Discussion Star Fox Begins - My idea for a new Star Fox game

[YolkFolk]

Story

A Star Fox team comprising of James McCloud, Peppy Hare & Pigma Dengar look to take down exiled Corneria scientist Andross & his evil forces who have launched assaults across the Lylat system. Intelligence from General Pepper has it that they are looking to steal materials for a new devastating biotech weapon which must be destroyed at all costs.

Gameplay

The game is a celebration of all the classic shoot 'em up styles over the last several decades.

Stages can be one of the below types, with some stages even having a combination of 2 or 3 different play styles -

Arwing - Classic gameplay

Arwing - All Range Mode gameplay

Arwing - R-Type style gameplay

Arwing - Ikaruga style gameplay

Landmaster - Classic gameplay

On foot - Sin & Punishment style gameplay

The Hub

The hub stage is The Great Fox. From here you can select your next mission, upgrade/customise your Arwing, Landmaster or jet pack, and even take part in different training simulation tasks to get you used to the different shoot 'em up play styles.

Structure

As mercenaries you must choose to take on different missions from the Lylat system map.

Some planets may need your help driving out Andross' forces, while other groups may want you as assistance as they look to take over huge enemy space craft carrying fuel and weapons.

The game starts with the option of 3 different assignments. These range from easy to medium and hard. You will receive a larger payment fee for completing harder stages which give you access to some very cool craft upgrades.

To finish the game you must complete at least one easy, medium or hard stage from the 7 different sectors of the Lylat system.

You are free to choose a mission of any difficulty level from each sector meaning future paths through the game can be totally different than the last. Technically this was the case in Star Fox 64 but now you can choose your path/mission more freely.

Finale

The final sector sees the Star Fox team arrive at Venom. The stage is a mix of multiple play styles. You must travel across Venom in the Landmaster before arriving at Andross' secret lab base. From here you must make your through the base on foot and set off the self destruct sequence. After escaping from the base you are confronted by Andross and his new biotech weapon. You must take to your Arwing and take it down.

Full ending

Complete the hard version of Venom to get a final sequence where Pigma turns on the Star Fox team during the final battle. Peppy escapes but James is presumed lost during the explosion when the biotech weapon is destroyed.

Summary

The main difference from past Star Fox games is the introduction of different shoot’em up styles such as those found in games like R-Type and Ikaruga. ‘On foot’ stages would play out like those found in Sin & Punishment so that the game retained that classic rail shooter feel.

As mercenaries, the fee you obtain for completing each mission would also allow you to amend your craft. You’d be able to buy stronger lasers and more durable wings. Perhaps your Arwing could end up looking more like the ones found in Star Fox Assault depending on which parts you purchased.

The option to choose any level from each sector is also important. I’ve read so many impressions from people who loved Star Fox 64 but never knew how to unlock or weren’t skilled enough to even try out some stages. Being able to choose your mission should lead to so many varied playthroughs as well.

 

[Clix]

Oh wow. I was just thinking the other day how cool it would be if they added Sin & Punishment style gameplay into a Star Fox game. I know previously with on foot missions it didn’t work out, but that would be the way to go and keep it engaging.

So of course I would support your concept for it which is what how I imagine it should be, minus the classic shump style levels. I think while cool, it may be too much of a departure from the rest of the game.

 

[TheMoon]

I got to R-Type and Ikaruga gameplay and went nope.gif

 

[YolkFolk]

I got to R-Type and Ikaruga gameplay and went nope.gif

That’s why being able choose your missions from each sector is so important. You could play through the game without playing a single mission in those styles if they weren’t to your liking.

Obviously there wouldn’t be many of them anyway with the classic styles making up most of the missions.

 

[YolkFolk]

Oh wow. I was just thinking the other day how cool it would be if they added Sin & Punishment style gameplay into a Star Fox game. I know previously with on foot missions it didn’t work out, but that would be the way to go and keep it engaging.

So of course I would support your concept for it which is what how I imagine it should be, minus the classic shump style levels. I think while cool, it may be too much of a departure from the rest of the game.

Think I might play Sin and Punishment on Switch Online as my first game on the expansion.

 

[Clov]

Not sure about R-Type and Ikaruga style gameplay in Star Fox... and while Sin and Punishment style might be the one way on-foot could really work in Star Fox, I still would rather not have it. Maybe some more vehicle types instead of those. Bring back the Blue Marine, or even Star Fox 2's Walker! I'm sure there's some way to mix things up with those. Some brand new vehicles would be neat too.

 

[Brock Reiher]

I like the idea of branching out to tons of different gameplay styles, but I think everyone would roll their eyes at seeing a new star fox pitched as any type of prequel or re-telling at this point.

 

[Gashead]

I like the idea of branching out to tons of different gameplay styles, but I think everyone would roll their eyes at seeing a new star fox pitched as any type of prequel or re-telling at this point.

It really is stuck. It needs a retelling/origin that sells well to then go on to generate sequels but people are so sick of them doing the same story they want to jump to that sequel that wont sell because the franchise is seen as a mess to lots of people.

If Nintendo came out and said "this is it, it's the definitive star fox experience" and had like 50 missions going from James, to the betrayal, to Fox, to defeating Andross, to star fox 2 Andross returns, to James' return against a new threat so menacing even star wolf get involved and you have 3 playable squadrons lead by James, Wolf and Fox. Without any controls that could be seen as gimmicks, just ever increasing difficulty and 11 (need a 12th really from somewhere) different pilots, maybe it could become something. But they aren't going to fund something that big.

 

[Brock Reiher]

It really is stuck. It needs a retelling/origin that sells well to then go on to generate sequels but people are so sick of them doing the same story they want to jump to that sequel that wont sell because the franchise is seen as a mess to lots of people.

If Nintendo came out and said "this is it, it's the definitive star fox experience" and had like 50 missions going from James, to the betrayal, to Fox, to defeating Andross, to star fox 2 Andross returns, to James' return against a new threat so menacing even star wolf get involved and you have 3 playable squadrons lead by James, Wolf and Fox. Without any controls that could be seen as gimmicks, just ever increasing difficulty and 11 (need a 12th really from somewhere) different pilots, maybe it could become something. But they aren't going to fund something that big.

I think they could also get a lot of buzz saying like "Hey, the Command ending where Krystal leaves fox and starts dating Panther is canon. Welcome to Star Wolf." but I don't think Nintendo would allow that kind of story telling with a property like Star Fox tbh

 

[TreIII]

It really is stuck. It needs a retelling/origin that sells well to then go on to generate sequels but people are so sick of them doing the same story they want to jump to that sequel that wont sell because the franchise is seen as a mess to lots of people.

That's why I don't think it "needs" a retelling, at all, at this point.

By the time N64 is added to the NSO, a lot more people will have an accessible way to play SF64/Lylat Wars, in addition to the already available original game, as well as the curiosity that is Star Fox 2 on the SNES portal. If you really are a neophyte interested in learning about the series' roots, you already got three games ready and waiting for you. Even better that 64 is still regarded as one of, if not the best of the entire series, so you can get an idea of "what the fuss is all about".

That should be all the more reason why a new team should be freed from the notion of having to remake Fox's first mission for the umpteenth time, and move on to something else.

Now, if anything? Metroid Dread's recent success should, in my opinion, be a model that a similar "beloved niche" series like StarFox ought to follow.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel.
You don't need to reboot the story (again).
You don't even need to introduce and work around gimmicks "just because".

You DO, however, need to truly take a look back at the earlier and time-honored classic (Super Metroid/StarFox 64), and examine exactly why that game is so beloved. I believe Emily put it best when she spoke about (to paraphrase) just how much of a "mystery" it is that Nintendo never really made a serious effort to give SF64 a proper follow-up, or at least attempt to truly replicate what it did.

 

[Gashead]

I think they could also get a lot of buzz saying like "Hey, the Command ending where Krystal leaves fox and starts dating Panther is canon. Welcome to Star Wolf." but I don't think Nintendo would allow that kind of story telling with a property like Star Fox tbh

While command/dinosaurs are a whole can of worms they definitely need to branch off from just the original 4. Imagine a trailer starting, it shows Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy, but the more you watch the more it doesn't make sense, the planets or systems don't match until it reveal's the team is split and they were doing different missions as Fay, Miyu and James enter to bolster the ranks. Even if there weren't any differences between the ships, which I would really like there to be, it still gives the illusion of choice and the wider universe to it all.

Edit, just had a horrible thought..... they could gatcha it, Imagine the fuss of people trying to pull a 5 star summer beachwear Wolf

 

[Gashead]

That's why I don't think it "needs" a retelling, at all, at this point.

By the time N64 is added to the NSO, a lot more people will have an accessible way to play SF64/Lylat Wars, in addition to the already available original game, as well as the curiosity that is Star Fox 2 on the SNES portal. If you really are a neophyte interested in learning about the series' roots, you already got three games ready and waiting for you. Even better that 64 is still regarded as one of, if not the best of the entire series, so you can get an idea of "what the fuss is all about".

That should be all the more reason why a new team should be freed from the notion of having to remake Fox's first mission for the umpteenth time, and move on to something else.

I don't know how they can market it. Give it another tagline and it just blends in to low selling sequels, call it 2 and it's confusing, call it 64 2 and confusing and people would overshadow it with the possibility of Mario 64 2.

I think the OP is onto something with the whole Pigma betrayal, James instead story but while new to us it would be difficult to springboard to future stories from a prequel.

 

[TreIII]

I don't know how they can market it.

The same way Nintendo marketed Dread.

If Metroid was able to finally bounce back after the "weird era" that describes Other M and Federation Force, to the point that Dread had people honestly EXCITED to play a Metroid game (let alone have a fervor to try out the rest of the series' catalog)? I don't think there's anything saying that what worked for Samus couldn't work for Fox. He really just needs a truly great game to his credit, again.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Make it all crazy and explodey. The alien worlds of the N64 classic were all well varied and had memorable boss battles, so they would need to concentrate on those aspects I think.

The on foot gameplay wasn't a bad idea, just how it was done previously that I didn't like. Something more akin to Sin & Punishment for those on foot missions, I would definitely be happy with.

 

[wrowa]

The same way Nintendo marketed Dread.

If Metroid was able to finally bounce back after the "weird era" that describes Other M and Federation Force, to the point that Dread had people honestly EXCITED to play a Metroid game (let alone have a fervor to try out the rest of the series' catalog)? I don't think there's anything saying that what worked for Samus couldn't work for Fox. He really just needs a truly great game to his credit, again.

To be fair, how many successful shoot'em ups do still get released these days? Metroidvania as a genre is more popular than ever, but Star Fox's style of gameplay pretty much fell out fashion ages ago. Making Star Fox actually popular again would always be a bigger uphill battle, at least if you don't reinvent it. Or make Star Fox Adventures 2.

 

[Lord Azrael]

Can I pitch my idea too? This is just my fanfic pie in the sky dream game, and I have never actually played a Star Fox game (but love the characters/setting), so feel free to ignore me lol, but:

Developed by Retro Studios. Two main forms of gameplay: on foot, and rails shooter. You'd visit lots of different planets throughout the course of the story, but it'd be linearly told, so no free-roaming space exploration or anything like that. The rails shooter segments would be your prelude to each planet, covering your travel there. Alternating structure, kinda like Kid Icarus: Uprising

On foot segments would be a mashup between third person shooter and action game. You'd have lock-on so aiming wouldn't really be the focus; it'd just serve as a ranged option, similar to the drones in NieR: Automata. You'd have the reflector from Smash as a parry, and the side B from Smash as a move to automatically close the distance between you and your lock-on target. There would be linear levels where you raid a base or something, and open levels where you explore the surface of a planet or whatever.

You'd have a giant space station as a free-roaming hub level. Can run around on foot, and maybe fly around it in your arwing. This is where you'll purchase gear, weapon and ship upgrades. I can even picture the sleek UI aesthetic in my head though it'd be a fool's errand trying to share that in prose lol

 

[TreIII]

To be fair, how many successful shoot'em ups do still get released these days? Metroidvania as a genre is more popular than ever, but Star Fox's style of gameplay pretty much fell out fashion ages ago. Making Star Fox actually popular again would always be a bigger uphill battle, at least if you don't reinvent it. Or make Star Fox Adventures 2.

New Pokemon Snap came out just this year, and is effectively a sequel to an adorable railshooter from 22 years ago that stayed true to what made the original what it was. In other words, EXACTLY what that devoted segment have been asking for.

"Lol, Pokemon" aside (though, even I would say that's not at all a guarantee that it would've cemented going on to sell 2+ million copies)? I don't think going with a railshooter is as hopeless an endeavor as some may think. And it's not like StarFox is some unknown.

 

[Miraj]

That's a really good write-up OP. You thought this out pretty well! It's almost like a more advanced take on Kid Icarus: Uprising.

So, two things I am hesitant about:

1) Prequels are almost never as good as their original stories hint at. The entirety of Star Fox 64's prequel setup is that James craeted Star Fox and was betrayed by Pigma. You go that route for a full game and it won't feature most of the beloved characters people really like (grown-up Fox, Falco, Krystal,... Slippy I guess lol). I could see there being flashback parts of a Star Fox game showing bits of James' story or his relationship with Fox, but I don't think it would sustain a full game, especially if it meant we see less of those popular characters. The mercenary angle could also be used with the current team, as it's an aspect of them Nintendo never explores (like how Samus is a bounty hunter but she's always shooting animals and blowing up planets).

2) I am hesitant to say that a Star Fox game should be entirely on-rails, even if it mixes it up between land, air and sea. Sin & Punishment 2 wasn't exactly a huge hit. Nobody is craving for a new Space Harrier. Even Kid Icarus Uprising, fresh off of Sakurai's popularity with Brawl, barely eeked past a million sales. I just don't think rail shooters are necessary anymore. They were created as a way to showcase graphics around technical limitations, but with modern tech it's not as necessary. Besides, the public seems to enjoy more control over their characters, and more open environments.

I do agree they need to mix air, ground and on-foot combat. Take Assault's approach but push it further. Get that rhythm down to something akin to Kid Icarus Uprising. Or they could do the idea I joked about in another thread, which was Furry Xenoblade X.

 

[Chalphy]

Star Fox without Falco? I don't think so.

I think if anything, Star Fox needs to take a page from Fire Emblem, and let you interact with the characters on greater level. People like the SF cast, and Zero in particular severely underutilized them. In fact, I would use the early concepts of Star Fox 2 as a basis, and bulk up both Star Fox and Star Wolf with new members.

Also, NoA, chill with the barrel roll memes.

 

[TheCongressman]

Might be neat idea for a game in general, but I definitely don't think just combining all shooters together is what Star Fox needs.

 

[evilmonkey]

I have a similar idea:

• Star Fox Legacy Collection: HD remasters of 64 3D, Zero (less janky controls edition), and 2
• Star Fox Beyond: a soft reboot with a smaller cast and a focus on exploration

 

[Brock Reiher]

To be fair, how many successful shoot'em ups do still get released these days? Metroidvania as a genre is more popular than ever, but Star Fox's style of gameplay pretty much fell out fashion ages ago. Making Star Fox actually popular again would always be a bigger uphill battle, at least if you don't reinvent it. Or make Star Fox Adventures 2.

There a really cool looking indie star fox-like coming out soon.

I think Star Fox is different from Super Metroid tho in that the series got famous off of pushing hardware in impressive ways and you know... that's not really what Nintendo's priority is anymore. Star Fox Zero continued that in its own way but I don't think it's what people wanted.

 

[k samedi]

Hmm a 4 player co op star fox triple A game would get a lot of attention. I hope Sakurai is on it. He seems to understand the base concepts of games and adds a lot of content around the base ideas. I’d definitely like to see an open world kind of thing where you explore the planet with loads of different kind of ships and tanks and what not.

 

[fguzramm]

I'd love to have a Starfox game with the open world system of Starlink...going in and out of planets seamlessly, moving freely all over the planets....but also include linear (on rail or whatever the classic starfox playing mode is called) missions....keep the transforming arwings from Starfox Zero....have on foot missions...Landmaster, Blue Marine....all that. Maybe command you wingmates to other planets and join them later....I'd love something like that...Honestly at this point I would settle for a StarFox Zero port...just get rid of the double camera thing and it would be perfect...

 

[jnWake]

I dig the idea of a James McCloud game but I feel that's more of DLC campaign material than full game material.

Regarding gameplay ideas, I dig the idea of more types of gameplay. I've always felt Star Fox should just go all-in on many types of vehicles with different gameplay: Arwing, Landmaster, on-foot, new vehicles like a mech, motorcycles (a Mach Rider mode!)... I dunno, there's tons of options lol.

I also like the idea of a Hub, I imagine it like how the hub worked in Starcraft II.

 

[KCannon]

Star Fox Zero's purpose was mostly to reintroduce a status quo after the previous games went into a WTF direction.

Most likely, games from now on will be episodic, without needing to follow a continuous story so more reboots aren't needed. We were already seeing this with Starlink, where the events of the Lylat Wars already happened and both Star Fox and Star Wolf are still whole.

 

[Miraj]

Star Fox without Falco? I don't think so.

I think if anything, Star Fox needs to take a page from Fire Emblem, and let you interact with the characters on greater level. People like the SF cast, and Zero in particular severely underutilized them. In fact, I would use the early concepts of Star Fox 2 as a basis, and bulk up both Star Fox and Star Wolf with new members.

Also, NoA, chill with the barrel roll memes.

This. Focus a lot on characters, as they're what made the series stand out from being just a generic space ship shooter in the first place. They could bring back the characters from SF2 and SF Assault. The player could form different alliances, or teams. Maybe the female characters form their own team, so we'd have three rival teams. It would open up the game to multiple playthroughs too depending on the alliances you forge. Lots of potential!

 

[Miraj]

Hmm a 4 player co op star fox triple A game would get a lot of attention. I hope Sakurai is on it. He seems to understand the base concepts of games and adds a lot of content around the base ideas. I’d definitely like to see an open world kind of thing where you explore the planet with loads of different kind of ships and tanks and what not.

I would love it if Sakurai's lower inclusion of Star Fox content in recent Smash games is due to him going with his original pre-Kid Icarus Uprising idea to make a Star Fox, and that's his next game. In reality it's probably because he (and Nintendo) just isn't interested, but it would be awesome to see him use that Uprising template to build upon and revitalize the series.

 

[Seik]

Think I might play Sin and Punishment on Switch Online as my first game on the expansion.

Did you play S&P2 on Wii? It's a sublime game, Treasure's last gem (I think?). I really, really recommend it.

 

[Deleted member 1676]

Oh wow, did you get into my brain? I have always thought of something similar for Star Fox and you have laid it out in way better words than I could try. This is seriously what I have wanted from Star Fox for a while. I’ve always thought it would be amazing to have it basically be classic Star Fox but with this Mass Effect-style intermissions between missions where you upgrade gear, talk to your teammates and etc.

 

[Sander RX]

Nice idea.

Instead of having so many gameplay styles with the Arwing, why not give the rest of them to newly introduced space/flying vehicles instead?

 

[em]

I liked Command, but I honestly couldn’t care less about the story and characters. Give me the aerial combat (and the music of OG StarFox) and I’m happy. Same deal with F-Zero. Heck, cross over the characters between the two if that’s what it takes.

It would require a ton of development resources to bring in multiple game styles, and each additional one adds to the likelihood that it just won’t be good. There’s a reason most games stick to one set of combat mechanics throughout, instead of tackling multiple genres. (Also, I despise the landmaster/tank/walker/on-foot sections of StarFox.)

 

[Jota]

I want a new Star Fox game with the Mass Effect 2 formula. Every mission is rail-shooting and you can explore space stations and other cool places to recrute other animals to help in a big 'final' mission. You can have conversations and side quests with your crew in the big ship. Alternative paths and endings!

My dream Star Fox game. Love the idea of a On foot Sin & Punishment style gameplay tho

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

I've been wanting a proper Starfox 2 followup/remake since I actually played it. And no, Command didn't scratch that itch.

There's something about the roguelite and map management stuff Starfox 2 did that Command didn't even touch, and that was great, worth revisiting with more modern tech and options.

 

[TreIII]

Star Fox Zero's purpose was mostly to reintroduce a status quo after the previous games went into a WTF direction.

Most likely, games from now on will be episodic, without needing to follow a continuous story so more reboots aren't needed. We were already seeing this with Starlink, where the events of the Lylat Wars already happened and both Star Fox and Star Wolf are still whole.

I don't think they need to jettison an overarching narrative, altogether. Just don't make the same mistake that the 64 -> Command series did with having characters age up (and in Peppy's case, age out) unnecessarily.

At its core, StarFox is supposed to be a furry Thunderbirds + JP Sci-fi mecha homage. If it can't find a way to be a decent serial series, much like the various things it's citing, it would've already lost the plot, in my opinion.