Discussion For the experts on Nintendo's history, is it known why Nintendo games appeared on the Atari 7800 (NES direct competitor)?

[ILovethegameAC]

There is something that has puzzled me for years, and that's why Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong JR and Mario Bros. appeared on the Atari 7800 in 1988 in the US, which was a competitor for the NES at the time. I do know that around 5 years earlier these 3 games, as well as Nintendo's Popeye, got multiple ports on many consoles and computers, but that was before the NES was released outside of Japan so it made total sense, but here the NES was already out and at the peak of it's popularity in the US, so is really strange to see them still getting ports on other consoles and not being just NES exclusives now. It's basically the only time alogside the CDI disaster where Nintendo allowed their ip's to appear on a rival console.

I want to know if any of you have heard why this happened. I at first thought that it maybe was because Atari in fact had the license for these 3 games 5 years earlier and they somehow still had it active, but that seems unlikely since their license for the 2 DK games was only for computers, since Coleco had it for consoles, and it's rare that they would do these ports as late as 1988 and not around the launch of the 7800.

 

[chocolate_supra]

I don't have an answer to this but I do think the timing is funny that you're asking this just a day after youtube recommended this commercial to me:



In addition to the weirdness of hearing "Mario Brothers, from Atari" (with no mention of Nintendo at all), it also might very well be the first mention of Mario on western TV, seeing as how it aired in 1983.

 

[Mbolibombo]

We need to remember that the Atari released a lot earlier than the Famicom and even more so than the NES.

They also released DK on many different home computers Like the Spectrum and Intellivision - prior to the NES releasing. They released games on many systems, because they didnt have their own system world wide at the time.

 

[Stilt Village]

The only thing I can think of is that the 7800 was meant to launch in 1984, but got delayed two years, so it's possible the deal for these was made before Nintendo established the NES in America, even if they didn't end up actually being developed until much later?

It's also worth noting that Nintendo didn't become insanely strict about this stuff overnight. Nowadays the idea of Mario on PC sounds crazy, but there were a lot of random licensed Mario games for various home computer platforms all the way up until 1996, it's just that none of them became as famous as Hotel Mario. (Even if perhaps they should have...)

 

[ReyVGM]

I suppose back then companies weren't as jealous about their IPs as they are now.

Remember that Nintendo also allowed Software Toolworks to release educational Mario titles for the PC during the 90s. And Sega allowed some of their titles to be released on the NES all the way up to 1989, even though the Master System and the NES were direct competitors and the Genesis was already out.

 

[PixelKnight]

I suppose back then companies weren't as jealous about their IPs as they are now.

Remember that Nintendo also allowed Software Toolworks to release educational Mario titles for the PC during the 90s. And Sega allowed some of their titles to be released on the NES all the way up to 1989, even though the Master System and the NES were direct competitors and the Genesis was already out.

I think there’s this element to it- stuff like Mario Bros and DK wasn’t a 40-year IP with stacks of games behind it at that point, they were just arcade ports being thrown at any home system they could.

 

[BassForever]

Probably some mix of the following

Nintendo being much more willing to sign deals with other home console and pc manufacturers in the 80's/early 90's as they were still figuring out their place in the rapidly going video game industry.

Nintendo might have signed some kind of multiyear deal with Atari for arcade ports to "Atari consoles" which would allow Atari to release games like DK on the Atari 7800 even after the NES was on the market.

Nintendo was hedging their bets in the US market. We know Nintendo had some issues originally selling the NES in NA after the US based console crash. Letting Atari who had been the leader of the NA scene get the rights to stuff like Donkey Kong again was probably a low risk high reward if the NES flopped and the 7800 did well.

Nintendo being looser with who they'd let license content in the 80's and 90's. Others have mentioned the many edutainment, pc titles, and cdi games, but this was also when Nintendo was pushing hard with multiple kids cartoon shows like Captain N, Mario Super Show, and Zelda. As I understand the timeline it was the embarrassing CDi titles that ultimately led to Nintendo clamping down and becoming more controlling/hands on with its IP.

 

[invwar]

There was a discussion between Atari and Nintendo to release the Famicom with Atari brand. Nintendo didn't have any experience on the US market and Atari was the market leader. The deal fall flat, rumors say because Raymond Kassar eligible saw Donkey Kong running on a Colecovision and cancelled the deal. This and the crash made Nintendo build up NoA and release the NES.
I wouldn't be surprised, if these releases were some leftovers from this deal.

 

[Celine]

Before Nintendo took on its shoulders to distribute the Famicom/NES in North America and before Atari Corp was formed (Jack Tramiel's Atari focused on computers and consoles but more on the former), Nintendo struck deals for licensing game properties to other console/computer makers and were in talks with Atari to let the american company to distribute the Famicom in North America (task which was deemed at the time too risky for Nintendo to go alone).
So Atari (new entity Atari Corp.) had the rights to do conversions of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. due to the Warner's Atari strucking the deals years prior.
As part of the initial talks about Atari distribution of the Famicom in NA Nintendo would have provided the hardware and the software thus it was requested that Nintendo would convert some Atari hits foe the Famicom format.
Nintendo tasked a little dev team that would become world famous to do these conversions in 1983 (HAL Laboratory).
Then the deal between Atari and Nintendo would flounder but HAL would eventually publish the Atari ports in 1987 in Japan which all have the copyrights citing 1983, not 1987 because the work was done years earlier.
These conversions were Millipede, Defender II and Joust (plus a fourth title that isn't known) and Satoru Iwata had a hand in the porting process.
I don't think it's a coincidense that Iwata's most iconic game he directly created was clearly inspired by Joust (Balloon Fight).

A former mentor recalls the early career of Satoru Iwata

'Iwata was a so-called otaku,' recalls Yash Terakura, who mentored Satoru Iwata when he was a college kid eager to learn more about computers. 'Of course, we did not have that term at that time.'

web.archive.org

 

[Dinoman96]

Nintendo being looser with who they'd let license content in the 80's and 90's. Others have mentioned the many edutainment, pc titles, and cdi games, but this was also when Nintendo was pushing hard with multiple kids cartoon shows like Captain N, Mario Super Show, and Zelda. As I understand the timeline it was the embarrassing CDi titles that ultimately led to Nintendo clamping down and becoming more controlling/hands on with its IP.

I'd say say this had a helping hand as well:

 

[shoptroll]

And Sega allowed some of their titles to be released on the NES all the way up to 1989, even though the Master System and the NES were direct competitors and the Genesis was already out.

And funnily enough, in the context of this thread, those were published, if I recall correctly, via Tengen which was setup by Atari

 

[CyberWolfBia]

As usual, I recommend The Gaming Historian video on the subject



Basically, it was Atari using the license they acquired from Nintendo before they even brought the Famicom/NES to the western market

Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., Popeye, Sky Skipper e Mario Bros. all had Atari ports.

 

[JazzyFuture]

And funnily enough, in the context of this thread, those were published, if I recall correctly, via Tengen which was setup by Atari

In japan there were different versions developed and I think published by Sunsoft.

 

[EAD Ninja]

I don't think it's a coincidense that Iwata's most iconic game he directly created was clearly inspired by Joust (Balloon Fight).

Iwata didn't directly create Balloon Fight though -- but I would say Balloon Trip is more accurate to say was "his" creation.

• After developing Urban Champion, Yokoi asked R&D1 to create "a game focused on giving players a sense of floating through space that also has fighting elements".
• Sakamoto was placed in design lead and came up with the specs and drew all the characters.
• SRD began programming the arcade Vs. version first
• Sakamoto and HAL Iwata then also worked on the Famicom port.
• Iwata helped Nagako (SRD) improve the physics which Nakago (SRD) then reused on SMB Bros. swimming segments.
• Yokoi pitched Iwata an idea to the NES team to add more content and pitched his "vision" of what the additional game should be, which Iwata then translated into his idea and programmed in 3 days.

 

[junglehead]

Iwata didn't directly create Balloon Fight though -- but I would say Balloon Trip is more accurate to say was "his" creation.

• After developing Urban Champion, Yokoi asked R&D1 to create "a game focused on giving players a sense of floating through space that also has fighting elements".
• Sakamoto was placed in design lead and came up with the specs and drew all the characters.
• SRD began programming the arcade Vs. version first
• Sakamoto and HAL Iwata then also worked on the Famicom port.
• Iwata helped Nagako (SRD) improve the physics which Nakago (SRD) then reused on SMB Bros. swimming segments.
• Yokoi pitched Iwata an idea to the NES team to add more content and pitched his "vision" of what the additional game should be, which Iwata then translated into his idea and programmed in 3 days.

I tend to forget Sakamoto is that old. Wow. Talk about influential.

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

the planned deal for Atari to distribute the Famicom has already been mentioned, but it's worth noting we actually have one of the internal Atari letters discussing the situation.

That negotiating session began with a statement from Mr. Yamauchi
as to the terms and conditions which he demanded, namely:

1. that Atari would purchase the assembled and tested
main pc board for the FCS from Nintendo, for sale
outside of Japan. Nintendo would sell the FCS on its
own in Japan.

2. after some minimum purchase of assembled and tested pc
boards, we would be able to buy the 2 custom chips
from Nintendo without having to have Nintendo assemble
them into the final unit.

3. that Nintendo would only disclose the electrical specs
for the PPU and CPU, the circuit diagram of the FCS
system, the test programs, and the "cassette" specs
(meaning the ROM cartridge and cartridge edge
connector specs).

4. that there would be no disclosure to Atari of the
programming specs for the PPU and the CPU.

5. that Nintendo would program titles of our choice for
the FCS system and would sell us the assembled and
tested, unlabeled ROM carts at 1,500 Yen each FOB
Japan for retail sale by Atari. The minimum quantity
required by Nintendo per title would be 100,000 units
and at that level there would be no fee for
non-recurring engineering/programming expenses.

6. that Atari would hereby obtain a "right of 1st
refusal" on future Nintendo coin-op titles for use
worldwide (outside of Japan) only for the Nintendo FCS
system .... again, by programming and manufacturing
those carts themselves for sale to us.

7. that the cost of the assembled and tested main pc
board would be higher than the 5,300 Yen quoted
earlier to cover the cost of FCC compatibility. Also,
that the resulting new pc board would not fit into the
plastic being used by Nintendo for this unit in Japan.

By the time we finished the negotiations on that trip (5/17 -
5/20), the deal was changed to be as follows:

A. Nintendo would disclose all items called for in my
memo of 5/13/83 (to Henricks and Paul) except for item
13., namely, the LSI tapes for chip fabrication. This
disclosure would take place upon signing of the deal.
All items which are originally in Japanese are to be
furnished to us both in Japanese and in English.

B. Upon signing the deal, Nintendo would reassure Atari
about the source of supply of the 2 custom chips.

C. Any increases in the cost of the main pc board due to
FCC compliance will be a straight cost pass through
(no additional profit to Nintendo).

D. Atari and Nintendo would work together to attempt to
legal protect the CPU and PPU designs.

E. Nintendo would receive $5. Mil upon signing as an
advance against future payments.

F. Atari would have to commit to a minimum purchase of 2
million hardware units (some mixture of assembled and
tested pc boards and CPU/PPU chip sets) over the term
of the contract.

G. The term of the contract would be 4 years with a 4
year option to renew.

H. Nintendo would receive an additional $3.5 Mil in a
line of credit as an advance upon future payments upon
delivery of the 1st production-ready prototype of the
PAL West Germany version of the FCS (no later than
1/1/84). Similarly, an additional advance of $1.5 Mil
for SECAM.

I. The 2 million unit commitment would be broken-up into
1 million NTSC, 700,000 PAL, and 300,000 SECAM. If
Atari goes over in one catagory, it would directly
reduce our requirement in any other catagory of our
choice. As Skip Paul likes to put it, "cross-
collateralization is the key!"

J. Nintendo would commit to produce 100,000 units of the
assembled and tested pc board by August 31st if the
new pc design (to include FCC and to fit whatever
plastic we choose) can be completed by Nintendo
and approved by Atari by July 20th. In essence,
unlimited quanities (in excess of 1 million/month)
thereafter .... upon 3 months notice from Atari.

K. Atari will have the right to program for this system
with the full assistance of Nintendo.

L. Nintendo will, in the interests of expediency for this
Christmas season, program 4 Atari titles of our
choice. Source and object code which meets our
satisfaction (with respect to basic design, tuning,
and bug-free) to be delivered to us no later than
Sept. 1, 1983. The fee would be $100,000./title or
no non-recurring engineering fees would be charged as
long as we buy a minimum of 100,000 carts.

M. Carts would cost us 1,500 Yen/cart if in plastic but
unlabeled or 1,350 Yen if not in plastic (F.O.B.
Japan). Rate of production would be max. 5,000
units/week/title

the apocryphal story for why it was dropped was because Coleco showed a port of Donkey Kong running on the Coleco Adam at the Summer CES event in 1983, despite Atari having sole rights to porting Nintendo's arcade games on home computers at the time.
however the letter is dated June 14th, almost a week after that convention.

a prototype of Joust made during this period is in the hands of the Video Game History Foundation, though it's never been publicly shared for legal reasons.

another interesting fact worth bringing up is that Defender II has music composed by Yukio Kaneoka, which is relevant because the various original jingles used for it would later go on to appear in the Punch-Out arcade game. (an in turn the later NES installment)

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

It was a residue of licensing deals made from back when Donkey Kong hit it big in American arcades and various companies vied for licenses for home console ports for it and potential follow ups. At the time these licensing deals were made, Nintendo wasn’t fielding a console in the American market (and the original intention had been that they would not, and instead would license the console to a company like Atari who would release it under their brand in markets outside of Japan).

This is why you’ll find ports of some early Nintendo arcade hits on technically Nintendo competitor consoles such as Atari 7800 (and Colecovision, though that one had long gone bust by the time the NES hit it big).