The Future of Final Fantasy, discussion thread

[MrBones]

Even if they are the same genre there is a big difference if the combat is spam x and dodge soemtimes or press x while holding why while piling the joystick back and springing forth afterwards hold y while rapidly twisting the joystick to launch a stun projectile.


There is a ginaoirmous difference in feel between games like dmc and ff7 r.

It’s kind of a mix between action game and fighting game.

Those good combat mechanics aren’t good, they’re different. Some people don’t want to learn complicated combo strings, they just wanna spam a button.

No button inputs in DMC or Bayonetta are remotely that complicated.

The combo strings that do exist are there mostly variations of "X,X,X", "X,X,pause,X,X", "X,pause,X,pause,X", etc. Some involve holding forward or back on the joystick, but it's all very intuitive (forward+attack is a lunge move, etc.). The depth comes from the breadth simple moves (from different weapons you can switch to), and chaining them together to form an ad-libbed combo. But none of it is as complicated as you make it out to be. And it's definitely not too complicated for anyone to balk at unless they hold preconceived misconceptions.

 

[Mekanos]

I will keep an eye on the gameplay demo even if I can’t personally try it. Seems like there’s lots of uncertainty there and well, obviously if the game is fun to play that will be good lol

 

[BotenAnna]

I think a lot of people get scared off by that complex stuff (and getting graded) when discussing action games when in reality, it's only as complex as you make it.

I'm going to guess this has a lot to do with the forum base here skewing a bit older and more conservative in how they view games. Growing up back in the early 00s DMC, Ninja Gaiden, etc. were regularly cited by games media as being these super difficult hardcore challenges that only dedicated people would master. I think some of the marketing also played into that a bit if I remember correctly too? Combine that with the grading and a slightly less friendly learning curve than more mainstream genres you end up with that stigma sticking around for a long time. I get the vibe that the old perception is still strong around here, and a good chunk of people feel better looking at genres they are more comfortable in. It doesn't help that a lot of exposure to DMC specifically is "look at this Donguri shit going on" when the reality is actually S ranking the game barely requires combo knowledge at all but ya know.

FWIW I bought into that narrative as a kid, I just questioned it around the time DMC4/Bayo1 released and started going for high grade/difficulty runs myself. Knowing what I do now I look at FFXVI and can clearly identify that they are aiming for a simple/accessible ARPG with sound fundamentals and just enough depth for fans of the genre to have fun exploring, but they've probably done a pretty poor job explaining that to the people who need it. Instead they are harping on all the cool DMC-esque stuff (which is admittedly pretty cool), further alienating players who are still stuck in the stigmatized view of that genre. I'd argue this forum is like the perfect microcosm of people who really needed to be sold in a different way, and SE just didn't get that until it was too late.

 

[thoughthaver]

If the game doesn't have a wise mystical tree, I'm not buying

this tree looks too much like one of those Ethnics get it out of here

 

[Soul Skater]

Really I think it’s as simple as at a certain point even with the most gullible people Lucy can only pull the football so many times before people catch on

Series has been too much of a mess for too long and they have done little to show why this time it might be different

Like it totally be great! Maybe even the best FF in 20 years.

But it has to prove it first. Like it’s gotta review super well AND get really great player word of mouth or yeah this could fall well short of their sales expectations. I think many are willing to actually buy it if it’s good but the days of waiting in line, preordering day 1 “hell yeah I’m buying this because it’s a new final fantasy” is long long over.

 

[Imitatio]

Part of the problem is Advent Children.

That film came out and got people  really excited about FF characters having big over the top swordfights with each other. XIII was originally marketed as having a combat system that would let you have big epic AC style swordfights, just with menu inputs. Crisis Core and FF7R both are riffing on bringing AC style fights to an action RPG framework.

To be fair, when I was a teenager, I thought the fights in AC were literally the coolest thing ever.

I really need to look this up again, but I think it was from when they had released FF XIII that, in an interview, one of the higher-ups at S-E (director, producer, I don't really remember clearly) admitted as much, that AC has had a huge influence on what S-E wants to achieve with Final Fantasy and the combat system in particular (but the visuals as well). The movie has left a clear mark on the company's design culture/goals for the franchise and I'd agree that it certainly feels/seems like FF XVI is in line with that approach/idea. Even FF XV already tried to fulfill this promise of fluid combat and spectacle in its own way.

And yeah, I kinda get it, AC was rad as hell when I was younger. Nowadays this (what seems like) style over substance approach doesn't really impress me anymore.
Which might point to one of the fundamental issues with FF XVI's marketing as well: who exactly is their target audience here? I think people saying the Witcher 3/Skyrim/dark-ish Western fantasy crowd aren't (completely) off, but it's questionable to me whether that crowd cares about XVI so far, based on how it's been shown off/marketed alone. As people pointed out already, neither Witcher nor Skyrim sold themselves based on their combat systems, and their marketing reflected that. FF XVI seems to be missing the mark in that regard. And as it's become clear from the posts in here, old school FF fans (partially) don't feel the new direction either. So who exactly is it they're catering to?

 

[PixelKnight]

I really need to look this up again, but I think it was from when they had released FF XIII that, in an interview, one of the higher-ups at S-E (director, producer, I don't really remember clearly) admitted as much, that AC has had a huge influence on what S-E wants to achieve with Final Fantasy and the combat system in particular (but the visuals as well). The movie has left a clear mark on the company's design culture/goals for the franchise and I'd agree that it certainly feels/seems like FF XVI is in line with that approach/idea. Even FF XV already tried to fulfill this promise of fluid combat and spectacle in its own way.

And yeah, I kinda get it, AC was rad as hell when I was younger. Nowadays this (what seems like) style over substance approach doesn't really impress me anymore.
Which might point to one of the fundamental issues with FF XVI's marketing as well: who exactly is their target audience here? I think people saying the Witcher 3/Skyrim/dark-ish Western fantasy crowd aren't (completely) off, but it's questionable to me whether that crowd cares about XVI so far, based on how it's been shown off/marketed alone. As people pointed out already, neither Witcher nor Skyrim sold themselves based on their combat systems, and their marketing reflected that. FF XVI seem to be missing the mark in that regard. And as it's become clear from the posts in here, old school FF fans (partially) don't feel the new direction either. So who exactly is it they're catering to?

They say they want to appeal to as many people as possible. I suspect that means younger console gamers in Japan first and then the (skewing slightly older) 20/30-something fans overseas. I mean, I don’t think it’s particularly that different from various other FF games over the last 20 years in the darkness of the setting combined with the high fantasy elements and flashy combat, but I do think they are trying to appeal to a lot of people rather than one specific demographic. They are already aware that you can’t please all FF fans, which is something completely understandable, and because of that I think it’s about appealing to fans beyond the fractured Final Fantasy crowd. I’m just not sure it’s selling an rpg in a particularly cohesive way in focusing almost completely on the combat system and it being an action game, when there’s clearly narrative elements to it. I guess they didn’t want to focus on exploration when it’s ‘pick a location and go there’, but even so, I’ve seen little of the characters and why I should be interested in their plight. Just a combat system that does nothing for me.

Abandoning talking about narrative and characters entirely when trying to sell a dark fantasy action RPG seems a bit of a strange marketing strategy to me when a good story or setting is what rpg fans are more unified on far more than the huge variety of combat systems. As mentioned in the thread, if you’re going to lean into Skyrim and The Witcher, the combat systems in those games arent great but they’ve sold tens of millions of copies regardless through the worlds being engaging places to wander through.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

They have focused a lot on the story and there's hours and hours and hours of cutscenes in the game. The main point brought up in the 6 hour preview was how many cutscenes there are.

 

[wolftendo]

Once I found out you select areas from the map menu my hype has been severely diminished tbh

Well, they never said it was going to be open world, did they?

 

[Scrawnton]

Well, they never said it was going to be open world, did they?

There's a huge middle ground between "open world" and "selecting areas and fast traveling from a map." See every action adventure game ever since OoT created the template.

 

[Jencks]

Well, they never said it was going to be open world, did they?

I was expecting XII-esque zones. Instead, once you exit a zone, the map screen loads and you choose the next area.

 

[Lugia667]

If Xenoblade 3 can have an interconnected world there is no excuse

 

[Thunder84]

If Xenoblade 3 can have an interconnected world there is no excuse

Calling it interconnected is a big stretch, considering that it's just a bunch of zones connected by loading screens. It's more or less the same thing, just without additional exits taped on to the borders of the map. Convenient to have, sure, but certainly not anything I'd consider inherently necessary.

As long as it's easy to navigate between zones, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with the world structure here. And I love Aionios.

 

[fourfourfun]

I don't know why, but I feel a huge amount of faith has been loaded onto this game through what FFXIV was. A bunch of that team are working on this aren't they? The entire thing of "once you play through a full Final Fantasy's worth of content then you can start playing the best single player FF game in the world, it isn't an MMO really" never sat well with me.

 

[Ozeiyo]

Release it on the Xbox. It might not help preorders but it would help (me) try it out

 

[Scrawnton]

Release it on the Xbox. It might not help preorders but it would help (me) try it out

Sadly with how FF7R has shaken out, I think Sonys deal with Square prevents this from ever coming to Xbox, and Square will be shady and never acknowledge it.

 

[Ramune]

I don't know why, but I feel a huge amount of faith has been loaded onto this game through what FFXIV was. A bunch of that team are working on this aren't they? The entire thing of "once you play through a full Final Fantasy's worth of content then you can start playing the best single player FF game in the world, it isn't an MMO really" never sat well with me.

I don't doubt that team since I know XIV resonates with a lot of people and I think it's one of the best-performing FFs critically (and commercially right?), but yes, it didn't click with me and I bailed before finishing ARR. I could see it getting to a point where I'd just get alternately frustrated and bored with it. I'll be intrigued to see how well XIV devotees take to XVI!

 

[fourfourfun]

I don't doubt that team since I know XIV resonates with a lot of people and I think it's one of the best-performing FFs critically (and commercially right?), but yes, it didn't click with me and I bailed before finishing ARR. I could see it getting to a point where I'd just get alternately frustrated and bored with it. I'll be intrigued to see how well XIV devotees take to XVI!

When I see XVI, I see a lot of XV but in armour.

 

[wolftendo]

I made this comment in IB but I think it fits here too:
"The only thing that would make FFXVI discourse worse (or better depending who you ask) is if someone made a thread titled: 'FFXVI needs to sell X million copies WW and X00k copies in Japan to overcome the 'niche' barrier'"

 

[SammyJ9]

Calling it interconnected is a big stretch, considering that it's just a bunch of zones connected by loading screens. It's more or less the same thing, just without additional exits taped on to the borders of the map. Convenient to have, sure, but certainly not anything I'd consider inherently necessary.

As long as it's easy to navigate between zones, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with the world structure here. And I love Aionios.

It might seem kind of silly and arbitrary but I would argue that it makes a big difference to me, personally. Games that do big open zones connected by loading zones are honestly my favorite kind of RPGs (the Xenoblades and FF12 being the main ones I can think of) - big zones that connect together and let you really see and feel how they interlink and connect together. Kicking you to a menu screen where you then select the next place you want to go is a big turnoff for me, despite it being not that different mechanically: Those exits between zones where you can see the next place you're going in the distance, get a feel for where you're going to be heading next, and so on, really help me get into the world.

 

[Leica]

When I see XVI, I see a lot of XV but in armour.

I have no idea what footage you're looking at if you're seeing that.

 

[Imitatio]

Games that do big open zones connected by loading zones are honestly my favorite kind of RPGs (the Xenoblades and FF12 being the main ones I can think of) - big zones that connect together and let you really see and feel how they interlink and connect together.

Big, fat yeah! :D

 

[fourfourfun]

I have no idea what footage you're looking at if you're seeing that.

It is the fast paced flurry of combat. I actually thought after a bit I was seeing multiple bits of FF games in there. XII's levelled bad guys and visual indicators of their hardness, XIII's penchant for flinging hit points around, and XV's fast combat.

 

[ILikeFeet]

well...uh....where that confidence at?

 

[Scrawnton]

well...uh....where that confidence at?

You'd think they'd drop the demo by now...

 

[SirArthur]

I was looking at the press release and the "update" of Remake sales still say "more than 5 million". So it backs up the info about the game sales being frontloaded but then having no tail. I did not expect sales to fall like that.

https://press.uk.square-enix.com/en...ST-WORLD-IN-FINAL-FANTASY-VII-REBIRTH-COMING-

 

[Vernal]

I was looking at the press release and the "update" of Remake sales still say "more than 5 million". So it backs up the info about the game sales being frontloaded but then having no tail. I did not expect sales to fall like that.

https://press.uk.square-enix.com/en...ST-WORLD-IN-FINAL-FANTASY-VII-REBIRTH-COMING-

So weird. Are these numbers actually updated? Wha?

Maybe being added to PS Plus played a part in it but I could have never imagined sales could have been so severely frontloaded. Though it's best to note that SE hasn't really deep-discounted the game like they have with XV for example.

Which means Square it's time for a chunky permanent price drop! Let me buy your game at a decent price please.

 

[SirArthur]

So weird. Are these numbers actually updated? Wha?

Maybe being added to PS Plus played a part in it but I could have never imagined sales could have been so severely frontloaded. Though it's best to note that SE hasn't really deep-discounted the game like they have with XV for example

I just realized this lol. Super weird the game did not get deep discounts.

 

[Scrawnton]

I was looking at the press release and the "update" of Remake sales still say "more than 5 million". So it backs up the info about the game sales being frontloaded but then having no tail. I did not expect sales to fall like that.

https://press.uk.square-enix.com/en...ST-WORLD-IN-FINAL-FANTASY-VII-REBIRTH-COMING-

Square should put sales number stipulations in their contracts with Sony.

Square is probably really kicking themselves for getting in bed with Sony for FF7R trilogy and FFXVI. I think it's obvious these deals will hurt the series popularity and reach.

 

[Phendrift]

Square should put sales number stipulations in their contracts with Sony.

Square is probably really kicking themselves for getting in bed with Sony for FF7R trilogy and FFXVI. I think it's obvious these deals will hurt the series popularity and reach.

I really don’t see Xbox doing much for the series’ popularity. Having Sony backing FF as an exclusive probably outweighs any Xbox benefit.

The only thing they’re really missing out on is switch, especially with Japan, and hardware would be an issue with that so they weren’t gonna be put on switch anyway.

 

[SirArthur]

Square should put sales number stipulations in their contracts with Sony.

Square is probably really kicking themselves for getting in bed with Sony for FF7R trilogy and FFXVI. I think it's obvious these deals will hurt the series popularity and reach.

There is a possibility that SE or Sony have overvalued the pull the franchise has in todays market.

Whether an xbox version would have help, sure, to what extent? Idk. But not having a PC port day one when 90% of rpg/jrps release there, is a choice. I wonder what the math on "delay but day one" vs "staggered releases" is. I know the epic port was not great though.

 

[Scrawnton]

I really don’t see Xbox doing much for the series’ popularity. Having Sony backing FF as an exclusive probably outweighs any Xbox benefit.

The only thing they’re really missing out on is switch, especially with Japan, and hardware would be an issue with that so they weren’t gonna be put on switch anyway.

It's hard to gauge how Xbox could further grow the Final Fantasy franchise because Square Enix has always kneecapped the franchises potential on Xbox. Yeah, they put FF15 on Xbox, but at the time that was released PS4 already had FF7 rerelease, FFX HD, and FF14 all as exclusives (and no multi platform plans were announced at the time) as well as FF12 TZA being announced as a PS4 exclusive at the time. Square and Sony made it clear PS4 was the home of Final Fantasy despite Xbox getting 15.

For a time it seemed the walls were finally coming down with every game being ported to Switch and Xbox but then Square went and signed exclusivity deals with Sony for the cream of the crop Final Fantasy games.

Square never gave the franchise a chance to grow on Xbox because they always treated the platform as second tier and kept Sony systems as the only place to truly experience the franchise.

TLDR, Square has and still is doing a horrible job at growing Final Fantasy. They're actively hurting it to be honest.

 

[souio]

"Final Fantasy XVI the first game to somehow sell a billion copies!"
Squeenix: Yeah, but we were expecting a minimum of 2.5 billion...

 

[shoptroll]

But not having a PC port day one when 90% of rpg/jrps release there, is a choice. I wonder what the math on "delay but day one" vs "staggered releases" is. I know the epic port was not great though.

It's not like Square-Enix doesn't know this.



Most likely explanation is they thought an exclusivity deal would be enough, and they could focus on patching and porting the game over the next 6 months. No idea how much XBox will get them, but that's probably going to be a Gamepass thing anyways.

To be honest, they just need to keep the game afloat until Switch 2 and then all bets are off.

 

[Miraj]

Didn't Yoshi-P say in an interview that they went with Playstation exclusivity because Sony's engineers were really involved in helping them out, and making one platform the focus helped speed up development time and lower costs? Making a game for multiple consoles (and PC of course with its various settings) is a big task, and we're all pretty familiar with how bad launch period PC versions are for AAA games. I imagine after the fiascos of XIV 1.0 and XV's developments, they wanted to make sure XVI's development ran smoothly, and would deal with ports later. Of course, S-E management is also known for outlandish sales expectations.If anything, it's interesting that the supposed PS4 version was canned, but maybe FF7R indicated that the audience there was moving on to PS5.

I really don't know if there's much of a FF audience on Xbox. Haven't the games done rather middling on there? Maybe it wasn't worth the extra development time/budget to their number crunchers. And of course, Switch can't even run it. They'll probably do a version for Switch 2 and some fans will double dip, in addition to those who wouldn't want to own a PS5.

Looking at the series sales, I think it's far more likely that the Final Fantasy IP just doesn't have the pull it used to have. Plus the audience for it is a lot older, while younger gamers likely don't know much about it. The reasons why would be fascinating to see, but I doubt it's solely because of Sony temporary exclusivity. That just feels like a boogeyman excuse for far broader reasons for S-E to be concerned, and honestly often comes across as port begging a lot of the time.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

Didn't Yoshi-P say in an interview that they went with Playstation exclusivity because Sony's engineers were really involved in helping them out, and making one platform the focus helped speed up development time and lower costs? Making a game for multiple consoles (and PC of course with its various settings) is a big task, and we're all pretty familiar with how bad launch period PC versions are for AAA games. I imagine after the fiascos of XIV 1.0 and XV's developments, they wanted to make sure XVI's development ran smoothly, and would deal with ports later. Of course, S-E management is also known for outlandish sales expectations.If anything, it's interesting that the supposed PS4 version was canned, but maybe FF7R indicated that the audience there was moving on to PS5.

I really don't know if there's much of a FF audience on Xbox. Haven't the games done rather middling on there? Maybe it wasn't worth the extra development time/budget to their number crunchers. And of course, Switch can't even run it. They'll probably do a version for Switch 2 and some fans will double dip, in addition to those who wouldn't want to own a PS5.

Looking at the series sales, I think it's far more likely that the Final Fantasy IP just doesn't have the pull it used to have. Plus the audience for it is a lot older, while younger gamers likely don't know much about it. The reasons why would be fascinating to see, but I doubt it's solely because of Sony temporary exclusivity. That just feels like a boogeyman excuse for far broader reasons for S-E to be concerned, and honestly often comes across as port begging a lot of the time.

In fairness, the Legend of Zelda was very much an "older fans know but no one else" kind of series in, say, 2016

There's nothing that suggests Final Fantasy can't be made more relevant to modern audiences. The problem is just that Square just doesn't seem to know how

 

[Dcubed]

So… S-E just threw FF16 under the bus with the FF7 Rebirth unveil two weeks prior to its release…

It’s Resident Evil Revelations all over again!

 

[SammyJ9]

So… S-E just threw FF16 under the bus with the FF7 Rebirth unveil two weeks prior to its release…

It’s Resident Evil Revelations all over again!

I get that this is when all the showcases and big hype is happening, but it does feel a bit weird that they went ahead and did that reveal (and that big of a trailer!) this close before FF16. I would have waited until more like two weeks after or more. Unless they're just thinking that any and all Final Fantasy hype right now is a good thing, even if the two games are totally unrelated?

 

[John Omaha]

There's nothing that suggests Final Fantasy can't be made more relevant to modern audiences. The problem is just that Square just doesn't seem to know how

I think Square-Enix could benefit quite a bit from pulling back their budgets for Final Fantasy so they can experiment with more unusual settings and gameplay systems with less of a risk to their bottom line. This would in turn increase their chances of stumbling upon something that resonates better with the wider market. I'm not even sure today's S-E could greenlight a game as weird (for its time) as the original FF7, let alone something more out there like 10.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

I think Square-Enix could benefit quite a bit from pulling back their budgets for Final Fantasy so they can experiment with more unusual settings and gameplay systems with less of a risk to their bottom line. This would in turn increase their chances of stumbling upon something that resonates better with the wider market. I'm not even sure today's S-E could make a game as weird as the original FF7, let alone something more out there like 10.

Square's grand high mucky-mucks have to let Final Fantasy not be the most-expensive-looking game to come out of Japan

As a design ethos their focus on being expensive-looking has been deleterious to their development environment for almost twenty years now

 

[Terrell]

In fairness, the Legend of Zelda was very much an "older fans know but no one else" kind of series in, say, 2016

There's nothing that suggests Final Fantasy can't be made more relevant to modern audiences. The problem is just that Square just doesn't seem to know how

This is why I bring up audience "buy-in" and consumer trust. You can do a lot with a franchise and still succeed, but the audience (both pre-existing and prospective) have to be on board with it or at least believe you can deliver a product they want. And what we're seeing is a combination of not making that happen and, as I mentioned much earlier...

a desperate grasping bid to maintain franchise relevance and SQE taking the worst advice on how to do so.

It's a terrible recipe for keeping a franchise going at the same rate of sales or better in the long term and XVI is these issues ultimately coming to a head in dramatic fashion, partly because of the return to exclusivity after 13 years of that not being the case; it has people re-evaluating the franchise, even including those who own a PS5 and could buy it at launch.

The man was as far from perfect as it gets (what with him ending up getting high on his own farts and wasting money trying to get into movies and all), but despite his failures, Hironobu Sakaguchi was at least a strong north star for the actual game part of the franchise and I don't think it's 100% coincidental that the franchise's struggles (both inside SQE and the franchise's overall sales performance) roughly coincide with his departure. I'm not saying he was irreplaceable (hell, I'm not even really sure Sakaguchi's absence was a factor at all, but the timing suggests it very well could be), but if he was a good steward for the game series, it seems to me that SQE never figured out how to suitably replace his role.

Looking at the series sales, I think it's far more likely that the Final Fantasy IP just doesn't have the pull it used to have.

To the point @Jimmy Joe was making, that doesn't exactly happen in a vacuum. Franchise pull (almost) never evaporates for no discernible reason, there is quite often a correlation between an IP not retaining an ability to attract consumers and the decisions made up to and including the decline.

So… S-E just threw FF16 under the bus with the FF7 Rebirth unveil two weeks prior to its release…

It’s Resident Evil Revelations 4 "betrayalton" all over again!

There, fixed that for you.

 

[meatbag]

I think Square-Enix could benefit quite a bit from pulling back their budgets for Final Fantasy so they can experiment with more unusual settings and gameplay systems with less of a risk to their bottom line

They seem to be content making those kinds of games (see Harvestella, Various Daylife, Octopath), they just don't want to attach the Final Fantasy label onto them.

As a design ethos their focus on being expensive-looking has been deleterious to their development environment for almost twenty years now

And I think this is the reason why, mainline Final Fantasy has to be a grand production. And there was a time when FF sold on being THE cinematic masterpieces, but nowadays that just does not hold true.

 

[thoughthaver]

So… S-E just threw FF16 under the bus with the FF7 Rebirth unveil two weeks prior to its release…

It’s Resident Evil Revelations all over again!

yeah i thought it was a big no-no to talk about your big game right before your other big game launched. probably means the pre-orders and forecasts for 16 really arent looking pretty so press the FF7 button.

 

[PixelKnight]

They seem to be content making those kinds of games (see Harvestella, Various Daylife, Octopath), they just don't want to attach the Final Fantasy label onto them.


And I think this is the reason why, mainline Final Fantasy has to be a grand production. And there was a time when FF sold on being THE cinematic masterpieces, but nowadays that just does not hold true.

I agree. Back on PSOne, the FF cut scenes blew everyone away, they matched perfectly with the melodrama and it’s also not like a huge, multi-disc FF game was that much more expensive than any other game at the time, they felt special, like you got so much more for your money. These days, they want to sell to a wider audience but that audience now sees high-end, dramatic cut scenes as a given for full-price games in major AAA series like FF. So where FF’s identity and prestige has partially revolved around production values, it’s no longer such a USP, and so they need to both keep doing it and find something else. Another strength of FF is the way the series can change and experiment, in this one they’ve banked on a single character and an action combat system, but it’s not like that’s anything particularly unique either when so many of the huge franchises are constantly moving towards being an action rpg.

 

[Yamanoi]

Thread keeps delivering. Keep going.

 

[soundchaser]

I agree. Back on PSOne, the FF cut scenes blew everyone away, they matched perfectly with the melodrama and it’s also not like a huge, multi-disc FF game was that much more expensive than any other game at the time, they felt special, like you got so much more for your money. These days, they want to sell to a wider audience but that audience now sees high-end, dramatic cut scenes as a given for full-price games in major AAA series like FF. So where FF’s identity and prestige has partially revolved around production values, it’s no longer such a USP, and so they need to both keep doing it and find something else. Another strength of FF is the way the series can change and experiment, in this one they’ve banked on a single character and an action combat system, but it’s not like that’s anything particularly unique either when so many of the huge franchises are constantly moving towards being an action rpg.

FF7 WAS much more expensive than other games at the time, though, costing over $40 million to develop. Square spent a fortune on SGI computers alone. Had the game not done well it would have been disastrous for the company.

 

[PixelKnight]

FF7 WAS much more expensive than other games at the time, though, costing over $40 million to develop. Square spent a fortune on SGI computers alone. Had the game not done well it would have been disastrous for the company.

Ah, I meant from the consumers perspective, the cost of buying the game (pretty much all PS1 games were £30 here) rather than development. I don’t disagree with your point though!

 

[soundchaser]

Ah, I meant from the consumers perspective, the cost of buying the game (pretty much all PS1 games were £30 here) rather than development. I don’t disagree with your point though!

Re-reading your post, I see what you mean!

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think Square-Enix could benefit quite a bit from pulling back their budgets for Final Fantasy so they can experiment with more unusual settings and gameplay systems with less of a risk to their bottom line. This would in turn increase their chances of stumbling upon something that resonates better with the wider market. I'm not even sure today's S-E could greenlight a game as weird (for its time) as the original FF7, let alone something more out there like 10.

I mean, they literally could do that, but this is essentially giving up on the entire idea of Final Fantasy and giving up on it ever having the chance to be a massive selling franchise.

I'm pretty sure DQ will give up trying to be a AAA franchise after 12 because it wasn't built around trying to be a AAA franchise (and because DQ is failing to grow at all), but Final Fantasy's entire identity is being AAA.

 

[John Omaha]

I mean, they literally could do that, but this is essentially giving up on the entire idea of Final Fantasy and giving up on it ever having the chance to be a massive selling franchise.

I'm pretty sure DQ will give up trying to be a AAA franchise after 12 because it wasn't built around trying to be a AAA franchise (and because DQ is failing to grow at all), but Final Fantasy's entire identity is being AAA.

It can still be AAA, with some constraints. I'm not talking about dialing it to mid-tier or anything.