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Discussion Why do so many Nintendo fans dislike Pokemon?

Wockio

Wockio

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I know that sounds weird... but think about it. There's a lot of Nintendo fans that seem to really not like the franchise despite playing a variety of other Nintendo games, and I feel this has only been intensified by the recent controversies that have taken place within online discourse surrounding the games. In this very forum the perception of Pokemon is extremely poor, with people groaning every time there's big news or it shows up in a Direct.

Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are likewise othered, but I think that's understandable considering the anime aesthetic and the games themselves maybe not being the easiest to get into. But Pokemon? It's the most accessible thing ever, and it's never been too weeby. So what gives?
 
I think the issue people have with Pokémon is that it’s the highest grossing series in the world, yet seems to be behind far less successful peers in just about every category. Obviously there is much more to a games development then money, and judging by what little we know about what’s going on at gamefreak it seems like they have a metric shit ton of problems internally, but it’s still a bit insulting just how much better games like Xenoblade are in terms of quality despite being
1.) far longer
2.) made at a relatively similar rate to Pokemon (we got 2 mainline games, 2 massive expansions, and a remaster that itself has a major expansion during the switches life cycle)
3.) made by Monolith, who is also a support studio for most of the biggest Nintendo games this gen
4.) a significantly less successful series then Pokémon
Combine this frustration with the fact that we rarely get actual spin-offs anymore, pretty much just getting shitty mobile games, and yeah things are pretty bad
 
I just feel like a lot of (specifically) Pokémon fans are just that. They just grew up with that franchise and not specifically Nintendo. I think there are people who didn’t even knew the IP belonged to Nintendo growing up.

On the other side, the oldschool Nintendo fans, maybe they see Pokémon as the guy who grew up to be as important as Mario, Zelda and Metroid and still kinda see it as “second tier” of sorts.
 
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I'm not sure the thesis is correct. But for me I like Nintendo games for their creativity, and Pokemon is probably the most stagnant creatively bankrupt series in all of gaming.
 
Beyond the lack of interest in the games proper (with many liking the series when they were younger and having grown out of it) I think some fans just feel the games can be a bit sloppy and failing to live up to their potential because of the need to fit within the timetable that the broader Pokémon media/merchandising empire demands. And even beyond that some just see a series that has stagnated in one respect or another because the safe money is in continuing what they've been doing for some time. The most acclaimed Nintendo series are the ones that balance broad appeal with genuine innovation and/or creativity with their games and for a few, Pokémon is found to be a bit wanting in that regard.
 
For me, it's a mix of no longer being interested in Pokémon as I was when I was a child, having no interest in turn-based JRPGs, and the fact that these games clearly fall below Nintendo's standards (yes, I know that EPD doesn't develop Pokémon)
 
Because it's a Nintendo game in name only, it would probably be quite a different franchise if Nintendo had 100% creative control.

Or something.
 
You could've made a poll, because I don't think the majority of Nintendo fans actually dislike Pokémon?

But for those who do, I assume it's a mix of issues in terms of visuals, and the fact that Pokémon games are mainly aimed at children so people think that they're getting easier and worst – while the actual thing happening is that people who played Pokémon as kids are getting older and better at games, and are chasing a feeling they'll never find again.
 
I don’t think it matches typical Nintendo creativity, boldness and (since the Switch) technical quality and polish.

But I think it fits nicely into their catalogue and is of course a tremendous IP to have.
 
Personally, I never connected with any monster catching game I've ever played, and Pokemon might not even be the best one of those due to being quite light on story (at least from the ones I've played). If I play any kind of RPG I mostly look forward to experiencing the story or just getting lost in a huge world full of secrets and mysteries, and Pokemon could never provide anything like that (again, from ones I've played. I'm now so disconnected from the series I have no idea how it plays)
 
Idk. Pokemon was one of if not my most played game series on the (3)ds systems.
Was part of my top 3 favorite series next to Zelda and KH.
I just stopped being interested when the quality didn't keep up with other Nintendo big AAA games.
 
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LONG post incoming, from the heart and soul of a lifelong pokemon enthusiast.

Mainline Pokemon games are usually subpar in quality in comparison to their peers like mario and zelda. Low in single player content compared to other mainstream rpgs, stories and writing quality that usually aren't anything to write home about, low graphical and mechanical polish, completely unambitious animations and lack of voice acting that make the characters and pokemon feel like robots at times. Being at the very top of the totem pole of franchise profits doesn't help its case either, its understandable to expect something AAA quality from THAT grossing margin.

I'm not blaming the devs at all of course, they're doing the best they can under the insane pressure that the big dogs upstairs probably put them under. It's hard to manage a COD-tier release schedule especially when the labor is being divided by one (pretty small at that) studio instead of multiple like Activision does for their yearly releases. I'm aware gf outsources things, even some things in sv were outsourced, but they're still wearing the crown as the main developers of all mainline games outside of BDSP.


I think people who are big fans of lot of core nintendo, like xenoblade as another rpg example, and other games too, and spend a lot of time thinking about them (since they're big enough fans to talk about them online), can see how Pokémon as a series contrasts with other big releases they play in the quality front. People who aren't as big of fans (the less vocal people) are more fine with releases that are just satisfactory and fun at the time being. Pokémon games are still undeniably fun with the simple yet deep and addictive combat system, and the Pokémon themselves have very appealing designs.

Holding out hope Pokémon can redeem itself as a franchise, with quality and legendary release one would expect for the largest franchise on earth, games that go far and beyond "satisfactory". I'm looking up to you, legends Z-A! Legends Arceus was an amazing game and I bet you could live up to it, with your unique setting and all.
 
I used to be fine with Pokemon, but as the quality dropped and TPC seemed to have little interest in restoring it to its peak so I've lost interest. Even just improving the presentation by implementing simple things like voice acting would go a long way to change perception of the series.
 
spekkeh said:
I'm not sure the thesis is correct. But for me I like Nintendo games for their creativity, and Pokemon is probably the most stagnant creatively bankrupt series in all of gaming.
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I mean, it's probably up there, but I think things like CoD or the yearly sports games gotta take that particular crown
 
I don't hate Pokemon (I love the GBA/DS Era and Legends Arceus) I just hate the two recent gens, Scarlet and Violet especially is a joke of a game. The quality and creativity of modern Pokemon games has been so bad compared to literally every other Nintendo franchise.
 
I like many Nintendo games; Pokemon has never been one of them. I don't find them fun or endearing in any way.

Edit: I lied, Pokemon Stadium mini-games and Pokemon Puzzle League were fun. That's about the extent of it.
 
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I don't hate the series by any means, but I've grown to despise the company who makes it because they rush out games for quick money. The latest game in the most profitable entertainment franchise ever should not run anywhere near as bad as Scarlet and Violet do. The graphics, animations, and framerates are absolute garbage (and actively makes people's opinions of the Switch hardware worse), they refuse to fix any of it and decide to sell DLC instead, I don't know how we still don't have voice acting yet, and the devs experience heavy crunch because of corporate decisions. It's the worst Nintendo franchise on Switch by a long shot despite actually having two good games (both of which are not made by the normal team, those being Pokémon Snap and Legends Arceus).
 
kasparov77 said:
ahem
Click to expand...

What I think this misses is how fast Gamefreak is pumping out these games. In the same time it takes Nintendo EPD to make a new 3D Mario or Zelda that sells 30 million units (~7 years, or once per generation), Gamefreak has made two generations of Pokemon games that collectively sell ~80 million. So while they are right that Pokemon's total audience has not grown in how you would expect on the Switch, it's made up for the fact by how absurdly consistent the current audience shows up for new releases. Like, it is crazy to me how close Sword/Shield and Scarlet/Violet sold and how all of the not-new-generation mainline games sold. So maybe if Pokemon became a once-per-generation franchise so quality could increase, it might be more reasonable to expect them to sell 40-50 million copies and have that crazy explosive 'Switch-effect' growth. So in essence TPC has traded having a broader audience that shows up once per generation for a narrower audience that will show up every year. 40-50 million once per generation vs. 15-25 million every year.

Sword/Shield = ~26 million
Scarlet/Violet = ~25 million
Let's Go = ~15 million
BDSP = ~15 million
PLA = ~15 million
 
I really like Violet in several ways. They did a good job with the story, new pokemon, some of the characters, designs of the cities, and I like the school but the region feels so lackluster and it feels lifeless in the cities. There are very few fun secrets to find or things to do in the cities. You see the same restaurants side by side, exact copies of the same npcs roaming around (I saw three of the same guy side by side in one area), and there's nothing of interest to the cities except gym challenges. Nothing fun happens in or around them. The GB games' cities have more to them. Even the small towns have little bits of interesting lore or things you can come back to to get an item. Pokemon just makes me feel sad because there's so much potential in the series. I don't care about the graphics or even the stability problems. I just want them to fill the regions with fun things to do, good sidequests, and good secrets to find while you're exploring with your pokemon. I don't care about battling that much. I want to go on adventures with pokemon. And let me ride my own pokemon without silly looking safety gear and saddles with handlebars. Let's Go did that well. The box is with you at all times now and you can just catch whatever you need if you don't have one that can fly, swim, be ridden, etc for whatever reason.
 
Same reason not every fan of the Lion King has to like Star Wars or Marvel just because it's Disney. You like what you like, and you may be a Mario fan and not care about Pokemon or whatever else.
 
Quality has been very mixed for a while now, there's a lot of harsh and fair criticism out there. Mix that with technical weakness being easy to make fun of and like others have said obviously more people like Pokémon than most other Nintendo franchises. Maybe just not all people who make Nintendo YT videos, Pokémon is big enough to have its own websites and channels dedicated to it and you still have a lot of Pokémon fans on here for example
 
For me, what’s frustrating is the decreasing polish and creativity of each title (minus PLA and SV, which are steps in the right direction creatively, but the polish is at an all-time low). GF seems to rush the games out to reach the annual holiday season, which forces them to cut corners and release blatantly unfinished products like SV.

PLA was the best Pokémon release over the Switch generation, and even that has terrible graphics and an empty, ugly world that pales in comparison to the polish within games like Mario Odyssey or Zelda BOTW/TOTK.

I’m frustrated because I know they’re capable of more, so I speculate that the generally low quality of recent mainline games can be attributed to low dev time allotments and budgets.

This would never happen, but if they hypothetically put a bigger budget into a project that had 5-6 years of dev time, I know they could make something really special.
 
I've been more of a fan of the anime than the games. Would always watch the show on Cartoon Network. However, it would be nice to see Game Freak put more effort in their games. I did like Pokémon Legends Arceus. I'm hoping the sequel does well.
 
Game Freak rn
DJ_Khaled_Suffering_from_Success.jpg


Real talk though, some of these feelings get magnified because of how successful Pokémon games are relative to their technical level. Many people view it as an "injustice" that games built so poorly do so well when their favorites languish in comparison
 
I like Pokémon. I might not be able to get into the newer gens as much and got burnt out with Sword/Shield, but I started Legends Arceus recently and am enjoying myself so far.

What I don't like is Pokémon discourse, but that's another matter entirely.
 
I'm a big Nintendo fan but I don't dislike Pokemon. I kinda do dislike the shotcallers for when the games get released because they couldn't be fucked about quality. To me it just seems they care about money and quantity. Whether I'm wrong or not the perception is very loud.

I just want to see the games get the same quality as every other aspect of Pokemon; cards, toys, and shows.
 
I liked the series up until I was a teenager. Diamond and Pearl were the last mainline entries I played. I don't actively hate Pokémon, but my tastes have shifted away from turn-based RPGs and the happier, more colorful settings characteristic of the franchise, so there's not much point in me devoting any mental energy to thinking excessively about a series I don't play, let alone allowing strong negative emotions to boil up to the surface over it.

Approached from a totally different angle: I plainly don't think Pokémon games are worthwhile products that I'd feel comfortable spending my money on. I believe the highest-grossing media franchise on Earth should be held to a higher standard, and the games often look and perform shockingly poorly. If similarly shoddy releases were being pushed out to market in a series I enjoy, I'd likely have some pretty serious qualms about supporting them. I regret spending $60 on even just something like the Resident Evil 3 remake (which at least looks and performs within expectation), so a game that's super jank (or straight-up busted) in a few key ways would deter me pretty strongly. This isn't an indie release, or a mere 3-5 million seller, after all. It's Pokémon.
Pillydillsy said:
I think the issue people have with Pokémon is that it’s the highest grossing series in the world, yet seems to be behind far less successful peers in just about every category. Obviously there is much more to a games development then money, and judging by what little we know about what’s going on at gamefreak it seems like they have a metric shit ton of problems internally, but it’s still a bit insulting just how much better games like Xenoblade are in terms of quality despite being
1.) far longer
2.) made at a relatively similar rate to Pokemon (we got 2 mainline games, 2 massive expansions, and a remaster that itself has a major expansion during the switches life cycle)
3.) made by Monolith, who is also a support studio for most of the biggest Nintendo games this gen
4.) a significantly less successful series then Pokémon
Combine this frustration with the fact that we rarely get actual spin-offs anymore, pretty much just getting shitty mobile games, and yeah things are pretty bad
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You nailed it. Banana sheriff W.
 
I've never played a Pokemon game in my life. It just never enticed me or made me curious enough to try it.
 
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Wockio said:
Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are likewise othered, but I think that's understandable considering the anime aesthetic and the games themselves maybe not being the easiest to get into.
Click to expand...

I don't really agree with this point. These are two of Nintendo's largest and most successful RPG franchises and almost always received well. Obviouslly they aren't as big as the main Nintendo franchises, but I don't think the SSB "anime sword fighter" meme reflects the majority of Nintendo fans.
 
Raccoon said:
I mean it's not really a Nintendo game
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Yes it is?

On topic, 2 things:

1) not sure if OP has data to back up the premise of the thread. How do we know many Nintendo fans don't like Pokémon?

2) I personally have had very limited exposure aside from Blue and Gold, and spin offs. I've had very little interest since Gold, and the main line ones I've tried just seemed brain dead easy. However, Legends Arceus blew me away. I'm really looking forward to Z-A.
 
Without going into too much - I love Pokemon as a concept - the art, music, and core gameplay. What I don’t like is how the experiences I’ve had recently have felt rushed or cheap. Sword and Shield really left a bad taste in my mouth with how much they dropped the ball on the wild area, online feature, story and cutscenes - just about everything other than art style, music and core Pokemon gameplay as I mentioned above.

So yeah. If I ever come off as annoyed at the franchise, it’s because I think it’s being squandered. Technical issues aside, I heard Scarlet / Violet did some really good things, so I’m once again looking forward to whatever comes next, hopeful that they’ve improved their quality control.
 
FiniteInfinities said:
What I think this misses is how fast Gamefreak is pumping out these games. In the same time it takes Nintendo EPD to make a new 3D Mario or Zelda that sells 30 million units (~7 years, or once per generation), Gamefreak has made two generations of Pokemon games that collectively sell ~80 million. So while they are right that Pokemon's total audience has not grown in how you would expect on the Switch, it's made up for the fact by how absurdly consistent the current audience shows up for new releases. Like, it is crazy to me how close Sword/Shield and Scarlet/Violet sold and how all of the not-new-generation mainline games sold. So maybe if Pokemon became a once-per-generation franchise so quality could increase, it might be more reasonable to expect them to sell 40-50 million copies and have that crazy explosive 'Switch-effect' growth. So in essence TPC has traded having a broader audience that shows up once per generation for a narrower audience that will show up every year. 40-50 million once per generation vs. 15-25 million every year.

Sword/Shield = ~26 million
Scarlet/Violet = ~25 million
Let's Go = ~15 million
BDSP = ~15 million
PLA = ~15 million
Click to expand...
But these games could have sold so much more if they had been higher quality, so maybe the longer development would be made up for with significantly increased growth
 
I mean, being a fan of Mario and Zelda doesn't automatically convert to fandom of other games that have nothing to do with Mario or Zelda. Nintendo, as a whole, has a development philosophy centered around gameplay first, high levels of polish, and "it's ready when it's ready." Whatever else Pokemon might be, those things are not present in the franchise. They are Nintendo games if you grew up with them, but they don't feel like Nintendo games in spirit, to me.

For many of us - and this is a kind of bigotry, I'm not defending it - Pokemon was the little kid franchise when we were teenagers. Pokemon was the annoying kid in the bookstore trying to play their silly card game, while I played my sophisticated one (Magic The Gathering) on the table next to it.

I would love to like Pokemon, and I think the backlash against it is mostly about "my kiddie stuff is cool but your kiddie stuff sucks" - but it does feel like the "you'll eat your mass produced gruel and like it" side of Nintendo.
 
I don't think most Nintendo fans dislike Pokémon but it's has a large enough audience that even if it's only 1% that vehemently dislike it, it turns out to be a fairy decently sized group.


On another note, it's interesting to me when people talk about it lacking in creativity especially in the switch era which is the most diverse (regardless of how you feel about the quality of the games) the games have ever been. The original Pokemon games were one of the first games to find something people wanted to use the link cable for, the hoenn games had its fair share of creatively inspired moments with it's braille puzzles, the original sinnoh games had it interesting mini games and the underground etc.
 
I like Pokémon, but you're more likely to see me complaining about the franchise than praising it. And that's due to the simple fact that, lately, the franchise has deserved more of the former than the latter.

Like it's been mentioned, it's one of gaming's highest grossing franchises, but you don't see that money being put into the game's themselves. They are just stagnant. Legends was the exception, and even that one could've been much more than the already great game that it was.

And I think that's the whole point, at least for me: I don't complain about Pokémon because I hate it. Heck, I've played every generation, I've been here since the start, I still remember the thrill I felt as a six-year old when I caught my first Pokemon: a Weedle. I complain because I like the franchise and I feel it could be so much more than it is nowadays.
 
Growing up, Pokemon was easily my favorite series, no question; literal hundreds of hours poured into each installment even as recently as Sun/Moon. The games now just ... aren't very good imo. On the whole, I'd say they're outright bad. Fundamentally it feels like the problem is they still think they can make HD games on a handheld schedule and as a result the Switch RPG entries just feel so half-formed and coming-apart-at-the-seams. It's disappointing because I think there's been kernels of good ideas introduced in things like Legends Arceus but it's always undercut by this unignorable "everything else about this just bums me out" miasma that makes it really hard to appreciate the occasional stumble vaguely towards the right direction

And it's frustrating because the games make such stupid money that there's really no incentive to change what "isn't broken" from a corporate standpoint, so what's left besides getting some potshots in here and there while I wait for TPC to maybe someday decouple the RPGs from the overall "Pokemon machine" so that they don't release half-backed and barely functional. There's a certain level of polish, quality, and creativity that I expect from just about any other Nintendo-published game that I've just about given up on seeing in any of the mainline Pokemon games, and that's just a huge bummer
 
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Do Nintendo fans HATE Pokemon?

I feel its more a disappointment on where it's been and has been going. Legends Arceus is a huge step in the right direction, its just not at full potential yet, and its not made any easier when Game Freak keep taking out good ideas in older Pokemon games, and never bringing em back...well except Megas, lets hope they become a mainstay from now on. That is arguably the last big mechanic that Game Freak has implemented that isn't divisive atm (I think it was when XY launched tho)
 
Pillydillsy said:
But these games could have sold so much more if they had been higher quality, so maybe the longer development would be made up for with significantly increased growth
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It's hard to even believe that it's true that if they released the games in a better state they'd sell significantly more. I think PLA is generally considered to be the best Pokemon in the Switch era, yet it sold the worst (admittedly only by a small margin, but still).

But yeah hopefully they can find a better sweet spot to balance development time and units sold. I'm not a TPC bean counter though, so who knows, maybe this is that sweet spot.
 
Raccoon said:
it's actually made by a company called GameFreak
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True but Nintendo is still involved in the design of the games. Miyamoto's influence on the series is still felt today with the paired version of games so idk it may not be developed internally by EPD but it follows design principles EPD games follow.

Fun fact: Scarlet and Violet didn't have a game level producer from Game Freak, only Nintendo and The Pokemon Company.
 
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