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Discussion Popular Brazilian podcast host, Bruno Aiub, fired after defending the creation of a Nazi Party

MetalLord

MetalLord

Paratroopa
emeatribune.com

EMEA TRIBUNE Breaking News, World News, Latest News

EMEA (Europe Middle East Africa) Tribune is an independently funded online news organization and a proud Google News Publisher
emeatribune.com emeatribune.com

Popular Brazilian podcast host, Bruno Aiub, also known as Monark, found himself at the center of a major scandal on Monday after he said a Nazi party should be “recognized by law” during his Flow Podcast — one of the most listened to in Brazil.

“If someone wants to be anti-Jewish, I think they have the right to be,” Aiub added. Amaral, a member of the Brazilian Socialist Party, rejected the host’s ideas. Kataguiri, representing the centrist Podemos Party, said that everyone should have a right to defend their views regardless of how “absurd” they are and “that should not be a crime,” according to newspaper El Universal.
 
Most brazilian liberals dreams of turning Brazil into the USA, so they go the "freedom of speech irrestrict" which conflicts with hate speech laws in the country.

Nazis deserves punches, not political parties
 
Just a small criticism. Next time say the persons name in the title and not someone else’s and then provide context for who this unknown person is in the body of your OP.

“Bruno Aiub fired after defending the creation of the Nazi party”

Who? click oh.

Otherwise the headline appears sensationalist and clickbaity

On mobile with my thumb in the right place the thread headline becomes

“Joe Rogan fired after defending the creation of a Nazi Party”
 
Did he had Bernie, Abby Martin, cornel west, David pakman, Kyle kulinski on his show so that we can call him a joe rogan?
 
Garlic said:
Somewhat disappointed it wasn't literally a Brazilian clone of Joe Rogan
Click to expand...
images
 
randomengine said:
Just a small criticism. Next time say the persons name in the title and not someone else’s and then provide context for who this unknown person is in the body of your OP.
Click to expand...

Complain to New York Times then =P

www.nytimes.com

Brazil’s Joe Rogan Faces His Own Firestorm Over Free Speech

Bruno Aiub became one of Brazil’s biggest podcasters with irreverent interviews of newsmakers. Now remarks about Nazis plunged him into a controversy akin to his idol’s.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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Pagan said:
You called him joe rogan. So I am asking if the Brazilian one had the same top notch left leaning guests. It's not really that hard to understand.
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He had way too much left leaning guests than he should have for his racist and stupid views, yes.

See above, even the NYT called him brazilian joe rogan
 
Platy said:
He had way too much left leaning guests than he should have for his racist and stupid views, yes.

See above, even the NYT called him brazilian joe rogan
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The nyt? Is this a joke. The warmongering, Wallstreet boot licking news outlet? That's where you get your news from? I would get it if you would get your news from the guardian or le monde but nyt??
 
Pagan said:
The nyt? Is this a joke. The warmongering, Wallstreet boot licking news outlet? That's where you get your news from? I would get it if you would get your news from the guardian or le monde but nyt??
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Yes, by definition any newspaper that interviews a person who is in favor of nazism is a piece of shit.
And the guardian is full of transphobic shit too.

Your point was that if the dude was a brazilian version of joe rogan, including getting left leaning guests. Yes he did got way more left leaning guests than he should because his podcast is huge. He is also not worth of ANY newspaper covered because, as i said, not only is he a racist anti science asshole, he is a neo nazi.
 
Platy said:
Yes, by definition any newspaper that interviews a person who is in favor of nazism is a piece of shit.
And the guardian is full of transphobic shit too.

Your point was that if the dude was a brazilian version of joe rogan, including getting left leaning guests. Yes he did got way more left leaning guests than he should because his podcast is huge. He is also not worth of ANY newspaper covered because, as i said, not only is he a racist anti science asshole, he is a neo nazi.
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The guardian is one of the most left leaning news papers in Europe among the msm. Together with "der Standard" in austria and le monde from France. I doubt that they are transphobic.
 
Pagan said:
The guardian is one of the most left leaning news papers in Europe among the msm. Together with "der Standard" in austria and le monde from France. I doubt that they are transphobic.
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They barely ever bother to advocate for social democracy never mind anything actually left wing. Tribune and Morning Star are examples of actually left wing British publications.

As for their transphobia the following article is the Guardian stating the Guardian's position on trans rights which amounts to 'both sides are wrong' which is transphobic

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian view on the Gender Recognition Act: where rights collide | Editorial

Editorial: It should be possible to advance trans equality without harming the interests of women. But a toxic debate has made it harder
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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crepuscule said:
They barely ever bother to advocate for social democracy never mind anything actually left wing. Tribune and Morning Star are examples of actually left wing British publications.

As for their transphobia the following article is the Guardian stating the Guardian's position on trans rights which amounts to 'both sides are wrong' which is transphobic

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian view on the Gender Recognition Act: where rights collide | Editorial

Editorial: It should be possible to advance trans equality without harming the interests of women. But a toxic debate has made it harder
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Lol at the guardian being called left leaning
 
randomengine said:
Just a small criticism. Next time say the persons name in the title and not someone else’s and then provide context for who this unknown person is in the body of your OP.

“Bruno Aiub fired after defending the creation of the Nazi party”

Who? click oh.

Otherwise the headline appears sensationalist and clickbaity

On mobile with my thumb in the right place the thread headline becomes

“Joe Rogan fired after defending the creation of a Nazi Party”
Click to expand...
Yeah, I got my hopes up and was disappointed.
 
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Please do not handwave the concerns of the trans community when voiced nor excuse transphobic stances. The toxic behaviour of terfs towards the trans community is not a case of equal sides participating in a conversation - Donnie, Hologram, Rika
crepuscule said:
They barely ever bother to advocate for social democracy never mind anything actually left wing. Tribune and Morning Star are examples of actually left wing British publications.

As for their transphobia the following article is the Guardian stating the Guardian's position on trans rights which amounts to 'both sides are wrong' which is transphobic

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian view on the Gender Recognition Act: where rights collide | Editorial

Editorial: It should be possible to advance trans equality without harming the interests of women. But a toxic debate has made it harder
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
So I just finish reading the article. Where exactly are the transphobic quotes you are talking about. Maybe I missed it. And the person before said that the guardian itself is transphobic. So they have a Phobia from trans people. The whole newspaper. Because of this article? And I checked again if I didn't miss anything. No the guardian is and was since the 90s a left leaning news paper. I know it because when my parents where in prison in turkeyn got tortured for being commies the guardian did write about it.
 
Pagan said:
So I just finish reading the article. Where exactly are the transphobic quotes you are talking about. Maybe I missed it. And the person before said that the guardian itself is transphobic. So they have a Phobia from trans people. The whole newspaper. Because of this article? And I checked again if I didn't miss anything. No the guardian is and was since the 90s a left leaning news paper. I know it because when my parents where in prison in turkeyn got tortured for being commies the guardian did write about it.
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This isn't just 'an article' it is the Guardian specifically explaining the Guardian's position.

If you cannot see the transphobia in it you aren't knowledgeable enough about transphobia and previous anti-LGBT movements which I'm not going to explain to you because I don't have the energy.

Here's one article I found which might explain it: https://newsocialist.org.uk/on-the-guardians-transphobic-centrism/

You'll be able to find plenty of others.

The Guardian (UK) is not left leaning, from what I've read of it it seems to be on okay with a reformed version of Blairist neoliberalism. Perhaps it was left-leaning in the 90s (I was born 97 so I wouldn't know) though one or even multiple good articles isn't enough to say that it was and it certainly isn't now regardless.
 
Absolutely incredible to have someone look at an article that says "It should be possible to advance trans equality without harming the interests of women", literally placing "All transgender people" and "women" in two separate categories, and claiming not to see any transphobia

The cis are absolutely wild
 
crepuscule said:
This isn't just 'an article' it is the Guardian specifically explaining the Guardian's position.

If you cannot see the transphobia in it you aren't knowledgeable enough about transphobia and previous anti-LGBT movements which I'm not going to explain to you because I don't have the energy.

Here's one article I found which might explain it: https://newsocialist.org.uk/on-the-guardians-transphobic-centrism/

You'll be able to find plenty of others.

The Guardian (UK) is not left leaning, from what I've read of it it seems to be on okay with a reformed version of Blairist neoliberalism. Perhaps it was left-leaning in the 90s (I was born 97 so I wouldn't know) though one or even multiple good articles isn't enough to say that it was and it certainly isn't now regardless.
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I got a warning for discussing this with you. Which should disturb you because the moderator is thinking that we are not able to discuss as mature people. So I will not engage anymore in any discussion here if it's not gaming related. As I said, I am comming from a hardliner commie family. And discussions about every issue is pretty normal in our family. But it seems like the moderators here are not familiar with a discussion and debate culture and threat some of you like a child. I am 100% sure that every single one of you could defend your positions very good but the moderator thinks otherwise. Good job Famiboards.
 
Pagan said:
I got a warning for discussing this with you. Which should disturb you because the moderator is thinking that we are not able to discuss as mature people. So I will not engage anymore in any discussion here if it's not gaming related. As I said, I am comming from a hardliner commie family. And discussions about every issue is pretty normal in our family. But it seems like the moderators here are not familiar with a discussion and debate culture and threat some of you like a child. I am 100% sure that every single one of you could defend your positions very good but the moderator thinks otherwise. Good job Famiboards.
Click to expand...
images
 
blatant transphobia
Cis: This is not transphobic
Several trans people: Yes it is
Cis: why won't anyone debate me
 
Pagan said:
I got a warning for discussing this with you. Which should disturb you because the moderator is thinking that we are not able to discuss as mature people. So I will not engage anymore in any discussion here if it's not gaming related. As I said, I am comming from a hardliner commie family. And discussions about every issue is pretty normal in our family. But it seems like the moderators here are not familiar with a discussion and debate culture and threat some of you like a child. I am 100% sure that every single one of you could defend your positions very good but the moderator thinks otherwise. Good job Famiboards.
Click to expand...
For whatever reason I believe that you are discussing in good faith but the difficult fact is that ignorance is hard to distinguish from malice which cloaks itself in ignorance in order to subtly move neutral observers toward its malicious position. Such malice can and in many cases has taken over online communities. And so one of the jobs of moderators is to prevent that. And that job, allowing discussion while preventing subversion is extremely hard. I think that warning was very much justified. As are btw the reactions of others who have no doubt experienced people posting very much like you who were merely pretending to be ignorant. And I'm not sure that last bit doesn't apply to you as well.

The best thing you can do if you are truly being genuine is to educate yourself to at least some degree before participating in conservation about things you are ignorant of.
 
crepuscule said:
For whatever reason I believe that you are discussing in good faith but the difficult fact is that ignorance is hard to distinguish from malice which cloaks itself in ignorance in order to subtly move neutral observers toward its malicious position. S
Click to expand...

If he was discussing in good faith he would have stayed on topic and not ignored the arguments that he started (that Flow/Bruno Aiub did received lots of left leaning guests because his podcast is super famous because he IS brazil's version of Joe Rogan), let alone being a person who calls himself a communist and still think middle side positions are not just shit to minorities.

This literally started because he was like "this newspaper that gave a spotlight to a dude who defends nazi stuff is shit". I mean, ORLY ? Do you think i was DEFENDING the newspaper ?
 
It's quite interesting that a topic about Monark has fallen into a much different discussion.
For the people from other country, Monark has lots of other polemic comments over the last year and the nazi party defense was basically the point without return for him. I'm not one to think people can't be forgiven, but this guy has been given too much good faith already (as someone said previously, his podcast was massive in Brazil, and the fact that he was only cancelled now is what truly amazes me)
 
I think we need to be mindful that not everyone is on the same tier on the path towards enlightenment and so we all need to be a bit more open to figuring out where people are on a given topic and having a discussion that elevates rather than getting in the habit of tearing people down who aren't on the same wavelength. Often, and I include myself in this, posters in this forum come off as very adversarial and judgmental.

We should be more empathic and understanding of people who are good intentioned. Progress is a ladder and some rungs take effort and rather than putting spikes on the rungs, we should be extending a hand to help people achieve a greater understanding.

Are we expected to bring arguments which are fully formed and hold under the scrutiny or can we, in conjunction with our fellow forum posters, work out these arguments and arrive at conclusions that are beneficial to everyone? I often think the community believes any hint of deviation must be trolling of some kind. In fact we are all human beings who take various paths to understand complex topics. I hope nobody here claims to know everything about everything. Why do we have to be so angry at people so hastily?
 
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the conversations we have here reflect the power dynamics of the world at large. as such, oppressed groups should be centered and protected in these conversations; both generally and specifically when it comes to issues that affect them directly. everyone has growing to do, but folks can do that growing without speaking loudly and ignorantly on issues that don’t impact them
 
one week ban: history of entering threads, defending bad actors, receiving negative responses, and dipping out after riling people up. - blondkayvon, BozPaggs, Donnie, Rika
SlumWolf said:
the conversations we have here reflect the power dynamics of the world at large. as such, oppressed groups should be centered and protected in these conversations; both generally and specifically when it comes to issues that affect them directly. everyone has growing to do, but folks can do that growing without speaking loudly and ignorantly on issues that don’t impact them
Click to expand...
At the end of the day are we just punishing people, being punitive to people, who are loud and ignorant?

Part of the problem is that we don't know who is who. We cannot assume everyone who is speaking on a topic is best to represent that topic. Moreover, we cannot also assume that a member of such a group has the best argument for that group.

I am a cis-white-hetero-male about as privileged as you can get. I care deeply about the rights and experience of those who are unlike me - because I hate bullying. I want to help, so I've spent a great deal of time educating myself and trying to be better at understanding. That said, people like me have an important place in this conversation as we are the allies required to make these kinds of oppression end. It's important to stand your ground and express your position in an assertive manner as a member of an oppressed group, but to those that may not get it - why be so cantankerous? Maybe it's just the exhaustion from trying to obtain justice, but hell, can't we just be nicer to each other while achieving the same goals?

Now I looked up tone policing and I will be the first to be a victim of it. I am not suggesting you not be passionate about this. I am a very passionate person too. So I am not saying don't be passionate. I am saying if you want allies, you should actively try to make them. You don't make allies of people already fully on your side. You make allies of people who express an interest and effort in coming to your side and you help them understand what it means to be an ally. You do it with kindness and understanding.

Or is this just a place were we warn and beat people down without helping them achieve a greater understanding?
 
randomengine said:
I think we need to be mindful that not everyone is on the same tier on the path towards enlightenment and so we all need to be a bit more open to figuring out where people are on a given topic and having a discussion that elevates rather than getting in the habit of tearing people down who aren't on the same wavelength. Often, and I include myself in this, posters in this forum come off as very adversarial and judgmental.

We should be more empathic and understanding of people who are good intentioned. Progress is a ladder and some rungs take effort and rather than putting spikes on the rungs, we should be extending a hand to help people achieve a greater understanding.

Are we expected to bring arguments which are fully formed and hold under the scrutiny or can we, in conjunction with our fellow forum posters, work out these arguments and arrive at conclusions that are beneficial to everyone? I often think the community believes any hint of deviation must be trolling of some kind. In fact we are all human beings who take various paths to understand complex topics. I hope nobody here claims to know everything about everything. Why do we have to be so angry at people so hastily?
Click to expand...

Just waking up and seeing this kind of argument being repeated isn't how I wanted to start my day, but oh well!

Let's go over what's happened here! It was brought up that a newspaper was transphobic. "Ally" claims it is not transphobic. They are then presented with an incredibly transphobic article as proof. So what does our "ally" do from there? Do they take the time to understand the perspectives of the queer users? No, they insist that the transgender people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to what's transphobic and what's not. They believe themselves to be an authority on transphobia more than people who have actually experienced it.

So they get a warning. Not even a ban, but a warning, that what they are doing is dismissive to the trans community here, and that they are in fact defending a transphobic article and paper. So what happens then? One would think that an "ally" to the LGBT community would stop for a moment and say, "My actions might actually be hurtful to the community that I'm trying to help. Maybe I can't see how it's transphobic, but I should trust the people who do." Or perhaps even apologize and say, "I didn't understand how this was hurtful to you." Instead, our "ally" takes their ball and goes home because they're expecting the queers to debate them. This person doesn't sound like much of an ally to trans people at all. Weird!

Beyond this person obviously not being an ally, it's not my job, or the job of any queer person, to educate anyone, and we shouldn't be expected to. But when we do go out of our way to explain these things to so-called allies, we expect you to be understanding and listen. If you think you know better about our lives and experiences than ourselves, you are not an ally.


randomengine said:
I am a cis-white-hetero-male about as privileged as you can get.
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Believe me, it shows! The fact that you are more concerned about this "ally" leaving the thread after everything had transpired than the actual trans community on the forum speaks volumes. It has some real "The 'A' in LGBTQA is for ally!" energy.
 
thanks, Clov.

I generally find the "why not be nicer to allies" argument to be very tiring. all I really have to say is many of us are already doing that emotional labor, sometimes unwillingly, sometimes without our safety guaranteed, simply by living our lives every day. and it largely doesn't happen on video game forums.

perhaps ask yourself why you think it's the responsibility of the oppressed to help people "understand what it means to be an ally". I do what I can, but a recognition of that power imbalance needs to happen, and in that, a recognition of a difference in capacity
 
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randomengine said:
At the end of the day are we just punishing people, being punitive to people, who are loud and ignorant?

Part of the problem is that we don't know who is who. We cannot assume everyone who is speaking on a topic is best to represent that topic. Moreover, we cannot also assume that a member of such a group has the best argument for that group.

I am a cis-white-hetero-male about as privileged as you can get. I care deeply about the rights and experience of those who are unlike me - because I hate bullying. I want to help, so I've spent a great deal of time educating myself and trying to be better at understanding. That said, people like me have an important place in this conversation as we are the allies required to make these kinds of oppression end. It's important to stand your ground and express your position in an assertive manner as a member of an oppressed group, but to those that may not get it - why be so cantankerous? Maybe it's just the exhaustion from trying to obtain justice, but hell, can't we just be nicer to each other while achieving the same goals?

Now I looked up tone policing and I will be the first to be a victim of it. I am not suggesting you not be passionate about this. I am a very passionate person too. So I am not saying don't be passionate. I am saying if you want allies, you should actively try to make them. You don't make allies of people already fully on your side. You make allies of people who express an interest and effort in coming to your side and you help them understand what it means to be an ally. You do it with kindness and understanding.

Or is this just a place were we warn and beat people down without helping them achieve a greater understanding?
Click to expand...

Dawg, this is an incredibly foolish thing for you to be saying. The whole point of a warning system is to indicate when someone is about to cross the line. What is your issue with that? Is that not precisely in service of what you want? The very existence of this system is an alternative to bans. If an ally responds to being warned about their behavior, then they are not receptive. They are not allies, and tone policing people for telling them when they're wrong is crap.
 
randomengine said:
At the end of the day are we just punishing people, being punitive to people, who are loud and ignorant?

Part of the problem is that we don't know who is who. We cannot assume everyone who is speaking on a topic is best to represent that topic. Moreover, we cannot also assume that a member of such a group has the best argument for that group.

I am a cis-white-hetero-male about as privileged as you can get. I care deeply about the rights and experience of those who are unlike me - because I hate bullying. I want to help, so I've spent a great deal of time educating myself and trying to be better at understanding. That said, people like me have an important place in this conversation as we are the allies required to make these kinds of oppression end. It's important to stand your ground and express your position in an assertive manner as a member of an oppressed group, but to those that may not get it - why be so cantankerous? Maybe it's just the exhaustion from trying to obtain justice, but hell, can't we just be nicer to each other while achieving the same goals?

Now I looked up tone policing and I will be the first to be a victim of it. I am not suggesting you not be passionate about this. I am a very passionate person too. So I am not saying don't be passionate. I am saying if you want allies, you should actively try to make them. You don't make allies of people already fully on your side. You make allies of people who express an interest and effort in coming to your side and you help them understand what it means to be an ally. You do it with kindness and understanding.

Or is this just a place were we warn and beat people down without helping them achieve a greater understanding?
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Why did you think posting this was a good idea?
 
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More and more I think the term "ally" is useless at best and actively detrimental at worst.

Anyway, this thread had like, 5 turns in a single page. I think the implication that Joe Rogan is a left-leaning individual though is the biggest headscratcher.
 
Mekanos said:
More and more I think the term "ally" is useless at best and actively detrimental at worst.
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Referring to oneself as an "ally" has always rubbed me the wrong way. It just seems like a nice way for someone to pat themselves on the back, while doing little to nothing to honor the marginalized voices they claim to support.

I think there's far more weight in being dubbed an ally by someone who is actually a part of those communities, and views you as such, than there is in being a self-proclaimed "ally". If you're striving to be a certain type of person, others will take note. No need to tell them what you think you are.
 
Think I know some Brazilians who might take some fucking issue with that defense of yours Bruno.

 
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Platy said:
Most brazilian liberals dreams of turning Brazil into the USA, so they go the "freedom of speech irrestrict" which conflicts with hate speech laws in the country.

Nazis deserves punches, not political parties
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You know what they say, "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds"
Aurc said:
Referring to oneself as an "ally" has always rubbed me the wrong way. It just seems like a nice way for someone to pat themselves on the back, while doing little to nothing to honor the marginalized voices they claim to support.

I think there's far more weight in being dubbed an ally by someone who is actually a part of those communities, and views you as such, than there is in being a self-proclaimed "ally". If you're striving to be a certain type of person, others will take note. No need to tell them what you think you are.
Click to expand...
I've recently been loving the phrase 'accomplices, not allies' for this reason. I don't want "allies", I want people who will bash the fash when needed
 
Pagan said:
I got a warning for discussing this with you. Which should disturb you because the moderator is thinking that we are not able to discuss as mature people. So I will not engage anymore in any discussion here if it's not gaming related. As I said, I am comming from a hardliner commie family. And discussions about every issue is pretty normal in our family. But it seems like the moderators here are not familiar with a discussion and debate culture and threat some of you like a child. I am 100% sure that every single one of you could defend your positions very good but the moderator thinks otherwise. Good job Famiboards.
Click to expand...
There is no debate about what you are talking about though. You're trying to say that trans people should have to "debate" about why we deserve rights with people writing articles like that.
 
There is a very thin line between freedom of speech and hate speech. Also, it is very difficult to regulate it, and who is to decide what is what? To what extent are people allowed to express their views, and even if a far-right extremist does it but gets support from other people, are they entitled to the right to discuss it? I am not supporting his views; I am just thinking about the interpretation of free speech. There are several big Podcast Hosting Services. Do you think they have the right to block this kind of information on their platforms?
 
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