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StarTopic Luigi's Mansion 2 HD |ST|

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E.Gadd said:
I just think the NLG making every game meme is funny and expect it to keep happening until a Luigi's Mansion 4 gets announced(and watch them not confirm NLG then too!:ROFLMAO:)
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In parallel to the "Zelda remakes to Luigi's Mansion remake" pipeline as seen by Grezzo and Tantalus, Luigi's Mansion 4 will be done by Omega Force, following their work on the Hyrule Warriors duology.
 
mazi said:
there's so many 3DS games they could port still, really hope they have plans for them well into the switch 2 generation. they can keep releasing them as cross-gen titles.
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I think that will be the "wii u ports" of the switch 2. On one hand there are less blockbusters than the Wii U but since they are somewhat smaller they might require less resources (also depends on their 3ds implementation).
 
Supreme Bum 01 said:
what? lol they touched up some stuff but its clearly not rebuilt. still a lot of bland textures throughout
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The art style of LM2 doesn't really require super impressive texture work though. Luigi's overalls have textures that did not exist on the 3DS version. Plus, we're also dealing with vastly improved geometry, shadows, reflections, and lighting throughout. Yet, it's still got that LM2 aesthetic, which was the whole point without resorting to a full on remake.

I also noticed all the floors in the Mansion have actual depth this time around versus looking like a flat texture. So this isn't some touch up job, but I think we can argue something similar with DKCR HD as geometry has also been improved, plus lighting, shadows, and such. The initial trailer for that does leave some things to be desired for sure, but that is also coming out early next year, so plenty of time to fix some of the graphical issues pointed out by others.
 
Jersh said:
If the rumors are accurate Nintendo's been sitting on them for years now, far longer than they've been known to sit on finished games.

They're probably not real.
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They may have been seated enough for Nintendo to just include crossgen versions
 
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Shoulder said:
The art style of LM2 doesn't really require super impressive texture work though. Luigi's overalls have textures that did not exist on the 3DS version. Plus, we're also dealing with vastly improved geometry, shadows, reflections, and lighting throughout. Yet, it's still got that LM2 aesthetic, which was the whole point without resorting to a full on remake.

I also noticed all the floors in the Mansion have actual depth this time around versus looking like a flat texture. So this isn't some touch up job, but I think we can argue something similar with DKCR HD as geometry has also been improved, plus lighting, shadows, and such. The initial trailer for that does leave some things to be desired for sure, but that is also coming out early next year, so plenty of time to fix some of the graphical issues pointed out by others.
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I think you are overselling the improvement. They improved some things but it's still a port and nothing like other instances where the assets have been completely redone, like Metroid Prime Remastered.
 
Supreme Bum 01 said:
what? lol they touched up some stuff but its clearly not rebuilt. still a lot of bland textures throughout
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Bland doesn't mean not rebuilt. They're clearly rebuilt. If you think it's not rebuilt then you have very rose tinted memories of the original game.

Edited to add: I've annotated the images below, you probably want to blow them up to read all my dumb scribblings



These textures have a lot of detail, and there is no match between the 3DS and Switch versions. Every single one of these textures was rebuilt, clearly by hand.


There are plenty of untextured objects on 3DS, where its just a color fill, replaced by an actual texture showing detail. On what is obviously a new 3D model. In fact, lots of new 3D models


It's a total rework of Egads model, and considering he didn't have finger joints in the original, new animations. It's everywhere


Preserving the look of this game when uprezzing required generating new assets that stood up to a much larger screen at much higher resolution, but didn't break the old look, which is built around not a lot of texture detail. These textures are bland, I'm not disagreeing with you. But they're brand new bland instead of old bland.

It's possible - in fact, likely - that a lot of these assets were put through some kind of upscaler as the basis for having them redrawn. Maybe a really good AI upscaler got a lot of the repeating patterned textures (like carpets), close. But there isn't a one to one mapping of details between the two, which is how you can tell they're not just upscaled textures, but redrawn.
 
oldpuck said:
Bland doesn't mean not rebuilt. They're clearly rebuilt. If you think it's not rebuilt then you have very rose tinted memories of the original game.

Edited to add: I've annotated the images below, you probably want to blow them up to read all my dumb scribblings



These textures have a lot of detail, and there is no match between the 3DS and Switch versions. Every single one of these textures was rebuilt, clearly by hand.


There are plenty of untextured objects on 3DS, where its just a color fill, replaced by an actual texture showing detail. On what is obviously a new 3D model. In fact, lots of new 3D models


It's a total rework of Egads model, and considering he didn't have finger joints in the original, new animations. It's everywhere


Preserving the look of this game when uprezzing required generating new assets that stood up to a much larger screen at much higher resolution, but didn't break the old look, which is built around not a lot of texture detail. These textures are bland, I'm not disagreeing with you. But they're brand new bland instead of old bland.

It's possible - in fact, likely - that a lot of these assets were put through some kind of upscaler as the basis for having them redrawn. Maybe a really good AI upscaler got a lot of the repeating patterned textures (like carpets), close. But there isn't a one to one mapping of details between the two, which is how you can tell they're not just upscaled textures, but redrawn.
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Hi nice annotations. What I mean to say is that it's not a complete re-work. The original post I replied to said it was an almost complete rework, which I am not seeing. And we have examples of it like Metroid Prime. It's not the same thing. Obviously there are some parts that are redone, especially Luigi and the professor. Those were obvious from the get go and logical given how much you look at this in the game. You pointed out some good environmental improvements, as does the Digital Foundary video from this morning. You can find examples that are improved in any screenshot so far. But an 'almost complete rework' is overstating it when they're are jillions of assets in the game. How about all the other stuff you didn't annotate?
 
Supreme Bum 01 said:
Hi nice annotations. What I mean to say is that it's not a complete re-work. The original post I replied to said it was an almost complete rework, which I am not seeing. And we have examples of it like Metroid Prime. It's not the same thing. Obviously there are some parts that are redone, especially Luigi and the professor. Those were obvious from the get go and logical given how much you look at this in the game. You pointed out some good environmental improvements, as does the Digital Foundary video from this morning. You can find examples that are improved in any screenshot so far. But an 'almost complete rework' is overstating it when they're are jillions of assets in the game. How about all the other stuff you didn't annotate?
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The stuff I didn't annotate is also all replaced. Obviously, I've not played the game, but because of this discussion, I went through all the footage that's out there. I found exactly two textures that could conceivably be AI uprezzed, without a retouch. And I can't speak to every model, because I don't have the game to meticulously zoom into, but at least all the character models, and a surprising amount of incidental models, have been upgraded. I can find zero matching assets.

I'm not saying they're remade to an exceptionally high quality. I happen to think some of the new textures look quite bad, in fact. But they are undoubtably new.

The statement I made was "every asset was rebuilt" and it was in response to the idea that Tantalus does barebones remasters, like Skyward Sword HD. In SSHD, some textures were given what looked like an AI upscale, but otherwise, all the assets are original. These are not original assets. I'm not saying there are no original assets in the game, but if there are, they're very hidden
 
Supreme Bum 01 said:
I think you are overselling the improvement. They improved some things but it's still a port and nothing like other instances where the assets have been completely redone, like Metroid Prime Remastered.
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I think we have different definitions on what a “port” is. Red Dead Redemption on Switch? That is a port. Okami HD? That, too, is a port. In fact, in the case of Okami HD, LM2HD is more of a remastering than Okami HD, which was really just improved texture assets, but nothing else was improved outside of resolution. It is a similar situation we saw with Twilight Princess HD on Wii U, and no one would mistaken that as a port vs. a remaster.

If Metroid Prime Remastered is too God tier as a remaster, then let’s use Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition instead. All assets were improved, much like what we see with LM2HD, though the art style actually did change slightly due to the cel-shaded aspects. But, we don’t really consider it a full on remake. By contrast, Super Mario RPG is truly a full on remake.

If we take all the games I mentioned in this very post, and put them into a scale from Port to Remake, it would look something like this:

Red Dead Redemption Switch - Twilight Princess HD - Okami HD - LM2HD - XCDE - MPR - SMRPG

Seven games total I mentioned, and LM2HD happens to be smack dab in the middle. It is a great middle ground between a straight up port, and a full on remake. Enough has improved from the original to make it look great for the platform, but without changing the whole structure of the game entirely.
 
Wockio said:
The remastering work on those games is already done, porting them should be relatively simple
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Ok? Someone's still gotta do it and one of the devs who could do it were busy with another game. So it's either someone else (but who?) or those rumors of WW and TP just being sat on for years is bullshit.
 
Supreme Bum 01 said:
I think you are overselling the improvement. They improved some things but it's still a port and nothing like other instances where the assets have been completely redone, like Metroid Prime Remastered.
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Luigi's Mansion 2 HD is confirmed by Nintendo to be a full remaster unlike the Legend of Zelda: Skyword Sword HD, which was confirmed to be an upscaled port.
 
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Supreme Bum 01 said:
I don't want to quibble about what to call it. To me it's a mediocre port not worth 60 bucks but I acknowledge a lot of assets were redone.
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Unavoidable given the source console is the 3DS which has about half the resolution of the Wii so assets could even be lower quality.

I think generally, people expecting 3DS ports to be 'easy' may be mistaken and a lot of assets will have to be redone, and polygon meshes updated just to bring it up to what people remembered these games as, not what they actually were.

Then to meet expectations of a remake, you then have to do a lot more work on top.

It's almost full remake at that point.
If people want cheaper updates, it would have to be remasters like LM2HD.

Tantalus do good work and I really don't like some of the discourse around the game almost blaming them for it being $60, or their work not being good enough. They very likely did the work to the scope given to them by Nintendo

TBH another reason for Nintendo not to reveal who is working on outsourced projects
 
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Spyder said:
Ok? Someone's still gotta do it and one of the devs who could do it were busy with another game. So it's either someone else (but who?) or those rumors of WW and TP just being sat on for years is bullshit.
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Either the games exist but if you wait for Switch 2, you can release an HD version on Switch 1 and a 4K version on Switch 2, which is both good for your installed base and good for your new hardware. I expect several crossgen ports in the next two years. F-Zero GX and Starfox Assault, for example, offer a unique opportunity to revitalize these two IPs, which have had no presence on Switch.
 
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Supreme Bum 01 said:
Hi nice annotations. What I mean to say is that it's not a complete re-work.
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What are you basing this on? Almost everything looks to have been replaced or remodeled
Supreme Bum 01 said:
The original post I replied to said it was an almost complete rework, which I am not seeing. And we have examples of it like Metroid Prime. It's not the same thing.
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Metroid Prime Remastered is higher fidelity but that isn't what you were arguing. Most of Luigi's Mansion 2 looks rebuilt. They just aimed for lower fidelity because the original game wasn't extremely high detail so their choices were focused on keeping the visual make up similar while not breaking the bank.
Supreme Bum 01 said:
Obviously there are some parts that are redone, especially Luigi and the professor. Those were obvious from the get go and logical given how much you look at this in the game. You pointed out some good environmental improvements, as does the Digital Foundary video from this morning. You can find examples that are improved in any screenshot so far. But an 'almost complete rework' is overstating it when they're are jillions of assets in the game. How about all the other stuff you didn't annotate?
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How do you know? You haven't offered a single counter point here. No ome can be expected to draw circles and annonate every texture and model detail. Doing visual comparisons, it's obvious the game has been redone.
 
Responding to you three together -- my example is that even the Digital Foundry review says that a lot of the geometry is unchanged in some areas. It has new textures and higher resolution but to me that's not enough to call something a 'complete or near complete rework' if so much of the geometry is the same but with new art plastered on it. We have examples like Metroid Prime Remastered that shows us what is a complete or near complete rework look like (and I'm not just talking about quality of textures). Even if they are using AI in some areas like Xenoblade definitive edition that's still cutting some corners due to how they turn out sometimes (probably unavoidable in a big game like that, less so for smaller games).

What Nintendo choses to call something or market it as is irrelevant. What matters is what the final product actually is. You all seem to think it's a near complete rework. All I'm saying is I don't think a near complete rework is a good way to describe it and that I personally don't like the look of it or think it's worth 60 dollars. I haven't gone beyond that.

Some parts are completely redone, geometry and all, especially things that you will see constantly, like Luigi and the professor. Of course they did that. They replaced a lot of the art. Great work. I understand that the new art style fits the original. It doesn't look good to me but that was the stylistic choice they made and I can see why.

Ultimately we are going off of a few video clips and the Digital Foundry review that only played the first few missions. I think if the first few missions already have a bunch of old geometry that doesn't bode well for the rest if the game. But it remains to be seen. If the rest if the game has a ton of new geometry and art, then that speaks for itself. But maybe later areas got less of a touch up, which is common in development ss developers prioritize what everyone is most likely to see. We will see.

I think some of these other comments about this being unavoidable for a 3DS game is kind of having low expectations and handwaving away the issue. If Nintendo wanted to make a really nice looking 3DS rerelease they could do so. I don't think that work is easy or should be easy or cheap. Also, it's not cheap -- it's 60 dollars. This shouldn't be the target produxt or price for this type of remaster. If it's not in the timeline or budget to do better then that's understandable but they could do it and might someday if it was a really important game. Every 3DS port or remaster should look great and it's okay to criticize a game when it doesn't.

When I talk about the game being just a port I am also talking about the lack of features and content. Usually there is some small token boss rush or harder difficulty or something. From what we have seen literally the largest change they made was to rename the multi-player mode.

Another thing is I have never criticized Tantalus. Whatever budget, timeline, directives, and feedback were provided are all on Nintendo. I have already ridiculed people in another topic for their whining about outsourcing and who the developer is and made the same point about why it's rational for Nintendo to not want to share the their partner before the game is released. The quality of LM2HD and the price tag are because of Nintendo and there is no evidence that Tantalus has done anything wrong.

So basically in summary I think that:

- it's not right to call it a complete rework given the amount of geometry that is the same as the original. I understand that others are satisfied by the amount of new geometry and textures and that's fine.

- I don't think it looks good. If people disagree or think they made the right stylistic choice given the original game, then that's fine. To say that's all it ever was or could be is having low expectations for consumer products.
 
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Happy Luigi's Mansion 2 HD Release Day to you all! I hope those that play the game, whether it is your first time or you will be revisiting the title with this version, have a great time playing it! I am personally very excited to start the game once I find the time to today! :D
 
Loving the revisit so far. Looks great on the OLED screen. Lost of graphical updates, big and small,, across the board. A step up for Tantalus HD remasters. Easiest recommendation if you have never played it and like the other two
 
Still playing Monkey Ball, so probably won't pick this one up until later. I was on the fence for it but... I do love some Luigi's Mansion, even if it is my least favorite of the 3. It's still a good time.
 
Honestly, the whole debate between whether games are “ports” or “remasters” or “remakes” seems kind of pointless. At this point, it’s pretty much a semantic issue in which we’re arguing over which increasingly-arbitrary label we’re using to designate games. Plus, there’s a lot of overlap between these terms, and there’s not always a defined solution.

I propose a new and improved system, which I’m calling the “Re-Scale™️” (patent pending). With this system, rather than giving them arbitrary labels, we assign re-releases with a score between 0 and 10:

0 being a straight port with absolutely no enhancements or alterations;

and 10 being a complete remake from the ground-up.

With the Re-Scale™️, you can take all sorts of different factors into account, such as improved visuals, remade assets, reorchestrated music, additional content or bonuses, new menus, or anything else that you think is relevant. Note that this isn’t a system to gauge the overall quality of a game; it’s simply to distinguish the amount of effort within the re-release. Of course, we can discuss what scores each game deserves.

Using this system, I would give Luigi’s Mansion 2 HD a score of 2/10 on the Re-Scale™️. It has some touched-up assets and enhanced visuals, but by and large, it is almost the exact game we already saw on 3DS.

This is actually kind of fun and I might use this more often
 
I probably would've skipped this but I had a gift card and it's one of the few multiplayer games supporting local wireless for something unique, I'll probably enjoy revisiting this more than Paper Mario but we'll see 🤔 Some time I want to make a thread calling out Luigi's Mansion 3's scarescraper mode for how much weirdly worse it is than this game's, this'll be a good refresh.
 
Just picked up the game. Very excited to revisit it. Played it many times over the years but I've definitely forgotten much of it now. The Walmart I went to had a buttload of em so I guess they're expecting big things from this game.
 
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This game is so weird. Sometimes I'm like. Damn! This game looks great! And then any sort of particle effect or water shows up and I'm like. Damn! This game doesn't look great! Also does this game use anti aliasing? It kinda seems like it does. It's pretty smooth looking for me at least. Though maybe the art style being so angular is hiding a lot of jaggy edges. Also this game has AGGRESSIVE stereo audio effects lol. It's really drastic, moving horizontally across rooms you just get a wave of sounds ear to ear, at least with headphones. Interesting choice for sure.
 
Cleared the first two mansions and can safely say I prefer LM2 to 3. Gameplay is faster and snappier, the lack of the slam means combat has some teeth, money has practical use, and I'd even say the aesthetic isn't appreciated enough for retaining some of the first game's gothic charm through its decrepit, dilapidated environments.

The mission structure is so frequently criticized but when it's used to alter the maps or provide some new challenge in an existing area, it shines. The only significant drawback to me is that the Boos really shouldn't be limited to one per mission and just be tallied per mansion, but that's how it worked in 2013 and they're not changing it here any time soon.
 
Maybe it's just because I'm bored, maybe it's just because I have an extra voucher, maybe it's because of the positive Digital Foundry video, or maybe it's just because I'm sick Nintendo fan, but suddenly I'm interested in getting this game. Even though I beat it on 3DS and truly find this franchise to only be "alright" to my tastes. 😑
carbvan said:
This game is so weird. Sometimes I'm like. Damn! This game looks great! And then any sort of particle effect or water shows up and I'm like. Damn! This game doesn't look great! Also does this game use anti aliasing? It kinda seems like it does. It's pretty smooth looking for me at least. Though maybe the art style being so angular is hiding a lot of jaggy edges. Also this game has AGGRESSIVE stereo audio effects lol. It's really drastic, moving horizontally across rooms you just get a wave of sounds ear to ear, at least with headphones. Interesting choice for sure.
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I believe the Digital Foundry video said the game uses anti-aliasing and that as a result its image quality is among the cleanest on Switch.
 
kirbyfan407 said:
Maybe it's just because I'm bored, maybe it's just because I have an extra voucher, maybe it's because of the positive Digital Foundry video, or maybe it's just because I'm sick Nintendo fan, but suddenly I'm interested in getting this game. Even though I beat it on 3DS and truly find this franchise to only be "alright" to my tastes. 😑

I believe the Digital Foundry video said the game uses anti-aliasing and that as a result its image quality is among the cleanest on Switch.
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🐈‍⬛ it's fun and sometimes ok games are real good cos a game dont have to be amazing!!!!!!!!!
 
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