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Fun Club Star Fox Zero Deserves a Directors Cut

Scrawnton

Scrawnton

T1D Gamer
Founder
I said it.

And I mean a real Director’s Cut where the actual directors of the game fix the game and not try to force Miyamoto’s bonkers / terrible control idea into being the root mechanic of the game. Somewhere in Star Fox Zero is an excellent game that can be easily salvaged if some bold decisions were made for the service of betting the overall package, not made in service of Miyamoto’s controller vision.
 
Scrawnton said:
I said it.

And I mean a real Director’s Cut where the actual directors of the game fix the game and not try to force Miyamoto’s bonkers / terrible control idea into being the root mechanic of the game. Somewhere in Star Fox Zero is an excellent game that can be easily salvaged if some bold decisions were made for the service of betting the overall package, not made in service of Miyamoto’s controller vision.
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I don't get it, how is this a shitpost?
 
I strongly disagree with this. The game is built around Miyamoto's controller vision, and I doubt that the director's intentions were at odds with that.
 
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Nah just retool it into a SF1/2 remake proper with story options both in the original and latters style with both maps
 
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I always wanted to play Zero, so sure why not.

Though, I would prefer a remaster of Star Fox Assault.
 
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I thought it was a pretty cool game. I'd play it again with no changes even lol

Anyway, let's discuss Star Fox Adventures
 
I bought SFZ recently. I think I’ll play it after playing SF64 on NSO.
 
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I just want to say that I absolutely welcome more Star Fox games on Switch. That is all.
 
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You labelled the thread a shitpost, but at this rate Star Fox Zero and Devil's Third could both get Switch ports before Xenoblade Chronicles X. 🙃
 
I agree Star Fox Zero is a shitpost lol. But I would much prefer a brand new game over an enhanced port of Zero, Star Fox deserves a new adventure that continues the story
 
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Star Fox Zero remains the game that I most loved that seems to be most hated. Only issue I ever had with the controls is how often I had to "reset" them.
 
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Raccoon said:
you guys got a new game, a huge DLC, a remake, and are probably getting another new game next year. sit down lol
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Oh I'm good. I just feel bad for the folks who only care about Xenoblade Chronicles X and aren't into the numbered entries at all.

Bringing things back to Star Fox though, I'd rather see an HD port of Star Fox 64 3D than a Star Fox Zero port.
 
TheGreatLugia said:
Oh I'm good. I just feel bad for the folks who only care about Xenoblade Chronicles X and aren't into the numbered entries at all.

Bringing things back to Star Fox though, I'd rather see an HD port of Star Fox 64 3D than a Star Fox Zero port.
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see now you're speaking my language lmao

I feel that Star Fox Zero is a novel Wii U game and that it is better left as a unique home arcade experience than recut into some sort of inferior Star Fox 64 clone. I'd much rather we get the real thing with upgraded visuals.
 
Zero had its problems but when the second screen set up worked it was really freaking cool. I think if you remove that and port it it is just a mediocre star fox game. I’d rather have a new entry into the series. Or any entry really.
 
IMO there is a good game in Star Fox Zero. The control scheme holds it back though. I tried multiple times but I could never finish it.

For as much work as it would take to port the game to the Switch, Nintendo might be better off going in another direction with the franchise.
 
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Time to say something that will make people upset.

Star Fox Zero is the only Star Fox game I have completed. And I enjoyed it!
 
I absolutely loved SFZ and I 100%ed it! I'd 100% it again, too! I want my Star Fox sequel so badly :(
 
The controls were honestly the best part. The game itself ended up being a worse version of 64 because it was developed by Platinum Games, they love putting weird changes of pace as well as obnoxious requirements to fully clear a stage in pretty much all of their games. In 64 you could choose multiple routes and all of them are fine (unless you go for high scores). In Zero you have to deal with the Gyrowing and repeated stages. Therefore it was basically the worst of both worlds, it was too long to be an arcadey rail shooter that you replay for high scores and it was too short to be an action game that feels good to master all stages. Treasure would have done a much better job for sure
 
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I think ditching the motion controls and maybe adding in some new levels/content could redeem this game somewhat. It's never going to be great but it could be good.
 
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I like the idea of Star Fox Zero but I think they sadly dropped the ball in many areas. The gyrowing and the walker in particular were not very fun to control and drag down the good parts of the game. The little that I actually enjoyed would be completely lost i the transition and I'm also not sure if there's much to salvage in terms of assets (which are noticeably low-quality). Also, the game committed the cardinal sin of not having a versus multiplayer mode. There was probably a time very early into the Switch's life when it'd have make sense to bring it over... now not so much. A Star Fox Zero "Director's Cut" would need so much work, at that point they might as well make a new game altogether.
 
Just give me a modern remaster of Star Fox 2 and put Star Fox 64 on the N64 expansion. The original Star Fox has been remade enough, but Star Fox 2 has only recently seen the light of day.
 
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I'd like a new StarFox game, but between all of the changes to the story across 3 different versions of the first part of the story, the additions that were written in by Rare and Namco (Adventures and Assault, respectively), what Dylan Cuthbert did with Command and its bonkers multiple story endings torpedoing the established "64" franchise continuity and the fact StarFox 2 is now in full view of the public as a (for lack of a better word) alternate timeline... it seems like the story, with all its inconsistencies, is adding a lot of excess baggage to the franchise.

Outside of a few development partners like Intelligent Systems, games with story continuity are not their forte (only Sakamoto seems to have a handle on that within EPD and... well, even he doesn't have a pristine record there) and a game like Star Fox, with its particular type of gameplay, needs a story to sort of... I dunno, grease the wheel?

It also demands a consistent development team. The franchise has been bed-hopping for nearly its entire life and that's done no favours outside of keeping more games around. And if left with EPD, where the franchise always returns to, I fear they'll just keep remaking the first one until the end of time, because that's all they seem capable of or interested in doing with it.

Star Fox, as a franchise, needs to have some hard decisions made about it and no one seems interested in being the one to "kill their darlings".

EDIT: Also, no Star Fox game’s soundtrack has been able to match Hajime Hirasawa's compositions from the first game. Fight me.
 
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I'd welcome another try at Zero. I bought that game day one on Wii U, then was so frustrated by the controls I hardly spent any real time with it. Now I've given the Wii U away and can't go back to it, even if I thought I had the patience for it, so I'd happily give Zero another go — especially with a standard control scheme.

As to the future of the franchise, I've seen some solid suggestions that Star Fox oughta be a rogue-like and I think that'd be great. Keep the arcadey on-rails style with branching pathways, but just add in some randomized elements that change on each successive run, and I think you've got a recipe for success.
 
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Please for the love of god I never want to see Nintendo tackle the Star Fox 1 storyline again. They’ve done it FOUR times!

If we really have to have a new rail shooter and it can’t be Kid Icarus (which is a vastly better game to anything Star Fox has made), just cut everything off and start after 64. Classic cast of characters, new storyline, new worlds, cut out all the dumb bullshit. It can’t be that hard.

Or just make a new Kid Icarus!!!
 
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Terrell said:
I'd like a new StarFox game, but between all of the changes to the story across 3 different versions of the first part of the story, the additions that were written in by Rare and Namco (Adventures and Assault, respectively), what Dylan Cuthbert did with Command and its bonkers multiple story endings torpedoing the established "64" franchise continuity and the fact StarFox 2 is now in full view of the public as a (for lack of a better word) alternate timeline... it seems like the story, with all its inconsistencies, is adding a lot of excess baggage to the franchise.
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It's definitely confusing but I think if they were to make another one it'd just continue from where Zero left off. Miyamoto has been pretty open about it being a reboot and given how painfully similar the ending is to 64's I get the feeling that one of their main aims was to basically eject everything that came after it from the canon. How to sell that to your audience is a different question, especially when most people haven't even played Zero.

I've said before that I don't think it's worth going back to it due to a variety of reasons but now I'm thinking maybe a rejigged and cut-down version as eShop release? Maybe as a freebie for Expansion Pass subscribers? I honestly don't know. The game left the series in a weird place.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
It's definitely confusing but I think if they were to make another one it'd just continue from where Zero left off. Miyamoto has been pretty open about it being a reboot and given how painfully similar the ending is to 64's I get the feeling that one of their main aims was to basically eject everything that came after it from the canon. How to sell that to your audience is a different question, especially when most people haven't even played Zero.

I've said before that I don't think it's worth going back to it due to a variety of reasons but now I'm thinking maybe a rejigged and cut-down version as eShop release? Maybe as a freebie for Expansion Pass subscribers? I honestly don't know. The game left the series in a weird place.
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I believe the easiest way to sell it, should they actually make another game on a timeline where prior entries don’t exist, would be “accept it or we’re done with it”. It’s not like Star Fox fans are in a position to be picky, after all, and I say that being one of them. Nor do they have much in the way of examples to show why the “64” story continuity deserves preservation in lieu of starting over. The one idea I enjoyed thoroughly from that continuity was Panther Caroso from Assault, if only for the banter of everyone being disgusted with him being quite fun. But even then, I’m not crying any tears if he never returns.
 
Wouldn't it be better if Nintendo gave Platinum the possibility to make the Starfox game they wanted the way they wanted? I think this could save the franchise right now.

I cannot imagine right now a remasterization of Zero without Miyamoto, not because the game would be worse without him, but because he would insist on participating in this remaster and making it only the way he wanted without listening to the rest of the team and developers, resulting in a game that would completely kill the franchise.
 
Terrell said:
I believe the easiest way to sell it, should they actually make another game on a timeline where prior entries don’t exist, would be “accept it or we’re done with it”. It’s not like Star Fox fans are in a position to be picky, after all, and I say that being one of them. Nor do they have much in the way of examples to show why the “64” story continuity deserves preservation in lieu of starting over. The one idea I enjoyed thoroughly from that continuity was Panther Caroso from Assault, if only for the banter of everyone being disgusted with him being quite fun. But even then, I’m not crying any tears if he never returns.
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Oh yeah, definitely. I’m just trying to put myself in Nintendo’s shoes and think of whether it’s worth doing something with Star Fox Zero or not. I guess the benefit of Zero and 64 being more or less interchangeable is that people can just play 64 on 3DS or NSO and be up to speed.
 
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For a new Star Fox game they shouldn't really bother about the continuity too much IMO. The amount of fans that really cares about "Is this post-Command?!" "Is this the timeline were they became racers?!" "Is Star Fox 2 canon now?!" is likely so small that catering to them seems like a waste.

Just make a fun game with the standard Star Fox cast, add a few new characters and a fun storyline and that's it.
 
Just make a new Star Fox game without gimmicks.
Design Rollercoaster Action Stages with All Range Set Pieces sprinkled in and put some decent graphics on with some striking planets and enemies.

Star Fox is at its worst when its overcomplicated by designers overthinking the most basic stuff. Miyamoto for all his genius isn't immune to that designers problem. Overthinking basic stuff.
 
The game is already another retelling of the Star Fox 1 story. I say let it be, but make a new game that will just be good, simple fun and not held back by weird design choices. And I don't just mean the controls, Zero had problems beyond that.

And please make the story something different, anything but another retelling. I don't even care if it's canon with the rest of the series.

There is one thing I loved about the game though, and that's free switching between the Walker and arwing. It makes the non-rail levels actually fun to navigate, which even 64 couldn't manage. That's one mechanic that should stick around.
 
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The off-boresight targeting isn't a problem. It's the two screen system that runs counter to good cockpit design. A single screen version would be a lot less awkward.
 
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I loved Zero! I say bring it back! But I wouldn't mind it retooled to work a little more traditionally.

And I loved loved loved the Walker! As Whelt said, it helped make getting around All-Range arenas so much better! I loved the way it felt too and love the design!

New Star Fox is probably the way to go though. I always have hope but I feel the answer is much simpler than Nintendo believes it to be.
 
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Even with the controls fixed, the game is fundamentally retread of Star Fox 64, which despite people clamoring for more SF64, didn't go over well with them. SF64 is a good game but wouldn't appeal to a big enough audience nowadays. Star Fox has always been an experimental series, so it could easily adapt to a new genre or playstyle, like some other Nintendo IP have.

I think Zero will be buried and forgotten about by Nintendo, much like Other M. It's an unnecessary detour from a series that traditionally has had a mostly-sequential storyline (a rarity for Nintendo).

As Miss Click has said on Spawncast numerous times, just remaster or remake Assault and add QoL improvements and online multiplayer. Or better yet, do a sequel. Assault was the right direction to go in, both story-wise (no Andross, more characters) and gameplay-wise (flying, tank and on-foot shooting play styles and a big multiplayer focus).

Also a side note about Star Fox's trajectory the past 15 years...

I think it's interesting that Sakamoto got to do a big story-based Metroid and it nearly killed the franchise. Metroid lumbered along with a remake and unnecessary spinoff until it got back on track with Dread.

Similarly, Imamura did the story and art for Command, which nearly killed it as well. Like Metroid, Star Fox limped along with remakes and an unnecessary spinoff (Guard) - the latter games which were Miyamoto indulging in his worst impulses. Cuthbert isn't to blame for what happened with Command. He's a coding/engine guy. He's not the character designer or writer or anything. That's all Nintendo's bag.

It's very fascinating that Nintendo's two sci-fi, sequential story-based games were nearly killed off by their very co-creators indulging themselves. Maybe Star Fox will get its Dread Moment and get a true sequel after nearly two decades. We'll see (and hope!).
 
Also, enough with the whole "Star Fox should die so that Kid Icarus might live" narrative. Kid Icarus was an obscure side-scrolling action game before Sakurai repurposed it into a rail shooter. Even then, Uprising was initially brainstormed to be a Star Fox game, and I think you can see that in the game itself (it feels like a Star Fox game, from the shooting to the character banter). Sakurai also suggested the game was hell to make and he has no interest in returning to it. Nintendo doesn't have to kill off a franchise to let another exist. They can have similar series co-exist, as their plethora of 2D platformers indicates.

But who knows. Maybe someday Sakurai will make a Star Fox game and people will be conflicted because it'll be the best Kid Icarus game they ever played :p
 
I think Zero is a good game. You just have to adjust to controls which are not that easy to get. I think the controls are actually good. But they really demand a lot from player.

Edit: I still wouldn't mind a new version with more traditional controls
 
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Miraj said:
Similarly, Imamura did the story and art for Command, which nearly killed it as well. Like Metroid, Star Fox limped along with remakes and an unnecessary spinoff (Guard) - the latter games which were Miyamoto indulging in his worst impulses. Cuthbert isn't to blame for what happened with Command. He's a coding/engine guy. He's not the character designer or writer or anything. That's all Nintendo's bag.
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Cuthbert was the director of Command, not some coding grunt.
 
I think Zero cuts too many corners to justify a full priced Switch port. All Star Fox games recycle assets between levels, but Zero takes it to an extreme that I think makes the game look low budget. I think a new game, designed to be rendered on just one screen, would give the game the look it deserves.

I would just continue from Zero and expand the Star Fox universe from there. Bring back elements from old games like Krystal, Panther, Lucy, and remix them into this new continuity.
 
Terrell said:
Cuthbert was the director of Command, not some coding grunt.
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He has said in interviews that he let Imamura go wild with the story and artwork, and that Imamura had a blast writing all the endings. My point is that Cuthbert is not the one to blame for Command's writing/art, or any Star Fox game's story or art. He's primarily a tech-focused guy.

Interestingly, he wanted Command to be a more traditional Star Fox, but Miyamoto dictated the touch screen gimmicks. He also pitched a Star Fox SNES 3DS remake, but Nintendo turned it down for a Star Fox 64 3DS remake instead.
 
Miraj said:
He has said in interviews that he let Imamura go wild with the story and artwork, and that Imamura had a blast writing all the endings. My point is that Cuthbert is not the one to blame for Command's writing/art, or any Star Fox game's story or art. He's primarily a tech-focused guy.

Interestingly, he wanted Command to be a more traditional Star Fox, but Miyamoto dictated the touch screen gimmicks. He also pitched a Star Fox SNES 3DS remake, but Nintendo turned it down for a Star Fox 64 3DS remake instead.
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So he, in his position, let it happen. As director, it was his responsibility to reign things in and he was asleep at the wheel. It’s the “Other M” problem plaguing another franchise, where no one was there to say no to a bad idea (in that case, it was because Sakamoto was both producer AND director alongside Yosuke Hayashi at Koei Tecmo).
 
Terrell said:
So he, in his position, let it happen. As director, it was his responsibility to reign things in and he was asleep at the wheel. It’s the “Other M” problem plaguing another franchise, where no one was there to say no to a bad idea (in that case, it was because Sakamoto was both producer AND director alongside Yosuke Hayashi at Koei Tecmo).
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I think it was likely a similar situation with Platinum and Miyamoto, where they're not going to say no to the senior Nintendo alums who are overseeing stuff. I imagine Cuthbert wasn't going to tell Imamura or Miyamoto "no", similar to how Aonuma rarely ever said no to Miyamoto, and one of the rare times he did was when Miyamoto suggested they use the Zero gamepad gimmicks for BOTW.

Regardless, I feel like this is splitting hairs on a side thought I had noting some similarities between Star Fox and Metroid's rough times in the late 2000s/2010s.
 
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I want a new Star Fox, and IMO they should look at Star Fox 64 3DS and Sin & Punishment 2.

Shooter through and through. On foot missions would play like Sin & Punishment, complete with jet pack.

And of course classic arcade style shoot ‘em up for the flying sections with classic on rails and all range mode thrown in for certain parts.

That would be the dream game. On foot for variety is a good thing as long as they take the right approach (shoot ‘em up/run n gun) like Sin & Punishment does.
 
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I don't think it's fair to blame Command for the state of the franchise. I was around in the fandom when Assault was in development and released. That game had a huge budget with fancy pre rendered cutscenes and brilliant fully orchestrated music, but a lot of people just weren't interested in the game and it underperformed. Even major fan sites like Arwing Landing were pretty ho-hum about the game. Assault marked the point where Star Fox clearly wasn't going to be a major IP in Nintendo's catalogue, and later games were directly influenced by that.

I think the way to turn the franchise around is putting greater focus on the characters. People like the characters, so take a page from Fire Emblem and put them front and center. The cast straddles the line between being cool and cute, so there's appeal for a wide range of consumers. Also, add some women to the team. It's ridiculous for a game to have no women in the primary cast in 2016, let alone 2021.
 
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