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Discussion The Line: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Plagiarism

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The year is 2012.

I, a fresh-faced twenty something who was actually just literally twenty years old, am in a convention hall full to the brim with all kinds of video game paraphernalia. Over in the corner is a Capcom employee handing out full-sized shields to promote Dragon’s Dogma, a humble little action RPG that seemed destined to be a cult hit from the very moment it was announced. In another section is a larger than life display for Borderlands 2, a game with writing so bad that every single member of its writing staff would later be tried for insurrection against their profession. A swarm of bodies is waiting to play Firefall, a game I only bring up to earn brownie points for remembering something you definitely forgot.

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Image courtesy of Polygon

Tucked in between all of that hustle and bustle is a (oddly comfortable) model of a bus torn asunder by an explosive device. Inside the damaged vessel, a couple of men will soon tell me that they are making a new Spec-Ops, which I regard as an especially terrible idea. Did you play the PlayStation Spec-Ops games? They were kind of like what I imagine SOCOM to have been if it was rendered by a smart refrigerator and then retold to you by some friends in an elaborate game of telephone. This game was different, one of the men, Cory Davis, told me. It wasn’t like those games. It was like that book, The Heart of Darkness. You know, that book you probably read for your independent reading assignment in high school? The one that you definitely didn’t give up on after 20 pages to play World of Warcraft, reasoning that you could probably get enough of the gist of it from Sparknotes to write a passable essay? Yeah, that one.

Spec-Ops: The Line, as it was called, was heavily inspired by the seminal work of Joseph Conrad. It was a prototypical six out of ten elevated to an implausible 77 out of 100 (7.7 out of ten, for those who like consistency and also dislike the particularness of some mathematicians (I don’t apologize for my people)) by a likeness to a book that a large percentage of the audience probably didn’t read but had probably heard of (or at least watched Apocalypse Now). It is also a great case study in this, the age of Palworld, a game that is “inspired by” Pokemon in a way that many here find to be off-putting and many others not here find to be kind of fun, maybe.

a-controversy-of-palworld-developers-that-has-copied-the-v0-9n62ljg7btdc1.jpg


There is clearly a line between inspiration and plagiarism, but where is the line between inspiration that upsets an industry and inspiration that makes an industry shrug and say, “Who cares? It’s fun!”.

I am here to find that (Spec-Ops: The) line.

(I’m going to put a line below each section, too; feel free to find that line if you would like a more beginner-friendly line-finding experience)




Finding the Line

If you didn’t read the above introduction, the goal here is as such: I want to find the line between acceptable and unacceptable inspiration, or “inspiration”, in media, specifically video games. To find this line, I have selected three examples to explore:
  • One game that's obvious inspirations made it an agreeable punching bag.
  • One game that’s obvious inspirations were central to its identity but deemed acceptable.
  • One game that’s obvious inspirations were noted but ultimately shrugged off completely because everyone was having a good time.
My hope in exploring two extremes and a middle ground is to find that line, which one would assume lies somewhere in the middle but in all likelihood exists a little closer to one of the two extremes. Is inspiration only a problem if it is especially brazen, or does that even matter? Is the public reception of works inspired by other works only a matter of how good or bad the game is perceived to be? In other words, do people only care about perceived plagiarism when the product in question is considered to be poor?

The answer to that last question is yes, by the way. I know you should never start a project like this with preconceived notions in favor of one of the many possible conclusions of your exploration, but who are we kidding here? I have a bias. Let’s acknowledge it now and see if it changes by the end of this experiment!




The Punching Bag

Zoomers don’t even know what it was like to play video games in the golden age of The Simpsons. You couldn’t walk five feet without tripping over a licensed piece of shovelware shat out in the hopes that fans of America’s favorite family would put aside their good sensibilities and part with a sizable sum of cash. Remember Bart vs. the Space Mutants? Virtual Bart? The Simpsons Wrestling? Unfortunately, I do remember renting and playing each of every one of these like it was a sacred pilgrimage that must be made.

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Image courtesy of Eurogamer

In 2000, work commenced on yet another entry into Matt Groening’s (unfortunately) eternal canon: The Simpsons: Road Rage. Originally being developed as a kart racer ala, um, Konami Krazy Racers, Road Rage was an attempt to get Homer and crew off the mat (literally) and into a more appealing venue that might actually get copies to fly off non-discounted shelves. According to an oral history of the game’s development written by Inverse’s Brian VanHooker, the approachable kart racer (think, um, Pac-Man World Rally?) was nixed when Matt Groening himself groaned (Groened?) about how every other mascot in the world had a kart racer. Even Cubix! Additionally, as Road Rage producer John Melchoir notes in VanHooker’s article, kart racing is a solitary act, and humor wouldn’t flow naturally with just one person in the car. Thus, the team went back to their idea hole and dug out the most tried and true idea of all time: Plagiarism!

Crazy Taxi is a bonafide AAAA ten out of ten experience for the SEGA Dreamcast that anyone with sufficient taste has on their personal Mount Rushmore of games scored by The Offspring. It was in arcades prior to its Dreamcast release in 2000, giving the teams at FOX Interactive and Radical Entertainment plenty of time to scope out its quality. Scope they did, as The Simpson’s: Road Rage is the kind of software you would expect to get if you sucked all the B.D. Joe out of Crazy Taxi and replaced it with the cast of an already declining animated sitcom. Everything you knew and loved about the best ride sharing game ever made was here, except for polish and The Offspring. Even the patented directional arrow at the top of the screen made the cut!

Reviewers savaged the game, labeling it as the cheap imitation that even the developers acknowledged it was (eventually). Metacritic has the game at a 64 on the lead platform (and, inexplicably, a 67 on the Gamecube), and you would be hard pressed to CTRL+F that page without finding at least a couple dozen mentions of Crazy Taxi. The obvious similarities would ultimately lead to a lawsuit between SEGA and FOX Entertainment, with a settlement for an undisclosed amount of money being reached outside of court. Whatever the amount was, Michael Pole recounted in Brian VanHooker’s aforementioned oral history that it wasn’t enough to offset the game’s financial success.

“...we had a great lawyer who fought tooth and nail and, at the end of the day, there was a number that was paid to Sega that was insignificant to the money that was generated by the game and everyone moved on. Sega came for their pound of flesh, but I think they walked away with a quarter-pound instead.” - Michael Pole, Former Senior Vice President of Product Development at FOX Interactive (via Inverse)

So, Road Rage was a success! A success with a black eye, but a success nonetheless. At the very least, some fragment of justice was served in the court of public opinion and in the literal courts. Well, I guess it was settled out of court, but I’m sure lawyers were there so that’s kind of like court. Whatever!



The Appropriate Homage

There I was on that showroom floor, face-to-face with a true blue game designer in a makeship exploded bus. I can’t tell you how many times he mentioned Heart of Darkness. Well, I could if I still had my voice recorder, or even if I was willing to dig up a link to the article I wrote about my interview with Cory Davis (I tried; the domain was sold and I refuse to consult the Wayback Machine!). The point is: He mentioned the book a lot! If I came away from my time on the showfloor with Yager Development with anything, it was that the developers of Spec-Ops: The Line were literate.

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Anyways: Spec-Ops: The Line and Heart of Darkness. How much inspiration was there? My friend, the game’s answer to Colonel Kurtz is named John Konrad! Like the author of Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad! That shit might as well have been slapped on the cover next to the ESRB rating.

This openness was met with, well, fine reception. It wasn’t the best game. It also wasn’t the worst game! Critics noted its heavy-handed inspiration, with Eurogamer’s Christopher Donlan even referring to it as occasionally “smothering” in his review. Though the connection to classic literature merited numerous mentions, those mentions typically erred on the side of favorable: Spec-Ops was at the very least transformative, taking the classic tale of European colonialism and making it a slightly less classic tale of American occupation.

In the end, Spec-Ops got off easy for its depiction of Joseph Conrad’s work because the developers never pretended it was anything else. They cited the novel as a major inspiration and used it to tell something resembling a unique story. A heavy-handed story that paled in comparison to that which I imagine the novel told (remember: Sparknotes!), but a unique enough story nonetheless.

It also helps that the game was, you know, functional! Unlike The Simpsons: Road Rage, the design was competent enough that some fun could possibly be extracted if you were psychopathic enough to look past the game's ham-fisted reminders that you, the player, were bad.




The Shrug

2017 was a big year for Nintendo, as I’m sure anyone unfortunate enough to have clicked on this thread remembers (hi, @chocolate_supra !). It was a pretty big year for other publishers, too! After all, that was the year that the unstoppable behemoth that is Fortnite: Battle Royale was unleashed upon our world’s youth. You might recall, though, that Fortnite was not alone in battling its royales.

PUBG-mobile.jfif


PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds (or PUBG: Battlegrounds, as it’s known now for whatever fucking reason) swept through the industry like annoying sidekicks through the Sonic the Hedgehog series (still there, @chocolate_supra ?). You couldn’t visit any landing page for any media outlet covering video games without seeing the recognizably dull visuals of fatigued men hopping out of planes and duking it out in the wild. Though not the first of its kind (PlayerUnknown developed a mod for ARMA 2 and consulted on H1Z1), PUBG popularized a number of concepts that would go on to define the genre: Hopping out of a flying vehicle of some kind! A rapidly-shrinking circle that makes life Hell for anyone who exists outside its vicinity! Overly long bouts of looting that end when a twelve year old who is staying home from school sneaks up on you with a shotgun! These ideas were so beloved that they became the basis for another game from another publisher: Epic’s Fortnite: Battle Royale.

In case you don’t remember (and you would be totally forgiven for forgetting), Fortnite began its life vaguely imitating Minecraft before vanishing into the ether for a long enough time that emailers to Giant Bomb’s Giant Bombcast jokingly announced its cancellation (citation needed, but I promise it happened). After PUBG’s surprisingly impactful debut in 2017, Fortnite reemerged as a battle royale game of its own. Fortnite: Battle Royale saw players jump out of a flying bus to fight it out in the wild while a rapidly-diminishing circular region corralled them together for one last showdown. Games of Fortnite typically ended when a twelve year old staying home from school snuck up on players with a shotgun.

Hey! What the fuck! I already wrote that joke. Epic! You literally just made PUBG! You bastards!

Oh, there’s crafting. Problem solved! Proceed.

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Likely due to its cartoonish designs and low price (“free”), Fortnite completely overtook PUBG and became the biggest damn video game released in the new Millenium. PUBG sued Epic Games to no avail, and its star dimmed while the victor gorged itself like one of those gluttonous Lumas in Super Mario Galaxy. Though there was certainly some public sentiment that what Fortnite did was, as the kids say, “fucked”, those concerns have largely been washed away by the tide of a society completely willing to shrug off plagiarism if it means they can still kill their friends while dressed as a Funko-fied version of Goku from DragonBall Z.

It’s also worth mentioning that Epic Games has been sued multiple times for using dance moves popularized by a number of different professionals, but who cares? The Carlton Dance is now nothing more than a silly emote your murderous Sportsmate can perform after shotgunning some stupid adult who had the audacity to download a free game for children to play in their free time.




The Conclusion

I already told you my conclusion! Plagiarism only matters when a game is bad, ala The Simpsons: Road Rage. When a game is fun, it's an understandable imitation that speaks to a developer’s ability to apply existing concepts in a new and engaging format. Yeah, Fortnite blatantly infringed on PlayerUnknown’s most known property, but where else can you “Hit the Griddy” after epically owning some defaults with your gussied up virtual body pillow? Yes, Palworld liberally borrows from the biggest intellectual property known to man, but it’s kind of fun so lay off, you prude! Why do you have to rain on our parade? Just because we borrowed all of the floats from the parade a town away? Fuck off, old man!

Seriously, though: This is weird! I know everybody watched that Hbomberguy video. Youtube told me! We all watched and nodded in agreement as Harrison reminded us about Filip Miucin, the pathetic influencer who completely cribbed content from other content creators to elevate his own profile. We all tutted about the Internet Historian and his reappropriation of a story that wasn’t his to tell. We all shook our fists at James Somerton, even if we had no idea who that was! As a people, we all gathered around the glow of our computers and agreed that plagiarism was bad, actually, and that our society was better off for calling it out wherever it occurred.

And now?

Plagiarism is fine, actually. You see, games like Palworld are a miracle. The developers took existing intellectual property and twisted it to make the very important observation that it would be silly if Pikachu had a gun. It’s stealing, sure, but it’s stealing that made me have a good time, so it doesn’t matter. My personal enjoyment is the most important denominator in this equation.

In summary, the line is exactly where I thought it was. It may as well not even exist, as we already have a much more objective barometer that measures the exact same thing: Metacritic. Or Opencritic, I guess. Is Game Rankings still a thing? Regardless, the line is the same line that people use to determine whether or not they are going to fork over $70 for the latest AAA fuck fest: Is the game good? An answer in the negative begets cries of copyright infringement, lazy developers, plagiarism, et al. An answer in the affirmative begets celebratory Xeets and an army of players willing to carry water for a zany tale of swords, sorcery, and slavery.

Sigh. Another evening wasted answering a question I already answered myself six hours ago.I should have just saved myself time and copied my work from a better writer.

Hbomberguy, if you’re reading this: Call me.
 
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Great post!

I agree. I’m in it to have fun so as long as no one is getting hurt, I don’t mind.

I own TWO Robopon games as well as the aforementioned Konami Krazy Racers (which slaps).

I haven’t played The Simpsons: Road Rage. Is it really that bad? How does it compare to The Simpsons: Hit and Run?
 
I think you might have missed the point of this thread just a little bit. I think the line went over your head.
Did I? Or did you quote a shitpost and take it seriously?

OP has the following line:

There is clearly a line between inspiration and plagiarism, but where is the line between inspiration that upsets an industry and inspiration that makes an industry shrug and say, “Who cares? It’s fun!”.

Or am I now quoting you shitposting and taking it seriously? I need to lie down and count to 10.

I was serious about The Simpsons: Road Rage question though.
 
That's a super post and I think the question of where the line is is the essential one. But for me, I don't think any of those examples constitute what I'd call plagiarism.

It should be noted that Sega sued for breach of a utility patent, rather than breach of copyright, which would be the typical recourse to plagiarism.

And I personally feel that game design ideas shouldn't be patentable in the first place. If a new game design paradigm finds favour with the public, it's essential that others are able to use it too, or the entire industry would be stifled.

For those not familiar, a patent is basically deal you make with the government regarding a "new" invention or design process, where in exchange for disclosing how your new process/invention works to the public in the patent application, you get a monopoly over it for 20 years. You can prevent people using it by legal injuction for 20 years, and sue for tortious damages if they do.

Do we really want publishers to be able to claim such a monopoly over a piece of game design? Should PUBG have been able to patent the idea of a battle royale and prevent the rise of Fortnite? Personally, I don't think so. New genres growing from hit games is the essence of a healthy, growing game culture.

See: Clones aren't killing gaming, they're saving it

GameIndustry.biz at the time presents both sides of the argument:
“Gameplay patents could arguably encourage more innovation in games and stem the flow of staid clones which follow on from every successful original title, which would certainly be a good thing. However, certain other less pleasant possibilities also arise from a verdict in Sega’s favour in this case. Imagine a world where Bungie had patented the Halo control system – generally agreed as the logical best solution to controlling FPS games on console joypads. Other developers would be forced to adopt different and almost certainly inferior control mechanisms; and the person who really lost out in the end would be the consumer.”

For me, the second half of that argument is easily more compelling than the first.

Gamasutra: "Even though the two games are undoubtedly similar, “the concept of driving around in a city where virtual people jump out of the way of your car is not exactly what Thomas Jefferson had in mind when he said that patentable inventions were to be new and useful, and you can forget about non-obvious. I also don’t think he’d be too happy that no one can make a game where you drive a car around a city with virtual people who jump out of the way…FOR TWENTY YEARS."

Simpsons Hit and Run was a perfectly acceptable adaptation of a new hit game concept in my eyes. It wasn't good, but the idea was fine. If they hadn't settled I suspect a court would have agreed. But no one ever risks that, so we'll never know.
 
This is why I really hope Nintendo/TPC take legal action, force them to get rid of the plagiarized designs at least

You can't let this kind of shit slide, you just can't. Why even have moral standards in the first place if people can just get away with doing whatever they want whenever. While this is just video games and it's not super serious or anything, the logic applies to everything.

If reprehensible behavior is met with zero consequences whatsoever, all of a sudden it's actually completely cool and valid. People will test the limit of what they can get away with further and further until they realize there is no limit when moral standards aren't being enforced
 
Insanely good post. Also, loved Road Rage as a kid lol


New Great Posts Drew living up to his name.
❤️

I didn't intend for my personal stance to be so nebulous, but I guess that's just what happens when you write the last couple of paragraphs while finishing a nice little glass of Scotch. Let's pretend it was intentional!

If you want to see how I really feel, visit the Palworld thread! Or don't! It's Hell!

@Heron , I have some responses but I just got to work and forgot I get to start my day with a meeting. I'll be back!
 
That's a super post and I think the question of where the line is is the essential one. But for me, I don't think any of those examples constitute what I'd call plagiarism.

It should be noted that Sega sued for breach of a utility patent, rather than breach of copyright, which would be the typical recourse to plagiarism.

And I personally feel that game design ideas shouldn't be patentable in the first place. If a new game design paradigm finds favour with the public, it's essential that others are able to use it too, or the entire industry would be stifled.

For those not familiar, a patent is basically deal you make with the government regarding a "new" invention or design process, where in exchange for disclosing how your new process/invention works to the public in the patent application, you get a monopoly over it for 20 years. You can prevent people using it by legal injuction for 20 years, and sue for tortious damages if they do.

Do we really want publishers to be able to claim such a monopoly over a piece of game design? Should PUBG have been able to patent the idea of a battle royale and prevent the rise of Fortnite? Personally, I don't think so. New genres growing from hit games is the essence of a healthy, growing game culture.

See: Clones aren't killing gaming, they're saving it

GameIndustry.biz at the time presents both sides of the argument:
“Gameplay patents could arguably encourage more innovation in games and stem the flow of staid clones which follow on from every successful original title, which would certainly be a good thing. However, certain other less pleasant possibilities also arise from a verdict in Sega’s favour in this case. Imagine a world where Bungie had patented the Halo control system – generally agreed as the logical best solution to controlling FPS games on console joypads. Other developers would be forced to adopt different and almost certainly inferior control mechanisms; and the person who really lost out in the end would be the consumer.”

For me, the second half of that argument is easily more compelling than the first.

Gamasutra: "Even though the two games are undoubtedly similar, “the concept of driving around in a city where virtual people jump out of the way of your car is not exactly what Thomas Jefferson had in mind when he said that patentable inventions were to be new and useful, and you can forget about non-obvious. I also don’t think he’d be too happy that no one can make a game where you drive a car around a city with virtual people who jump out of the way…FOR TWENTY YEARS."

Simpsons Hit and Run was a perfectly acceptable adaptation of a new hit game concept in my eyes. It wasn't good, but the idea was fine. If they hadn't settled I suspect a court would have agreed. But no one ever risks that, so we'll never know.
I'm back!

So here's where I stand on this: I agree that the ability to patent certain elements of game design would be problematic. The Halo example is a good one: It would be destructive to the genre as a whole if Halo was the only game that could be controlled in that specific way. That said, I do think there should be some protection for a developer's innovations. The Fortnite example is especially fucked because in my research it was mentioned that Epic had early access to PUBG due to it being made in UE4 (or something like that; I'm paraphrasing and don't want to dig back into my six hour writing process). I don't really think it's fair that another developer could almost 1:1 deliberately copy another developer's design in the same exact year. Fortnite completely ate PUBG's lunch before it could even finish putting two pieces of bread together to make a sandwich (I'm aware that PUBG is/was still successful, but I think the extent of that success could/should be dramatically different).

I think there has to be some kind of line (I teach geometry and really like lines). Should a developer be able to lock away their ideas in a tower that only they have access to in perpetuity? Maybe not. Should a developer be able to make their games without fear that a cheap knock-off could appear within a couple of months and cannibalize their market? I think so! I'm not a very creative person, but I imagine that someone who is a creative person would be devastated if their years' of work were forcibly taken from them so that a less creative person could pad their bank account.

Speaking from an idealistic standpoint, I find blatant plagiarism to be a blight on the culture. Is Road Rage a terrible game? I mean, it's not great. It's fine! But is our culture any better for its existence? Wouldn't our culture be improved if those same developers redirected the energy expended copying Crazy Taxi and used it to make a game that spoke to their capabilities? Maybe Road Rage does express the extent of their abilities. In that case, should those developers even be contributing to the industry at all? These cheap cash-ins devalue the medium and push it ever closer to being on par with cheap consumerist slop like you find in the toy aisle at any department store.

I know that nothing is going to change. Publishers are going to keep hunting and pecking around until they find the next great idea to steal, and then it will be theirs to profit off of instead of the actual artists. I think that kind of sucks, and I just wish that developers had a little more at their disposal to protect their years' of hard work. That's all!

Thanks for reading!
 
I didn't intend for my personal stance to be so nebulous, but I guess that's just what happens when you write the last couple of paragraphs while finishing a nice little glass of Scotch. Let's pretend it was intentional!

If you want to see how I really feel, visit the Palworld thread! Or don't! It's Hell!
My joke flopped (my bad) so I’ll actually reply to this seriously.

I didn’t think your stance was that nebulous. While I didn’t read the Palworld thread, using Dr. Strangelove, a well known war satire, for your thread title pointed to where your views lied. The act of using an existing title for inspiration also felt very intentional given the subject matter (or am I reading too far into that?). Also, if you really were glorifying and supporting plagiarism, I imagine this thread would have been locked immediately.

Real talk, the OP was a very good post. However, I’d be here all day if I address everything so I’ll focus on this one thing:

“Plagiarism only matters when a game is bad”

(Replace “game” with any consumable creative work)

I feel this in my bones as someone who aspires to be an aspiring writer (elaboration available upon request). The hand-waving away of plagiarism is a very real fear for anyone even dabbling in creative work. With the internet, it’s so easy to steal, hand-wave away that theft, and watch others do both. It’s exhausting. Don’t even get me started on AI art. Actually do: fuck AI “art”.

One last thing: another bit of hand-waving away that saps all the energy out of me is when people claim companies like Nintendo don’t get hurt by plagiarism because of how large they are. And like yes, companies are large. However, the people employed by companies are not, and they’re the ones who suffer when the hammer drops.

I apologize again for the weak joke. Not my best work. I really did love your post.
 
I just feel extreme second hand embarrassment when I play a game that is obviously lifting tons of elements from other games.

Like, if you're copying one mechanic, okay, that can be cool and fine. I like grappling hooks too.

Lies of P I cannot play without cringing as it copies from Bloodborne just so aggressively.
 
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I'm back!

So here's where I stand on this: I agree that the ability to patent certain elements of game design would be problematic. The Halo example is a good one: It would be destructive to the genre as a whole if Halo was the only game that could be controlled in that specific way. That said, I do think there should be some protection for a developer's innovations. The Fortnite example is especially fucked because in my research it was mentioned that Epic had early access to PUBG due to it being made in UE4 (or something like that; I'm paraphrasing and don't want to dig back into my six hour writing process). I don't really think it's fair that another developer could almost 1:1 deliberately copy another developer's design in the same exact year. Fortnite completely ate PUBG's lunch before it could even finish putting two pieces of bread together to make a sandwich (I'm aware that PUBG is/was still successful, but I think the extent of that success could/should be dramatically different).

I think there has to be some kind of line (I teach geometry and really like lines). Should a developer be able to lock away their ideas in a tower that only they have access to in perpetuity? Maybe not. Should a developer be able to make their games without fear that a cheap knock-off could appear within a couple of months and cannibalize their market? I think so! I'm not a very creative person, but I imagine that someone who is a creative person would be devastated if their years' of work were forcibly taken from them so that a less creative person could pad their bank account.

Speaking from an idealistic standpoint, I find blatant plagiarism to be a blight on the culture. Is Road Rage a terrible game? I mean, it's not great. It's fine! But is our culture any better for its existence? Wouldn't our culture be improved if those same developers redirected the energy expended copying Crazy Taxi and used it to make a game that spoke to their capabilities? Maybe Road Rage does express the extent of their abilities. In that case, should those developers even be contributing to the industry at all? These cheap cash-ins devalue the medium and push it ever closer to being on par with cheap consumerist slop like you find in the toy aisle at any department store.

I know that nothing is going to change. Publishers are going to keep hunting and pecking around until they find the next great idea to steal, and then it will be theirs to profit off of instead of the actual artists. I think that kind of sucks, and I just wish that developers had a little more at their disposal to protect their years' of hard work. That's all!

Thanks for reading!
I do think there's an extra element in the case of Epic having early access to PUBG that makes it feel immoral. That's its own whole kettle of fish there. But I still don't think that the generic "idea" of a battle royale (or any game design idea) should be "protected" by either patent or copyright.

I totally understand the fear that some small indie team creates something great and the 800 pound gorillas of the industry immediately clone it, meaning there's no incentive to make something new. In reality, game dev takes so much time that that's not really practical, and there's definitely still a first-mover advantage if you successfully execute a new idea. As you admit, PUBG made a ridiculous amount of money before Fortnite appeared to steal its lunch. Why do they deserve more, rather than the consumer deserving to get this new game that they obviously preferred? (I also think that the building aspect of Fortnite immediately made it it's own thing rather than a straight rip-off - the BR design was added after the base Fortnite game was already made, iirc)

As for your idealistic paragraph - I guess I just don't see art or the entertainment culture in general as being as precious or fragile as you. The idea that devs shouldn't be contributing to the industry if they're not capable of meeting some vague bar of unique design or artisitc merit - that would be snobbery to me. Not everyone is talented, but everyone deserves their shot. (And I know you were only asking a question there, not calling you a snob)

I feel like 90% of all cultural/artistic output is mediocre or worse. What we consider to be our culture is defined almost entirely by the top percentile of creative works / products - the things people enjoy, share with their friends, get nominated for awards. I may think Marvel films are rubbish, but the fact that so many enjoy them and choose to watch them rather than 1000s of other action films means that my opinion of whether they're worthy artistically doesn't really matter. They have cultural and artistic merit. Even at what's considered a more high-brow level of culture, most people don't read novels beyond the Booker prize nominees, (or Hugo/Nebula etc), or watch artistically-driven films outside of Oscar-nomineed ones etc. We look at the nuggets of gold atop a mountain of dirt. It was always that way, imo, and it's nothing to be worried about.
 
Wake up babe, a new long-form Drew thread dropped

(I don't really have anything else to add at this stage, aside from saying I thoroughly enjoyed reading this)
 
I do think there's an extra element in the case of Epic having early access to PUBG that makes it feel immoral. That's its own whole kettle of fish there. But I still don't think that the generic "idea" of a battle royale (or any game design idea) should be "protected" by either patent or copyright.

I totally understand the fear that some small indie team creates something great and the 800 pound gorillas of the industry immediately clone it, meaning there's no incentive to make something new. In reality, game dev takes so much time that that's not really practical, and there's definitely still a first-mover advantage if you successfully execute a new idea. As you admit, PUBG made a ridiculous amount of money before Fortnite appeared to steal its lunch. Why do they deserve more, rather than the consumer deserving to get this new game that they obviously preferred? (I also think that the building aspect of Fortnite immediately made it it's own thing rather than a straight rip-off - the BR design was added after the base Fortnite game was already made, iirc)

As for your idealistic paragraph - I guess I just don't see art or the entertainment culture in general as being as precious or fragile as you. The idea that devs shouldn't be contributing to the industry if they're not capable of meeting some vague bar of unique design or artisitc merit - that would be snobbery to me. Not everyone is talented, but everyone deserves their shot. (And I know you were only asking a question there, not calling you a snob)

I feel like 90% of all cultural/artistic output is mediocre or worse. What we consider to be our culture is defined almost entirely by the top percentile of creative works / products - the things people enjoy, share with their friends, get nominated for awards. I may think Marvel films are rubbish, but the fact that so many enjoy them and choose to watch them rather than 1000s of other action films means that my opinion of whether they're worthy artistically doesn't really matter. They have cultural and artistic merit. Even at what's considered a more high-brow level of culture, most people don't read novels beyond the Booker prize nominees, (or Hugo/Nebula etc), or watch artistically-driven films outside of Oscar-nomineed ones etc. We look at the nuggets of gold atop a mountain of dirt. It was always that way, imo, and it's nothing to be worried about.
I think it's fair to say that we disagree a bit, and I get it. Who am I to gatekeep what does and doesn't get made? I have my ideals, though, so I'll satisfy myself with controlling what I consume and at least making a point for why others might at least consider my perspective (while not expecting them to adopt it because that's never realistic).

Another example I thought of while writing this was 2048, which generously sampled from the iPhone app Three's. The creator claims to have never played Three's and was probably just inspired by others who played Three's, but I certainly know a number of people who only played 2048 and not Three's. I hate that! But, at the end of the day, there's not much I can do but try and promote the original work and hope that some people check it out.

I tried not to come off as too judgmental or snobby but I also write in a very definitive manner, so I apologize if it was perceived that way by anyone.
 
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This is a great video. Honestly I find the idea of video game "plagiarism" reductive. For the many Doom-clones (FPS) games out there, would it really be right to leave the genre into the sole hands of ID? Did other games of the time do nothing to innovate, just blindly copying what came before? What about games that copied gameplay from works outside the medium (deckbuilders)? Hell, even in blatant examples, it's not always helpful. Is Stardew Valley the most brazen example of plagiarism we've ever seen? Or is it a lovely game that wears its inspiration on its sleeve while refining many aspects of the old design? Now that Stardew Valley has aged, it's gotten several games that riff on it as well, like Sun Haven and Kynseed. Is this a bunch of artists being inspired by works they love, or is it plagiarism all the way down?

Even for games that pioneered genres, this is murky. The rise of idle games is attributed to Cookie Clicker, but it arguably didn't create the genre. Vampire Survivors was a breakout hit, but it had games it was inspired by. We're also seeing many different takes on the Vampire Survivors formula. Is that a bad thing?
Should every new game genre be the sole domain of its creator? Or should we let others take their shot at what they think is interesting, combining new and old ideas to create better games, better genres, and a better medium?

Plagiarism when it comes to essays is one thing, but it is nigh-impossible (edit: to pin down) in regards to art.
 
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This is a great video. Honestly I find the idea of video game "plagiarism" reductive. For the many Doom-clones (FPS) games out there, would it really be right to leave the genre into the sole hands of ID? Did other games of the time do nothing to innovate, just blindly copying what came before? What about games that copied gameplay from works outside the medium (deckbuilders)? Hell, even in blatant examples, it's not always helpful. Is Stardew Valley the most brazen example of plagiarism we've ever seen? Or is it a lovely game that wears its inspiration on its sleeve while refining many aspects of the old design? Now that Stardew Valley has aged, it's gotten several games that riff on it as well, like Sun Haven and Kynseed. Is this a bunch of artists being inspired by works they love, or is it plagiarism all the way down?

Even for games that pioneered genres, this is murky. The rise of idle games is attributed to Cookie Clicker, but it arguably didn't create the genre. Vampire Survivors was a breakout hit, but it had games it was inspired by. We're also seeing many different takes on the Vampire Survivors formula. Is that a bad thing?
Should every new game genre be the sole domain of its creator? Or should we let others take their shot at what they think is interesting, combining new and old ideas to create better games, better genres, and a better medium?

Plagiarism when it comes to essays is one thing, but it is nigh-impossible (edit: to pin down) in regards to art.
As mentioned in a different reply, I think there's a pretty big difference between plagiarism and iteration. I do not think it's okay to just totally copy a game beat for beat, like Palworld stealing assets or Fortnite stealing mechanics wholesale. I do think it's more than okay to take the ideas from other developers and iterate on them in a way that is sufficiently transformative. Stardew Valley IS the example. It takes the base mechanics of Harvest Moon and iterates on them in such a transformative way that it became THE standard bearer for the genre.

Now, who's to judge if it's transformative or not? Well, you are your own judge. Where your line lies is certainly different from mine. I just think it's worthwhile to consider the moral implications of these circumstances.
 
As mentioned in a different reply, I think there's a pretty big difference between plagiarism and iteration. I do not think it's okay to just totally copy a game beat for beat, like Palworld stealing assets or Fortnite stealing mechanics wholesale. I do think it's more than okay to take the ideas from other developers and iterate on them in a way that is sufficiently transformative. Stardew Valley IS the example. It takes the base mechanics of Harvest Moon and iterates on them in such a transformative way that it became THE standard bearer for the genre.

Now, who's to judge if it's transformative or not? Well, you are your own judge. Where your line lies is certainly different from mine. I just think it's worthwhile to consider the moral implications of these circumstances.
I think for me the bar for being transformative, and turning an original, fantastic game’s idea into a genre codifier, isn’t even that high. A game can have a character in a green/blue jerkin that swings a sword, opens caves with bombs and needs to hit switches and find keys without ever getting close to plagiarising Zelda, as long as all those characters and areas and mechanics are built originally.

Same goes for every platformer that had you running to the right after SMB, smashing blocks and jumping on the heads of enemies before reaching a stage goal. Neither Streets of Rage or Final Fight plagiarise Double Dragon either. That’s just a genre codifier laying down a template through popularity. Monster Hunter Stories and Cassette Beasts and Digimon aren’t plagiarising Pokemon either, when the core appeal is their own original bestiaries. Genre codifier + fresh art direction + fresh own ideas for game mechanics leads to inspiration in all of the above, but it still all needs to be original work to be ‘inspired’ rather than ‘plagiarised’.
 
I FINALLY sat down to read this and

Well, that was an entertaining and fantastic read! I wasn't really on the Internet yet back in 2001 so I had no idea Sega did in fact take the Simpsons Road Rage devs to court and won. That makes sense cause to me it was just less cool Crazy Taxi. I did like me some Simpsons Hit and Run that one time I rented it from Blockbuster during holiday time.

Spec Ops I do recall it being based on a book over the year, but couldn't remember it until this post so heck yeah. It is an interesting experience and somewhat different from the usual shooters at the time.

Fortnite is indeed Fortnite.

Filip Muicin is actually someone I think about first in recent memory when it comes to the games industry and plagiarism. Mostly because he was one of the rising Nintendo (Switch) YouTubers of 2017 with incredible video editing talent. Too bad he squandered it by taking 1️⃣ shortcut that ultimately led him to becoming Punished Filip.

Anyway the Palworld Experiment as I'm calling it now will no doubt be the next chapter in apparently the ever growing saga of Video Games and Plagiarism.
 


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