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Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

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The DK64 is an awful game is an opinion and you're welcome to it. Although Metacritic would disagree with a 90, even though Metacritic isn't the end all be all of delegating which games are quality or not. I also don't understand why a "cheesy" rap song is so offensive. It adds to the game's charm. DK is a goofy series that was never meant to be taken seriously.

I'm completely open to new ideas as long as it doesn't erase established mainstay characters like Jungle Beat did,
I didn't say that the rap song is offensive. I said it's cheesy. I also never said DK should be taken seriously.

That aside, my comment on DK64's quality was harsh. The game is an absolutely miserable completion experience but as far as the act of playing it is concerned is neither the best nor the worst of its era. I will note though that I don’t treat Metacritic averages (and particularly averages compiled from reviews written in the state that game reviews were generally in 25 years ago) as a measure of objective quality.
 
DK 64 is great lol. As flawed as collecting in DK 64 is, I didn't find it any more or less worse than collecting the Korok seeds in BotW or even the moons in Odyssey.
 
I don’t think any collectathon in the N64 era bothered me as much as Jet Force Gemini that required you to find every one of the mascot things to finish the game. As long as it’s optional to 100% it if you just want to see the ending, I always just kept on going as long as it was fun, the games were so expensive at the time that I likely didn’t have anything else to play anyway.
 
I didn't say that the rap song is offensive. I said it's cheesy. I also never said DK should be taken seriously.

That aside, my comment on DK64's quality was harsh. The game is an absolutely miserable completion experience but as far as the act of playing it is concerned is neither the best nor the worst of its era. I will note though that I don’t treat Metacritic averages (and particularly averages compiled from reviews written in the state that game reviews were generally in 25 years ago) as a measure of objective quality.
That's fair and sorry if I came across as harsh too :). I'm a very blunt person and that doesn't translate well via text a lot of times.

It's perfectly fine to dislike games. There's some very popular games that I don't like but it's not worth brining up bc of flame wars online. I'm not a hardcore completionist so after beating K. Rool it was hard for me to get motivated to 100% or whatever goofy percentage Rare used for 100% in that game lol

I'll always go to bat for DK64 though. I'm very forgiving of a game's shortcomings if the ambition, charm and world building is there and DK64 has that in spades.
 
DK64 isn't my favorite DK but definitely in my top 3. I don't think the next DK will be like DK64 even if it is 3D, but if they made a direct follow up to DK64 all it would take is a few tweaks to make it a goty tier game.
 
A lot of the issues with DK64 comes down to it being the first generation of 3D games. Camera controls and game design mechanics weren't exactly established back then. I love the PS1, but a lot of those games have ridiculous tank control methods that are hard to go back to as well.
 
I don’t think any collectathon in the N64 era bothered me as much as Jet Force Gemini that required you to find every one of the mascot things to finish the game. As long as it’s optional to 100% it if you just want to see the ending, I always just kept on going as long as it was fun, the games were so expensive at the time that I likely didn’t have anything else to play anyway.
Jet Force Gemini was pretty fun up until that point. Never been so disappointed in a game lol
 
Regarding the whole VV cancelled project, here's a few important details that I may have not shared.

First, this DK project was started after Skylanders Supercharged released on the Wii U. This version added both DK and Bowser as exclusive playable characters. This project is was what got the ball rolling on the cancelled DK game which was in development around 2015-2016. It was likely around sometime in 2016 or early 2017 where the game was cancelled and VV shifted focus on developing the Crash N. Sane Trilogy while EPD picked up the project in late 2017-2018 with a new team.

What's important to note is that the ONLY reason we're aware of this game's existence is because it was being developed by a Western studio and a project of this magnitude would inevitably leak. Some well known people in the industry even knew about the existence of this game in 2021, but didn't share this info out of fear of revealing their sources.

If we were in a timeline where EPD took DK in house around 2017-2018 with no cancelled VV game, then we'd be completely left in the dark regarding a DK game being in development since EPD is airtight with its leaks. We'd simply be speculating that a DK game is most likely in the works due to the marketing push of the theme park, the Mario movie, and stuff like Lego DK coming out. Also, consider that King K. Rool was the one of the very few Smash characters that didn't leak prior to his reveal, so that tells me that Nintendo is very good at keeping what's brewing for DK secret.

I watched the Nintendo Prime stream last night, and he mentioned a very interesting detail. He claims that some staff with a build of the cancelled game dubbed "Donkey Kong Freedom" showed him about 40 seconds of footage of the game in action. Obviously this game was in the prototyping stage, and was probably a pre-Alpha. He mentioned that the game was about as big as Breath of the Wild in scope. Since he mentioned that he's seen footage of it, that's another credible person who claims to have seen/heard about this game.

So I did some basic research on YouTube and it looks like there is a "Donkey Kong Freedom" fangame being worked on. What's weird is that there are videos dating back 7 months ago and in said videos, it shows Donkey Kong sliding on a vine in what appears to be banana peel shoes and Pauline in a jungle explorer outfit. I would love it if Nintendo Prime could come out and clarify if the footage he saw came from a different game or if the footage he saw was from this YouTube channel (though I know NP was banned off this forum several months ago and I don't know if he was unbanned).

 
So I did some basic research on YouTube and it looks like there is a "Donkey Kong Freedom" fangame being worked on. What's weird is that there are videos dating back 7 months ago and in said videos, it shows Donkey Kong sliding on a vine in what appears to be banana peel shoes and Pauline in a jungle explorer outfit. I would love it if Nintendo Prime could come out and clarify if the footage he saw came from a different game or if the footage he saw was from this YouTube channel (though I know NP was banned off this forum several months ago and I don't know if he was unbanned).


Did you watch his livestream? He literally said the 40 seconds video footage he was given exclusive access to was not this fan game.
 
So I did some basic research on YouTube and it looks like there is a "Donkey Kong Freedom" fangame being worked on. What's weird is that there are videos dating back 7 months ago and in said videos, it shows Donkey Kong sliding on a vine in what appears to be banana peel shoes and Pauline in a jungle explorer outfit. I would love it if Nintendo Prime could come out and clarify if the footage he saw came from a different game or if the footage he saw was from this YouTube channel (though I know NP was banned off this forum several months ago and I don't know if he was unbanned).


This is a from a DK fan that I know. He's known about this VV DK game for a couple of years, but kept it secret. He's been working on this game as a proof of concept using the Dreams game for a while just as a way to present what the game could've looked like for fans. It's just a mock up of the details of the game that were in development such as playable Pauline, banana shoes and the water supply being poisoned. It's just a cool way of preserving this game solely based on details, not actual design docs or anything like that
 
Do you guys think this EPD DK game, and the whole potential DK push in fact, would use the movie design? The fact the Miyamoto presented it and spoke to it being a bridge between current design and original one makes me think it might be the standard going forward.
 
Do you guys think this EPD DK game, and the whole potential DK push in fact, would use the movie design? The fact the Miyamoto presented it and spoke to it being a bridge between current design and original one makes me think it might be the standard going forward.
I personally think so since Miyamoto made such a big deal about it, was wearing a DK shirt and acknowledged the 40th anniversary of DK at that moment. It seemed to me like a tease of future things for DK. At the very least it was Miyamoto's way of saying, "Hey DK fans. We've got a lot planned for you, but this is all we can say now." A lot of DK fans disagree, but that's my take
 
Do you guys think this EPD DK game, and the whole potential DK push in fact, would use the movie design? The fact the Miyamoto presented it and spoke to it being a bridge between current design and original one makes me think it might be the standard going forward.
I have my doubts. They are still using the old design for the theme parks and the newest LEGO toy, after all. Like how movie Sonic hasn't been carried over, I think it'll be the same here.
 
Do you guys think this EPD DK game, and the whole potential DK push in fact, would use the movie design? The fact the Miyamoto presented it and spoke to it being a bridge between current design and original one makes me think it might be the standard going forward.
I think DK will look mostly like how he does in the games still, but with a few subtle changes here and there that reflect movie DKs design. Over time the design may lean more towards what the movie looks like, especially on merch.
 
Man that Nintendo Prime Podcast gave me life! Give me the spiraling island where I can high speed platform to my hearts content. Also give me mad aspirin Cranky again clowning on modern games and their modern fans.
 
Amazing! It's surreal to think that Nintendo Prime is publishing my thoughts. I've always been a fan :)

This was a great summary of this thread as well as adding what Mike Odyssey mentioned about how Mario, DK and Pokemon are going to be pushed as multimedia juggernauts in the future.

The only thing that was incorrect about the video was him mentioning that "DK was never a big IP outside of the arcade era". DK was the third best selling IP for Nintendo in the 1990s (after Mario and Pokemon) and was a major IP on the SNES, Game Boy, and N64:

Nintendo just fumbled the bag after the Rare buyout and DK hasn't been a major IP since DK64 bc there's been no momentum for the franchise since its switched development houses for so long. Hopefully that'll change in the future :)

I’m just super excited about this! The livestream was amazing, better than I would have ever imagined.

The fact Nintendo Prime was given exclusive access to 40 seconds video footage of Donkey Kong Freedom is just mind blowing.

This is a major W for all DK fans!


First off you’re all welcome. Once I had these details and started reaching out to folks it’s amazing what people will share. Sounds like everyone involved was extremely excited about this. Unfortunately I have no other details than what I shared plus what you guys shared here. I may never get more details either.

That being said, I’m glad people enjoyed it. Note on the time stamp for the podcast, it will be 10 minutes sooner whenever YouTube gets around to rerenderinf it to get rid of the 10 minute timer.

If there are more details let me know and I’ll follow the video up. We all want a new dk game.
 
I’m not at all confident that the movie design will be carrying over to anything else, seeing as Super Nintendo World and Lego DK will continue using the current game design, and those are going to be built to last. Some of the 2D DK artwork used in the SNW app happens to somewhat resemble the movie design, but I think that just comes down to it more resembling the classic design in general (same for how Yoshi has now reverted closer to the Super Mario World design in 2D artwork, but this is not reflected in-game).

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Feels like it still hasn't gotten any traction, honestly. A 3D, open-world, Nintendo/VV produced Donkey Kong game seems like a megaton announcement and I learned about it from a video that has less than 5k views.

The rumor that has me most excited is about the restructuring of EPD Tokyo and the possibility of them producing 2 3D platformers simultaneously
 
Why is the VV stuff getting such traction now? It's been discussed since last yr, no? Why the tardy response to that bit of info?
From what it looks like this thread started with the topic being the "Odyssey Team DK game" rumor from ~2021, and a couple weeks ago the Professor Chops user joined in to shed light on VVs DK game. Their post got shared on DK Vine, and we've been talking about VVs DK on and off for a while (on the dk vine forums), so it looks like it sort of caused a positive feedback loop and gained more and more traction until Nintendo Prime covered it on their podcast.
 
Why is the VV stuff getting such traction now? It's been discussed since last yr, no? Why the tardy response to that bit of info?
I think the people in the know knew about this game being developed and cancelled, but the general online gaming community didn't. I knew there was a Western studio that was making DK before it got cancelled but didn't know it was VV or any other details until this year.
 
Why is the VV stuff getting such traction now? It's been discussed since last yr, no? Why the tardy response to that bit of info?
We didn’t know the scope of the game. As KremlinKuthroat said, the only thing DKVine talked about in 2021 was that a western developer worked on a DK game for a short period of time. We didn’t know it was supposed to be a 3D Open World title
 
Why is the VV stuff getting such traction now? It's been discussed since last yr, no? Why the tardy response to that bit of info?
Yeah at least two journalists were aware of it since 2021 when ex-Vicarious Visions staff approached them. One of these journalists is known in the DK circle. But since they haven’t themselves spoken out publicly, it’s only fair to keep them anonymous and private.

But yes, Nintendo Prime did excellent job of summarising the whole story so far while also respecting the privacy of sources.
 
Same. It is frustrating that the open world DK of all games (that we know) was cancelled. Of course this is a rumor, but I believe it
…and it was outsourced as well, meaning Nintendo could‘ve focused on their games. I wish we could’ve been in a reality where this game and a Retro project would’ve been released at the beginning of the Switch’s life, and a new 3D Mario should also be around the corner. Still glad they’re trying to make DK a big EPD franchise though.
 
…and it was outsourced as well, meaning Nintendo could‘ve focused on their games. I wish we could’ve been in a reality where this game and a Retro project would’ve been released at the beginning of the Switch’s life, and a new 3D Mario should also be around the corner. Still glad they’re trying to make DK a big EPD franchise though.
From what I've heard, that cancelled Retro game was horrendous. Trust me. You should be glad they cancelled it lol. I don't wanna give away any details other than that though since I promised I wouldn't talk much about it in public but a couple people tipped me off about it. Retro kinda wasted 5 years unable to get anything off the ground until porting TF to Switch and MP Remastered.

And for those of you curious, it wasn't Star Fox Grand Prix lol
 
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From what I've heard, that cancelled Retro game was horrendous. Trust me. You should be glad they cancelled it lol. I don't wanna give away any details other than that though since I promised I wouldn't talk much about it in public but a couple people tipped me off about it. Retro kinda wasted 5 years unable to get anything off the ground until porting TF to Switch and MP Remastered.
Interesting, thank you for sharing the details.
 
The canceled Retro Studios New IP (2014-2018) was a very casual rhythm based game. It took heavy inspiration from Disney princess musicals such as Frozen. It was to appear at E3 2015 but Nintendo yanked it last minute and was largely unsatisfied with it

David Wise was scoring the game. He was very heavily involved. The 2015 rumors that David Wise was working with Nintendo were for the new Retro Studios IP

Many speculated that the robot hand blocked off by the statue on Reggie Fils-Aime's farewell card was from the new IP, it wasn't though. That robot was just the Regginator. A mere inside joke Regginator reference lol
 
The canceled Retro Studios New IP (2014-2018) was a very casual rhythm based game. It took heavy inspiration from Disney princess musicals such as Frozen. It was to appear at E3 2015 but Nintendo yanked it last minute and was largely unsatisfied with it

David Wise was scoring the game. He was very heavily involved. The 2015 rumors that David Wise was working with Nintendo were for the new Retro Studios IP

Many speculated that the robot hand blocked off by the statue on Reggie Fils-Aime's farewell card was from the new IP, it wasn't though. That robot was just the Regginator. A mere inside joke Regginator reference lol
Haha thanks. That's exactly what I heard. Didn't want to spill the beans so thanks for that :)
 
When I first about this rhythm game, it reminded me of this game.

Considering DK is well known for it's fantastic music, it would be kinda neat to see a DK musical RPG of some kind in the future.
 
it is baffling that retro has been given so many chances
It's pretty common in the game industry, so not really. AFAIK only one project that was cancelled was far in pre-production. It is just worse in Retro's case because they are making a big game so it's taking a while for their not-cancelled project to come out, they're highly publicized, and they have leaks.

That being said I gotta admit, while I wish Retro would make a new IP, a musical RPG sounds awful
 
Since Retro’s being discussed, I hope they are the ones that eventually port Returns to Switch as a remaster using the Tropical Freeze engine and with the bonus content from the 3DS
Were the 3DS levels actually good, or is it more like they should just include them to make it a definitive version? I either forgot, or didn't know till recently, that there was even 3DS exclusive levels.
 
Speaking as a member of staff instead of a DK fan here;

The earlier discussions about a potential Donkey Kong Speculation ST have not gone unnoticed, and I would personally be happy to facilitate such a thread if the DK community that have gathered in here want it. Seeing as this thread has remained active for weeks now, while similar one-off threads don't typically last quite as long, it appears warranted. This thread would be locked following the opening of the new ST, but i'll be sure to include a link to the past discussions in the shiny new OP.
 
It still hasn’t gained big coverage. Has Gamexplain said anything? Has any other big game media made an article? I didn’t see it on ResetEra either.
Cancelled games with no public assets will never net significant attention. And showing cancelled game assets run risks.
 
It still hasn’t gained big coverage. Has Gamexplain said anything? Has any other big game media made an article? I didn’t see it on ResetEra either.
Some on this thread earlier said they contacted Did you know gaming. If they are able to produce a video that covers DK Freedom without implicating any of the root sources that initially leaked it, there may be a video made in the distant future. It also may depend on the DK game that's in production being announced, as that unrevealed game is part of why DK Freedom got canned in the first place. All things considered the Nintendo Prime and Andres Restart coverage we got in the past few days are a great first step.
 
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