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News Square Enix shifting to “aggressively pursue” multiplatform strategy

with their back catalogue, it's a question of how they pace things out. for launch, Visions of Mana come to mind. then Final Fantasy 16 within 3 months, and then Final Fantasy 7R 1+2 within 9 months? Kingdom Hearts complete series somewhere inbetween those?

SE just has a lot of shit waiting
 
Dear Nintendo, please forbid Square Enix from releasing any games on the Switch succ. They need to pay for what they did 30 years ago. /s
 


-FF16 sales fell short of expectations. Initial momentum was in line with expectations, but the games failed to reach FY goal as its momentum slowed. No updates from sales number last announced at 3 million
-FF7 Rebirth sales fell short of expectations. Initial momentum didn't reach an internal target. No sales number to share
-Foamstars fell short of expectations. Initial momentum didn't reach an internal target. No sales number to share
-Remains confident FF16 can achieve its goal over the original 18-month sales plan. Also, sales of Rebirth and Foamstars aren't necessarily bad.
-Reorganized develoment team into five console teams, one smartphone game team
-Has been relied too much on an individual's creativity. Will promote sharing game making how-how among teams and will seek best balance of individual creativity and organizational discipline
-DQ12 remains under development.

Investors react:
-sell shares heavily, stocks fell to the day's trading limit
-concerns are pipelines have become too empty, no big titles that can lift up the company's top line over the next couple of years
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Not sharing a number on Rebirth sounds bad to me. I really hope Square had some sort of sales expectation in their exclusivity agreement with Sony so they can escape this PS5 death spiral.
 
No updated sales numbers (and none for Rebirth) says it all, really. They have no one to blame but themselves.
 
Bonejack said:
Though, i do wonder what this means for the third FF7 remake game, if they still set on making it.

Does Sony have contracts already guaranteeing that one exclusive too? Or would those be made further on when the game is in a advanced dev state?
Or do both parties have bail-out possibilities?

Sony might not see the need, as Rebirth didn't move as much as they likely hoped for, and imo definitely didn't move console sales.
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during the big insomniac leaks, it was revealed if any of the Marvel games sold under a certain amount Disney has the right to end the exclusivity deal, it's possible the same could be said for the FF7R trilogy
 
JorgenRaft said:
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If they're not releasing even initial sales figures for Rebirth, then yeah, it's bad.

It does make me wonder though... Outside of the original game itself (and the first Remake)- what were the sales like for the rest of the FF7 stuff? Dirge of Cerberus I can imagine being a Bomba. It could just be that FF7 simply isn't a brand that can support this sort of endless franchising.
 
JazzPotatoes said:
If they're not releasing even initial sales figures for Rebirth, then yeah, it's bad.

It does make me wonder though... Outside of the original game itself (and the first Remake)- what were the sales like for the rest of the FF7 stuff? Dirge of Cerberus I can imagine being a Bomba. It could just be that FF7 simply isn't a brand that can support this sort of endless franchising.
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I believe Crisis Core was a success and one of the reasons to get a PSP at the time.

I think, like many IPs, FFVII COULD have been more franchisable but not how they've done it. I think splitting the game into three definitely backfired in terms of growing its audience.
 
personally, i think a major reason Rebirth is underperforming and no one is talking about is that you can only go back to the FF7 well so many times before people get bored of that world and it's characters
 
Lozjam said:
What’s even crazier, is that if FF7 is really selling only about half of the first game launch aligned, then it seems like even a really niche series like Fire Emblem, Kirby, or Pikmin 4, or like, Paper Mario is doing better than a mainline entry of Final Fantasy…… Fire Emblem and Paper Mario used to be the ”please don’t leave us JRPG fans, we promise we have games even though we don’t get final fantasy anymore” games. That’s why even a low seller like Fire Emblem kept getting greenlit Before it turned into a hit. Wow how the tables have turned.
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I wouldn't call Paper Mario or Kirby really niche? haven't you seen the switch ones
 
Imagine, in times where old running series find massive success and growth by redefining their gameplay but still keeping to the original ideas and systems, and you have to report that not only the new mainline game of one of your oldest and biggest series, but also the remake people have been hyping about and asking for, end up missing expectations.

Of course, they could've had jokingly high ones, though with actual numbers (if available) in mind, that shouldn't be the case here.

I think, next to not locking your games to one platform for whatever reasons, they need to go back to what FF actually is and created it's fanbase for.
They need to go easy on changing up everything from ground, and maybe should start with a more "traditional" base, and do changes upon that without throwing the core loop and idea out.

You wanna make a DMC-like Action-RPG with the focus on action, and just a liiiiiittle RPG? Do that in spinoffs. This is literally what a spinoff is for.

And for the love of god, keep your producers under control. At least those who have FF and KH under their care.
 
Why start with "traditional" when they can just follow up the best selling Final Fantasy of modern times?

benefit_dlc.0.jpg
 
I will say, the venom and absolute denial I'm seeing from some sections of the SE fambase online is a real trip.

People are convincing themselves that XVI and Rebirth are selling great, that FF is still the most popular JRPG franchise, and that anything to the contrary is a media conspiracy trying to downplay Square Enix' successes.

Like, even if you like the games, it's ok to just look at the facts and admit they're not selling great. Plenty of my favourite games sold terribly
 
JazzPotatoes said:
I will say, the venom and absolute denial I'm seeing from some sections of the SE fambase online is a real trip.

People are convincing themselves that XVI and Rebirth are selling great, that FF is still the most popular JRPG franchise, and that anything to the contrary is a media conspiracy trying to downplay Square Enix' successes.

Like, even if you like the games, it's ok to just look at the facts and admit they're not selling great. Plenty of my favourite games stood terribly
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It's baffling, even if for example FF XVI did achieve initial targets and that it might hit the 18 months plan with the PC version. We're talking about a huge game selling around 3 million.

Sure, that's a good number*.
* -> The problem it paints is a complete failure to grow the series. Even if it would've hit all expecations so far.

In times where Zelda blows up to selling some 10 million first week, or other series like GoW doing numbers too, this can't be a state where SQEX is comfortable with.
 
Bonejack said:
It's baffling, even if for example FF XVI did achieve initial targets and that it might hit the 18 months plan with the PC version. We're talking about a huge game selling around 3 million.

Sure, that's a good number*.
* -> The problem it paints is a complete failure to grow the series. Even if it would've hit all expecations so far.

In times where Zelda blows up to selling some 10 million first week, or other series like GoW doing numbers too, this can't be a state where SQEX is comfortable with.
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Exactly.

I don't think it's a healthy position for the industry to be in that new game have to sell gazillions to make a profit, but the fact is that if you're going to release AAA super games that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, then unfortunately that's how it works.

Rather than trying to be clever doing Rebuild Of FF7 or making a Devil May Cry version of Final Fantasy, Square need to be looking at what the realities are for making appealing games that sell to a wider audience and give them the sale numbers they're looking for. It's becoming clear that a lot of the Square nonsense they're known for is rapidly running out of road.
 
JazzPotatoes said:
People are convincing themselves that XVI and Rebirth are selling great, that FF is still the most popular JRPG franchise, and that anything to the contrary is a media conspiracy trying to downplay Square Enix' successes.
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Persona is the new king - excluding pokemon, weird times...
 
SRB2KaiZ said:
I wouldn't call Paper Mario or Kirby really niche? haven't you seen the switch ones
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Paper Mario used to be the definition of niche.

To put this in perspective: Paper Mario and the Thousand Year door released on a cube with very little JRPGs. It sold alright. About 2 million units. That was very low in the console generation absolutely dominated by JRPGs. Randomly throw a dart at any high profile PS2 game, and I guarantee that that PS2 game would sell leagues better.

Kirby games are historically not great sellers too. Besides the original, the best selling game pre switch was Squeak Squad with 2.27 million units. They always reliably sold of course, which is why they were still made, but Kirby was hardly a sales juggernaught, HAL could just make a lot of games pretty cheaply

On the PS2, Final Fantasy X sold a massive 8 million and it was a huge series in the industry. One of the best selling of the time. Final Fantasy 7 also did 10 million and it took Nintendo's marketshare.

But now look at how everything has flipped.
Kirby is now sitting pretty at close to 8 million units while Final Fantasy is struggling to pass 3 million. Paper Mario, even a divisive game like Oragami King, seems to be easily outselling FF7 rebirth. These were games that had 1/4 of the sales previously, but now they have completely flipped. Nintendo properties are stronger than ever, Nintendo is hiring a whole army of developers now(and a brand new building), while Square is doing layoffs.

Now the whole situation is reversed. Nintendo used to really need Square, but now, it's square that desperately needs Nintendo.
 
-Has been relied too much on an individual's creativity. Will promote sharing game making how-how among teams and will seek best balance of individual creativity and organizational discipline
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...not sure how I feel about this....I mean I guess it's better for development but I feel like it risks homogenizing the games
 
Lugia667 said:
...not sure how I feel about this....I mean I guess it's better for development but I feel like it risks homogenizing the games
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Their producers can still have a lot of freedom, this only means that they can't "reign" freely like some of them used to be able to.

You don't want your people to reach Kojima at Konami levels.
 
Bonejack said:
Their producers can still have a lot of freedom, this only means that they can't "reign" freely like some of them used to be able to.

You don't want your people to reach Kojima at Konami levels.
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Has this ever been a problem in Square Enix? The closest example I can think of is Nomura, but his games sell well, are optimized and the only problem is storytelling.
 
ziggyrivers said:
Has this ever been a problem in Square Enix? The closest example I can think of is Nomura, but his games sell well, are optimized and the only problem is storytelling.
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Obviously, or else the new CEO wouldn't have made it a part of the restructuring. ^^

But in case of a (not that recent) example for SQEX itself: Remember how they wasted almost 10 years of resourced for Nomura's love-project Versus XIII, only to shit it up, refocus it into FF XIII, and trying to recover something by making it a trilogy where each game was worse than the one before?
 
Bonejack said:
Their producers can still have a lot of freedom, this only means that they can't "reign" freely like some of them used to be able to.

You don't want your people to reach Kojima at Konami levels.
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Not unless you want games like Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 3 coming out of your company… that is 👀
 
Brock Reiher said:
Not unless you want games like Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 3 coming out of your company… that is 👀
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Still waiting for that third MGS5 act. But hey, guess it's great that i can train my to horse take a dump on command while listening to 99 Red Balloons in the game.
 
Bonejack said:
Remember how they wasted almost 10 years of resourced for Nomura's love-project Versus XIII,
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I doubt it was Nomura’s fault his dev team was constantly being shifted to work help with Crystal Tools, FINAL FANTASY XIII and FFXIV. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have given him FFVII Remake as a consolation prize for ruining his first ever FF game
 
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Bonejack said:
Still waiting for that third MGS5 act. But hey, guess it's great that i can train my to horse take a dump on command while listening to 99 Red Balloons in the game.
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There’s no third act because Konami decided they didn’t want a Kojima anymore…
 
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I know Rebirth is critically acclaim.

But personally. The game isn’t very “interesting”. Like recommending it to someone and I would be positive most will drop it cause how slow it moves, plus the plot not being worth it. Plot stuff in the middle is meaningless in the long run too, but that was something in original FFVII to be fair. It feels like a game that those interested in FFVII will get into no problem. But those that aren’t interested will vary in reception.

But that’s probably doesn’t explain why folks aren’t even giving the game a chance. If I were to base it off marketing. One, I think it’s the combat. It’s not causal friendly at all. And there’s a lot of switching and whatnot that’s less appealing than FFXVI single character focus. i gifted the game to a friend who’s a major persona fan/jrpg fan in general. And he dropped the game cause he couldn’t figure out the combat. Not to mention the UI is worst in this game then Remake for some reason. Easy mode and can’t get past the Snake.

So it’s an all around an interesting situation with Rebirth.
 
Counterpoint: the combat in Rebirth is among the best the series has ever had in terms of flexibility, cinematic appeal, and all-around feel. Square would be foolish not to iterate on it.
 
I think the sales of Final Fantasy come under more scrutiny because of the legacy of course but it always seems like Square is changing things up to chase trends and find a bigger audience. Now that alone isn't a bad idea but the mechanics and tone between recent FF games can give you whiplash. People like action games so let's make one of those. People like Game of Thrones so let's make the story grim and dark. At times, it can feel like these changes don't feel earnest, even if the developers working on the games themselves believe it is.

Other RPG series in comparison, while of course hope to sell as much as possible, don't feel like they are being meticulously altered to meet that goal. Falcom games are as old school and story dense as they come. Persona is still turn based and has stuck to its calendar system. In Xenoblade, they came adding more layers to the story and more layers to the combat. Now all of that might limit the appeal of these series to whatever degree but you could never say the devs weren't making something specifically for the fans. Heck, Square's own Dragon Quest series is very much rooted in appealing to DQ fans.

Final Fantasy is in a weird spot where it's probably still the one of most popular JRPG series, but all of the changes haven't reached an audience big enough to justify all of the money spent making those changes.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Yeah, they're trash, but HSR also has world class turn-based combat systems.
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I mean the games are very well made and pull a large audience I'm not arguing that. Hoyoverse has a lot of talent, I just don't think that type of game can be considered in the category 'king of jrpgs'. I think they look incredible and I'm sure they play fine besides the predatory mechanics...

They're on my most wanted list for Switch 2 day 1 though, only because people would go crazy for the system if they could play all their gachas well on Nintendo hardware, plus I think they're making an Animal Crossing style game. The amount of money people spend is just so crazy. Makes me wonder how much nintendo makes from fortnite vbuck purchases...
 
eye0h said:
live service, gamble bait, free to play, not jrpgs
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It’s what the kids are playing. If you go online or to conventions all the fanart/discussion is around Mihoyo properties. This is traditionally the audience that FF appealed to: teenagers who were interested in fantasy worlds with dramatic characters. That the form is different to what historically was successful just shows yet another reason why Square is failing to capture the zeitgeist.

I also would strongly argue against these not being RPGs, particularly with Honkai.
 
Hmm, to make a little speculation here. Square Enix says FF XVI launch sales matched their lower expectations, but that its legs doesn't match their year 1 expectations.

So i think Square Enix predicted XVI would sell 3-5 million at launch, and 5-7 million year 1. Instead XVI is at 3-3,5 million sales as of now.

As for Rebirth, they say that Rebirth did not even manage to hit their lower end launch expectations unlike XVI. So they probably predicted 3-5 million launch sales for Rebirth instead its at 2 million.

Foamstars of course was a total bomb as well.
 
Regulus Tera said:
It’s what the kids are playing. If you go online or to conventions all the fanart/discussion is around Mihoyo properties. This is traditionally the audience that FF appealed to: teenagers who were interested in fantasy worlds with dramatic characters. That the form is different to what historically was successful just shows yet another reason why Square is failing to capture the zeitgeist.

I also would strongly argue against these not being RPGs, particularly with Honkai.
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They're not in the conversation for me at all. Too many factors that separate them from being comparable to a console jrpg. Live service is a completely different ball game. Also I said they aren't JRPGs not that they aren't RPG's. That was me kinda clarifying the specifications. I was talking about the King of 'traditional' jrpgs. Sure hoyo are probably the most successful at making anime-like games at this time but there are so many differences that it didn't even cross my mind to consider them in the same category of game. I'd put it closer to fortnite lol
 
eye0h said:
They're not in the conversation for me at all. Too many factors that separate them from being comparable to a console jrpg. Live service is a completely different ball game.
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Let me put it this way, why would a teenager who's into fantasy worlds and Japanese aesthetics play FFXVI or VII Rebirth, both 70 plus dollar experiences attached to consoles that cost hundres of dollars and have decades of baggage attached to them, particularly with the latter, when they can get something that is appealing to them for relatively free on their phone?
 
I believe the biggest problem with SquareEnix is how close minded they have become over the years. And all of these bad strategies come from the top people. I don't know how much investors should blame gaming directors for their output strategy, but the marketing and strategy team of Square is easily one of the worst in the whole industry.

You just cant release FF Rebirth, Octopath Traveller 2 and Star Ocean 2 and find yourself in a bad position. The marketing is 100% wrong. All games shoud come to as many platforms as possible in a predictable way just like Capcom does.

Man, KingdomHearts is on switch by stream only... how do you explain that? That's bonkers..
 
Notsowise said:
I believe the biggest problem with SquareEnix is how close minded they have become over the years. And all of these bad strategies come from the top people. I don't know how much investors should blame gaming directors for their output strategy, but the marketing and strategy team of Square is easily one of the worst in the whole industry.

You just cant release FF Rebirth, Octopath Traveller 2 and Star Ocean 2 and find yourself in a bad position. The marketing is 100% wrong. All games shoud come to as many platforms as possible in a predictable way just like Capcom does.

Man, KingdomHearts is on switch by stream only... how do you explain that? That's bonkers..
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Octopath Traveller 2 would have done better had Nintendo handled the marketing and have some sort of exclusivity like the first one did. They went for the multiplatform approach and it ended up being less profitable for them. The audience was on Switch first, so they should have trusted that and let Nintendo take care of it. Hopefully they do it for the next Team Asano project.

One thing to note of all this is that the size of the losses matter. That is, Rebirth is worse for Square than having 3-4 underperforming double As. Thus I strongly believe that the whole statement is particularly related to AAAs and that some smaller games would be exclusive (if there is another Dragon Quest Monsters or even Triangle Strategy 2).

Honestly, besides Team Asani and Dragon Quest, which were a lock for Switch 2, Square does not really have that many appealing titles to mel so it does not change that much. The only rumored game possibly in development I could be really intrigued about is FF IX remake.
 
Lozjam said:
Paper Mario used to be the definition of niche.

To put this in perspective: Paper Mario and the Thousand Year door released on a cube with very little JRPGs. It sold alright. About 2 million units. That was very low in the console generation absolutely dominated by JRPGs. Randomly throw a dart at any high profile PS2 game, and I guarantee that that PS2 game would sell leagues better.

Kirby games are historically not great sellers too. Besides the original, the best selling game pre switch was Squeak Squad with 2.27 million units. They always reliably sold of course, which is why they were still made, but Kirby was hardly a sales juggernaught, HAL could just make a lot of games pretty cheaply

On the PS2, Final Fantasy X sold a massive 8 million and it was a huge series in the industry. One of the best selling of the time. Final Fantasy 7 also did 10 million and it took Nintendo's marketshare.

But now look at how everything has flipped.
Kirby is now sitting pretty at close to 8 million units while Final Fantasy is struggling to pass 3 million. Paper Mario, even a divisive game like Oragami King, seems to be easily outselling FF7 rebirth. These were games that had 1/4 of the sales previously, but now they have completely flipped. Nintendo properties are stronger than ever, Nintendo is hiring a whole army of developers now(and a brand new building), while Square is doing layoffs.

Now the whole situation is reversed. Nintendo used to really need Square, but now, it's square that desperately needs Nintendo.
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a bit of misinformation but the best selling game pre-switch era is actually superstar ultra with 3 million units.

but if you really wanna be honest you could make that argument for almost every nintendo series because previously mario, pokemon, smash and animal crossing were the only 10 million sellers. even zelda only sold slightly higher then what kirby and paper mario were doing in the 2000s

even sonic which is more iconic then final fantasy usually sells over 1-4 million per game in the 2000s

then the switch released and suddenly you started seeing all these first party games with crazy sales slowly turning nintendo in to one of the richest companies in the world.
 
I feel like an underscored problem is that they are basically "The RPG company", it really limits their reach. Look at other publishers and how they are able to do a variety of genres, meanwhile all Square has is RPGs and their attempts to venture out of that space...haven't seen much success
 
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Regulus Tera said:
Let me put it this way, why would a teenager who's into fantasy worlds and Japanese aesthetics play FFXVI or VII Rebirth, both 70 plus dollar experiences attached to consoles that cost hundres of dollars and have decades of baggage attached to them, particularly with the latter, when they can get something that is appealing to them for relatively free on their phone?
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I understand that genshin is bigger, I just wasn’t talking about live service please leave me alone lmao. I made the parameters of my statement fairly clear.
 
SRB2KaiZ said:
a bit of misinformation but the best selling game pre-switch era is actually superstar ultra with 3 million units.

but if you really wanna be honest you could make that argument for almost every nintendo series because previously mario, pokemon, smash and animal crossing were the only 10 million sellers. even zelda only sold slightly higher then what kirby and paper mario were doing in the 2000s

even sonic which is more iconic then final fantasy usually sells over 1-4 million per game in the 2000s

then the switch released and suddenly you started seeing all these first party games with crazy sales slowly turning nintendo in to one of the richest companies in the world.
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thing is it's not just Nintendo. Capcom has managed to keep Resident Evil and Monster Hunter still going to this day
 
Lugia667 said:
thing is it's not just Nintendo. Capcom has managed to keep Resident Evil and Monster Hunter still going to this day
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Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Monster Hunter was a modest success to niche series until 2007 with Monster Hunter Freedom 2 on the PSP and then spent a decade as "very popular, but not that huge" until Monster Hunter World in 2018 blew up.
 
Tactician said:
Octopath Traveller 2 would have done better had Nintendo handled the marketing and have some sort of exclusivity like the first one did.
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There is nothing to substantiate this claim. If anything all adjacent data points us the opposite. TriSrat declined from Octopath 1 and LAL Remake in turn declined from TriStrat. OT2 outpaced both as current numebers have it. HD-2D had plainly lost its novelty and trying to win over new audiences was far from a dumb move from SE.
They went for the multiplatform approach and it ended up being less profitable for them.
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And this statement is even more faulty when it clearly forgets that Nintendo publishing the game in Europe and North America means Square Enix missing out on an even bigger part of the revenue and profit generated by the title.
Hopefully they do it for the next Team Asano project.
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I also find myself having to highlight this part as my tongue-in-cheek remark on "playing Asano on PS5" was shut down as presumptuous and unwarranted. I don't want to re-litigate old talking points (but I also don't enjoy subposting!) so @Bonejack here's yet another example. This isn't the only post arguing about SE switch exclusivity. Far from an obvious outcome for many apparently.

Also Tactician I don't think you'll see future Asano titles be console exclusives. Not anytime soon anyways. (Barring Bravely-something to be announced soon ultra bombing, if one wants to leave the door open.)
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Monster Hunter was a modest success to niche series until 2007 with Monster Hunter Freedom 2 on the PSP and then spent a decade as "very popular, but not that huge" until Monster Hunter World in 2018 blew up.
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Ironically I think Monster Hunter is what stole FF’s lunch, as far as Japan is concerned.
 
FFVII Remake Part III will probably have to go on every platform as a result of FFVII Remake Part II just flat out coming in below Square-Enix's expectations.

Keep the engine locked as is, modify as needed to get it running good enough on Switch 2. It's all they can really do, but if you're brining Part III it makes no sense to not have Part I + II too, so they're going to have to figure that out too, either they're going to have to make some kind of compilation "new" game or rebrand new special editions and push them as "new" games so they don't violate any existing contracts with Sony.

There is something ironic about Final Fantasy VII (the remakes) being the games that finally broke Square and brings them back in full to Nintendo platforms though.
 
instead of attempting to get out of their Sony contracts, Square Enix will simply release brand new titles on the Switch 2, Banal Fantasy 7: Make and Banal Fantasy 7: Birth, starring the moody ecoterrorist Claude Strunk
 
Apopheniac said:
instead of attempting to get out of their Sony contracts, Square Enix will simply release brand new titles on the Switch 2, Banal Fantasy 7: Make and Banal Fantasy 7: Birth, starring the moody ecoterrorist Claude Strunk
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Final Fantasy 7 Reemake: Switch Two Electric Bugaloo Edition w/1 throw in Super Mario mini-game as entirely new gameplay content.
 
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I don't know anything about Rebirth but I have seen too many people say good luck with a good running port on Switch 2. and this is after the recent specs leaks. what is so impenetrable about Rebirth
 
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