Discussion What do you think is the future of Platinum Games?

[ohlawd]

they should be at the top of the world

Bayonetta 1
Vanquish
Metal Gear Rising
The Wonderful 101
Bayonetta 2
Nier Automata
Astral Chain
Bayonetta 3
Bayonetta Origins

that's a great 14 year run. how the general community let action games be taken over by Souls and DMC5 I will never understand

 

[Shinespark]

Maybe you should check his youtube videos if you haven't already. It might change your perspective towards him idk.

For clarification, I have seen video conversations with him that make him seem like an interesting character. There's plenty of execs with a poor work history that are affable and that you can understand why they made certain decisions.

But my perspective of Kamiya the director wouldn't change if I shared a drink with him. They're based on his actions as a director. It's the combination of Platinum's struggles and his stated belief in antiquated labor practices (which are bad for workers and likely key factors in his inconsistent development history). You can be both a funny guy and a terrible manager.

 

[Lugia667]

also I dunno if it's fair to say Bayonetta Origins bombed considering it was probably gonna be a niche game from from the start

 

[Forks]

It's clearly time to whip up a Vanquish 2

 

[TreIII]

Presumably, they could have started with smaller/newer games rather than a port of a game that bombed.

And a new game would have similarly carried risks, such as being an unknown that people might have completely passed over for any number of possible reasons.

Or to put it bluntly: The W101 kickstarter ended up being 4388% funded over its initial goal, and that was entirely thanks to the niche fans of that game. There's no guarantee a new game would have done similarly in a kickstarter-backed situation.

 

[Hailinel]

And a new game would have similarly carried risks, such as being an unknown that people might have completely passed over for any number of possible reasons.

Or to put it bluntly: The W101 kickstarter ended up being 4388% funded over its initial goal, and that was entirely thanks to the niche fans of that game. There's no guarantee a new game would have done similarly in a kickstarter-backed situation.

That's another issue. They ran a Kickstarter to publish the game on multiple platforms and while that funding goal may have been shattered, it didn't actually do anything to help the game sell beyond the very, very small audience of W101 fans.

If Platinum had tried self-publishing a game that wasn't already a divisive flop as their first big self-publishing effort, maybe they would have done better even if a Kickstarter might not have set the world on fire.

 

[Koti]

For clarification, I have seen video conversations with him that make him seem like an interesting character. There's plenty of execs with a poor work history that are affable and that you can understand why they made certain decisions.

But my perspective of Kamiya the director wouldn't change if I shared a drink with him. They're based on his actions as a director. It's the combination of Platinum's struggles and his stated belief in antiquated labor practices (which are bad for workers and likely key factors in his inconsistent development history). You can be both a funny guy and a terrible manager.

Fair enough

 

[TreIII]

That's another issue. They ran a Kickstarter to publish the game on multiple platforms and while that funding goal may have been shattered, it didn't actually do anything to help the game sell beyond the very, very small audience of W101 fans.

If Platinum had tried self-publishing a game that wasn't already a divisive flop as their first big self-publishing effort, maybe they would have done better even if a Kickstarter might not have set the world on fire.

And perhaps that could have happened, another time, another place. I just can't say I blame P* for going the "sure thing" over a maybe.

For a port that was definitely aimed at making as much money on the frontend, off the back of a hardcore niche as much as possible (hence the Kickstarter), I would say they probably ended up being well within their expectations.

 

[Ricimer]

didn't say they weren't, but stuff like wonderful 101 remaster and sol cresta and all the april fools stuff and platinum 4 tomfoolery ultimately went nowhere and in hindsight seems like a waste of time for the studio. on top of that, he started another passion project for himself (project gg) at the studio and has now left and the fate of that game is unknown at this point too.

True, but I think they're worse off without an exceptional game developer like Kamiya.

Seems like Kamiya got in a battle for the direction of Platinum and lost. Around the Platinum 4 days they seemed set on maintaining their identity as a passion-project studio while becoming independent. Seems like corporate won.

 

[TreIII]

True, but I think they're worse off without an exceptional game developer like Kamiya.

Seems like Kamiya got in a battle for the direction of Platinum and lost. Around the Platinum 4 days they seemed set on maintaining their identity as a passion-project studio while becoming independent. Seems like corporate won.

Perhaps that, and much like his mentor, Mikami, I don't think he was ever really happy being so far removed from actual game development as vice-president.

 

[ILikeFeet]

True, but I think they're worse off without an exceptional game developer like Kamiya.

Seems like Kamiya got in a battle for the direction of Platinum and lost. Around the Platinum 4 days they seemed set on maintaining their identity as a passion-project studio while becoming independent. Seems like corporate won.

at some point, you gotta keep the lights on. and if you're a passion project studio, you don't want to keep doing contract work forever and you probably want to be the master of your destiny. doing new IPs that you won't own doesn't give you that. so they gotta make money somehow to fund all this

 

[franzen23]

I think a fate similar to Monolith is one of the few paths of survival for the studio - mainly a support studio for Nintendo while still developing their own projects.
They need a win soon though

 

[grobla123]

I'd probably make copy the witch time Bayonetta controls and paste them on more random IPs they can get the best deals on honestly, the core gameplay still works and I think good word of mouth on future title like TMNT and Transformers could be built over time.

Given how washed Konami is they might be able to get a good split on another MGR, but they also might just be weird to work with and who knows if they even have any attachment to a project from that long ago. Given its rebirth in pop culture, it would probably be an exciting get.

I wouldn't continue with Wonderful 101/Astral chain as the sales just aren't there. (I do get the feeling they will try an Astral chain 2 anyway though).

I don't know if they are even working on a Nier thing with Squeenix, I'd be they probably aren't, which is a shame. But given the relative success in general and then again on Switch, it could be something that encourages another look.

I don't know that a Viola/Bayonetta 4 in the vein of 3 will have as much attention as 3 did coming out of 2 (but I could be off base, 3 on switch will almost certainly outsell 2 on Wii U so that probably has some momentum).
But I would expect to see some form of Bayonetta in the future because the character has some following also she's in Smash, so you know, I think Nintendo would probably work with another. I wouldn't be shocked to see a major patch/port/resell of 3 in a more stable state on Switch 2.

 

[Lugia667]

I'd probably make copy the witch time Bayonetta controls and paste them on more random IPs they can get the best deals on honestly, the core gameplay still works and I think good word of mouth on future title like TMNT and Transformers could be built over time.

Given how washed Konami is they might be able to get a good split on another MGR, but they also might just be weird to work with and who knows if they even have any attachment to a project from that long ago. Given its rebirth in pop culture, it would probably be an exciting get.

I wouldn't continue with Wonderful 101/Astral chain as the sales just aren't there. (I do get the feeling they will try an Astral chain 2 anyway though).

I don't know if they are even working on a Nier thing with Squeenix, I'd be they probably aren't, which is a shame. But given the relative success in general and then again on Switch, it could be something that encourages another look.

I don't know that a Viola/Bayonetta 4 in the vein of 3 will have as much attention as 3 did coming out of 2 (but I could be off base, 3 on switch will almost certainly outsell 2 on Wii U so that probably has some momentum).
But I would expect to see some form of Bayonetta in the future because the character has some following also she's in Smash, so you know, I think Nintendo would probably work with another. I wouldn't be shocked to see a major patch/port/resell of 3 in a more stable state on Switch 2.

Nintendo still sees potential in Astral Chain as they bought the rights to it. Also it's director hasn't had a project revealed in quite some time

 

[Marce-chan]

I'm pretty sure we'll have an Astral Chain sequel early on the Switch 2's life, then two years after that we get Bayonetta 4, and maybe another collab with Nintendo.

I think they'll also have a Nier Automata sequel coming for Square Enix.

I don't think they'll continue to pursue self-publishing, but will do fine and make more projects funded by Nintendo or Square.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Given how washed Konami is they might be able to get a good split on another MGR

if by washed, you mean washed with cash. they been more successful since dropping Kojima in a long-ass time. but I guess that means they could throw a couple of pennies Platinum's way for some parlor tricks

 

[AngryAlchemist]

They'll probably continue to get worse. In the short term, I don't really see how their pipeline recovers from their self publishing failing, since their only two consistent contractors are Square Enix and Nintendo, and Square is probably trying to make Nier internal, so they'll probably just be a support studio at best for their future projects. Nintendo will probably contract an Astral Chain 2 and a Bayonetta 4 but that's probably all the exciting stuff you're getting out of Platinum in the near future.

Their projects will also probably start to evolve more and more into the action RPG route which eh. Eh. It's been somewhat successful for them from a business perspective and they're certainly good games, but man, I'll never get over how much people stretch Automata's combat as "good" because "Platinum made it". Honestly one of the most surprising things about XVI was that the Platinum sections didn't even control well, and they usually do those scripted segments really well. I enjoyed Astral Chain too, but it was still a step down from a lot of their previous works. So the best possible outcome is getting sequels to games that were good but a bit middling .....

Longterm, I'm not sure. Not going to lie, it isn't looking good. But Platinum also seems like one of those studios you would think is out until they pull themselves back in.

 

[Dekuman]

I hope Nintendo puts some money into PG to secure them from a buyout and just keep them as a 2nd party partner for specific games and as a 3rd party development partner if say SE is involved with a project. Just to have one more dev house with Nintendo expertise is i think still important to Nintendo.

 

[majimazio]

Perhaps the partnership with Nintendo will continue and I hope they will make Astral Chain 2 or a new IP on Switch 2.
Bayonetta 4 will probably never be made. Bayonetta 3 and Origins sold less than niche IPs like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade (Bayo3 has been in development for a long time and probably cost more than XC3 and Engage), and with Kamiya leaving Platinum, I think the IP is dead.

 

[correojon]

And after Wonderful 101 bombed hard on Wii U, Platinum tried to self-publish a multiplatform version that bombed even harder. I imagine the decision to try self-publishing it likely came from a push by Kamiya.

This is something I'll never understand. TW101 is great, but it has terrible shortcomings that will forever make it an extremely niche game and outright aggressive against casual gamers...but they decided to just ignore everything and release it without any improvements. I like the crazyness that Kamiya brings to his games, but I think Platinum would've done much better if they had put someone to keep him in check.

 

[Razgriz]

Bankruptcy. Sounds harsh, but their current CEO is the one responsible for Babylon's Fall and from his comments even after Babylon's Fall became a high-profile live service failure, he's still wanting to push the company to go all-in on live services.

PG has all the skills for spectacle fighting perfection and Astral Chain showed that you don't need Hideki Kamiya at the helm for it to work (he to my understanding barely had involvement with the actual development besides signing off on the pitch). What they don't have the skills for are live services and that'll steer the company right into the abyss as long as they'll keep trying to go in that direction.

 

[Luneth]

I think Platinum will be OK. They can make critically successful (if not always financially) 3D video games and both Nintendo and Square will likely keep contracting them for this, that or the other support work if their bigger projects don’t work out. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Astral Chain 2 with Nintendo publishing.

Well, Astral Chain is a Nintendo's IP, so they would fully produce the game. And I hope they will.

 

[Pawfuilly]

Are they even working on anything right now? Doesn't seem like they have much of a future to me, but who knows, with how often they work with Nintendo they could be making something for the Super Switch's launch.

 

[Silky]

More of the same. Theyve fostered some great, young talent over there with Astral Chain and Bayonetta Zero. It'll be fine.

 

[Angel Whispers]

Perhaps the partnership with Nintendo will continue and I hope they will make Astral Chain 2 or a new IP on Switch 2.
Bayonetta 4 will probably never be made. Bayonetta 3 and Origins sold less than niche IPs like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade (Bayo3 has been in development for a long time and probably cost more than XC3 and Engage), and with Kamiya leaving Platinum, I think the IP is dead.

We don’t actually know the length of time for development, as nobody would talk about the game until Nintendo was ready to show it. Sometimes they’ll sit on a finished project because of their schedule, logistics and whatever else. One can also never underestimate the impact of an ongoing pandemic on development. What IS true, however, is that Bayonetta 3 was the fastest-selling entry to a million copies, and it had to deal with failed boycotts and lies pre-release. It also won Best Action Game at The Game Awards, so, the momentum with this IP is actually stronger than some are suggesting here. Bayonetta 4 will surely happen. She was also the People’s Choice in Smash. It’ll never not be wild to me that some want to doom this studio, or declare Bayonetta “dead”, I mean, Devil May Cry didn’t die with Clover Studios. It’s not so unthinkable that somebody else could take the helm. Or Kamiya could work on a future Bayonetta sequel with his own studio, independent of PlatinumGames. Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if Nintendo had been on the phone to him at some point after his departure.

 

[Aether]

We don’t actually know the length of time for development, as nobody would talk about the game until Nintendo was ready to show it. Sometimes they’ll sit on a finished project because of their schedule, logistics and whatever else. One can also never underestimate the impact of an ongoing pandemic on development. What IS true, however, is that Bayonetta 3 was the fastest-selling entry to a million copies, and it had to deal with failed boycotts and lies pre-release. It also won Best Action Game at The Game Awards, so, the momentum with this IP is actually stronger than some are suggesting here. Bayonetta 4 will surely happen. She was also the People’s Choice in Smash. It’ll never not be wild to me that some want to doom this studio, or declare Bayonetta “dead”, I mean, Devil May Cry didn’t die with Clover Studios. It’s not so unthinkable that somebody else could take the helm. Or Kamiya could work on a future Bayonetta sequel with his own studio, independent of PlatinumGames. Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if Nintendo had been on the phone to him at some point after his departure.

First one a financial failure, second one was on the Wii U. 3 selling the fastest to 1M means nothing in that context, not selling as something on a platform the tenth in adoption would be more then a fail.

It's not dead, but 3 should have been the break out success, and now it's time to re-evaluate.
I don't think they Wil drop it. But it for sure


Oh, and people's choice?
It as the "feasible winner", the winner was Dora, and there's a chance that development started before the poll, assuming she'll be high, and mostly using the poll as a pool for ultimate.
And with nintendos position back then she makes more sense then something like doom guy. Do the same poll around the animal crossing / doom release, the meme would have pushed doom guy to the top, since doom 2016 was available on switch.

 

[Dekuman]

I think Bayonetta is a prestige game for Nintendo to get a specific demographic playing on their console.

If Nintendo is concerned about ROI they could always allow the games to be on PC but I think they judged getting power users who like Bayonetta to buy their console is worth the investment.