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News UK PM Liz Truss Resigns After Just 45 Days in Office

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What a year for the UK... laughing at political ridiculousness aside, I feel for all the families out there barely getting by
 
Let's see if anyone can beat her record at the next GDQ (Governments Done Quick).
 
Just watch them pick someone worse like Badenoch or Braverman, repeat the same mistakes and descend further into chaos, and all the while people struggle under higher bills, higher food prices, low wages and fewer opportunities.

The Tories are now driven into factions diametrically opposed, those that are desperate for more austerity and those desperate for insane ideologies from the far right. Neither will give and inch, and the public won't stand for either ideology now.

They've lost the collective plot and we need a general election to sort this mess out now. We won't get one because they believe they have a God given right to rule, and would rather reduce our country to ashes than hand over to Labour, but we really should. Their mandate from the electorate was already shaky under Truss, it's crumbled to tofu now.
 
Where's the Summoning Salt video on this amazing Margaret Thatcher any% speedrun WR?
 
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chocolate_supra said:
Or actually...

Don't parents often go through that awkward phase where they imitate their kids to try and look cool? Maybe that's what's going on..
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Makes sense, because US desperately tries to imitate their parents as well since its infancy, even though it claims to be nothing like them, because ew.

Circle of life.
 
The UK needs an election, but the tory majority is too big. They'll just cling to their seats til the end.
 
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I mean I don’t what’s worse

A PM throwing in the towel after 45 days

Or

Boris thinking he can become PM again

I mean, the punches to the gut aren’t stopping anytime soon. But there is a point where we should stop the UK from punishing themselves
 
Sadist said:
But there is a point where we should stop the UK from punishing themselves
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I get your point but the despair and anger that's being felt across the country is largely because nobody has any say in any of this but instead has to watch their lives go to shit while this lot perform rich tosser theatre on the national stage and profit from their suffering. The idea of a masochist electorate allows us to sidestep the fact that we live under a ghoulish political class who despise us. Even a Starmer government would implement harsh austerity, they're already making excuses for it in advance.
 
Ramune said:
I get your point but the despair and anger that's being felt across the country is largely because nobody has any say in any of this but instead has to watch their lives go to shit while this lot perform rich tosser theatre on the national stage and profit from their suffering. The idea of a masochist electorate allows us to sidestep the fact that we live under a ghoulish political class who despise us. Even a Starmer government would implement harsh austerity, they're already making excuses for it in advance.
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My apologies, sometimes a joke is needed, but I need to be serious about it.

I can’t imagine to begin what some people in the UK must think about the state of affairs, but as someone looking from the outside in, it’s just baffling to see, maybe even cruel.
 
Ramune said:
I get your point but the despair and anger that's being felt across the country is largely because nobody has any say in any of this but instead has to watch their lives go to shit while this lot perform rich tosser theatre on the national stage and profit from their suffering. The idea of a masochist electorate allows us to sidestep the fact that we live under a ghoulish political class who despise us. Even a Starmer government would implement harsh austerity, they're already making excuses for it in advance.
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A Starmer Government would in no way implement harsh austerity. All of their recently announced policies, indicate that they will be spending again on the NHS, welfare and energy, far more than even the most left leaning Tory would ever consider. Heck today even they announced a wide range of new policies that would help workers get fairer benefits and protections (announcements that were understandably overshadowed).

I get not liking Starmer but I hate this 'what's the point when Labour are just as bad' nonsense because it's a self defeating false equivilence and lets the conservatives keep their grip on power.
 
Galgavias said:
I get not liking Starmer but I hate this 'what's the point when Labour are just as bad' nonsense because it's a self defeating false equivilence and lets the conservatives keep their grip on power.
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I didn't say they were just as bad - I'm a Labour voter and obviously would rather a Labour government than a Conservative one - but I was disappointed and uninspired by Starmer's speech at the TUC and feel that they currently have carte blanche to focus on clearing the very low bar the Tories have set. My feeling is that they'll continue to leave a lot of people in the lurch or tell people things can't be that much better. I would love for them to inspire more confidence from me, believe me, but there have been big missteps by the party on a lot of fronts over the past couple of years for me that continue today and make me distrustful. I'll still hold my nose and go forward with them if it's the best route to a smidgen of change.

Sadist said:
My apologies, sometimes a joke is needed, but I need to be serious about it.
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Sorry if I seemed a bit dour. I think humour is fine - we're definitely all doing it! - I'm just seeing some stuff where people think e.g. we've changed out minds about Truss and got rid of her, or we're pulling any levers. Mostly people are just watching bemused or angrily! It's a very weird situation where the Tories have decided to just implode and show off their worst impulses repeatedly in front of us all while repeatedly saying "okay let's try again." And to be fair, people did vote for the party with Johnson at the helm at the last GE.
 
I see the Mail is keeping mighty quiet, as it joins in the mockery of Truss’s fall, about how it’s front page heralded her economic plan with ‘At last! A true Tory budget!’
 
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Ramune said:
I didn't say they were just as bad - I'm a Labour voter and obviously would rather a Labour government than a Conservative one - but I was disappointed and uninspired by Starmer's speech at the TUC and feel that they currently have carte blanche to focus on clearing the very low bar the Tories have set. My feeling is that they'll continue to leave a lot of people in the lurch or tell people things can't be that much better. I would love for them to inspire more confidence from me, believe me, but there have been big missteps by the party on a lot of fronts over the past couple of years for me that continue today and make me distrustful. I'll still hold my nose and go forward with them if it's the best route to a smidgen of change.
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We have to be realistic in that Labour, when they get into power, are going to be left with a flaming dumpster fire to deal with and they will spend the entirity of their first term putting them out. They're not going to be able to wave a magic wand and sort this stuff out in six months. We are going to have to be patient, and that includes during this period when they're still in opposition. I mean it'd be carthatic to see Starmer go nuclear on the idiots who did this to us sure, but tactically at this moment I think they're making the right calls; presenting a united front, offering enough of a tangible vision of what the country would like under them, and not interrupting the Tories when they continue to trip over their own shoelaces. And you need only look at the polls for evidence this approach is working.

Remember that people were incredibly lukewarm on Biden when he became President, and held their nose in voting booths because it was either him or Trump, and now two years in he's been doing good work stateside. We have to hope Starmer does the same, and judging by the policies they have announced there are encouraging signs.

And if he doesn't, we give him hell. But at least the Tories will be in the background squabbling like children while we do.
 
Galgavias said:
And you need only look at the polls for evidence this approach is working.
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I mean yes, the polls are incredible and I'm sure they'll absolutely run away with the next election, but the Tories are doing a lot of work for them by absolutely shitting the bed on a huge scale. I want the Tories out, but I'm still not exactly jazzed for Starmer's Labour and I don't trust most of them at all. I hope my distrust turns out to be unnecessary and I hope they offer more than not being as shit as their predecessors, that's all.

Editing to add: I think in a lot of ways we're arguing similar things lol, my initial point was just that the UK can't really "stop punishing itself", it can just punish itself a little less because we have a hole to dig ourselves out of and Labour are clearly going to be very cautious. Starmer is big on "let me be frank", "we must be realistic", etc.
 
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I think the most interesting thing about this whole fiasco is the question of how sovereign democratic governments even are in the face of global markets anymore. The UK's fiscal policy is now largely set out by the central bank (as it controls the interest rates), which is independent from the government. The UK central bank has been raising rates, in an effort to induce recession, in an effort to control inflation. This is because inflation is seen as the greater evil than recession - in part because it hurts the rich far more than the poor over the medium to long term (which I think a lot of people don't understand), while recession almost always benefits those with cash in hand able to scoop up assets at bargain prices.

So the Truss/Kwarteng budget went directly against this fiscal policy - it was designed to spend big and promote growth. Sure, that growth would have been concentrated among the rich and corporations, and they had no idea where the money would come from but that's what it was. Totally contrary to the Bank of England's policy.

And the markets rose up and said "Fuck you, the Bank of England is right, you're wrong - get the fuck out." And now they're out, basically immediately. While it's the right call, that's a little worrying to me.

The real mystery is how a clueless and incompetent political outsider with no allies like Truss ever made it to the top spot in the first place. Makes no sense whatsoever. I did feel bad for her - pure incompetence and idiocy is not malice.
 
Heron said:
I think the most interesting thing about this whole fiasco is the question of how sovereign democratic governments even are in the face of global markets anymore. The UK's fiscal policy is now largely set out by the central bank (as it controls the interest rates), which is independent from the government. The UK central bank has been raising rates, in an effort to induce recession, in an effort to control inflation. This is because inflation is seen as the greater evil than recession - in part because it hurts the rich far more than the poor over the medium to long term (which I think a lot of people don't understand), while recession almost always benefits those with cash in hand able to scoop up assets at bargain prices.

So the Truss/Kwarteng budget went directly against this fiscal policy - it was designed to spend big and promote growth. Sure, that growth would have been concentrated among the rich and corporations, and they had no idea where the money would come from but that's what it was. Totally contrary to the Bank of England's policy.

And the markets rose up and said "Fuck you, the Bank of England is right, you're wrong - get the fuck out." And now they're out, basically immediately. While it's the right call, that's a little worrying to me.

The real mystery is how a clueless and incompetent political outsider with no allies like Truss ever made it to the top spot in the first place. Makes no sense whatsoever. I did feel bad for her - pure incompetence and idiocy is not malice.
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There's definitely an issue that the Bank of England has acted sluggishly recently, and the past 12 years of monetary and political policy has largely resulted in the already wealthy either consolidating their riches or getting richer at the expense of everyone else. You can absolutely make the case that this is why our economy is so sluggish and productivity so poor, because despite everything looking fresh on the surface it's all collapsing on the inside.

But the issue is really that the conservatives have been operating in La La Land ever since Brexit happened. Economic reality was flung out and replaced with a near religious fervor, anyone pointing out the realities and follies of this project chased out and branded a heathen. Heck the current BoE Governor got the job from Boris by being a Brexit true believer, so it's no wonder they're chasing their tails.

And then in steam Truss and Kwartang with their insane libertarian nonsense, put into power by their mysterious financial backers, keen to turn us into their petri dish for their radical far right ideas. And lo and behold, as happens every time they attempt to implement their nonsense, it runs into a brick wall when it meets reality.

British Politics is no longer based in reality, but in feelings and emotion. And that's why it's unravelling at breakneck speed.
 
Heron said:
The real mystery is how a clueless and incompetent political outsider with no allies like Truss ever made it to the top spot in the first place. Makes no sense whatsoever.
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It felt so uncanny the second it became apparent she was going to win the leadership contest. Like surely everyone knew it was a disaster waiting to happen. But as Galgavias says, nothing seems to be rooted in reality for them anymore, and I sort of wonder if they've all been aware of this and so they're just chucking people into the spotlight as kindling while they...I don't know, buy time? Try to make off with everything they can? I don't think they anticipated Truss would do so much damage though and probably believed they could use her to tread water for a while.

Or they really were true believers and thought this would all go swimmingly. It really is something else to behold, and all of their ideas for who should step in next and their simping for Johnson to come back is equally puzzling. They are just incapable of detoxifying the brand or appearing unified, something that ironically used to seem easier for conservatives and was a bigger stumbling block for the left.
 
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Galgavias said:
There's definitely an issue that the Bank of England has acted sluggishly recently, and the past 12 years of monetary and political policy has largely resulted in the already wealthy either consolidating their riches or getting richer at the expense of everyone else. You can absolutely make the case that this is why our economy is so sluggish and productivity so poor, because despite everything looking fresh on the surface it's all collapsing on the inside.

But the issue is really that the conservatives have been operating in La La Land ever since Brexit happened. Economic reality was flung out and replaced with a near religious fervor, anyone pointing out the realities and follies of this project chased out and branded a heathen. Heck the current BoE Governor got the job from Boris by being a Brexit true believer, so it's no wonder they're chasing their tails.

And then in steam Truss and Kwartang with their insane libertarian nonsense, put into power by their mysterious financial backers, keen to turn us into their petri dish for their radical far right ideas. And lo and behold, as happens every time they attempt to implement their nonsense, it runs into a brick wall when it meets reality.

British Politics is no longer based in reality, but in feelings and emotion. And that's why it's unravelling at breakneck speed.
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I completely agree. I think denial is a natural reaction to negative news, and the reality that the UK has become comparatively impoverished in both the working and middle classes compared to other leading nations, that Brexit can't really work etc - this is news so negative and difficult to actually deal with in practice that denial actually makes sense as a reaction.

Out of the collapse needs to come leadership that addresses the nation with a "Things are bad, they've been getting bad for some time, here's what we're going to do" approach rather than pretending that everything's okay. It's not okay. It's going to get worse in 2023 before it gets better.

The only good thing is that we're close enough to the worst of it that the tories won't escape blame for it. If the recession was coming in 2024, the tories would abandon ship now, call a general election, then blame everything on Starmer in 2024. Can't do that now.

Anyway, what I'd like to see is a general election, labour getting in and focusing on
  • increasing the minimum wage to keep up with inflation
  • windfall tax on energy companies
  • investing in infrastructure and not being afraid to spend during the recession (that's when you find value) - and raise taxes if you need to spend
  • progressive housing taxation to reduce house prices (lol yeah right)

But given what I've said above I think the tories are going to try to ride out 2023 and hope things turn around in 2024 and take credit when they do. (We ended inflation, we ended the energy crisis, we got the stock market growing again, we helped end the war in Ukraine etc)
 
Zellia said:
Just waiting for Boris to get back in then get suspended by the Privileges Committee. The bantz will be off the charts.
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How long until Monsieur Cameron comes out of the woodwork to get back in?

Or maybe at this time we all need a STRONG AND STABLE government, over to you, Theresa.
 
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Zellia said:
Just waiting for Boris to get back in then get suspended by the Privileges Committee. The bantz will be off the charts.
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If he gets back in, it's a certainty he will try every trick to get the committee nullified.

The one positive I'm taking from this whole debacle is that the way the polls are going, the Tories won't even be the official opposition after the next election.
 
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Daily Star on Boris today: “They’ve tossed aside the lettuce, now they’re serving up the aubergine”
 
Galgavias said:
I get not liking Starmer but I hate this 'what's the point when Labour are just as bad' nonsense because it's a self defeating false equivilence and lets the conservatives keep their grip on power.
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I don’t think it does lead to that, because the people complaining that Starmer isn’t good enough for them aren’t going to go and vote Conservative, they’re going to hold their nose and vote Labour (if they’re in England) or Green or someone else who actually has an appealing platform.

It’s very understandable imo why people would not be thrilled at the idea of a Starmer government given the dramatic political makeover he has undergone since 2019, firmly moving towards the center when the Tories are moving in leaps and bounds towards the right. You can argue it has been done to make him more “electable”, but when you consider most politicians underdeliver on what they promise in their campaign or manifesto then it’s hard to be enthusiastic about what he will try and accomplish.

Imo, what the general public sees as the “appeal” of Labour at the moment is that the Tories have immolated themselves and destroyed the economy in a spectacular fashion and they are desperate for change, not desperate for Labour. Boris was ousted in an extremely embarrassing manner and still the polling was nothing like it is now, with many finding Starmer only +20 favourability points above Johnson but still in the negative figures, even as late as June / July when Boris was in the midst of his scandals.

In Scotland particularly Labour have made deals with the Tories, not the SNP, to take minority control of councils in Stirling and North Lanarkshire. It is hard to stomach this behaviour given Labour claim to be ideologically more similar to the SNP yet would rather compromise with the Tories just to keep the SNP out of office than have actual progressive councils.
 
If I was in a marginal I'd consider voting Labour, but I'm not, so I'll probably spoil my ballot paper.

Starmer is a liar who hates leftists like me (but still wants my vote, and if he doesn't get it then I'm a vile Tory enabler etc etc), the Greens have a massive transphobia problem and I know my local candidate is a transphobe, so they're out.

Man the UK political space is depressing. No wonder I'm more enthusiastic about trade union action and campaigns these days.
 
www.theguardian.com

Boris Johnson says he will not stand in Tory leadership contest

Move means Rishi Sunak looks almost certain to be PM
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Claims he has 102 MPs supporting him; no, you cannot see the evidence, you should just totally trust him on this given his sterling reputation for being truthful.

Unless Mordaunt (who, lest we forget, pivoted incredibly clumsily to transphobia last time she launched a leadership bid) gets the 100 MPs she needs, looks like it could be a simple coronation for Sunak. Time for a new wave of austerity to wash over this benighted land!
 
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If Mordaunt can squeak it over the line to 100 MPs, I think a membership vote could still end up putting her in No 10: the Tory party members chose Truss over Sunak last time. They don't want him as PM.

That said, it's very much an Aliens vs Predators moment here: whoever wins, we lose.
 
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Belinda Blumenthal said:
I don’t think it does lead to that, because the people complaining that Starmer isn’t good enough for them aren’t going to go and vote Conservative, they’re going to hold their nose and vote Labour (if they’re in England) or Green or someone else who actually has an appealing platform.

It’s very understandable imo why people would not be thrilled at the idea of a Starmer government given the dramatic political makeover he has undergone since 2019, firmly moving towards the center when the Tories are moving in leaps and bounds towards the right. You can argue it has been done to make him more “electable”, but when you consider most politicians underdeliver on what they promise in their campaign or manifesto then it’s hard to be enthusiastic about what he will try and accomplish.

Imo, what the general public sees as the “appeal” of Labour at the moment is that the Tories have immolated themselves and destroyed the economy in a spectacular fashion and they are desperate for change, not desperate for Labour. Boris was ousted in an extremely embarrassing manner and still the polling was nothing like it is now, with many finding Starmer only +20 favourability points above Johnson but still in the negative figures, even as late as June / July when Boris was in the midst of his scandals.

In Scotland particularly Labour have made deals with the Tories, not the SNP, to take minority control of councils in Stirling and North Lanarkshire. It is hard to stomach this behaviour given Labour claim to be ideologically more similar to the SNP yet would rather compromise with the Tories just to keep the SNP out of office than have actual progressive councils.
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I think my main point wasn't so much that 'we have to vote Labour in no matter what'. Ultimately it's your vote, and what you do with it what you will. But the issue I take is the idea that a Labour government would just be a continuation of the status quo so there's no point voting for them. And a lot of people do think that way. A flawed, warts and all Labour government is still preferable to a conservative one at this stage, and if they did get into power they would bring in some good policies because Labour generally do whenever they're in power. Heck even under Blair we got the minimum wage and improved maternity, for example.

This of course does not mean that they'll be perfect. Starmer is being far too wishy washy on strikes, immigration and trans rights for my liking right now (at some point a major political party is going to have to accept that the hysteria around Brexit and immigration has done irreperable damage to our economy, but I don't think the population is there yet). But there is an element of him just having to keep his powder dry and stay out of controversy to retain electability. And it sucks, but that's the game of politics, and the overton window has shifted so far rightward Labour are effectively playing an away game on the Tories home turf.

Your point about politicians underlivering on electoral promises is very valid, but it can go both ways. Once in power (and provided they have a big enough majority) there's actually very little to stop a political party from implementing stuff that wasn't on their manifesto, or go in a totally different direction like Truss did. My point is that right now Labour have no real power at all, and I'd vastly prefer it if we could snipe at them and drag them back leftwards if they were to actually be in government, than if they were to remain in opposition for another 5 years. Because at least then our sniping might actually have an impact.
 
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Only an hour until we might have a new PM if Mordaunt doesn’t hit the 100 MP threshold to be considered as a candidate
 
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