Retro Emulation Accuracy VS "Enhancements"

[AR15mex]

Recently I've been playing Banjo Kazooie on the NSO, and I can't help but wondering how wonderful an increased draw distance will help to track those notes and Jinjos.

A couple of YouTube videos later (here is the video) and I see that it makes a big difference to collect those items, especially in a game like Banjo.

Which bring to my next question, will players complain if the NSO games have "enhancements" like these (Is this the correct term)? Maybe the purists or speed runners will complain about it, but during these modern times I think these are welcomed changes.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Leica]

Focus on accuracy first and if enhancements are possible make them something you can toggle on and off much like with emulators on PC, that's how I'd go about it.

 

[Dcubed]

Accuracy is the foremost goal with any emulation project. But in the case of emulation with 3D consoles like the N64? Improved resolution and smoother frame rates are always very welcome.

Anything that involves going in and messing with the original game’s code (which you would have to do if you want to increase draw distance) is well out of line though. It would no longer be the original game anymore. The whole point of emulation is to preserve the original experience as it was (with enhancements outside of the game itself being made possible of course).

 

[TheMindOfThomas]

Most of the time I prefer enhancements when possible. Super Mario 3D All-Stars is a good official example of improving while still staying true to the original games via emulation (especially in the case of something like Sunshine).

 

[menx64]

I wish they add more enhancements tbh. Playing the same game I played 20 years ago is ok, but let's fix what be be fix. Maybe offer an enhanced and and original version.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Enhance the hell out of everything.

Upgrade the visuals. Update the controls. Modernise everything.

Accuracy is the foremost goal with any emulation project. But in the case of emulation with 3D consoles like the N64? Improved resolution and smoother frame rates are always very welcome.

Anything that involves going in and messing with the original game’s code (which you would have to do if you want to increase draw distance) is well out of line though. It would no longer be the original game anymore. The whole point of emulation is to preserve the original experience as it was (with enhancements outside of the game itself being made possible of course).

You get that to smooth out frame rates you're probably going in and tweaking the games code too right? Especially when tons of old games had frame rate dependent logic that would need adjusting if the frame rate changes.

That's a really arbitrary line you're drawing there.

 

[Brofield]

I prefer emulation that can guarantee better performance and solid framerates, and I think a toggle for QoL improvements that I can turn on at my leisure while others who prefer accuracy for the sake of it can leave it off would benefit everyone.

Most of the time I prefer enhancements when possible. Super Mario 3D All-Stars is a good official example of improving while still staying true to the original games via emulation (especially in the case of something like Sunshine).

This especially. Super Mario 64 at 4:3 aspect ratio and 30 fps? Wack. (720p is nice tho for at least updating some textures and the HUD)

Super Mario Sunshine at 16:9 and 1080p? Rad! (Still 30 fps capped when modders and other emulators have long since been able to implement 60fps? Still wack.)

 

[Dcubed]

Enhance the hell out of everything.

Upgrade the visuals. Update the controls. Modernise everything.



You get that to smooth out frame rates you're probably going in and tweaking the games code too right? Especially when tons of old games had frame rate dependent logic that would need adjusting if the frame rate changes.

That's a really arbitrary line you're drawing there.

There’s no tweaking of game code necessary for N64 games. They just run at the FPS cap they were originally designed for, instead of constantly missing their target.

 

[Zaimokuza]

from 2d games I just want accuracy, but 3d ones need all the enhancements then emulator can give them: 60fps, 1080p/4k, reshaders, improved draw distance, post processing effects and whatever else can be achieved

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

In a general sense? Both.

It's important for accurate emulation to exist, so the experience of playing the original games is preserved for the foreseeable future. But enhancements are always a good way to bring new life to old games and bring them to new standards of playability over time.

 

[Fercho]

I don't mind for purist emulation, i want all the improvements, i'm fascinated by the recent emulators. Also give me those achievements yum yum yum give me give me give me.

 

[GamerJM]

I prefer accuracy as much as possible, because I like the idea that what I'm playing is somewhat close to what consumers in the 90s or 80s or 2000s would have been playing.

I also think Nintendo's general ideology is that emulation should be as accurate as possible, and that editions and enhancements should be reserved for re-releases. Otherwise they'd have a harder time selling stuff like Kirby Super Star Ultra at the same time Kirby Super Star was available on the Wii VC.

 

[Clix]

Enhance the hell out of everything.

Upgrade the visuals. Update the controls. Modernise everything.

Soooo…. A remaster or remake the? Lol

Madness!

I’m a bit of a purist. While I like a good remaster (OoT and MM 3DS) or remake (Links Awakening), I don’t think they are necessary. As I always say, a good game is a good games. Games that people say “don’t age well” we’re never good games or mediocre at best, especially since as kids we sometimes have some odd tastes here and there.

The biggest barrier to entry for old games, especially 3D ones, are not the visuals, it’s control schemes. With each new gen the biggest upgrades have been controllers and the control over inputs above anything else. But when I go back to an old 3D game, it’s like riding a bike. Give yourself a bit of time and you get used to it and muscle memory starts to come back.

I love the look of so many early 3D games. Some devs shots too far with what they could do, of course, and we got things that even back then I thought did not look great (FF8), but when devs worked within the limitations of the time, it looks quite lovely. Some of my fave N64 games kept it simple with bright lower polygons and simple textures, so you get a nice clean look (Star Fox, OoT, Sin & Punishment, Crash, Spyro, Ape Escape, FF7) or went with something more stylized like FF9. Even Metal Gear still looks nice because while it took the PS1 to the limits, it had a clean look to the character models.

 

[Deleted member 887]

There’s no tweaking of game code necessary for N64 games. They just run at the FPS cap they were originally designed for, instead of constantly missing their target.

You can't uncap the framerate of all N64 games - games like Donkey Kong 64 design logic to framerate updates, and depend on the game slowing down.

 

[MP!]

I don’t know but every rpg should have a 4x speed option
Especially Pokémon

 

[Dcubed]

You can't uncap the framerate of all N64 games - games like Donkey Kong 64 design logic to framerate updates, and depend on the game slowing down.

Err… that’s exactly what I just said?

You don’t have to remove FPS caps to have N64 games perform better; they just run at the FPS cap that they were originally designed for. Like how DK64 runs much better on the Wii U VC release than the original N64 cart, but they haven’t messed around with the original game’s code and FPS cap at all.

 

[hanktree]

It depends on the console tbh. I'm more of a purist for the8-bit/16-bit stuff but for PS1 onwards give me better resolutions and fast forward optioms over purity. Fast forward is particualr is a very important. PS1 games are sooooooooo slow.

 

[VDenter]

If you want enhancements then you should port the game(s) instead. It is much easier to implement meaningful updates that way, but if you try to do it with Emulation it always feels a bit hacky and could come at the expense of accuracy. For Emulation accuracy should always be the goal, I don't need something to be "cycle accurate" but it has to be good enough for there not to be any weird quirks that weren't on the original hardware and all graphical effects should be faithfully reproduced. I don't mind the Xbox Live version of BK because it isn't an emulated version but a port.

 

[Deleted member 887]

Err… that’s exactly what I just said?

You don’t have to remove FPS caps to have N64 games perform better; they just run at the FPS cap that they were originally designed for. Like how DK64 runs much better on the Wii U VC release than the original N64 cart, but they haven’t messed around with the original game’s code and FPS cap at all.

Sorry, we might be talking past each other! My fault, I'm sure! I'm saying this not to disagree with you (I think I misunderstood what you were saying) just to clarify my original point.

The Wii U VC of DK64 has different game logic in a couple places because they make it lag less. DK64 updates the game logic per frame - if the game lags or drops frames, the logic updates slower. The boss battles and the Rabbit Race are tuned around the dropped/lagging frames - the Wii U version of the Rabbit Race is harder because of it. Running the virtual processor hotter to eliminate lag does change the game logic.

Patching running ROMs in an emulator - either monkey patching via scripting, or just overriding code paths via HLE - is a common strategy in emulators to implement "new" features, or to get ROMs to behave on top of emulated hardware that performs different from the physical.

 

[AR15mex]

Most of the time I prefer enhancements when possible. Super Mario 3D All-Stars is a good official example of improving while still staying true to the original games via emulation (especially in the case of something like Sunshine).

This, I like the idea of increase the draw distance, but without breaking the essence of the game. As mentioned on the OP, I think Banjo will benefit a lot from increased draw distance, but something like the fog in the Legend of Zelda that increases the draw distance and at the same time breaks the atmosphere is not good.

Thinking about it, this may be a case by case scenario.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm all for enhanced emulation, but there are limits to what that means before you're changing so much that it's really a port. Increased resolution we already see. Changing draw distance would be something quite different. Something would have to tell the game to change that behavior, load things into memory differently, use more memory than was possible in the original, all kinds of stuff. In some cases an emulator can force an emulated processor to run at higher than normal speeds which can allow further improvements to frame rate, though.