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Discussion ...

Super Metroid Remake

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
Yes.
Tried to replay on the Switch Online but couldn’t pass the second boss due to the controls.

Dread controls are great, and while Super doesn’t need to be the same as Dread, I prefer if it had more modern controls, or at least if Nintendo let us map the buttons on the online games.
 
Pavolink said:
Yes.
Tried to replay on the Switch Online but couldn’t pass the second boss due to the controls.

Dread controls are great, and while Super doesn’t need to be the same as Dread, I prefer if it had more modern controls, or at least if Nintendo let us map the buttons on the online games.
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You can remap your controller in Super Metroid though
(The emulator should still totally have that feature)
 
Game is almost perfect as is. I would take a Plus version. Meaning, the map shows you already when an item is in the room but make it appear when it is collected or not. That aspect always annoyed me because then it became backtracking for the sake of it.

Show me what I got!

So maybe offer classic map or a modern map (with flashes of where a hidden item may be plus confirmation if picked up item)

And for those that prefer it, add under control options to switch between classic controls and Zero Mission controls.

The game does actually tell you where you have to go next, so the only way to get lost is looking for items you may or may have not gotten. But the game does push you forward.
 
Clix said:
Game is almost perfect as is. I would take a Plus version. Meaning, the map shows you already when an item is in the room but make it appear when it is collected or not. That aspect always annoyed me because then it became backtracking for the sake of it.

Show me what I got!

So maybe offer classic map or a modern map (with flashes of where a hidden item may be plus confirmation if picked up item)

And for those that prefer it, add under control options to switch between classic controls and Zero Mission controls.

The game does actually tell you where you have to go next, so the only way to get lost is looking for items you may or may have not gotten. But the game does push you forward.
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These useful Improvements could be all added to a Super Metroid Remake ;)
 
I don't think it needs a remakes but i'd still play the hell out of it, Though as good as Dread looks i'd also be a bit sad to loose sprites,
 
Having played through the metroid titles pretty recently, I would have said prior to actually playing super metroid that I would have liked a remake, I don’t have any nostalgic attachment to it and there are definitely spots where it could get some QoL improvements in controls and how certain mechanics worked . but now that I have played it I am also left with “this is fine and I will probably never play this again so I don’t care” .

The actual metroid game I would love to see remade is fusion, where’s there’s so many elements I would love to see reworked like some of the boss encounters but with the options and spacing the bosses in Dread give you. I don’t think folks would scream bloody murder over it being remade either.

But ultimately what I do want is just for us to get Metroid 6 sooner than later . Having done a play through of the metroid 2d series I think it’s by far on average some of the best games I’ve ever played , even some of the worse ones and all of them hold up at this point with few gripes from me .
 
Kinda like how I feel about a Last of us remake. It feels "unnecessary" as the original "holds up" but the thought of part 1 with part 2's gameplay movement still sounds appealing.

So a Schmetroid remake with Dread's fluid controls (though it'd have to be tweaked a lot) is in a similar headspace for me.
 
My thing is, the biggest complaint I hear are the controls. Like they’re clunky. Which is weird? Cause Samus is not stiff at all. She is suero fast and nimble in it. Her Juno’s are floatier but faster.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
At least a few of those are literally rewrites of the Wizard of Oz, from different perspectives occasionally, but they are still the same story retold.

There's no debate to be had here; book rewrites exist and it's absurd and patently false to claim otherwise.

Incidentally, your example of "The Great Gatsby" will be wrong too soon enough, because that's literally being rewritten right now. Because the copyright on the book only expired this year. It's already happening. Those students won't be the last to adapt that novel either.
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I'm going to start off with the acknowledgement that books and movies to get adaptations, remakes, reimaginings.
And they don't particularly correlate with this situation.

Let's look at these Oz examples.
-Only one of them could really be termed a rewrite, more a regional fairy tale variant than anything else, which then sprung its own sequels that take things even further from the original. And it actually maintains some level of hold, particularly in its native Russia and other nearby areas that would have received The Wizard of Emerald City over the Wizard of Oz and thus have a connection to it instead. It's a fascinating exercise in regional fairy tale variants. But it makes different commentary than Baum's work, with different themes. It ceases, truly, to be the same as the work as its predecessor beyond being a mere update. It's more of a less-divergent Powers of Darkness.
-Barnstormer is a sequel to the first Oz book, attempting to recontextualize and rationalize the story.
-Was casts Oz as a coping device, a land that never actually existed, in addition to other aspects such as a parallel tale based on Oz actress Judy Garland, but not a retelling of the same story.
-Wicked is a complete recontextualization up until it rewrites the story as we know it, actually more akin to The Last Ringbearer in some ways than any actual rewriting.

Of these, only The Wizard of Emerald City could theoretically fit this thread, but even it goes back to the aforementioned problem of becoming something else.

Beyond that, we're falling into the likes of Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea or Coatzee's Foe or Eskov's The Last Ringbearer. All interesting takes that recontextualize the original texts and have earned their own existence, but none of them remakes.

Even Gilded in Ash is less an actual rewrite of Great Gatsby and more a taking concepts to play with elsewhere, a lesson in intertextuality, perhaps, but sounding less and less like an actual remake.

The Shakespeare example is especially interesting. As a playwright, he created works that could be substantially altered in every performance, by delivery and diction, set and costume design, acting directions, et cetera. We have the bones of these works, and we place flesh and clothing upon them.
Even then, yeah, we have loose adaptations that change a lot, but those often bill themselves less as Shakespeare and more as their own entity, and we keep going back to the Bard's takes when all is said and done. Really, for derivative works, time is likely to be more kind to a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead than to any number of other works.

These contextualizations are truly more akin to when Symphony of the Night adapted the Metroid style to its own purposes, when Fusion stripped away some of the exploratory aspects and removed player-and-Samus agency as part of its plot and theming, or through any number of other games that put their own spin on the metroidvania search-action genre of design

We're better off referencing Resident Evil Remake, but even that becomes its own thing -- as it must --, playing with knowledge of the original for different tricks.

But this all loops back around. What does Super Metroid truly gain from being torn down to be reconstructed, and what do we truly gain as a result? What does such a remake truly offer?

Does it all come down to this?
Magic-Man said:
Most people don't like playing old games that they didn't grow up with.
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For the most part -- and please tear this statement apart if it's incorrect -- this seems to stem from an unwillingness to meet the media on its own terms, not so much on the media itself being unworthy of experiencing as it is. Our resident Holy (former?) Ghost puts it thus:
xghost777 said:
In Super Metroid’s case, the controls are essentially the same thing you have in Dread (and Fusion and Zero Mission). 2D gameplay hasn’t changed much at all since Super Metroid. If people don’t like the control layout, they probably didn’t play around with the in-game button mapping features. I agree the default layout is bad, but that’s no reason to remake a game. If the layout isn’t your issue, but rather the feel, I’d tell people to stick with it beyond first blush. Samus’ controls are 100% built for the game. It may not come natural because it is unique, but the way it is designed ultimately invites mastery and greater freedom of expression in a way the following games don’t. Fusion and Zero Mission despite feeling immediately snappier and pleasing are not inherently better.

As for the graphics, I really don’t think age is the issue, some people just don’t connect with pixel art. That’s their issue, not the game’s, and again not worth 3-4 years of hard work that would be better spent elsewhere to please them.
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And I attempt to dissect the phenomenon as such:
Supreme Overlord said:
I understand this as a phenomenon. Much like many people have reasons they don't like older literature -- the vocabulary is too archaic, the sentence formation is too different, the (legitimately good!) writing doesn't match modern sensibilities, the reader simply doesn't want to like it or doesn't think they should --, there are reasons people might not get into older games. But, just as I see no reason (legitimately good!) older literature needs to be "remade," I'm not convinced this is a reason (legitimately good!) older games should be either.

I'm curious what it is, though, that puts you off these games specifically.
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There are any number of reasons someone might not connect with a text, a game, or any other piece of media, but that doesn't inherently mean it needs remade. We've had shiny 3D graphics suggested here a few times as something to gain from a remake, but even if a chunk of people don't connect to pixel art, this doesn't strike me as compelling grounds for a remake -- who's to say these same people would connect to the particular 3D graphics that find use, or that pixel art proponents won't be alienated?

Fact is, the game still works well, and that doesn't seem like something that really changes. The issues people might find with it still strike me as more akin to being unable to get into older writing sensibilities or sentence formations or wordings, a problem many find falls away if they give the text more than a cursory chance.

What do we actually gain from such a proposition, which wouldn't equally be gained through a new game? Are we truly just looking at modern sensibilities and refusing to meet a good game on its own terms?
 
Excellent post @Supreme Overlord , loved the book analysis especially. I agree people would be happier if they met media on its own terms. No game exists in a vacuum, but they did each come out at a specific time and place. New and old media are both cool! So much awesome stuff to enjoy!

Also I enjoyed this is the first time I’ve been called a Holy Ghost :). My username dates back to StarCraft. I was a huge fan of the ghost unit (I considered making its portrait my avatar here, but it’s very low res and I’m not happy Blizzard hasn’t addressed its working conditions right now) and 777 is my favorite number (I needed luck in that game growing up lol). The x was added after someone swooped my user name on Xbox and has stuck ever since. I was the former ghost777 lol.
 
I personally don't really want it and wouldn't buy it. At one point remakes feel superfluous to me, and Super Metroid is one of them. Sure, I guess some extra buttons would be nice, but that's it. By the time you start changing how beams, gravity, movement, or anything, works... you end up with a very different game. Super Metroid is slower and moodier than newer Metroid games, and I'm not sure you would be able to recapture that with a remake. Sure, they could just recreate it 1:1 with prettier graphics and extra buttons, but I doubt those that think the game is a relic of the past would be fine with that.

And with the game having been so readily available everywhere, part of me wonders if a remake would actually find an audience?

I'd rather see an entirely new Metroid game, perhaps one that slows down the pace a bit.
 
0
Sure bring it on. I’ve been playing and replaying the original since I was 13. For me it’s a perfect game and I’ll always have that experience.

If they want to use that impeccable design/story and make something “new”, have at it.
 
Clix said:
My thing is, the biggest complaint I hear are the controls. Like they’re clunky. Which is weird? Cause Samus is not stiff at all. She is suero fast and nimble in it. Her Juno’s are floatier but faster.
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I could maybe understand needing an adjustment period if you’re used to newer games, but the idea that the controls render Super Metroid unplayable for a newcomer is a real head scratcher to me.
 
I don't see how they would do it, but I don't oppose it as long as they understand this is Super Metroid here. You can't return to it unless you have a really outlandish reason why.
 
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Clix said:
My thing is, the biggest complaint I hear are the controls. Like they’re clunky. Which is weird? Cause Samus is not stiff at all. She is suero fast and nimble in it. Her Juno’s are floatier but faster.
Click to expand...
The biggest issues with the controls:

-Using two buttons for aiming
-Separate run button
-The way you select weapons

Super could really benefit from QoL upgrade with widescreen and reworked controls. You could remap it to Dread-style controls pretty easily, and the run button should just trigger shinesparking, with Samus running automatically like in the later games. It's not a huge barrier or anything but the weapon switching especially has always felt clunky.
 
SlightlyMadGames said:
Why? Because I personally like the Zelda: Link's Awakening Remake?

Looks like you're from ResetEra ;)
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I don't think he said that because he's from ResetEra, lol.

I know you're not a bot, SlightlyMad, and I legit dig your enthusiasm! If I can provide some honest feedback, however, to improve legibility and make things come across more naturally...
SlightlyMadGames said:
Thanks for the Write-Up :)

I absolutely agree that Super Metroid is Perfect!!! But a Super Metroid Remake with new Visuals and a reimagined Soundtrack for the Nintendo Switch would be a Dream ;)

Why are we not allowed to have a Super Metroid and a Super Metroid Remake? You would be still able to experience Super Metroid for the Super Nintendo when Nintendo would release a Super Metroid Remake for the Nintendo Switch ;)
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Just taking this post as an example, you don't need to say Nintendo Switch each time, you can just say Switch, and people will know what you mean. Additionally, reading "Super Metroid" that many times in a single post makes the head spin a bit!

Small edit I made:
Thanks for the write-up :)

I absolutely agree that Super Metroid is perfect!!! But a remake with new visuals and a reimagined soundtrack for the Switch would be a dream ;)

Why are we not allowed to have the original game coexist alongside its remake? You would be still able to go back and experience the original.
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Definitely ain't trying to rag on your typing style, since we all have our own personalities that tend to shine through in the way we post, but a little less redundancy would definitely improve ease of reading!
 
yeah, why not. let mercury steam do it, they earned it.

remakes don't take anything away from the originals.

edit: also, i am of the opinion that super metroid is a perfect game.
 
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My view on it, pixelart doesn't need remakes. I still play and love SNES games as they are. Good scanlines are great, but essentially the games hold up to this day.
For everything PS1/N64 related I prefer remakes. Then with Dread you already got your "remake" ;)
 
0
No, make new games. Unlike Metroid 1 and 2 there is also no need to design a new game with a similar concept, because the game design of the original Super Metroid is already outstanding.
 
0
I'm in the same boat as a lot of the other users. I mean, I'd probably play it if it did come out but it doesn't really need a revisit at this juncture.

Maybe sometime down the line, sure, but not rn.
 
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Branduil said:
The biggest issues with the controls:

-Using two buttons for aiming
-Separate run button
-The way you select weapons

Super could really benefit from QoL upgrade with widescreen and reworked controls. You could remap it to Dread-style controls pretty easily, and the run button should just trigger shinesparking, with Samus running automatically like in the later games. It's not a huge barrier or anything but the weapon switching especially has always felt clunky.
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See widescreen I am firmly against. These older games were designed for a non widescreen perspective. Not sure why so many people want old games to be widescreen. It's like watching older movies with zoom on or widescreen movies with pan and scan.

I do agree with you about the aiming and weapon select however. Although, I do prefer a button for run. As much as I love Dread's controls, pressing on the stick to run I did not like. I wish I could just hold down the shoulder button or press and hold A.
 
It’s a shame you can’t button map retro games individually on Switch like you could on Wii U. You could map Run to a shoulder button which was awesome.
 
Clix said:
See widescreen I am firmly against. These older games were designed for a non widescreen perspective. Not sure why so many people want old games to be widescreen. It's like watching older movies with zoom on or widescreen movies with pan and scan.

I do agree with you about the aiming and weapon select however. Although, I do prefer a button for run. As much as I love Dread's controls, pressing on the stick to run I did not like. I wish I could just hold down the shoulder button or press and hold A.
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You're conflating run and speedboost. In Super Metroid run and speedboost are two different things, you have to press the run button to go at your full non-speedboost speed, leading to stuff like the "noob bridge." I'm saying they should just let you run all the time without pressing a button, like in all the later games, and the button should only be for speedboost.
 
Branduil said:
You're conflating run and speedboost. In Super Metroid run and speedboost are two different things, you have to press the run button to go at your full non-speedboost speed, leading to stuff like the "noob bridge." I'm saying they should just let you run all the time without pressing a button, like in all the later games, and the button should only be for speedboost.
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Ah okay my bad. Thought you were talking about spin boost. I see what you mean. I always thought she was pretty fast as is but I woudn't be against faster by default.
 
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Aurc said:
I don't think he said that because he's from ResetEra, lol.

I know you're not a bot, SlightlyMad, and I legit dig your enthusiasm! If I can provide some honest feedback, however, to improve legibility and make things come across more naturally...

Just taking this post as an example, you don't need to say Nintendo Switch each time, you can just say Switch, and people will know what you mean. Additionally, reading "Super Metroid" that many times in a single post makes the head spin a bit!

Small edit I made:

Definitely ain't trying to rag on your typing style, since we all have our own personalities that tend to shine through in the way we post, but a little less redundancy would definitely improve ease of reading!
Click to expand...

It would be great if People would accept my writing Style because that's how I am and I really didn't thought that my writing Style is hard to read or could make others upset. It would be really great if you'll would accept my writing Style even if it is maybe a little confusing or weird and I really don't want to hurt anyone with my writing Style! Thanks :)
 
xghost777 said:
Excellent post @Supreme Overlord , loved the book analysis especially. I agree people would be happier if they met media on its own terms. No game exists in a vacuum, but they did each come out at a specific time and place. New and old media are both cool! So much awesome stuff to enjoy!
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Thanks, though I'd hesitate to call any of that book analysis. I haven't read any of those near recently enough to hazard doing any such thing.

But, yeah, if you don't meet media on its own terms, there will always be things you might find should be different. This is even more so for pieces that simply don't match common or modern convention.

Of course, even then, recontextualizing texts won't work unless multiple pieces can be examined against each other. That doesn't mean we shoudn't still attempt to meet a piece where it is, but it does mean there are multiple ways of looking at one thing, and sometimes the introduction of a new piece will affect how we perceive another, for better or worse.

In any case, this is a sublime example of that phenomenon, where one might find resistance to a piece of media and not give it a fair shake:
Mekanos said:
I could maybe understand needing an adjustment period if you’re used to newer games, but the idea that the controls render Super Metroid unplayable for a newcomer is a real head scratcher to me.
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It's similar to not being able to get into those older texts because the style isn't what we're used to. There's nothing wrong with them, just like Super Metroid still works today. I think it was around here somewhere where I saw someone saying they introduce non-gamers to Super Metroid, and it'll just click with them, and that's why they consider it a great game.

Clearly there's something there beyond an archaic mess. It just doesn't match what we think it should, and so we don't give it a chance beyond that impression.

Regardless, I'm not trying to call anybody out for not liking old games, and I'm certainly not saying people can't personally want a remake. But a lot of discourse does seem to revolve around an inability or unwillingness to meet old media on its terms, and I really don't see that, in itself, as a compelling reason to remake something.

I'd certainly be interested to hear various reasoning for the topic.
 
Xghost777, I forgot to add to my previous post:
So it seems we have a formerly holy ghost among us, perhaps even a mundanely profane spectre?

Aurc said:
Aww! These are great! I'd love some Metroid-themed racing buddies in the next Mario Kart, lol. The Etecoons and Dachoras are quite lovable, and would be a perfect fit. I just hope mama Dachora and her baby don't cheat by Shinesparking their way to the finish line...
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Oh, thanks. I'll lead here with my obligatory disclaimer that I do not particularly care for the Nintendo Kart concept that gets bandied about, but if there were to be playable representation from Metroid, this really does seem like a way to go. We know these critters can drive, right?
And as for Shinesparking, well, remember way back when Double Dash was a thing and individual characters had personal powerups?


Okay, so what is this, anyhow?
SlightlyMadGames said:
Looks like you're from ResetEra ;)
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Is this meant to be some sort of sick burn? Because it would be, at most, a mild irritant, but probably not even that. Seriously, though, this isn't the only time I've seen this general take around these parts, and it doesn't make sense in any occurrence.
SlightlyMadGames said:
These useful Improvements could be all added to a Super Metroid Remake ;)
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Anyhow, this presupposes that a remake is an absolute gain that we should all want, but the request was primarily for QOL improvements to the original. Adding them into a remake doesn't really act on the desire for them to be added to the game as it exists (again, this remake would create a whole new game). Dopply earlier pointed to the Super Metroid Redux ROM hack as an example of what QOL additions could be, all within the confines of the already-existing game.
Nintendo could even just add toggleable QOL features to the version in my requested Metroid collection, and there would be no need to create a remake for them.

SlightlyMadGames said:
It would be great if People would accept my writing Style because that's how I am and I really didn't thought that my writing Style is hard to read or could make others upset. It would be really great if you'll would accept my writing Style even if it is maybe a little confusing or weird and I really don't want to hurt anyone with my writing Style! Thanks :)
Click to expand...
I'll preface this with a statement that no one here is or can make you change your manner of writing, but I'd like to note that writing styles, while they can be a conduit for our personalities, change and evolve over time as we learn and grow and practice. The repetition and lack of pronoun usage might be disorienting to people, might draw attention primarily to the repeated words and thus detract from different aspects of your text, and that's up to you to decide whether you want to act upon, but you can train yourself into a different style if you so choose.
Styles are amorphous things, ever changing on the whims of desire and circumstance.

Incidentally, I've noticed you tend to capitalize all your nouns. Bist du vielleicht Deutscher?
 
Magic-Man said:
I really hate this kind of thinking. Remakes/remasters introduce new gamers to beloved classics that they might not get into otherwise. Most people don't like playing old games that they didn't grow up with.
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This honestly probably says a lot more about GAMERS ™ then it does about old video games themselves
 
I don't think fusion or super (or zero mission) need a remake. That said, I wouldn't so no to a rebuild to unify the control schemes and maybe include/replace xray scope with the mechanism in Dread. Maybe also update the mapping system (OMG the one in Dread is great) and implement autorun everywhere that speed boosting is available.

The graphics on Zero Mission, Super, and Fusion however are great how they are - they just need a little TLC. 16-bit pixel art is hot right now anyway.
 
What would REALLY be cool is a third person 3D reimagining of super.

  • It could try and address the issues with other M’s gameplay and refine it
  • It’s its own thing, simply using the setting and story. So it’s less for the fans to get mad and draw comparisons about
  • It’s new enough to where we don’t get remake fatigue, and they don’t have to stress about making a new story
  • it allows them to bring back Metroid iconography such as Ridley and Mother Brain, while Metroid 6 will push the series forward.
 
Phendrift said:
What would REALLY be cool is a third person 3D reimagining of super.

  • It could try and address the issues with other M’s gameplay and refine it
  • It’s its own thing, simply using the setting and story. So it’s less for the fans to get mad and draw comparisons about
  • It’s new enough to where we don’t get remake fatigue, and they don’t have to stress about making a new story
  • it allows them to bring back Metroid iconography such as Ridley and Mother Brain, while Metroid 6 will push the series forward.
Click to expand...

This is actually a great Idea ;)
 
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Voted yes because as we saw with Zero Mission and Fusion, it's entirely possible for companies as large as Nintendo to simultaneously develop two video games at the same time and there's absolutely no need to choose only one of (a) new games or (b) remakes.
 
Magic-Man said:
I really hate this kind of thinking. Remakes/remasters introduce new gamers to beloved classics that they might not get into otherwise. Most people don't like playing old games that they didn't grow up with. I love Links Awakening for Switch, but I'd never want to play the old version. I can't imagine ever playing the PS2 GTA games when the remasters look so much better. I can't get into Super because the controls, movement, and shooting are super bad and I've seen more than a few other people say the same. We just got a new Metroid game with another on the way. Wouldn't a remake be a good thing?
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You're projecting. Plenty of people from newer generations play old games all the time. Look at the popularity of NSO's retro apps, PC emulation, and retro-style indie games if you want proof. You don't need remakes when the original games are perfectly serviceable, that's just a waste of resources creatively when we could have gotten something new instead.

Remakes are only justifiable when
  1. The developers want to do an majorly original new take on an old game (e.g. RE2 remake, significant gameplay departures and a new perspective)
  2. A series has innovated substantially that a remake of an older entry, in the new style, is creatively interesting (e.g. Zero Mission following the major new series template Super Metroid introduced).
There's been no new major paradigm in 2D Metroid since Super Metroid. Doing SM in the style of Dread would just be redundant.

Your argument is essentially "new games are objectively better because of graphical advances and new design standards being better than the old.", which is flimsy. Graphical fidelity and capability have advanced, but that doesn't change aesthetics. The Link's Awakening remake being at a higher resolution and using 3D assets doesn't mean the it has an objectively better artstyle compared to the original; it's purely an aesthetical preference.

Being used to the design standards of new games doesn't mean standards in older games are inherently "bad" or "dated". Rarely that's actually the case (I wouldn't fault anyone for getting frustrated at elements of Metroid 1, they were technologically limited back that). More frequently, it's the players fault for not being experienced enough, not having enough of a purview, that they only play what they're comfortable with, and that's all they're used to. There's nothing objectively bad with Super Metroid's controls, you're just used to the controls of newer games. And you don't have enough of a tolerance for non-homogenized controls schemes and/or you're not putting enough time in to get acclimated.

Newer Metroids "control better" because they don't have a run button. That's a difference in design philosophy, not being "dated". You can make an argument that SM would control better if it had more buttons to map too, and that's probably the case. But that doesn't make the existing control scheme unusable. You're just not used to it. And you not being used to it doesn't justify a remake when it's a trivial acclimation.

Going back to LA, saying you'd never want to play the original is really stupid considering the Switch version is literally a tile-for-tile remake, that controls nearly exactly the same, and whose only new addition is a redone art style. If you liked Switch LA there's no reason why you wouldn't find the original enjoyable, it's the same game. And you don't need a remake to introduce that game to a new generation: straight re-releases are more cost efficient and don't creatively waste dev resources.
 
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