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Discussion "Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom will be the last significant Nintendo Switch game"

boodream said:
It's not about liking or disliking Pikmin, liking or disliking 2D, liking or disliking Mario, liking or disliking Sony or Nintendo. You're right, that's not the point. On the other hand, for a journalist to simply respond to something that directly denigrates a developer, that seems to me to be significant in terms of his perception and intentions. Not to conduct a sad and idiotic manhunt, but because it speaks to a state of mind in the industry.
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👏👏👏
 
boodream said:
It's not about liking or disliking Pikmin, liking or disliking 2D, liking or disliking Mario, liking or disliking Sony or Nintendo. You're right, that's not the point. On the other hand, for a journalist to simply respond to something that directly denigrates a developer, that seems to me to be significant in terms of his perception and intentions. Not to conduct a sad and idiotic manhunt, but because it speaks to a state of mind in the industry.
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You make some convincing points, but I'd like to point out one thing - you can actually argue the exact opposite. Before Mario Wonder was revealed, multiple industry analysts were saying the same exact thing Dring said (some even as far back as December 2022). Once Mario Wonder was revealed, they stopped saying it. To me, this is inductive of the fact that when the other insides or analysts got something wrong, they just either made poorly aged predictions based on gut feelings or had wrong insider info. It doesn't actually say that much in this specific scenario about judgment calls relating to downplaying Nintendo games in comparison to the overall industry, in fact it actually probably says more about Switch 2 speculation than anything.

That's why, to me, while I find your discussion great and refreshing, I don't think you can really separate the discussion from people being upset with Dring specifically. Because a lot of other analysts just made a prediction, and when they were proven wrong, they stopped saying it. I do think there's absolutely a point to be made about how Nintendo series are too often downplayed in terms of their relevance to the games industry if they aren't 3D Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc. But that's sort of an overall issue and - critically - it's something even enthusiast fans do. So it's a valid point, but I actually think other analysts didn't prove it this time around.
 
I think is not incorrect to say that a high value 2D game like Mario Wonder takes less production effort to be made rather than a 3D one, like Zelda or even Mario odyssey. That doesn't mean such game is less important for sure.
 
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I think it's too subjective to say. Zelda is and will certainly be the "biggest" release this year, but how you measure that "bigness" in relation to something like Mario Wonder or Prime 4, or whatever else is entirely subjective.

I also think people are jumping the gun a bit much assuming we already know the full extent of the switches life, all the releases it will see, and when exactly the next console will release.

Really it just feels like a journalist said something subjective, people overreacted and now both sides are digging their heels as far in as possible in a desperate attempt to prove their opinion right.
 
GamerJM said:
This wasn't true but imo it was truer than folks on here will admit. Wonder is obviously the final "major" exclusive, but I don't think anything else really counts on the level they were talking about and I doubt anything else will be announced that is. TotK is also the last game that requires as many development resources as it does, but that's like....extremely rare anyways.
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I’m almost positive we will be getting more mainline Pokemon titles from Gamefreak in 2024 and 2025 for the Switch.

TotK was also the largest production Nintendo has ever done by a large amount as was BotW previously and most Zelda’s in general are the biggest productions Nintendo releases. So I mean if our classification of major titles is 3D Zelda’s then yes it probably will be the last one on Switch.
 
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AngryAlchemist said:
I knew I'd get a comment like this. If you can't separate someone saying "wow it's ironic people liked a comment but missed the point of it, people should stop being mad at a silly journalist opinion" from people actively being tilted at Dring months later ... idk what to tell you. This thread wouldn't exist with the former take, it only exists because of the latter. It was a silly take from him but the Nintendo fandom (outside of here too) should move on.
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take your own advice then and stop posting in this thread
 
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Not only is Wonder a major title, I posit Peach is too. And frankly Prime 4 may very well end up that way (not that a journalist can predict the future).
 
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I mean, we know from Aonuma’s words that they spent 1 year polishing TotK.

From Miyamoto’s words, Pikmin 4 was “close to completion” in 2015 and then released in 2023, which meant it spent 8 years being polished.

If that isn’t significant, then I don’t know what is.
 
'Significant' is such a interpretive word in this context ha. If you're a huge Mario JRPG fan then Super Mario RPG/Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door are absolutely 'significant' releases, if you love 2D games Wonder is a significant release, Pikmin fans obviously found 4 to be a huge significant release... If they're going for the amount of time a game took to develop for whether its significant or not, nothing Nintendo's released/is going to release post TotK really feels that much lesser? Probably lower budget but budgets really shouldn't play into that term either. Wouldn't that mean everything after BotW and before TotK wasn't '''significant'''?

Not to mention we're still getting Metroid Prime 4
and hopefully an EPD Donkey Kong adventure
.
 
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KarmaDesires said:
We know that Mario Wonder is a heavy hitter, for the test on whether it passes Chris Drings particular, made-up definition of "heavy hitter" we'll have to wait till we can contrast its lauch with Spider-Man 2. Not to pile on him or anything but it will be interesting to keep tabs on this dispute.
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Is there a thread/poll for Spiderman 2 vs Mario Wonder (for their 2023 Q4) on Famiboards or Installbase?
If not, can someone make one please? 👀
 
Gartooth said:
- Last big boy game that can be both a big budget action game and sell huge and at the same time win GOTY at the Keighley's?

Sure, Zelda's the last one there if you want to be that specific but then again the number of games Nintendo releases each generation that can do that can only be counted on 1 hand.
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Unironically, I think this is true.

I believe Dring and the other journalists (because it wasn't Dring alone...) are operating under the Games Awards logic. 3D Mario and Zelda obviously "counts" as a high-profile release, and Metroid Prime has at least the prestige, but every other game is "for the family" or for Nintendo fans. We all know that as good as they might be, Mario Wonder and Pikmin 4 will never win The Games Awards. Animal Crossing didn't, and it was objectively the game of the year of the pandemic (that, or Among Us).

Same reason an animated movie will never win a best picture Oscar.
 
chocolate_supra said:
IIRC (and someone correct me if this is inaccurate) Dring is somehow involved with the company that puts on E3, so he might have an actual professional interest in trying to frame Nintendo pulling out as "because they have nothing to show" instead of "because they didn't like what E3 was putting together." Which I think was how the whole thing started, he didn't just randomly say "Nintendo has no games after Zelda," he said "Nintendo pulled out of E3 because they have no games after Zelda to show at the event." It may have been an attempt at damage control for ESA or something.
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ding ding ding

So, you know how Dring writes for GamesIndustry.biz? That's owned by ReedPop. During the time we're talking about, ReedPop was still working with the ESA for E3.

And yes, chronologically, this only started after Nintendo pulled out of E3. This never existed in isolation.
 
Look over there said:
ding ding ding

So, you know how Dring writes for GamesIndustry.biz? That's owned by ReedPop. During the time we're talking about, ReedPop was still working with the ESA for E3.

And yes, chronologically, this only started after Nintendo pulled out of E3. This never existed in isolation.
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Gooooootcha

So not the ESA, but the people who set up an E3 for them so bad that everyone bailed before it started 😅
 
Eclissi said:
Do you remember?


Now, after September Direct, can we say that that thesis was correct?

P. S. Certainly Mario Wonder is significant from a commercial point of view, but if we think about the production effort it is a medium-sized title.
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With Switch 2 next year, or was obvious. But, i would say it's the last significative EXCLUSIVE for Switch. 90/100 Metroid Prime 4 is a cross gen title.
 
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Eclissi said:
Do you remember?


Now, after September Direct, can we say that that thesis was correct?

P. S. Certainly Mario Wonder is significant from a commercial point of view, but if we think about the production effort it is a medium-sized title.
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I don't read anything in the claim about production effort, it talks about "significant", "big" and "huge", so by all those metrics they are wrong about Mario Wonder. And to assume small production effort for a game that looks like it went through many iterations of trying and adding gameplay ideas, with apparently the whole staff being asked to add ideas for levels in a huge central document, seems a bit reductive.
 
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Abitante said:
It'll be crossgen c'mon, let's stop coping. And I'm buying it on Switch 2.
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Not really sure what you are on about. I talked about significant titles still releasing on Switch, Metroid Prime 4 is one of those titles
I said it was going to release on Switch and sell at least a million copies on it, I never talked about Switch 2 - that's you.
 
Mbolibombo said:
Not really sure what you are on about. I talked about significant titles still releasing on Switch, Metroid Prime 4 is one of those titles
I said it was going to release on Switch and sell at least a million copies on it, I never talked about Switch 2 - that's you.
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I was joking it will be Switch 2 exclusive,
 
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Eddy said:
Is there a thread/poll for Spiderman 2 vs Mario Wonder (for their 2023 Q4) on Famiboards or Installbase?
If not, can someone make one please? 👀
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There definitely was one, probably started around the reveal of Wonder.

famiboards.com

The Massacre in October: Super Mario Bros. Wonder vs Spider-Man 2

So come October there's going to be a bunch of games coming out. Assassin's Creed Mirage's coming, that game's gonna be real cool. Alan Wake 2 is coming, I think? That's wild. Wild that that's being made. Alone in the Dark is tentatively slated for that month, right? Man. Another one. Detective...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
I mean, no? Clearly that honor belongs now to Trombone Champ. I've never had so much fun tooting toots. My doctor is confounded, as are my co-workers. Thanks to the portability of the Switch I can even play it during my bathroom breaks. That's pretty significant.
 
MaitreWakou said:
Pretty sure it has been in production since Mario Maker 2 release in 2019, so that seems entirely wrong. Also fall into the "3D games are big boy games, 2D games are not" argument that is very silly.

I would also consider the Peach game rather significant. Not to mention Pikmin 4 which released after TOTK. Another Code is full on remake, won't even have to suffer the "is it a remaster or a remake" discussion that I absolutely hate.
And we even know of Metroid Prime 4. It doesn't matter if it's cross gen or not, it's a Switch game and it's still not released. And given how core of a game it is, no one will dare to call it "non significant" unlike Mario or Peach.
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Playing devils advocate, do we know how many developers are working on Wonder, or how many were in 2019?

This entire discussion hinges on there being no shared understanding of “significant.” I found Pikmin 4 ended up being a pretty signficant title. But it’s also pretty noteworthy that the last two Directs have gotten responses like “yeah this feels like end of life Switch content.” That statement isn’t too far removed from somebody saying that the content is less “significant.”
 
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