Retro Super Mario Sunshine vs. Banjo-Tooie

[Boyfriend]

tooie is way too big and the sprawl is something else, but sunshine is half-baked

they're both still good enough games, but i guess i kind of have to give it to tooie to at least being what it set out to be, which was a massively expanded BK

 

[MrGab]

I'm a huge BK fan and I thought Yooka-Laylee was going to be my dream come true game lol. Mario Odyssey was a better Banjo-Threeie than YL.

Mario Odyssey is more like a "modern" Banjo, and YL is more a "classic" Banjo. I enjoyed YL, not better than Banjo games, but it's a fun game.

 

[BassForever]

tooie is way too big and the sprawl is something else, but sunshine is half-baked

they're both still good enough games, but i guess i kind of have to give it to tooie to at least being what it set out to be, which was a massively expanded BK

I used to feel BT was too big as well, but when I replayed it like 5 years ago I was shocked that it was a lot smaller then it was in my memory. I think it's a game that at the time felt intimidating coming off stuff like SM64 and BK, but with a modern lens BT is still a relatively small game compared to a lot of other collectathon titles and open world games that came afterwards.

 

[Twinsen]

The AllStar pack made me appreciate sunshine a whole lot more. Very janky yes but there's some great content in there. Not voting as I never played he banjo games.

 

[BassForever]

I will say in a general sense

If your goal is just to beat the game at any % then Sunshine is probably the better single run experience then Banjo Tooie.

If your goal is to get 100% with or without a guide Tooie is the vastly superior game to complete. I'm really not sure how anyone is ever supposed to find half the blue coins in sunshine without help. It's the one thing I was hoping the remaster would address in some way and they just, didn't.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I think people who remember Tooie fondly have blocked the red green blue mini games from their memory. that shit is like half the jiggies and it's never fun once

I've beaten Tooie multiple times and I straight up had to google what you were talking about

I had blocked them from my memory

Those alone are reason enough to consider Kazooie the better game imo

 

[Mekanos]

My ordering of the four games, which I imagine will be extremely unpopular, is

Tooie > Kazooie > Sunshine > 64

Tooie > Kazooie I recognize is because of nostalgia - I played it first. But there are improvements over the first game that usually get ignored in favor of discussing the overdone aspects. Still, for me it's actually very close between them (and DK 64 is similar in quality to both, maybe better, don't @ me)

I've discussed my Sunshine > 64 opinion before

The mythical person who played Tooie first appeared! Interesting to see you ended up preferring it to Kazooie.

 

[Boyfriend]

I used to feel BT was too big as well, but when I replayed it like 5 years ago I was shocked that it was a lot smaller then it was in my memory. I think it's a game that at the time felt intimidating coming off stuff like SM64 and BK, but with a modern lens BT is still a relatively small game compared to a lot of other collectathon titles and open world games that came afterwards.

i replayed (most) of the game fairly recently and felt like stuff got WAY too big the moment you leave mayahem temple

grunty industries and cloud cuckooland were maybe the most extreme examples but i was quickly losing my way in witchyworld even
it feels big for the sake of big, enough to be offputting imo, but maybe not enough to write off the whole game like i would with DK64's giant levels

part of that sensation definitely has something to do with the new interconnected design and quite a few jiggies requiring backtracking now, which just meant i had to try and remember more of the levels at once than i would have had to do in BK, especially in situations where banjo and kazooie get separated

 

[hologram]

The mythical person who played Tooie first appeared! Interesting to see you ended up preferring it to Kazooie.

It's one of those things where the small improvements are way more noticeable going the other way. For example, you have limited lives in Kazooie, where it's unlimited in Tooie. Going from Kazooie to Tooie, this probably doesn't elicit much more of a response than "oh cool, no more lives to worry about", whereas from Tooie to Kazooie it seems like a huge inconvenience. Similarly, all the moves you learn in Kazooie are available at the start in Tooie, so if you play Tooie first, you feel frustratingly limited when you first start Kazooie.

On the other hand, the ways in which Tooie is worse are less noticeable when it's the only one you've played.

 

[Mekanos]

i replayed (most) of the game fairly recently and felt like stuff got WAY too big the moment you leave mayahem temple

grunty industries and cloud cuckooland were maybe the most extreme examples but i was quickly losing my way in witchyworld even
it feels big for the sake of big, enough to be offputting imo, but maybe not enough to write off the whole game like i would with DK64's giant levels

part of that sensation definitely has something to do with the new interconnected design and quite a few jiggies requiring backtracking now, which just meant i had to try and remember more of the levels at once than i would have had to do in BK, especially in situations where banjo and kazooie get separated

@Dinoman96 has talked before about how it feels like the Tooie levels are artificially scaled up and it's hard to not feel like that sometimes. Banjo just seems tiny compared to the worlds, it feels like they designed the worlds and stretched everything out by 20-30%.

 

[Dinoman96]

@Dinoman96 has talked before about how it feels like the Tooie levels are artificially scaled up and it's hard to not feel like that sometimes. Banjo just seems tiny compared to the worlds, it feels like they designed the worlds and stretched everything out by 20-30%.

I didn't say that lol. At least I don't remember saying that.

You're thinking of ned_ballad, who I don't think even has an account here.

 

[Mekanos]

I didn't say that lol. At least I don't remember saying that.

You're thinking of ned_ballad, who I don't think even has an account here.

Yeah well, dinosaurs are the ancient ancestors of birds, so there.

 

[Photon Rush]

I like Sunshine, I just think it's the weakest 3D Mario.

I think Tooie is a chore.

So... yeah.

this. also sunshine has some amazing levels