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Hardware We need a Switch successor pronto

Rooster

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If games weren't being held back for the next thing I'd be fine to carry on as is.

But they are, so yes. I want new thing too.
 
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edamame

Bob-omb
I'm not as sensitive to fps and resolution as most, so feel free to dismiss my opinion if you are. I personally don't need one pronto. There's still plenty of Switch games I haven't gotten around to yet. I already know there's going to be a successor, and it will get here when it gets here. I'd rather spend my time enjoying the Switch I already have now while it's still the current Nintendo system.

3DS was basically a more powerful DS that had extra features and was backwards compatible, yet while it eventually became a great system in its own right, it didn't have the same kind of magic that the DS had. Both systems and their libraries still feel distinct.

I'm not saying the next system is going to struggle out of the gate like the 3DS, it could very well be the opposite. But even with Switch backwards compatibility, it won't have the same feel of the Switch. It will be its own thing. Nintendo Switch is a unique flavor and I'm going to savor it while it's still being served.
 

Maxrunner

Octorok
The switch is basically guaranteed that it's going to sell more units this year than the ps4 ever did in any year during its lifetime. They absolutely can.

The Wii u's failure had very, very little to do with timing. Even if they'd gotten it out two years earlier and nothing else changed, it would have still been an unmitigated disaster because the fundamental idea behind the console was bad.
Yes, but if they're using the tech that they have now, according to the rumours, they will have to face whatever Sony will release by then, ps5 pro and xbox series XL.
 

PixelKnight

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Can’t say it bothers me too much, but hey, it clearly does bother a chunk of fami, so I hear you.
 
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curl-6

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As someone who is fine with the level of graphics the Switch offers, 2023 seems like the right time; not so soon as to shortchange the 114 million plus people who own a Switch, but not so late as to risk losing their current momentum.

6 years of strong support is enough for me to feel satisfied.
 

Bosintang

Moblin
They have great games coming up. In 12/18 months would be the sweet spot for me, and I believe that's more or less what Nintendo is going to do.
 

Phendrift

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I agree because in general it feels like it’s time and because I kinda just want people to shut up about it lol

Personally though even in Bayo 3 I was fine with it. I’ll be first in line to have an excuse to replay it on more powerful hardware but still had an amazing time
 
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Hermii

Paratroopa
Yes, but if they're using the tech that they have now, according to the rumours, they will have to face whatever Sony will release by then, ps5 pro and xbox series XL.
Pro consoles are irrelevant in this conversation though. Games will still scale to run on Series S.
 
Yes, but if they're using the tech that they have now, according to the rumours, they will have to face whatever Sony will release by then, ps5 pro and xbox series XL.
We aren’t gonna get pro consoles this time around. The cost of everything just isn’t there.
 
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Beanstar40

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While the switch isn’t the whole reason the new pokemon games have a poor presentation, its certainly part of it. I think nintendo has gotten alot of decent looking games out of it over the years, but your right. It really seems as if developers ambitions are coming right up to the line of what the hardware is capable of. I really think they will put out a new console around the time zelda launches. The switch now feels like how the ps360 felt in 2013, some first party devs were really able to squeeze those boxes for all they were worth, but everyone else had started to struggle
 

MusicProposition

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While the switch isn’t the whole reason the new pokemon games have a poor presentation, its certainly part of it. I think nintendo has gotten alot of decent looking games out of it over the years, but your right. It really seems as if developers ambitions are coming right up to the line of what the hardware is capable of. I really think they will put out a new console around the time zelda launches. The switch now feels like how the ps360 felt in 2013, some first party devs were really able to squeeze those boxes for all they were worth, but everyone else had started to struggle
Especially devs with lower budget/time have disadvantages here. Not everyone has the same knowledge and tools for the platform as Nintendo.
Also: while Nintendo was one of the few publishers with constant 60 FPS and nearly zero lags, in this generation the tables have turned and 1st party titles like the sports games clearly show the Switch‘s weakness.
 
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Beanstar40

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My dream for the hardware is 1440p capability docked, and an 800p handheld screen. Im not asking for, or expecting most games to hit 60 fps, but a locked, stable 30 would be perfectly fine for this hardware
 
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Linkstrikesback

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I'm not as sensitive to fps and resolution as most, so feel free to dismiss my opinion if you are. I personally don't need one pronto. There's still plenty of Switch games I haven't gotten around to yet. I already know there's going to be a successor, and it will get here when it gets here. I'd rather spend my time enjoying the Switch I already have now while it's still the current Nintendo system.

3DS was basically a more powerful DS that had extra features and was backwards compatible, yet while it eventually became a great system in its own right, it didn't have the same kind of magic that the DS had. Both systems and their libraries still feel distinct.

I'm not saying the next system is going to struggle out of the gate like the 3DS, it could very well be the opposite. But even with Switch backwards compatibility, it won't have the same feel of the Switch. It will be its own thing. Nintendo Switch is a unique flavor and I'm going to savor it while it's still being served.

In a way, the 3DS actually lost a fair part of what made the DS unique. The asymmetric screens instead of having two identical (albeit with one a touch screen) for the wider 3D screen clearly defined as a primary meant that the second screen was almost forced to be a supplementary screen instead of on equal footing.

The kind of games that used both screens for main gameplay like Sonic Rush, Yoshi's island, Trauma centre, Mario and Luigi: bowsers inside story, The world ends with you, (I could go on!), or games that rotated the device like the brain age games largely evaporated for "Main screen + Menu screen".
 
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the problem I have with constantly bringing up Game Freak is that if they don't fix their tech debt and laggard tool development, we'll be doing the same shit when their first Drake exclusive game comes out. "we need drake 2!?" when their game doesn't look as good as Tears of the Kingdom or Xenoblade X2
 

meatbag

Tingle
the problem I have with constantly bringing up Game Freak is that if they don't fix their tech debt and laggard tool development, we'll be doing the same shit when their first Drake exclusive game comes out. "we need drake 2!?" when their game doesn't look as good as Tears of the Kingdom or Xenoblade X2
Clearly what we really need is a Game Freak Pro
 

Thunder84

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Just gonna bump this little prediction of mine from a couple days ago, lol
Pretty sure most people have (correctly) laid the blame at the feet of GameFreak for SV’s performance. Even on the current hardware, it’s embarrassing.

A Pro would not save those games.
 

TheQuietone

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People were saying this in 2017 not even 6 months after release. The Switch 2 won't fix it either. Because nothing is good enough. Switch 2 could be more powerful than the PS5 or Xbox Series and they'd still say the hardware is holding it back.
 

Raccoon

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Yes because people who complain about power can never have enough. Let's see how long after the next Switch releases before people call for the next one. I'd be willing to bet real money it's less than a year.
I'm really sick of this line of argument. I just wanted Kirby and the Forgotten Land at 60fps god damn it

If by some violation of physics we got a handheld PS5, who exactly would immediately demand better? What games exactly would be held back by it?
 

Beanstar40

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the problem I have with constantly bringing up Game Freak is that if they don't fix their tech debt and laggard tool development, we'll be doing the same shit when their first Drake exclusive game comes out. "we need drake 2!?" when their game doesn't look as good as Tears of the Kingdom or Xenoblade X2
I think most folks realize the hardware isnt the core problem with pokemon, unfortunately is game freak
 
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Vernal

Piranha Plant
the problem I have with constantly bringing up Game Freak is that if they don't fix their tech debt and laggard tool development, we'll be doing the same shit when their first Drake exclusive game comes out. "we need drake 2!?" when their game doesn't look as good as Tears of the Kingdom or Xenoblade X2
Well it depends on who's the "we" you're talking about here, doesn't it? I know I wouldn't, so long as it looks better than what they've done before and actually runs well (and by well I mean stable).

There would be a discussion over visuals within the Internet audience the minute an hypothetical drake XCX 2 drops though, that I agree.
 
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TheQuietone

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I'm really sick of this line of argument. I just wanted Kirby and the Forgotten Land at 60fps god damn it

If by some violation of physics we got a handheld PS5, who exactly would immediately demand better? What games exactly would be held back by it?
There are literally people who claim they won't game on anything except high specs gaming pcs. There are people who will never be satisfied. Note that I never said you were one.
 

Raccoon

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There are literally people who claim they won't game on anything except high specs gaming pcs. There are people who will never be satisfied. Note that I never said you were one.
"people who complain about hardware can never have enough"

I'm someone who complains about hardware, and I think we're very close to good enough. In fact, unless it's underclocked or otherwise held back, the rumored Drake SOC sounds well in the territory of good enough for Nintendo. They don't make games at AAA fidelity, so at some point it'll become a matter of what their teams can accomplish as opposed to what the hardware can handle. Right now Kirby and Bowser's Fury (among others) demonstrate that the current paradigm is the reverse.
 

TheQuietone

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"people who complain about hardware can never have enough"

I'm someone who complains about hardware, and I think we're very close to good enough. In fact, unless it's underclocked or otherwise held back, the rumored Drake SOC sounds well in the territory of good enough for Nintendo. They don't make games at AAA fidelity, so at some point it'll become a matter of what their teams can accomplish as opposed to what the hardware can handle. Right now Kirby and Bowser's Fury (among others) demonstrate that the current paradigm is the reverse.
Uhhhhh go back to my post because you are misquoting me. I said power not hardware and no I'm not using power as a synonym for hardware there. Anyways I am not going to argue anymore because of my anxiety and it's bad for me. You want 60 fps go ahead and want it. I'm nobody's boss not even my own.
 

Raccoon

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Uhhhhh go back to my post because you are misquoting me. I said power not hardware and no I'm not using power as a synonym for hardware there. Anyways I am not going to argue anymore because of my anxiety and it's bad for me. You want 60 fps go ahead and want it. I'm nobody's boss not even my own.
it's irrelevant to my point: in this case I meant hardware interchangeably with power

I really resent this position because it makes out everyone who would like these games to perform better on native hardware to be completely unreasonable. The sort of enthusiast you described earlier is never actually part of this conversation, because no one who only plays on high end desktop computers is demanding a better mobile chipset. It's an illogical dismissal of everyone like me who just wants the games we have now to hit native performance
 

TheQuietone

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it's irrelevant to my point: in this case I meant hardware interchangeably with power

I really resent this position because it makes out everyone who would like these games to perform better on native hardware to be completely unreasonable. The sort of enthusiast you described earlier is never actually part of this conversation, because no one who only plays on high end desktop computers is demanding a better mobile chipset. It's an illogical dismissal of everyone like me who just wants the games we have now to hit native performance
Look I have bad anxiety due to ptsd that sometimes triggers suicidal thoughts if it goes beyond a threshhold. It's why I am the "quiet one" because Id rather avoid conflict. Just forget I said anything and end this here. Please. I don't want to argue over something trivial. Want what you want. Hope you have a great day.
 
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MisterSpo

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As someone who is fine with the level of graphics the Switch offers, 2023 seems like the right time; not so soon as to shortchange the 114 million plus people who own a Switch, but not so late as to risk losing their current momentum.

6 years of strong support is enough for me to feel satisfied.
And let's also not forget that Switch will likely continue to receive games beyond 2023. I don't see Nintendo canning a Switch version of Metroid Prime 4; titles like Tears of the Kingdom and Pikmin 4 may already be examples of 'cross-gen' software, so it's not as if early 2023 will mark the end of software support from Nintendo.
the problem I have with constantly bringing up Game Freak is that if they don't fix their tech debt and laggard tool development, we'll be doing the same shit when their first Drake exclusive game comes out. "we need drake 2!?" when their game doesn't look as good as Tears of the Kingdom or Xenoblade X2
I think it's a very salient point that yes, Game Freak really do need better tools and a better game engine and potentially more time in their development schedules to make the kinds of large scale Pokemon titles that they're trying to make. Do they have the time and resources to build new tools, familiarise their staff with it, and also apply that knowledge to the next Pokemon title while working with new hardware? Potentially we could also be looking at cross-gen Pokemon of some sort in 2024; unless Game Freak contract out another remake to ILCA while GF focus on getting gen 10 in as good a shape as possible for 2025.
It's an illogical dismissal of everyone like me who just wants the games we have now to hit native performance
One of the things I'm genuinely curious about - what will 'native performance' be on the next system? Are games capped at 30fps going to be acceptable, if it's an open world game, or if resolution and image quality are prioritised? or is 60fps going to be the floor/benchmark? If the next system has a maximum resolution of 4K in docked mode thanks to DLSS, and games frequently are below that, is that not acceptable?

I'm not trying to make it out that you'll be unreasonable; just that there are still going to be wildly variable performances on the next mobile hardware as developers try and prioritise different types of experience.

(absolutely not a tech-head, so er yeah maybe I'm basically asking if the quarks will align with the sun to power Nintendo's next device, idk; this isn't meant to be gibberish but more of a sincere question)
 
I think it's a very salient point that yes, Game Freak really do need better tools and a better game engine and potentially more time in their development schedules to make the kinds of large scale Pokemon titles that they're trying to make. Do they have the time and resources to build new tools, familiarise their staff with it, and also apply that knowledge to the next Pokemon title while working with new hardware? Potentially we could also be looking at cross-gen Pokemon of some sort in 2024; unless Game Freak contract out another remake to ILCA while GF focus on getting gen 10 in as good a shape as possible for 2025.
they recently started up an R&D team that bore fruit in how pokemon rigs are handled. whether or not they test out new tools that could lead to better performance isn't something that can be known.

personally, I think they should just license an external engine. their use case is most benefitting of it since they don't have a massive engineering staff, and have a rather short release period between their multiple teams.
 
anything that they don't have to maintain themselves sound like a good idea. maintaining an engine these days takes a large amount of people and it's a never-ending task

here's a talk from the studio behind Frostpunk and why they changed from their stable and very usable in-house engine to UE5. it was taking up resources that they felt they could have used to make the games themselves better

at that same event, Crystal Dynamics talked about the same thing and they encountered the same issues


and these are studios that don't have to worry about putting out games on a regular basis to maintain a billion dollar IP
 

Raccoon

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One of the things I'm genuinely curious about - what will 'native performance' be on the next system? Are games capped at 30fps going to be acceptable, if it's an open world game, or if resolution and image quality are prioritised? or is 60fps going to be the floor/benchmark? If the next system has a maximum resolution of 4K in docked mode thanks to DLSS, and games frequently are below that, is that not acceptable?

I'm not trying to make it out that you'll be unreasonable; just that there are still going to be wildly variable performances on the next mobile hardware as developers try and prioritise different types of experience.

(absolutely not a tech-head, so er yeah maybe I'm basically asking if the quarks will align with the sun to power Nintendo's next device, idk; this isn't meant to be gibberish but more of a sincere question)
This is a salient point: any game could run at double the frame rate if it had to do half the work, so to speak. Kirby and the Forgotten Land, like Star Allies before it, is an example of prioritizing image quality and detail over hitting 60 frames per second; any improvements to hardware could very well just be allocated to further improvements to quality and, as we see in the AAA industry, often are.

However, my perspective is that the Drake as we potentially understand it is enough to provide 60 fps for a lot of games that could use it well and stable performance for games that struggle. Improvements to asset fidelity and overall image quality will require greater investment in production, and I believe that Nintendo is at a point where they'll get more out of hardware than they should be expected to pour into art. I've spoken in broad hyperbole about the software and especially art crisis at Nintendo, but in the discussion of future hardware I think it is good to expect the near future of Nintendo games to be what we have now spiffed up with some hardware accelerated effects and running better than we've come to accept.
 

MisterSpo

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This is a salient point: any game could run at double the frame rate if it had to do half the work, so to speak. Kirby and the Forgotten Land, like Star Allies before it, is an example of prioritizing image quality and detail over hitting 60 frames per second; any improvements to hardware could very well just be allocated to further improvements to quality and, as we see in the AAA industry, often are.

However, my perspective is that the Drake as we potentially understand it is enough to provide 60 fps for a lot of games that could use it well and stable performance for games that struggle. Improvements to asset fidelity and overall image quality will require greater investment in production, and I believe that Nintendo is at a point where they'll get more out of hardware than they should be expected to pour into art. I've spoken in broad hyperbole about the software and especially art crisis at Nintendo, but in the discussion of future hardware I think it is good to expect the near future of Nintendo games to be what we have now spiffed up with some hardware accelerated effects and running better than we've come to accept.
This seems sensible to me; partially because I can see a cross-gen situation where some games - like Tears of the Kingdom and Pikmin 4 - would be 'spiffed up' on the new hardware but would presumably run with some compromises on the existing Switch (900p/30fps on Switch for Zelda; 1080p/60fps on new hardware, or 1440p/30fps and so on).
 

Dardan Sandiego

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This entire discussion is weirdly dramatic over something as low stakes as some people wanting better hardware and others feeling like it's still fine.
 

GamerJM

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I'm really sick of this line of argument. I just wanted Kirby and the Forgotten Land at 60fps god damn it

If by some violation of physics we got a handheld PS5, who exactly would immediately demand better? What games exactly would be held back by it?

I think there's a difference between a handheld PS5 and Drake. Unless the next Switch can handle 100% of PS5/XSX cross-gen games and not have the framerate chug at all, there will be complaints. Handheld PS5 is actually probably the exact moment where the complaints end, at least until the PS6 drops.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't have more powerful hardware, I want it for myself, and I think it would be good. But I don't think that necessarily means the folks saying "people will still want something more powerful" aren't wrong. I just think those people care too much about what people do/don't want and need to just learn to ignore threads like this from more hardware-minded people.
 

NarohDethan

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Agreed. Every Switch game I play I can't help but to think how good it would look if not constrained by the hardware.
 
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ragolliangatan

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I think we are due a Switch successor sooner rather than later- however, it isn't the Switch hardware holding Game Freak back. The tech issues with the latest Pokemon are 100% dev issues not the hardware.
 

Golden

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For games like Bayonetta 3, NMH and Tears of the Kingdom, sure. But no matter how powerful the next console is, the next pokemon game will still be as graphically embarrassing. Gamefreak's inability to direct a project properly is a recurrent theme since the 3DS games. They adapt slower than their growing ambition and every time they try to tackle a new challenge without having fixed the previous style.
 

Tentacle-tropes

Paratroopa
For games like Bayonetta 3, NMH and Tears of the Kingdom, sure. But no matter how powerful the next console is, the next pokemon game will still be as graphically embarrassing. Gamefreak's inability to direct a project properly is a recurrent theme since the 3DS games. They adapt slower than their growing ambition and every time they try to tackle a new challenge without having fixed the previous style.
The issue is multi-pronged rather then GF’s inability for producer management.
 
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Dekuman

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Game Freak is an extreme example and I agree more powerful hardware by itself will not fix their issues, but they can probably target a modest visual look and get decent performance.

I am a huge fan of the Switch, i appreciate the impossible and high effort ports which continue this year. This year may have seen the most of them. But I look at the compromises made to XBC3, 3rd party ports suffering, and I wonder, what if we just had more powerful hardware.

The market is more than ready. I'm somewhat worried the reason we've gone this long without a successor is Nintendo is yet again planning for a clean break, which means our expectations of an overlapped generaitonal cycle isn't as certain. But I'm hoping it's just a combination of wanting to monetize the 110+m installed base , waiting out the supply chain uncertainties, and getting the pipeline in place for the successor.
 
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norealmx

Rattata
I don't expect to see any Pro, and the successor to come out in 2024.

Some people complain about "performance". Gamers keep playing, and the only important thing for Nintendo, buying. Why would Nintendo be worried about a new system when the Switch has surpassed the success of two whole rival generations?
 

curl-6

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I guarantee that within 12 months of Drake releasing, many will already be saying it's falling too far behind the PS5 Pro and Xbox Series Z and that Nintendo needs to make stronger hardware, and that it's specs are holding back whatever the next big first party games will be.
 
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ShadowFox08

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Somewhere within 3 months of Zelda:Totk is the next most closest date...

I guarantee that within 12 months of Drake releasing, many will already be saying it's falling too far behind the PS5 Pro and Xbox Series Z and that Nintendo needs to make stronger hardware, and that it's specs are holding back whatever the next big first party games will be.
With the chip shortage and cross multiplaform support for last gen lasting way longer than expected, it could take a while before we get a pro console for Sony and MS. Maybe not at all. Not to mention inflation and Sony increasing PS5 price.

Also, the pro consoles will likely just focus on 4k resolution while games will still be focused the base ones. Would be pretty expensive too with the chip shortage.
 


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