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Rumour Vicarious Visions was working on an open-world 3D Donkey Kong game called 'Donkey Kong Freedom' for Nintendo Switch back in 2016

Update: I have finished the video and it will be up on Did You Know Gaming in the nearish future. I don't know when it will be scheduled (out of my hands) but it'll be some time in May. It is about an hour long although not all of that is dedicated to Donkey Kong so please don't expect that. It covers a wider story than just that one topic.
 
LiamRobertson said:
Update: I have finished the video and it will be up on Did You Know Gaming in the nearish future. I don't know when it will be scheduled (out of my hands) but it'll be some time in May. It is about an hour long although not all of that is dedicated to Donkey Kong so please don't expect that. It covers a wider story than just that one topic.
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Nice.

It’s interesting how dk always gets the short end of the stick, all the people working on it get bought out or put to work on something else

Rare
Nintendo tokyo
Retro
Now VV
 
Djehuty said:
Nice.

It’s interesting how dk always gets the short end of the stick, all the people working on it get bought out or put to work on something else

Rare
Nintendo tokyo
Retro
Now VV
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Nintendo Tokyo? I assume you meant Jungle Beat and not the hypothetical game everyone keeps rumoring
 
What is sad is that Nintendo is apparently really respectful of Donkey Kong , cares about this IP, and that the franchise has proven to be able to achieve very good sales figures so the situation is all the more incomprehensible.

I must admit however that I am quite disappointed by the sales figures of tropical freeze on switch. Other ports of the Wii U have been commercially very successful, this has not been the case for Donkey Kong and I do not understand why given the extreme quality of the game and the excellent sales of Donkey Kong Country Returns on the previous console.
 
Can't say for 100% certainty but it felt like the casual audience had their fill with DKCR. Some were even caught off guard by how difficult Returns was next to say NSMB back during the Wii days, so I wouldn't be surprised if some people just didn't feel like coming back for a second time. Because even with the new additions it's still at the end of the day more DKC. You're either on board or you're not.

I don’t think TF did poorly but, I doubt we will be getting another DKC game anytime soon.

Even then Retro feels like the only Studio capable of making it and keeping it at this bar of quality but they have been busy with other stuff since 2014.
 
boodream said:
I must admit however that I am quite disappointed by the sales figures of tropical freeze on switch. Other ports of the Wii U have been commercially very successful, this has not been the case for Donkey Kong and I do not understand why given the extreme quality of the game and the excellent sales of Donkey Kong Country Returns on the previous console.
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I mean, it continues to be insulting that NSMBU vastly outsells it, but it's far ahead of any other Wii U ports that didn't have entire new games attached to them. It's probably done at least 5 million on Switch by now, not bad for a rerelease four years later with minimal additions and a higher price than the original had at launch. I'd be surprised if its Switch sales didn't pass Returns' Wii sales by the time they stop counting, it's not very far behind.

I'm confused by the dogged persistence of the narrative that it's ever sold poorly. Even on Wii U it did a couple million, and was one of only 11 games on the system to even do that much. One of only two that was never a pack-in with the system itself.
 
VDenter said:
Even then Retro feels like the only Studio capable of making it and keeping it at this bar of quality but they have been busy with other stuff since 2014.
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Rare was irreplaceable until Retro proved otherwise. I think there's talent everywhere, and it's possible to recruit it. Retro, for example, hired former Naughty Dogs for DK. I don't see why, for example, Next Level Games couldn't bring in talented people, such as exs from VV or Toys for Bob, to work on a new Donkey Kong Country.
Stilt Village said:
I'm confused by the dogged persistence of the narrative that it's ever sold poorly. Even on Wii U it did a couple million, and was one of only 11 games on the system to even do that much. One of only two that was never a pack-in with the system itself.
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There's no "narrative" here I think. It didn't sell badly in absolute terms, but compared to its quality, as you say yourself, and compared to something as generic as NSMBUD.
 
It’s a shame that Tropical Freeze couldn’t manage to hit NSMBUD numbers. I’d say ultimately it comes down to the difficulty. For most of us it isn’t that bad and when it does get that bad I say most of us embrace that challenge.

I remember buying Returns for some cousins at Christmas and by level 2 they had enough. Came back a year later to see how much progress had been made and they had not finished the first world. It’s not like these weren’t gamer kids either, they sure did enjoy Mario and Xbox shooters. Donkey Kong Country though? Frustrated the ship out of them.
 
Sampdoria said:
Outside of Mario games, It's the best selling Wii U port. Even sold more than the Skyward Sword port. Should be at 5 million by now.
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Oh really?! That's not so bad! It truly deserved(what's the Switch's install base? 140milllion?) 140 million in sales but 5 million of a higher priced Wii U port is better than I thought.

If Tropical Freeze was like the exact same caliber of game but only a 3D title I bet it would have moved a ton more units. It's purely anecdotal but it seems like people are willing to give super difficult 3D games of most any genre more of a chance than a super difficult 2D platformer.
 
VDenter said:
Even then Retro feels like the only Studio capable of making it and keeping it at this bar of quality but they have been busy with other stuff since 2014.
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Next Level Games could easily make a great Donkey Kong game.

Also, I'm not expecting Retro Studios to ever touch the franchise again. For Prime 4 they staffed up big time on vets of Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, etc. I don't think you make a DK game with that type of personnel on hand.
 
boodream said:
What is sad is that Nintendo is apparently really respectful of Donkey Kong , cares about this IP, and that the franchise has proven to be able to achieve very good sales figures so the situation is all the more incomprehensible.

I must admit however that I am quite disappointed by the sales figures of tropical freeze on switch. Other ports of the Wii U have been commercially very successful, this has not been the case for Donkey Kong and I do not understand why given the extreme quality of the game and the excellent sales of Donkey Kong Country Returns on the previous console.
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I think that the 4m+(safe to say it's getting to 5m eventually?) it sold on Switch is far more than Nintendo expected it to sell. It didn't add much content(tbh it's the most vanilla of the Wii U ports, aside from Bayonetta but that was 2 games), had a quick reveal to release cycle and wasn't marketed forever with ads and such like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and NSMBU.

It doubled the Wii U release, sold more than a Zelda remaster with more effort put into(Skyward Sword HD), and really was only behind the absolute best selling Wii U rereleases(Mario Kart 8 Deluxe because it's the Switch Mario Kart, 3D World + Bowser's Fury because it's a 3D Mario and NSMBU DX because it was Switch 2D Mario until Wonder). It's not far behind even Kirby and the Forgotten Land which was a 3D reinvention of the franchise.

I believe the next DK game by EPD Tokyo can be a breakout hit for the franchise and make it return to its heights of Country 1 and Returns, being kinda safe that it's gonna sell 5m+, but it can grow to sell 10m even. Which is absolutely nuts for a platformer not named Mario.
 
We had rumors about Nintendo searching for new partners … so maybe one of them will be the new DK house? Sumo digital could fit very well imho.

“I also know that Nintendo is actively meeting with independent developers to find new partners. Some of that is around publishing indie games, which Nintendo does from time-to-time, but it's also seeking studios that could work on some of its IP. Nintendo regularly works with third-party teams, including Bandai Namco, Team Ninja, Platinum Games, MercurySteam, WayForward and Grezzo. But the company is looking to add to that roster, and I know of three studios that are deep in conversation around making games based on Nintendo brands“

www.gamesindustry.biz

How can Nintendo Switch 2 surpass its predecessor? | Opinion

We all thought Nintendo Switch would be a disaster.I've told this story before, but I enjoy telling it. Nintendo fully …
www.gamesindustry.biz www.gamesindustry.biz
 
Triistan said:
We had rumors about Nintendo searching for new partners … so maybe one of them will be the new DK house? Sumo digital could fit very well imho.
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Playtonic is the best possible option for DK. Impossible Lair is pretty much closest thing to Country series and they can try their hand on 3D DK as well.

Another option would be Toys for Bob but it seems they're doing their own thing now (Banjo? Spyro?)
 
I just hope that DK isn't one of those "you only need one game per system" series in Nintendos eyes. I'd hate to finally get a new DK on Switch 2 only to have to wait another decade for the next one for arbitrary reasons.
 
Sin & Punishment said:
Next Level Games could easily make a great Donkey Kong game.

Also, I'm not expecting Retro Studios to ever touch the franchise again. For Prime 4 they staffed up big time on vets of Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, etc. I don't think you make a DK game with that type of personnel on hand.
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we really can't use hires to guess that. remember when they hired a lot of people from Naughty Dog and Vigil Games (Darksiders series) only for them to be working on Tropical Freeze?
 
ILikeFeet said:
we really can't use hires to guess that. remember when they hired a lot of people from Naughty Dog and Vigil Games (Darksiders series) only for them to be working on Tropical Freeze?
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Jak and Daxter and Uncharted are platformers. (+ jungle locations)

Darksiders games have a lot of platforming and puzzles.

I'd say Donkey Kong is within the wheelhouse.
 
Tropical Freeze did not do as badly as it did on the Wii U because of how difficult DKCR was perceived

On the Wii U, DKCTF sold just over 2 million copies

On the 3DS DKCR sold just under 3 million copies and that was a port of a game that had come out only 3 years earlier

Combining the Wii and 3DS sales, DKCR was the second highest selling DK game ever, which is probably why they’re leaning so heavily into that brand for the new park
 
ILikeFeet said:
that was more people expecting some kind of adult-oriented game akin to Uncharted and Darksiders since the people in question were artists
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peter-richmond-darksiders-scene-treec.jpg

839772-932984_20071119_001.jpg


Donkey Kong.
 
Marce-chan said:
I think that the 4m+(safe to say it's getting to 5m eventually?) it sold on Switch is far more than Nintendo expected it to sell. It didn't add much content(tbh it's the most vanilla of the Wii U ports, aside from Bayonetta but that was 2 games), had a quick reveal to release cycle and wasn't marketed forever with ads and such like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and NSMBU.

It doubled the Wii U release, sold more than a Zelda remaster with more effort put into(Skyward Sword HD), and really was only behind the absolute best selling Wii U rereleases(Mario Kart 8 Deluxe because it's the Switch Mario Kart, 3D World + Bowser's Fury because it's a 3D Mario and NSMBU DX because it was Switch 2D Mario until Wonder). It's not far behind even Kirby and the Forgotten Land which was a 3D reinvention of the franchise.

I believe the next DK game by EPD Tokyo can be a breakout hit for the franchise and make it return to its heights of Country 1 and Returns, being kinda safe that it's gonna sell 5m+, but it can grow to sell 10m even. Which is absolutely nuts for a platformer not named Mario.
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I suppose I'm just a little saddened, as a DK and Mario fan, that a game as polished and as noticeably improved on its predecessor as DKCTF was much less successful than NSMBU, which is literally a generic launch game improvised more or less in a panic by Nintendo.
 
Truno said:
They’ve yet to prove that they can. NLG is not even close to the same pedigree of Retro
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They proven they can make highly polished games that attain critical and commercial acclaim. More so than Retro has for the latter. And they released more games than Retro has.

"pedigree" doesn't mean much here if NLG isn't worthy of an attempt
 
Sampdoria said:
Outside of Mario games, It's the best selling Wii U port. Even sold more than the Skyward Sword port. Should be at 5 million by now.
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I wish they had added some extra stuff other than Funky mode. I still stop myself every time I think of double dipping. It's my favorite Wii U game.
 
Next Level Games:
  • Great at making detailed environments
  • Great at cartoon characters
  • Has no idea how to design a platformer
  • Do not have anyone who can do the music justice

Retro Studios making DKCR:
  • Great at making detailed environments
  • Cannot do cartoon characters
  • Has no idea how to design a platformer
  • Do not have anyone who can do the music justice

If they were afforded the same resources and room for iteration, I think it would be fine. ...Not that I expect NLG to ever make a DKC.
 
Skies said:
I'm sorry but I absolutely refuse to believe Miyamoto was concerned about Donkey Kong getting rope burn of the sole of his feet.
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Really? I think that's exactly the kind of input Miyamoto would give when checking in on a third-party developer making a new entry in one of the franchises he started.
 
Idk if you really have to find a new studio for DK. There are options within Nintendo's roster already; the clear answer is building one of their existing studios up to handle multiple projects. Why is it that after all this time Retro and NLG only have one game in full production at a time? Where's Monster Games been?

Number1000DKFan said:
Tropical Freeze did not do as badly as it did on the Wii U because of how difficult DKCR was perceived

On the Wii U, DKCTF sold just over 2 million copies

On the 3DS DKCR sold just under 3 million copies and that was a port of a game that had come out only 3 years earlier

Combining the Wii and 3DS sales, DKCR was the second highest selling DK game ever, which is probably why they’re leaning so heavily into that brand for the new park
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I've been thinking about Tropical Freeze sales a lot lately, and with the theme park trailer this morning, I'm thinking about it again. It doesn't really make sense. DK is a very popular brand, word-of-mouth is really positive about it.

I really think something that hurt TF's sales potential is the name. I've never really liked it. When I hear Donkey Kong Country, I think of the DK brand and I know exactly what I'm getting into (as evidenced by the Universal park being called that as well). But when I hear Tropical Freeze, I think of Spyro: Fire and Ice. I think of Crash: Mind Over Mutant, or Crash of the Titans. It just sounds like another DKC "episode". When in reality the game itself is a creative and grand island-hopping adventure. It doesn't sound like the next big DKC game. I think that's always hurt it a little bit.

Truno said:
They’ve yet to prove that they can. NLG is not even close to the same pedigree of Retro
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Very much disagree, but I've also been pretty clear about how my opinion of Retro has changed. Every game that NLG has put out has been made well. Even Mario Strikers; the Switch version isn't much different than what the other games have been in the past.

And Retro hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since Tropical Freeze. Their last two releases were HD remasters (not discounting the great job Retro did artistically with Metroid Prime, but the actual game is no different). If anything, Retro has more to prove lately than NLG.
 
Christo750 said:
Idk if you really have to find a new studio for DK. There are options within Nintendo's roster already; the clear answer is building one of their existing studios up to handle multiple projects. Why is it that after all this time Retro and NLG only have one game in full production at a time? Where's Monster Games been?


I've been thinking about Tropical Freeze sales a lot lately, and with the theme park trailer this morning, I'm thinking about it again. It doesn't really make sense. DK is a very popular brand, word-of-mouth is really positive about it.

I really think something that hurt TF's sales potential is the name. I've never really liked it. When I hear Donkey Kong Country, I think of the DK brand and I know exactly what I'm getting into (as evidenced by the Universal park being called that as well). But when I hear Tropical Freeze, I think of Spyro: Fire and Ice. I think of Crash: Mind Over Mutant, or Crash of the Titans. It just sounds like another DKC "episode". When in reality the game itself is a creative and grand island-hopping adventure. It doesn't sound like the next big DKC game. I think that's always hurt it a little bit.


Very much disagree, but I've also been pretty clear about how my opinion of Retro has changed. Every game that NLG has put out has been made well. Even Mario Strikers; the Switch version isn't much different than what the other games have been in the past.

And Retro hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since Tropical Freeze. Their last two releases were HD remasters (not discounting the great job Retro did artistically with Metroid Prime, but the actual game is no different). If anything, Retro has more to prove lately than NLG.
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To be honest when I first heard about it I thought all the levels were ice levels
 
Number1000DKFan said:
To be honest when I first heard about it I thought all the levels were ice levels
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yeahhh exactly. like why is it named that? Cause DK island is frozen by the new baddies? who cares? we're barely there. The "freeze" motif is not nearly as present as it should be to justify that name.

Kind of riffing on the Mario Odyssey idea but it should've been marketed about traveling and fighting your way through different islands to get back to DK island. Idk the word for it but some type of voyage back home to reclaim their country which was taken over. That's what the game is actually about at the end of the day.
 
It looks like Tropical Freeze has sold close to 5M on the Switch. I don't think that's bad for a Wii U port. Sonic Frontiers has sold 3.5M in the two years it's been out while being multiplatform. Sonic is a more popular franchise too.

This makes me think that 2D platformers aren't popular as they once were. Mario is the exception. Nintendo didn't do a good job either of making Donkey Kong seem that prestigious in the time between DK64 and Returns. I'm hoping the next game is a 3D one. Donkey Kong needs it Breath of the Wild of the series.
 
Christo750 said:
I really think something that hurt TF's sales potential is the name. I've never really liked it. When I hear Donkey Kong Country, I think of the DK brand and I know exactly what I'm getting into (as evidenced by the Universal park being called that as well). But when I hear Tropical Freeze, I think of Spyro: Fire and Ice. I think of Crash: Mind Over Mutant, or Crash of the Titans. It just sounds like another DKC "episode". When in reality the game itself is a creative and grand island-hopping adventure. It doesn't sound like the next big DKC game. I think that's always hurt it a little bit.
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I mean, it was branded as Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, what the internet shortens it too isn't really nintendos fault.

Besides that, I think it's closer to, there's actually only so much demand for donkey kong platformers.

DKCR did 6.53m and then tropical freeze did 4.62m on switch up to December 2022, which is at 70% of the sales. Even without taking the Wii U version in to account, that's already a better result than Donkey kong country 1 (9.30m) ->2 (5.15m, 55% of sales) and 2->3 (3.51m, 68% of sales).

But it's not like approaching 5m sales is a bad result
 
I too always thought the name was a little… say “off putting” for lack of a better term. Tropical Freeze is neat little bit of word play but it does come off as a little too icy, snowy and goofy for what the actual game entails.

I agree something that evoked the idea of island hopping on a long journey could work. Donkey Kong Country: Expedition, DKC: Island Expedition. DKC: Frontiers!







& Knuckles
 
Romancedawn said:
I too always thought the name was a little… say “off putting” for lack of a better term. Tropical Freeze is neat little bit of word play but it does come off as a little too icy, snowy and goofy for what the actual game entails.

I agree something that evoked the idea of island hopping on a long journey could work. Donkey Kong Country: Expedition, DKC: Island Expedition. DKC: Frontiers!







& Knuckles
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Donkey Kong Odyssey
 
Smaggledaggle said:
Alright, I finished watching the video and I have some lingering questions that weren't specified in the video. I know that Liam has an account on here and if he could shine some light on these questions that would be greatly appreciated.

1. In the rumors, there was mention of how during the development of the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy the foliage used in the jungle levels originally came from Project Freedom, was that ever confirmed?
2. The rumors stated that after the project was canned, a Donkey Kong project was started in Japan (DKVine states it was Nintendo EPD), again can you confirm or deny this rumor?
3. Can you confirm or deny you saw any footage/screenshots from the prototype/build(s)? To add onto this question, do you believe Nintendo Pr*me saw footage of the game, or was it something else he saw?
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I don't know what the rule is on posting the same message in different threads. But if Liam happens to be only watching certain threads, it would be cool if he could see this.
 
0
While Liam couldn't confirm many of the specifics from DKVine's coverage I'm now more inclined to give Hyle the benefit of the doubt on the more specific Miyamoto details just 'cause, who on earth reaches out to a Donkey Kong fansite to spill the beans first? Unless they were someone really really close to the project and really pissed about it being cancelled.
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
While Liam couldn't confirm many of the specifics from DKVine's coverage I'm now more inclined to give Hyle the benefit of the doubt on the more specific Miyamoto details just 'cause, who on earth reaches out to a Donkey Kong fansite to spill the beans first? Unless they were someone really really close to the project and really pissed about it being cancelled.
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Probably someone who wanted to fabricate details to make it seem cooler.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Probably someone who wanted to fabricate details to make it seem cooler.
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The project is pretty cool sounding as is. So idk what lying would accomplish, but well if Liam couldn't uncover anything I doubt we will either in the span of a forum argument.

Let's just agree to disagree.
 
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