was undeserved. I am gad people have started to since come around on it.

I didn't play it until 2021, but I thought it was extremely solid. Made me confident that Dread would be great, which it was. True free aiming and the melee counter are two of my favorite MercurySteam additions to 2D Metroid.

 

[Aether]

I didn't play it until 2021, but I thought it was extremely solid. Made me confident that Dread would be great, which it was. True free aiming and the melee counter are two of my favorite MercurySteam additions to 2D Metroid.

Yeahm both did work sub optimal and where the source of a lot of frustration back then, but even then it was clear to me:
The first sucked cause of the hardware (no 2 sticks, resolution for proper aim)
The second cause of balancing (fine tune, standing still for the counter, battles to reliant on it)

Dread fixed all of them.

 

[Magic-Man]

I love Samus Returns, it's a great game, and the unfair maligning it got around launch was undeserved. I am gad people have started to since come around on it.

People were mad at Samus Returns? I always thought it was loved for returning to series roots, even if it did come at the cost of AM2R.

 

[Charamiwa]

Before Dread came out there was definitely a league of Mercury Steam haters than couldn't forgive them for the Castlevania 3DS game and weren't impressed with Samus Returns. There was some skepticism going around even after the Dread reveal and this idea that Mercury Steam hadn't made a good game yet.

Well I suppose there's still some haters out there but Dread minimized it for sure.

 

[Gengar]

People were mad at Samus Returns? I always thought it was loved for returning to series roots, even if it did come at the cost of AM2R.

I wasn't on any of these forums at the time, but I saw a lot of complaining on social media about it being on 3DS instead of switch. Not so much hating the game itself, just the choice of platform. It reviewed well, and people who played it generally enjoyed it - myself included!