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Discussion Spyro / 90s collectathon homage game: Daybreak in Snowhere

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...Technically the game is pending an update but an older version of it is still available and I really want to talk about it in general. This is more of a ramble so forgive me if this gets long, but it's kind of also a commentary on collectathon and platformer design in general.

Basically it's a game meant to replicate N64 and Playstation visuals, but it's a LOT more focused on story than early platformers and has a world you can actually walk between levels rather than a portal system or hub world. The game page says that the average game session is 30 minutes (correct) but there is so much story and lots of commentary/banter between Eira (dragon) and Seraphine (gryphon birb friend) that it feels longer but in a good way.

There aren't a lot of levels (6 if I ignore the beach arena and the village outskirts area) but each one is a completely different piece of the story, and there are a couple secrets that pretty much add a smaller background mystery that you can string together. It's not mega deep lore but it's something I've been chewing on for a while.

A still image of the game's village during the night. A blue dragon with tall goat horns and a crystal ball on her tail is standing in the center of the image, looking towards the snowy hills and lantern shaped houses in the background. There are three blue hearts in the top right corner of the image while the top left corner displays a purple shard and snowflake.


Itchio page (also image source)

"CURRENTLY UNSTABLE" warning explanation: As far as I'm aware, this seems to apply to only Update 4. It seems like the older Update 3 version of the game is still available to play. Just be aware that the biggest difference is that Update 4 has a visual filter to make the game more pixelated like early PS1 games, but it also has better things like camera controls, some bug fixes and better transitions after falling into water and such.

Possible photosensitivity / glitchy graphics warning: The game's village level can have small flashy effects across the terrain, and there are endless void bugs (and some glitchy camera movement where it can zoom/move too fast) if you very deliberately climb around or fly past the map borders in the village outskirt area and the bigger ocean iceberg level at very specific points.​

Free Demo version (slight button difference: Ice breath is CTRL or Command while it's Left Mouse Button in the main game)

This Wyverns & Waypoints review gives the clearest rundown on what to expect while playing, GIFs included. It's honest and pretty spot on. Just be aware that it was written before camera sensitivity controls were implemented.
How the newer camera works in Update 4: Basically it has X and Y sliders for horizontal and vertical camera movement. I have no footage but this is how the sliders work from a LinkedIn video by the developer (the level in the video isn't in the game). The game camera will still automatically get behind Eira whenever she jumps. This isn't the Autocam toggle you see in the game settings, Autocam basically adjusts the camera behind you whenever you turn.​



STORY: To elaborate, basically the secrets change how you look at some cutscenes:
The library has a second area with more books and some artifacts and give you names and ideas about the other races in Snowhere. With all books across both areas, you pretty much have the names of 5 out of 6 of them from the festival cutscene. Technically a minor detail but definitely important for later.
There is a hidden statue in Eira's dream if you turn around after chatting with the fake Seraphine. Screen brightness may be needed. While Eira's point that her dream must be a sign she needs to look for other dragons (obvious), that statue shows what might have happened to them specifically (not so obvious).
Technically not a secret but the library book in the main building mentions what used to live in the village, which changes the feeling of "who this?" to "OH" entirely.

Yes, it's not wise to read into secrets too much but these seem to be deliberate clues or teases and it adds a different kind of storytelling altogether. And I kind of... wonder why we never really had that kind of storytelling for collectathons or platformers in general. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that since I have a very small reference pool of knowledge.

I know generally, you don't want to lock story behind obscure content of any kind (let alone 100% but that's its own debate) but it feels so refreshing than the usual cutscenes after X amount of collectibles or level unlocks, and feels more like an adventure/mystery game. For people who want to see more collectathons/platformers return to the spotlight, I'm curious on your take on it if y'all do manage to play.

Collectathons are making a slow comeback like Super Kiwi 64 but similar to linear vs open nonlinear gameplay, I'm curious on how story heavy y'all like your platformers. This one is heavier on the adventure so it has 1-2 cutscenes or at least a key emotional moment per level and there's some adorable commentary/banter between Seraphine and Eira while they're running through levels (the demo is a good peek into it, the frequency does tone down a little in other levels and Seraphine will go quiet when necessary).

Thoughts?

EDIT 3: ok beyond that I should mention at least several other things before I start chewing myself out on how bad I wrote this yesterday (again), but I'll ramble and summarize these other points. I just don't really have a question attached to these specifically but it's something I also wanna talk about.

First off, the dialogue. It easily has the most well-written, natural dialogue between childhood friends. Eira and Seraphine actually tease each other and Seraphine calls her "doofus" at one point. It's very realistic. It's also interesting when it comes to conflict because both are actually smart in-universe even when one is being a little dense and insensitive. You can also get a sense of how each NPC's personality works even if you don't talk to them too much. Odette has her head in the clouds, Vivian is a strict teacher that's tired of Eira's antics, the list goes on.

Then the characters: The gryphons are very interesting and there actually isn't much I could say without parroting the review I linked, but basically they're so varied that you won't even notice they're recycling each other's models. No really, it took me an embarrassingly long time to notice. We're talking gryphons with swan and blue jay designs. I think there's 3 models total but 8 characters, ignoring Seraphine and the owl/lion village elder which have unique models.

Eira & Seraphine: Kind of near impossible to talk about them separately but here we go. They're not always together in the game so they're not an official duo but to summarize, Eira is the responsible half while Seraphine is the reckless half.

Seraphine is definitely my favorite. She's the most animated both literally and metaphorically. She'll cry some cartoony tears and she looks like a pink arctic fox bouncing across the snow whenever she runs due to her fluffy tail (it's actually a snow leopard tail). Beyond that, she's the most adventurous and overconfident to a fault, so she drives most of the plot despite not being the main character, which is an interesting take but it's probably a good metaphor for how much she takes charge around Eira. Plus she's just funny. Can be admitedly grating whenever she's being self-centered or overconfident but still funny.

Eira is interesting to analyze because as a dragon in a 3D platformer, it's very easy to compare her to Spyro but she's not a snowy Spyro 2.0 To get similarities out of the way quickly: If you play Reignited's Year of the Dragon, she IS like Spyro's long-lost cousin. They both act justifiably concerned and lost over the idea of dragons disappearing from a world centuries ago (well, 1000 years for Spyro) and being found and adopted when they were eggs (Legends Spyro) but otherwise they split from there.

Since Eira is more responsible, she's not spunky or fight-happy but she does have a moment where she thinks the best way to cheer up a friend is through playfighting. That's just... feels perfect for someone that's basically a kid dragon. Of course she's going to tussle someone. She's also implied to be a bit of a bookworm since the entire reason Seraphine gives her a gift is because she likes reading about magical artifacts. So... booksmart but will still playfully throw hands with a friend. Love it.

Level design: Only 2 levels are actual platforming sections so I just treat the game more like a collectathon adventure but I'll break them down regardless. For platforming, since it's Chapter 1 the levels are pretty gentle save for a few "bounce" issues that occur on edges. If Eira lands on an edge wrong, she'll slip or have an extra bounce so... insert a clever ice level joke here. They're generally easy to recover from because she has a high double jump and she'll reach pretty far with her wing flaps, which shows the most in the iceberg level. It's not free flight but you'll be going places here specifically. It's pretty a big jungle gym that allows for the most freedom since you can climb to the top of most icebergs and therefore bypass chunks of the level if you wanted to. Not to the point where it's broken since it's very clear you're not meant to be blocked at all. The jumps are still linear if want the collectibles.

The beach has almost a bent figure 8 design that loops around. Imagine it as a pink synthwave beach with basalt columns. Everything has a pink sunset palette except for the plants, and anything under the water has a bright pastel blue glow including the fish. It's ironically the most "punishing" because it's the first platforming area which means the most learning hiccups will occur here but you don't lose a life when you fall into water so it's fine.

The levels that don't focus on platforming really excel at atmosphere or capturing specific emotions.

It's interesting because the ones that stick out to me are pretty small but their scenery and music just hit things perfectly. A good example is the area outside the village. I'm not kidding about its small size but it's the most emotionally impactful. As soon as you enter it, the mountains are physically framed and shaped in a way where you're immediately staring at the level's center and then the guitar strings hit to let you know what will happen next. It's so simple but perfect. I wish I felt this way about the larger village area but maybe I'm just more impressed with things that surprise me or just get too distracted with the NPCs and library books. There is a cute detail where all the gryphons hung their feathers in the village and you can figure out which feather is which, so that's a plus.

As for the other area:
Easily the dream. There is absolutely no challenge at all in it but the game takes huge momentary tone shift here. Thankfully it's not a clichéd "cute game suddenly turned horrifying" moment but it is still a weird but fun level out of the entire game because of the little things. Whenever Eira walks, she leaves behind a trail of purple smoke and a jingling sound plays with each step. There's also a secret here that adds an extra layer to the story and I always like to revisit it whenever I play. The music here is also a bit of a deep humming drone so when it appears, you feel that something's off.

There. I really needed to get all of that out. Wished it happened yesterday when I started this thread but I guess while the brain cells are firing off, might as well.
 
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I hit ENTER by accident while writing please I don't know how to delete the thread. I'll guess I'll emergency edit like crazy please don't respond yet.
 
I hit ENTER by accident while writing please I don't know how to delete the thread. I'll guess I'll emergency edit like crazy please don't respond yet.
You can always report your post yourself, type in the report what you want the mods to do about it. I went ahead and did that for you in hopes they'll see it faster.
 
You can always report your post yourself, type in the report what you want the mods to do about it. I went ahead and did that for you in hopes they'll see it faster.
Thank you for mentioning that but I think I'm just going to let it sit here until I finish in hopefully 10 minutes. Earlier a mod yeah'd my post so I think I'm in the clear unless I just wanna drop my ramble entirely and just leave the basic game info up. I'm just still editing as we speak. Even if the thread is taken down, I'll post the finished version later since I want to get it off my chest finally. Crossing fingers because writing's such a slog.
 
Thank you for mentioning that but I think I'm just going to let it sit here until I finish in hopefully 10 minutes. Earlier a mod yeah'd my post so I think I'm in the clear unless I just wanna drop my ramble entirely and just leave the basic game info up. I'm just still editing as we speak. Even if the thread is taken down, I'll post the finished version later since I want to get it off my chest finally. Crossing fingers because writing's such a slog.
You're fine, just keep editing. If it ends up taking you longer than anticipated and you want the thread locked in the meantime so nobody can reply to it, give us a holler!
 
Okay everything's fixed. Hope it looks okay. Screaming internally inside but at least it's finished!
 
Yes, it's not wise to read into secrets too much but these seem to be deliberate clues or teases and it adds a different kind of storytelling altogether. And I kind of... wonder why we never really had that kind of storytelling for collectathons or platformers in general. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that since I have a very small reference pool of knowledge.
I think it's always been kind of a taboo to do serious storytelling in a platformer for some reason, especially one that doesn't break the mold of looking cute and colorful. I'm sure it doesn't help that most notable attempts have been bad. Some long-running series have "lore" in the form of Easter Eggs for longtime fans which involve referencing or connecting past entries, like Kirby, but in general though it's almost unheard of for platformers to have extensive worldbuilding or character development. A big exception for the latter is Sly Cooper, but I think you probably have to look at indie games for something that does extensive worldbuilding.

Personally I'd love a platformer that as much emphasis on the story and settings as The Thousand-Year Door, but it's a hard sell because it's a genre that's kind of prized for its immediacy. It's not fashionable to have lots of cutscenes and dialogue, but I think making large parts of your game skippable or making a sort of hybrid aimed at multiple possibly conflicting audiences is also something mainstream developers tend to be afraid of.
 
Quoted by: Me
1
My first thought is that 3D Platformers, Collectathons mostly excel in storytelling through smart use of the environment, to not distract from the gameplay experience too much.

These are games that are fun to pick up and play for a few minutes, a quick run, a single level.

Story could also be a progression reward, a bit like to how Rareware games handle them.

Maybe it is just that the genre is a very established one and no one really tried deviating from the unwritten rules, the safest route.
 
Quoted by: Me
1
My first thought is that 3D Platformers, Collectathons mostly excel in storytelling through smart use of the environment, to not distract from the gameplay experience too much.

These are games that are fun to pick up and play for a few minutes, a quick run, a single level.
That might explain why I feel like I'm going too fast with Spyro Reignited or Super Mario Galaxy but can slow down, stop and relax in Super Mario Sunshine levels. Well, except for Beach Bowl Galaxy. Love that place.

I haven't played any Rareware games so I'm not sure if they operate like Reignited where the story progresses from entering specific levels or a high egg count or if it's something like Rayman 2 where you just simply advance to the next area entirely.

I think it's always been kind of a taboo to do serious storytelling in a platformer for some reason, especially one that doesn't break the mold of looking cute and colorful. I'm sure it doesn't help that most notable attempts have been bad. Some long-running series have "lore" in the form of Easter Eggs for longtime fans which involve referencing or connecting past entries, like Kirby, but in general though it's almost unheard of for platformers to have extensive worldbuilding or character development. A big exception for the latter is Sly Cooper, but I think you probably have to look at indie games for something that does extensive worldbuilding.

Personally I'd love a platformer that as much emphasis on the story and settings as The Thousand-Year Door, but it's a hard sell because it's a genre that's kind of prized for its immediacy. It's not fashionable to have lots of cutscenes and dialogue, but I think making large parts of your game skippable or making a sort of hybrid aimed at multiple possibly conflicting audiences is also something mainstream developers tend to be afraid of.

That's a pretty good point. The only audiences I'm aware for platformers right off the top of my head are either casual gamers, completionists or speedrunners so it's a pretty tough balance. I guess I'm just the oddball completionist/local resident lore eater category.
 
Thinking about it a bit more, the PS2 platformers in general probably placed the most emphasis on storytelling and characters, but only the first Jak and Daxter was a collectathon, and I'm not sure how much worldbuilding any of them really bothered with.

I haven't played any Rareware games so I'm not sure if they operate like Reignited where the story progresses from entering specific levels or a high egg count or if it's something like Rayman 2 where you just simply advance to the next area entirely.
All three of Rare's collectathons are built similar to Mario 64, with levels accessed via a single hub world that you unlock over the course of the game. Conker is something different, though I'm not sure what exactly since I've never played it.

The collectathons all have less of a story than Spyro 2 or 3, but I'd say the Banjo games are better at NPCs and create more fleshed out worlds due to having fewer, larger levels. Spyro introducing all of the NPCs and minigames and stuff in 2 and 3 to begin with is basically a watered down attempt at being Banjo for some reason. Banjo-Kazooie is the collectathon, almost every single other one released after it is primarily inspired by this one game. Tooie is probably the collectathon I would say is heaviest on worldbuilding? Similar to Sunshine, the whole thing is on one island, but unlike Sunshine there are no portals, it's actually all heavily interconnected, with objectives and sequences of events spanning multiple worlds. It also maintains an unusually direct level of continuity with the first game.

Although, speaking of Rare games, and I have no idea why this didn't come to mind until just now, last year's Cavern of Dreams, the first Banjo clone to actually get Banjo, very much does do lore! Most of the game's storytelling is through surreal and lovingly detailed N64-styled environments and cards you can pick up which tell you about the pasts of the characters you meet. The immediate plot is very simplistic but you frequently stumble upon places where it's like "this has nothing to do with me, but I can tell something happened here." I actually really liked this approach, it's an adventure without combat with a simple premise seen through a child's eyes, but the world has a darker past unrelated to the current events, the idea that it exists beyond your character's comprehension and that you are in some sense sheltered from it as a child would be feels very effective. It's a short game, but well worth checking out if you're a fan of the genre, and it might be what you're looking for!
 
Quoted by: Me
1
Although, speaking of Rare games, and I have no idea why this didn't come to mind until just now, last year's Cavern of Dreams, the first Banjo clone to actually get Banjo, very much does do lore! Most of the game's storytelling is through surreal and lovingly detailed N64-styled environments and cards you can pick up which tell you about the pasts of the characters you meet. The immediate plot is very simplistic but you frequently stumble upon places where it's like "this has nothing to do with me, but I can tell something happened here." I actually really liked this approach, it's an adventure without combat with a simple premise seen through a child's eyes, but the world has a darker past unrelated to the current events, the idea that it exists beyond your character's comprehension and that you are in some sense sheltered from it as a child would be feels very effective. It's a short game, but well worth checking out if you're a fan of the genre, and it might be what you're looking for!
Gosh thank you for the suggestion because that sounds right up my alley and I think I can get it nearby under $15 so heck yeah. I love it when narratives have multiple perspectives going on in any way.

The collectathons all have less of a story than Spyro 2 or 3, but I'd say the Banjo games are better at NPCs and create more fleshed out worlds due to having fewer, larger levels. Spyro introducing all of the NPCs and minigames and stuff in 2 and 3 to begin with is basically a watered down attempt at being Banjo for some reason. Banjo-Kazooie is the collectathon, almost every single other one released after it is primarily inspired by this one game. Tooie is probably the collectathon I would say is heaviest on worldbuilding? Similar to Sunshine, the whole thing is on one island, but unlike Sunshine there are no portals, it's actually all heavily interconnected, with objectives and sequences of events spanning multiple worlds. It also maintains an unusually direct level of continuity with the first game.
I actually didn't realize Spyro took after Banjo-Kazooie so TIL

Also after looking at it online, I didn't realize how big Banjo-Tooie's world is oh my god. It's similar but so much bigger than Rayman 2
 
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