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Discussion Trails From Zero Is Out Now. Fami, Let Me Share My Full Enthusiasm For This Awesome Game With You.

Vladimir said:
Hi friends, I have never played a Trails game but this one interests me, can I start with Zero?
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Yes! Zero is a great place to start if you haven’t played one! It’s mostly an all new cast in a brand new country and the story is primarily about the new characters. There are a few returning characters in this game from the Sky trilogy (Zero is the fourth game in the overall series), but the new characters are meeting old characters for the first time so you won’t be lost.

Post 191 was written from someone in your position btw if you want a second opinion!
 
Soooo close to the end with Zero. I'm in the final chapter but I don't think I've hit the final dungeon quite yet. I'll have other things to play but I'm not ready for the trails void it will leave once it's over! At least Azure and Reverie are coming relatively soon.

Also, I don't know if this game is supposed to be hard or not (on normal), but I feel like I've made some pretty busted equipment/quartz combos haha. I'm certainly not complaining though, I tend to avoid higher difficulties in these kinds of games. I feel like the Sky games on normal were a bit more difficult, though.
 
Gengar said:
Soooo close to the end with Zero. I'm in the final chapter but I don't think I've hit the final dungeon quite yet. I'll have other things to play but I'm not ready for the trails void it will leave once it's over! At least Azure and Reverie are coming relatively soon.

Also, I don't know if this game is supposed to be hard or not (on normal), but I feel like I've made some pretty busted equipment/quartz combos haha. I'm certainly not complaining though, I tend to avoid higher difficulties in these kinds of games. I feel like the Sky games on normal were a bit more difficult, though.
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Yeah Zero is too often pretty breezy by comparison for better or worse. If you knock enemies out on the field a team rush often obliterates them. There’s some gnarly equipment / quartz combos beyond that.
 
I don't know about Reverie or Kuro games but after Trails in the Sky the 3rd I have played all games on hard on my first playthrough because of how easy they are on normal, especially CS1 and 2. Haha Rean delay OP.
 
I was playing at a somewhat slow pace enjoying my time. But once I hit the latter part of chapter 4 and everything after that, I have played none stop till like 3 am, the story really griped me lol. I should be done over the weekend.
 
xghost777 said:
Yeah Zero is too often pretty breezy by comparison for better or worse. If you knock enemies out on the field a team rush often obliterates them. There’s some gnarly equipment / quartz combos beyond that.
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I haven't found too much yet, but I'm still just at the end part of Chapter 1, so I know the broken stuff will be coming. There was a lot of great fun stuff in Cold Steel 1/2, like untouchable dodge-Fie, Super-strength-S-Break Laura, and magi-master Emma.
 
SammyJ9 said:
I haven't found too much yet, but I'm still just at the end part of Chapter 1, so I know the broken stuff will be coming. There was a lot of great fun stuff in Cold Steel 1/2, like untouchable dodge-Fie, Super-strength-S-Break Laura, and magi-master Emma.
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One of my favorites in Zero is definitely pouring resources into Tio early so she can cast amazing spells that hit everyone often. Hydro Cannon (which is a line attack) and then Avalon Gate were my favorites this playthrough. By the end of the game you can make her even stronger by cutting her casting time in half and her best weapon has a 20% chance of deathblows lol.

Edit: I had something too for Tio where you could get 1% of magical damage back as EP which in practice meant she had endless EP.
 
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Finished last night! After playing all of Sky, all of Cold Steel, and now one of the Crossbell games, I would rank Zero... 3rd, probably. While I like Sky SC and the third more, Zero was a fantastic game that balances world building and interesting story events happening at the same time. That's something I thought Sky FC and CS 1 could have done better on. I also liked the extra battle options like combo crafts and the all out attacks (forget what they're actually called) -- overall, I appreciate how combat is relatively easy to understand in these games.

If I were able to experience these games for the first time again, I would definitely play in release order. I picked up Cold Steel on a whim in mid-2021 and was hooked. I read about release order being better before playing CS 2, but I didn't have the self control to stop the CS games. Not to mention the fact that Zero/Azure official releases weren't even confirmed at that point. Still, without prior context, Sky FC would have felt much slower early on, so there are different benefits to starting in different arcs.

What an exciting time to be a fan of this series! 2023 is going to be loaded. I've never been one to do NG+ in Trails, so I'm probably done until Azure comes out. Looking forward to seeing more impressions as more people get into Trails!
 
I am done with Zero. What a joy of a game, I thought I did everything but I missed like 2 or 3 requests. I think I can understand why people like the series. Overall the game was great, the cast was top notch, epic soundtrack (specially at the end), goofy side characters, etc. I cant wait for Azure, I might do a NG+ before it, but I have FE and Octopath so will see. If I had to pick something that I was not a fan of, and this is a mega nitpick, is that towards the end I was barely using regular attacks on bosses and just spamming arts and crafts. My guess would be that given the battle system, its not a priority. I did have 1 go to craft, Burning Rage, the damage was insane.

For Trails fans which game has your favorite cast (as a group)? And was it the first game you played in the series? Cause that happens with series, funny enough playing P5R, I am enjoying it cause my first persona game was PQ2 lol.
 
SirArthur said:
I am done with Zero. What a joy of a game, I thought I did everything but I missed like 2 or 3 requests. I think I can understand why people like the series. Overall the game was great, the cast was top notch, epic soundtrack (specially at the end), goofy side characters, etc. I cant wait for Azure, I might do a NG+ before it, but I have FE and Octopath so will see. If I had to pick something that I was not a fan of, and this is a mega nitpick, is that towards the end I was barely using regular attacks on bosses and just spamming arts and crafts. My guess would be that given the battle system, its not a priority. I did have 1 go to craft, Burning Rage, the damage was insane.

For Trails fans which game has your favorite cast (as a group)? And was it the first game you played in the series? Cause that happens with series, funny enough playing P5R, I am enjoying it cause my first persona game was PQ2 lol.
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I played Zero and Azure last, but for the main party it’s probably the full SSS for me. Not a single dud in there whereas Sky I’m not a big fan of Schera, Class VII Elliot and Millium, and New Class VII Musse.
 
Just finished Chapter 1, and the game is still great and I’m having fun with it. But it just busted out probably my least favorite cliche from Cold Steel (or I guess maybe this game, since it was first?): The “mysterious figures look on from a distance and announce their names, AND nicknames, to the camera for literally no reason other than to tell the player” bit.

“Oho, it’s you, John Smith! Or should I say… the Raging Conflagration!”

“Well met indeed, Eliza Johnson… or rather, Specialty Enforcer Extraordinaire Number 37, the Doom Hope Destoyer!”

(okay I made these up but that’s not far off how this dialogue tends to go :p)
 
SammyJ9 said:
Just finished Chapter 1, and the game is still great and I’m having fun with it. But it just busted out probably my least favorite cliche from Cold Steel (or I guess maybe this game, since it was first?): The “mysterious figures look on from a distance and announce their names, AND nicknames, to the camera for literally no reason other than to tell the player” bit.

“Oho, it’s you, John Smith! Or should I say… the Raging Conflagration!”

“Well met indeed, Eliza Johnson… or rather, Specialty Enforcer Extraordinaire Number 37, the Doom Hope Destoyer!”

(okay I made these up but that’s not far off how this dialogue tends to go :p)
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I always find it hilarious that so many characters in Trails have these silly overblown nicknames. Like, who is giving them to them? I kinda like it with the senior bracers when they are a sort of combination of adventurers and investigators that do quests, so it’s reasonable that they’d end up as local folk heroes or something. A bit like superheroes. But with random generic bad guy from super secret evil organisation #4? Do they choose their own and just encourage their pals to keep saying it until it catches on?
Every time I heard a character say ‘I am Kevin. The super dark Phoenix flashing fire blade of film flam!’ I was like:
 
I adore the titles everyone gets in this series and I especially approve them when the good guys recognize the bad guys titles and vice versa lol. Everyone hypes each other up as these larger than life figures and they have this fun mutual respect thing going.

Zero has some great ones like “The Divine Blade Of Wind”, “The Killing Bear”, and “Son of the War God.” It’s silly when you take a step back, but everyone in Trails says these titles with conviction which makes it work for me.
 
It's cheesy, but that's what these games are to me. :ROFLMAO: (Not in a negative way mind you, I love them LOL)

The overall series Trails is part of, is called Legend of Heroes.. makes sense they give them those long titles rather than saying yea thats Randy for example. They're Heroes and Villains on a world level after all. XD
 
Yeah I get what you’re all saying, it does fit into the universe, it’s not like I don’t overlook all manner of things that are way sillier in rpgs in general, which leaves the superhero nicknames as quirky and fun in comparison :)
 
It's not the nicknames themselves that bother me, as such, they're cheesy but charming in a way. Definitely part of the Legend of Heroes series and it fits! But I DO get a little annoyed when two characters refer to themselves by their nicknames AND their real names, even when they already both know each other and would have absolutely no reason to say that out loud. It's about the same as them pausing mid-conversation to turn to face the camera and directly tell the player "Hey, this is who I am! Remember me for later!"

It's nitpicky, I know, and it's not like other games don't do similar things, but from a writing perspective it always bugs me. Could just be that I've always had it hammered into my head, repeatedly, when taking writing courses in the past to not do 'maid and butler' dialogue, so it's something that always flags in my brain when it shows up.
 
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xghost777 said:
If you feel satisfied with Zero, your Trails journey can safely end with Zero as it doesn't end on a cliffhanger.
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I was coming here to ask this, and then noticed it was already answered in the OP lol. Really looking forward to getting back to this series after Pokémon, and with Fire Emblem being late January I may be able to finish both Sky the 3rd and Zero in between.
 
Small update: I'm still plugging away at the game! I'm on Chapter 3 now, and still having a good time. I'm not entirely sold on the magic system being tied to combinations of sepith instead of just being able to equip high-powered ones that you find, although I guess it is a lot more customizable this way. The characters are enjoyable, and I'm already sure there will be more reveals and things coming up! And even though my memory is hazy, I'm VERY curious about how a certain massive event in Cold Steel relates to this game (or maybe it's in the sequel?) since I've played Cold Steel 1 and 2 already.
 
I got this on Saturday and it’s definitely a slow starter… hopefully it picks up soon. Lots of things that kill the pace like… I’m talking to a reporter and they’re like “oh yeah, I hear this gang war might be relayed to the mafia!” And the characters are like “oh we should ask our boss about this!”. So you have to walk back and ask him and your boss is like “oh yeah the mafia, well you should ask this lawyer about that” - so you go to the lawyer and he’s like “yep, I know about the mafia and they’re bad dudes.” — like couldn’t you have saved me the fifteen minutes of running around and pointless dialogue and just had the reporter give all the info?
 
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I'm in the middle of Chapter 4, now, and the game is still really enjoyable but one negative I have so far is there's not a whole lot resembling an overall 'plot' per se and it feels pretty episodic. There are some lingering questions and some things that I'm sure will tie together, but I guess so far the only main thing that seems to be the biggest driver is the 'Revache vs. Heiyue' story, but even that doesn't have much of a story to it, it's more of a backdrop.

But then, that seems to be kind of Trails' thing: Lots of slow buildup of lore, factions, characters, etc., and then things will eventually happen that utilize them in interesting ways, but you have to be patient. As an example, some things that I've always been curious about that I still have basically no clue of even still, despite having played half of Trails in the Sky, all of Cold Steel 1 and 2, and most of this game:

Ouroboros show up in every game, I think, and I still have absolutely no idea who they are, what their goals are, or why they do what they do. IIRC some of this is talked about more in Cold Steel 2 especially but I've probably forgotten some of that, honestly :p.

I'm also really curious about the ancient lore stuff, that's what interests me the most: Stuff about the Valkyries, ancient Zemuria, artifacts, all of that stuff. And it seems to be VERY hidden and rarely talked about throughout the games.

So far the only things I feel like I'm missing out on having not played the whole Sky trilogy is there's clearly a lot in there with Renne that I don't have the backstory for, but otherwise this game has been great for a starting point. It even gives you a good look at some characters who will be in Cold Steel later, like Lechter (who I did not remember being the goofball that he is in this game, lol)
 
SammyJ9 said:
I'm in the middle of Chapter 4, now, and the game is still really enjoyable but one negative I have so far is there's not a whole lot resembling an overall 'plot' per se and it feels pretty episodic. There are some lingering questions and some things that I'm sure will tie together, but I guess so far the only main thing that seems to be the biggest driver is the 'Revache vs. Heiyue' story, but even that doesn't have much of a story to it, it's more of a backdrop.

But then, that seems to be kind of Trails' thing: Lots of slow buildup of lore, factions, characters, etc., and then things will eventually happen that utilize them in interesting ways, but you have to be patient. As an example, some things that I've always been curious about that I still have basically no clue of even still, despite having played half of Trails in the Sky, all of Cold Steel 1 and 2, and most of this game:

Ouroboros show up in every game, I think, and I still have absolutely no idea who they are, what their goals are, or why they do what they do. IIRC some of this is talked about more in Cold Steel 2 especially but I've probably forgotten some of that, honestly :p.

I'm also really curious about the ancient lore stuff, that's what interests me the most: Stuff about the Valkyries, ancient Zemuria, artifacts, all of that stuff. And it seems to be VERY hidden and rarely talked about throughout the games.

So far the only things I feel like I'm missing out on having not played the whole Sky trilogy is there's clearly a lot in there with Renne that I don't have the backstory for, but otherwise this game has been great for a starting point. It even gives you a good look at some characters who will be in Cold Steel later, like Lechter (who I did not remember being the goofball that he is in this game, lol)
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So much I want to say, but you are so close to the end. Can’t wait to hear what you think! As for your spoiler, I’ll do as best I can with info I think you’d have:

So stuff with Ouroboros is covered across games and same with old lore. I want to say those two actually cover them the least despite CS2 featuring many Enforcers lol (there’s a new game+ exclusive cutscene with the Black Records worth youtubing before Cold Steel III ideally after playing some other games. Glad they never did a new game+ cutscene again lol). But yeah I also don’t really want to say where you’ll get more from past games since it is cool when you get it.

But brief Ouroboros recap, basically they are trying to activate all of the Septterrions scattered across Zemuria, seven ancient artifacts of immense power tied to the seven elements (it’s a hook kind of like the infinity gems in the Marvel movies). All of the enforcers or at least Anguis have met the Grand Master of the society and know/believe stuff that compels them to work towards this. I don’t believe you get further details beyond that in Cold Steel I and II (there’s a thing I’m 50/50 on, but it comes up again obviously) though you do get pieces of the puzzle in prior games and of course more concrete, satisfying answers later even with some things still unknown.
 
Well, that's that. Feels surreal to finally play a new Trails game after waiting for over 2 years. Only two more months until Azure, and then there will finally be no more barriers to playing the full series (well, not counting the delayed localizations).

As for my thoughts on Zero...they're a bit complicated. Let's get this out of the way first. I liked this game a lot. It was great! But there are a lot of elements that I felt could've been handled a whole lot better. The obvious comparison here is Sky FC, and while Zero fixes some of Sky FC's worst aspects, it also regresses in some of its best aspects too.

I have a lot to say, so I'm gonna use spoiler tags to split everything up. Will have spoilers for all of the Sky trilogy, as well as Zero.

  • The main highlight for me is, of course, Crossbell. Liberl was a great setting, but Crossbell is on a different level entirely. Seeing the town change over the course of the game, even if those changes are minor, is really cool to see, and is a great evolution from Sky FC's structure of traveling all of Liberl. While Sky FC moved you forward through the world, Zero makes sure that the world moves alongside you, which really helps you get attached to Crossbell.
  • The sidequests are also better here, too. While I think they're equal from a writing perspective, the day-based structure of Zero makes it a lot easier to keep track of everything and set proper deadlines. It was way too easy to miss out on sidequests in Sky FC and SC, and that issue is pretty much eradicated here.
  • The combat also sees a much needed improvement. It lacks the complexity that you can get in Sky SC and Sky the 3rd, but that's understandable given that you're starting from scratch here. What's important is that it takes off much faster than it does in Sky FC, which doesn't take the kiddy gloves off until the finale. There's a lot more room for customization in Zero, which helps keep the gameplay engaging. Grinding is also improved with the Team Rush ability.
  • This is fairly minor, as Sky FC has a great OST too, but Zero's is my favorite one yet. Get Over the Barrier is absurdly good for a regular battle theme, and I really dig the other combat themes too. The overworld themes are also excellent.
  • This one is more of an even split, but Zero's ensemble of side characters is fantastic, matching the high bar set by Sky FC. I don't think anyone here is as strong of a character as Nial, but it's still great overall. I guess maybe Sergei or Arios, although I'm expecting the latter to develop a lot in Azure.

  • It's hard to really judge Zero's characters against Sky's, given that the Sky characters had three games to develop, but even taking Sky FC on its own I prefer that cast to Zero's. The chemistry between Estelle and Joshua is just off the charts. This is where Zero struggles a bit, as a lot of the character development between the SSS feels...unnatural, for lack of a better word. There's less chemistry between them compared to the Sky FC cast, for one, and a big reason for that is the lack of any downtime. Sky FC is great in this regard, spending a lot of time slowing things down and letting Estelle's relationships develop in a more casual setting. Zero is completely lacking here, relying on the player to buy that everyone in the SSS bonded off-screen, and it didn't quite land for me. The Crossbell Festival would've been the perfect time for that, but they let that opportunity pass them by. I do like what they did with Lloyd though; he's no Estelle, but he's a strong character overall. Definitely lacking his own Joshua though, which was a big reason why Estelle was such a great character.
  • Sky FC also set up the rest of its cast better, in my opinion. Agate and Kloe in particular really shine here; Sky FC does just enough to get you hooked on their character development without being overbearing, and I think a big reason why is due to how the cast rotates between chapters. Character X joins the party, sets up their character arc, and then exits the party before overstaying their welcome. Zero tries to copy this formula a bit, but it doesn't work quite as well due to the main cast remaining permanent party members. Big pieces of backstory are seemingly dropped out of nowhere, like Randy's Jaeger origins or Tio's suffering at the hands of D∴G, but there isn't a lot of buildup to these revelations, and it isn't really capitalized on all that much. Elie has some great moments in Chapter 2, but then proceeds to have almost no effect on the later chapters. Randy's Jaeger origins are played up to be this big reveal, but have pretty much no impact on him or his relationship with the SSS whatsoever. Tio's backstory is the most important here, but it shows up so late that it feels almost inconsequential in a lot of ways. And this isn't even getting into the optional characters like Noel (who's entirely inconsequential), Wazy (who I adore, but also has a very minimal role here), Dudley (who's one of my favorite characters, really liked how they handled him), and Yin (I still don't understand why they revealed her identity as Rixia, felt way too premature and had no payoff at all).
  • The resolution to the Renne story is wonderful, and it does tie in quite nicely with D∴G, but it ultimately feels very out of place. Estelle and Joshua showing up was a great surprise, and they don't completely overtake the story, but Renne's story with them is blatantly pulled from the Sky trilogy. The final scene with them making up with Renne is adorable, but that doesn't change the fact that it has pretty much no relation to the main plot threads of Zero whatsoever, so it definitely felt a bit off. Probably the biggest reason why I still fully recommend playing Sky over Crossbell first, even if Zero is a decent enough starting point.
  • One of my biggest problems with Zero has to be D∴G. Sky FC handled the final antagonist perfectly, setting up the Intelligence Division early on and keeping them relevant throughout the whole game. Learning that they were behind everything is a great twist, but it doesn't feel like a complete asspull, and the connections all make plenty of sense. It's an earned twist, which makes it a great one. D∴G, on the other hand, shows up completely out of nowhere in Chapter 4, and while the connections to them all make sense, they feel a lot more forced due to how late they were introduced. Understanding the Intelligence Division's plot felt fair and rewarding, because the clues were there at the start, whereas everything related to D∴G is withheld to the final 10 hours of the game. Their plot also felt a bit ridiculous for Trails standards; a coup is a lot more logical than brainwashing an entire population.
  • I'm not really sure who's the better comparison, but it doesn't really matter, because Richard and Weissman both kick the shit out of Guenter as antagonists. Richard, just like the Intelligence Division, is set up well beforehand, and while I thought they could have done a better job with him, he's still a great antagonist. Weissman, on the other hand, is a lot more shallow as a character, but his presence is so unabashedly evil and charismatic that it's hard not to love him as a villain, and he gets plenty of time to shine in SC. Guenter drops the ball in all of these areas: there's very little buildup for him as a character, his evil persona is rather boring and tropey, and he gets all of 15 minutes to justify himself as the main antagonist. It's impossible to get attached to him at all, especially considering how big of a heel turn he makes between his doctor persona and his crazy insane cult persona. It's not like there's a whole lot of room to improve him either, unlike Richard (who got some incredible development in SC and 3rd).

  • I may not care for Guenter as a character, but credit to the game for pulling a fast one on me, as I didn't see it coming at all. I really should have, considering he's pretty much just a bootleg Weissman/Alba, but I was way more suspicious of Dieter Crois and Grimwood. Still am, actually. The former ascending to mayor feels like a disaster waiting to happen, and the latter is just...there. It's too suspicious for my liking.
  • Lechter is still a goddamn treat to behold. Absolutely lost my shit when he showed up in Chapter 3, and I can't wait to see his shenanigans continue throughout the series. Kilika showing up was also an awesome surprise.
  • It's better than Sky FC, but Zero definitely has a few tropey and/or uncomfortable moments. Pretty disappointing, given that Sky SC and 3rd did a great job of scrubbing themselves clean after Sky FC indulged a bit too heavily in them.
  • They aren't terribly related, but I'm really interested to see what happens with Heiyue. Garcia aside (who was cool), Revache was pretty boring, but Cao and Heiyue have really piqued my interest. Can't imagine they just fade away, so their involvement in Azure has me intrigued.
  • I brought them up before, but I also want to see what happens with Noel and Wazy in Azure, given that they seemingly join as permanent party members. Have to imagine the SSS learns of Rixia's true identity as well, and I hope Dudley joins as a permanent member eventually.
  • KeA is adorable, but similarly with Renne, everyone's attachment to her feels a bit forced. It just happens so suddenly, and while I definitely understand the desire to protect her, everyone treating her as this magical panacea for everyone's problems felt a tad extreme.

Overall, I think I'd rank the games like this:
  1. Trails in the Sky the 3rd (absolutely love the anthology approach they took here, and the gameplay/bosses are fantastic)
  2. Trails in the Sky
  3. Trails from Zero
  4. Trails in the Sky SC (talked about my grievances in the main RPG thread)
But things could of course change over time. Can't wait for Azure.
 
Thunder84 said:
Well, that's that. Feels surreal to finally play a new Trails game after waiting for over 2 years. Only two more months until Azure, and then there will finally be no more barriers to playing the full series (well, not counting the delayed localizations).

As for my thoughts on Zero...they're a bit complicated. Let's get this out of the way first. I liked this game a lot. It was great! But there are a lot of elements that I felt could've been handled a whole lot better. The obvious comparison here is Sky FC, and while Zero fixes some of Sky FC's worst aspects, it also regresses in some of its best aspects too.

I have a lot to say, so I'm gonna use spoiler tags to split everything up. Will have spoilers for all of the Sky trilogy, as well as Zero.

  • The main highlight for me is, of course, Crossbell. Liberl was a great setting, but Crossbell is on a different level entirely. Seeing the town change over the course of the game, even if those changes are minor, is really cool to see, and is a great evolution from Sky FC's structure of traveling all of Liberl. While Sky FC moved you forward through the world, Zero makes sure that the world moves alongside you, which really helps you get attached to Crossbell.
  • The sidequests are also better here, too. While I think they're equal from a writing perspective, the day-based structure of Zero makes it a lot easier to keep track of everything and set proper deadlines. It was way too easy to miss out on sidequests in Sky FC and SC, and that issue is pretty much eradicated here.
  • The combat also sees a much needed improvement. It lacks the complexity that you can get in Sky SC and Sky the 3rd, but that's understandable given that you're starting from scratch here. What's important is that it takes off much faster than it does in Sky FC, which doesn't take the kiddy gloves off until the finale. There's a lot more room for customization in Zero, which helps keep the gameplay engaging. Grinding is also improved with the Team Rush ability.
  • This is fairly minor, as Sky FC has a great OST too, but Zero's is my favorite one yet. Get Over the Barrier is absurdly good for a regular battle theme, and I really dig the other combat themes too. The overworld themes are also excellent.
  • This one is more of an even split, but Zero's ensemble of side characters is fantastic, matching the high bar set by Sky FC. I don't think anyone here is as strong of a character as Nial, but it's still great overall. I guess maybe Sergei or Arios, although I'm expecting the latter to develop a lot in Azure.

  • It's hard to really judge Zero's characters against Sky's, given that the Sky characters had three games to develop, but even taking Sky FC on its own I prefer that cast to Zero's. The chemistry between Estelle and Joshua is just off the charts. This is where Zero struggles a bit, as a lot of the character development between the SSS feels...unnatural, for lack of a better word. There's less chemistry between them compared to the Sky FC cast, for one, and a big reason for that is the lack of any downtime. Sky FC is great in this regard, spending a lot of time slowing things down and letting Estelle's relationships develop in a more casual setting. Zero is completely lacking here, relying on the player to buy that everyone in the SSS bonded off-screen, and it didn't quite land for me. The Crossbell Festival would've been the perfect time for that, but they let that opportunity pass them by. I do like what they did with Lloyd though; he's no Estelle, but he's a strong character overall. Definitely lacking his own Joshua though, which was a big reason why Estelle was such a great character.
  • Sky FC also set up the rest of its cast better, in my opinion. Agate and Kloe in particular really shine here; Sky FC does just enough to get you hooked on their character development without being overbearing, and I think a big reason why is due to how the cast rotates between chapters. Character X joins the party, sets up their character arc, and then exits the party before overstaying their welcome. Zero tries to copy this formula a bit, but it doesn't work quite as well due to the main cast remaining permanent party members. Big pieces of backstory are seemingly dropped out of nowhere, like Randy's Jaeger origins or Tio's suffering at the hands of D∴G, but there isn't a lot of buildup to these revelations, and it isn't really capitalized on all that much. Elie has some great moments in Chapter 2, but then proceeds to have almost no effect on the later chapters. Randy's Jaeger origins are played up to be this big reveal, but have pretty much no impact on him or his relationship with the SSS whatsoever. Tio's backstory is the most important here, but it shows up so late that it feels almost inconsequential in a lot of ways. And this isn't even getting into the optional characters like Noel (who's entirely inconsequential), Wazy (who I adore, but also has a very minimal role here), Dudley (who's one of my favorite characters, really liked how they handled him), and Yin (I still don't understand why they revealed her identity as Rixia, felt way too premature and had no payoff at all).
  • The resolution to the Renne story is wonderful, and it does tie in quite nicely with D∴G, but it ultimately feels very out of place. Estelle and Joshua showing up was a great surprise, and they don't completely overtake the story, but Renne's story with them is blatantly pulled from the Sky trilogy. The final scene with them making up with Renne is adorable, but that doesn't change the fact that it has pretty much no relation to the main plot threads of Zero whatsoever, so it definitely felt a bit off. Probably the biggest reason why I still fully recommend playing Sky over Crossbell first, even if Zero is a decent enough starting point.
  • One of my biggest problems with Zero has to be D∴G. Sky FC handled the final antagonist perfectly, setting up the Intelligence Division early on and keeping them relevant throughout the whole game. Learning that they were behind everything is a great twist, but it doesn't feel like a complete asspull, and the connections all make plenty of sense. It's an earned twist, which makes it a great one. D∴G, on the other hand, shows up completely out of nowhere in Chapter 4, and while the connections to them all make sense, they feel a lot more forced due to how late they were introduced. Understanding the Intelligence Division's plot felt fair and rewarding, because the clues were there at the start, whereas everything related to D∴G is withheld to the final 10 hours of the game. Their plot also felt a bit ridiculous for Trails standards; a coup is a lot more logical than brainwashing an entire population.
  • I'm not really sure who's the better comparison, but it doesn't really matter, because Richard and Weissman both kick the shit out of Guenter as antagonists. Richard, just like the Intelligence Division, is set up well beforehand, and while I thought they could have done a better job with him, he's still a great antagonist. Weissman, on the other hand, is a lot more shallow as a character, but his presence is so unabashedly evil and charismatic that it's hard not to love him as a villain, and he gets plenty of time to shine in SC. Guenter drops the ball in all of these areas: there's very little buildup for him as a character, his evil persona is rather boring and tropey, and he gets all of 15 minutes to justify himself as the main antagonist. It's impossible to get attached to him at all, especially considering how big of a heel turn he makes between his doctor persona and his crazy insane cult persona. It's not like there's a whole lot of room to improve him either, unlike Richard (who got some incredible development in SC and 3rd).

  • I may not care for Guenter as a character, but credit to the game for pulling a fast one on me, as I didn't see it coming at all. I really should have, considering he's pretty much just a bootleg Weissman/Alba, but I was way more suspicious of Dieter Crois and Grimwood. Still am, actually. The former ascending to mayor feels like a disaster waiting to happen, and the latter is just...there. It's too suspicious for my liking.
  • Lechter is still a goddamn treat to behold. Absolutely lost my shit when he showed up in Chapter 3, and I can't wait to see his shenanigans continue throughout the series. Kilika showing up was also an awesome surprise.
  • It's better than Sky FC, but Zero definitely has a few tropey and/or uncomfortable moments. Pretty disappointing, given that Sky SC and 3rd did a great job of scrubbing themselves clean after Sky FC indulged a bit too heavily in them.
  • They aren't terribly related, but I'm really interested to see what happens with Heiyue. Garcia aside (who was cool), Revache was pretty boring, but Cao and Heiyue have really piqued my interest. Can't imagine they just fade away, so their involvement in Azure has me intrigued.
  • I brought them up before, but I also want to see what happens with Noel and Wazy in Azure, given that they seemingly join as permanent party members. Have to imagine the SSS learns of Rixia's true identity as well, and I hope Dudley joins as a permanent member eventually.
  • KeA is adorable, but similarly with Renne, everyone's attachment to her feels a bit forced. It just happens so suddenly, and while I definitely understand the desire to protect her, everyone treating her as this magical panacea for everyone's problems felt a tad extreme.

Overall, I think I'd rank the games like this:
  1. Trails in the Sky the 3rd (absolutely love the anthology approach they took here, and the gameplay/bosses are fantastic)
  2. Trails in the Sky
  3. Trails from Zero
  4. Trails in the Sky SC (talked about my grievances in the main RPG thread)
But things could of course change over time. Can't wait for Azure.
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Great write up with tons of stuff I agree with and some I don't fully but even then I largely see where you are coming from! Having played the next five games already, I won't dive into a great bit here since I have a very full picture (so if I avoid topics you want to talk about, forgive me!) but I'll throw some Zero thoughts behind a spoiler tag. Super cool you are playing these games in order by the way. I went with the English release order of 1 > 2 > 6 > 7 > 3 > 8 > 4 > 9 > 5 by necessity using the Geofront fan translation for 4 and 5 as they released. Having/lacking knowledge that I wasn't/was supposed to have obviously impacted my opinion of these games, stories, and characters for better and for worse in unnatural ways, so I'm forever jealous of people who can go through as intended. (Incidentally why I'm so hyped for Reverie being the first game since Sky SC where I'll have all the game prior under my belt before playing it)


Definitely want to say the stuff with Tio is actually built up a good bit before the full explanation, but a lot of it is behind way off the beaten path conversations. There's a big optional one in the hospital with the head nurse and I forget where but some details that start giving good hints about her relationship with Guy. I know some you get if you choose her in path splits. I focused on Ellie on my first playthrough and focused on Tio this time. I love Zero's structure because you really come to care about Crossbell, but with the whole world constantly open there's so much room to miss things unless you are playing with a guide handy and even then my preferred one for Zero still missed things I kept an eye out for. Same deal with the path splits which is frustrating, but thankfully isn't too extreme here. Well I say that, but I have no idea what may or may not be shared for Randy if you pick him all the time which is frustrating.

Zero with the official release was a replay for me, so I definitely kept a good eye out for foreshadowing and I did know what characters/signs to look for. NISA largely kept, but did alter the Geofront script at key points. I don't have the two in front of me, but in the Geofront version whatever Guenther's opening line was made me incredibly suspicious of him right off the bat whereas it was far more neutral in the official version. I could definitely see him being more of a curveball in the official version. I liked in my replay reexperiencing the scene where he almost captured KeA early as he seemingly innocuously suggests having her stay at the hospital a few days to run tests and seeing the parts where's he subtly a little pushy and in other ways where he backs off.

Not for any future game reasons which I won't discuss if they exist or not, but I totally was expecting Renne in Crossbell and how her story played out because there was a not very good anime OVA for Trails in the Sky SC that released on Blu Ray in America years ago and featured parts of her story that...didn't exist in Sky SC. I was impressed how Renne's story in Zero continued off the story beat introduced in Sky The Third's final door. Between those two games you really get a full picture of the Cult and its operations.

Other stuff:

Heck yeah Nial is awesome! Also agree I really enjoyed Lechter and Killika returning in this game.

I enjoyed all of the optional party members in this game and always threw them on my team. I don't think I can say more without implying anything sadly.
 
xghost777 said:
Great write up with tons of stuff I agree with and some I don't fully but even then I largely see where you are coming from! Having played the next five games already, I won't dive into a great bit here since I have a very full picture (so if I avoid topics you want to talk about, forgive me!) but I'll throw some Zero thoughts behind a spoiler tag. Super cool you are playing these games in order by the way. I went with the English release order of 1 > 2 > 6 > 7 > 3 > 8 > 4 > 9 > 5 by necessity using the Geofront fan translation for 4 and 5 as they released. Having/lacking knowledge that I wasn't/was supposed to have obviously impacted my opinion of these games, stories, and characters for better and for worse in unnatural ways, so I'm forever jealous of people who can go through as intended. (Incidentally why I'm so hyped for Reverie being the first game since Sky SC where I'll have all the game prior under my belt before playing it)


Definitely want to say the stuff with Tio is actually built up a good bit before the full explanation, but a lot of it is behind way off the beaten path conversations. There's a big optional one in the hospital with the head nurse and I forget where but some details that start giving good hints about her relationship with Guy. I know some you get if you choose her in path splits. I focused on Ellie on my first playthrough and focused on Tio this time. I love Zero's structure because you really come to care about Crossbell, but with the whole world constantly open there's so much room to miss things unless you are playing with a guide handy and even then my preferred one for Zero still missed things I kept an eye out for. Same deal with the path splits which is frustrating, but thankfully isn't too extreme here. Well I say that, but I have no idea what may or may not be shared for Randy if you pick him all the time which is frustrating.

Zero with the official release was a replay for me, so I definitely kept a good eye out for foreshadowing and I did know what characters/signs to look for. NISA largely kept, but did alter the Geofront script at key points. I don't have the two in front of me, but in the Geofront version whatever Guenther's opening line was made me incredibly suspicious of him right off the bat whereas it was far more neutral in the official version. I could definitely see him being more of a curveball in the official version. I liked in my replay reexperiencing the scene where he almost captured KeA early as he seemingly innocuously suggests having her stay at the hospital a few days to run tests and seeing the parts where's he subtly a little pushy and in other ways where he backs off.

Not for any future game reasons which I won't discuss if they exist or not, but I totally was expecting Renne in Crossbell and how her story played out because there was a not very good anime OVA for Trails in the Sky SC that released on Blu Ray in America years ago and featured parts of her story that...didn't exist in Sky SC. I was impressed how Renne's story in Zero continued off the story beat introduced in Sky The Third's final door. Between those two games you really get a full picture of the Cult and its operations.

Other stuff:

Heck yeah Nial is awesome! Also agree I really enjoyed Lechter and Killika returning in this game.

I enjoyed all of the optional party members in this game and always threw them on my team. I don't think I can say more without implying anything sadly.
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  • Interesting that there's more Tio stuff that I missed. I unfortunately didn't really engage with Crossbell's citizens as much as I would've liked, so it's a shame that I missed out on that. She was probably the best non-Lloyd party member though, my issues mostly lie with how they handled Elie and Randy.
  • Renne showing up in Zero wasn't a surprise at all given how 3rd went, and I should stress that I really do like how they concluded that narrative thread. Her reaction to the Hayworths, and then finding a home with the Brights is incredibly sweet. My main problem there is that it very much still feels like a Sky plot thread, rather than being properly incorporated into Zero. Felt a tad bit forced for my liking.
  • In regards to the optional party members, I don't hate the implementation at all, especially since anyone on the bench still gets EXP. I mostly just don't understand why Noel was the most prominent one, at least in terms of time spent as a guest party member, given that she's incredibly flat as a character. Not bad or anything, she just has nothing of note to add, so it's weird that she got such special treatment. I also found it kinda strange that Wazy got the party member treatment over Wald, but Wazy is way more interesting so I sure as hell won't complain about that.
 
I'm pretty excited for Azure at this point, which I did not expect to be not too long ago. I really want to see how things play out and certain events happen. It also helps that the game isn't out until mid-March, so it'll be a decent bit after most of the other games I'm excited for early this year. Even if it'll probably end up being more of an April game since I have a LOT to play beforehand. But April is wide open, so that works! Azure will be a nice and very different game to play in the leadup to TotK.
 
Thunder84 said:
  • Interesting that there's more Tio stuff that I missed. I unfortunately didn't really engage with Crossbell's citizens as much as I would've liked, so it's a shame that I missed out on that. She was probably the best non-Lloyd party member though, my issues mostly lie with how they handled Elie and Randy.
  • Renne showing up in Zero wasn't a surprise at all given how 3rd went, and I should stress that I really do like how they concluded that narrative thread. Her reaction to the Hayworths, and then finding a home with the Brights is incredibly sweet. My main problem there is that it very much still feels like a Sky plot thread, rather than being properly incorporated into Zero. Felt a tad bit forced for my liking.
  • In regards to the optional party members, I don't hate the implementation at all, especially since anyone on the bench still gets EXP. I mostly just don't understand why Noel was the most prominent one, at least in terms of time spent as a guest party member, given that she's incredibly flat as a character. Not bad or anything, she just has nothing of note to add, so it's weird that she got such special treatment. I also found it kinda strange that Wazy got the party member treatment over Wald, but Wazy is way more interesting so I sure as hell won't complain about that.
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Yeah a big thing with Zero is that there are tons of details that all build toward big picture plot and character development and it's never obvious it's there and some of it even leads to hidden quests. Perhaps most infuriating since it is way out of the way, I don't know how often you stopped by the Rosenberg Doll Studio for example, but you can encounter Estelle and Joshua there in addition to Renne occasionally who incidentally also pops up around town a bit. Like the SSS totally has its own relationship with Renne that isn't really fleshed out if you just stick to the critical path. I think something to consider with characters like Renne in regards to this series in general, a lot of these characters stories extend beyond their main games. Definitely something to look forward to as you play the Trails games.

But yeah, in addition to the major NPCs like Wazy, Shizuku, Jona, Michel etc. there are NPCs connected to the main characters I'd check in with on each day like the casino owner, the factory owner, and some of the defense force members to get all of Randy's stuff for example. It's one of my favorite parts of the series that usually everyone matters, but in Zero at least with the world always open it's tedious at times to do full tours around the country each time the story/world advances. Definitely something to look into for a replay. Since you beat the game, I definitely made sure to check in on all of the characters who get involved in Mafia/Gnosia incidents for example. Really cool to follow those stories through and see how it all connects.
 
xghost777 said:
Yeah a big thing with Zero is that there are tons of details that all build toward big picture plot and character development and it's never obvious it's there and some of it even leads to hidden quests. Perhaps most infuriating since it is way out of the way, I don't know how often you stopped by the Rosenberg Doll Studio for example, but you can encounter Estelle and Joshua there in addition to Renne occasionally who incidentally also pops up around town a bit. Like the SSS totally has its own relationship with Renne that isn't really fleshed out if you just stick to the critical path. I think something to consider with characters like Renne in regards to this series in general, a lot of these characters stories extend beyond their main games. Definitely something to look forward to as you play the Trails games.

But yeah, in addition to the major NPCs like Wazy, Shizuku, Jona, Michel etc. there are NPCs connected to the main characters I'd check in with on each day like the casino owner, the factory owner, and some of the defense force members to get all of Randy's stuff for example. It's one of my favorite parts of the series that usually everyone matters, but in Zero at least with the world always open it's tedious at times to do full tours around the country each time the story/world advances. Definitely something to look into for a replay. Since you beat the game, I definitely made sure to check in on all of the characters who get involved in Mafia/Gnosia incidents for example. Really cool to follow those stories through and see how it all connects.
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Huh, interesting. Wasn't planning on doing a replay, but I might power through on easy mode if there's really that much extra content.

Do you know of any good guides for this type of stuff?
 
SammyJ9 said:
I'm pretty excited for Azure at this point, which I did not expect to be not too long ago. I really want to see how things play out and certain events happen. It also helps that the game isn't out until mid-March, so it'll be a decent bit after most of the other games I'm excited for early this year. Even if it'll probably end up being more of an April game since I have a LOT to play beforehand. But April is wide open, so that works! Azure will be a nice and very different game to play in the leadup to TotK.
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I'm also really looking forward to Azure even if for me its a replay. It has some of the highest highs in the series that'll be very fun to discuss and does a lot of cool and interesting things. Though it does have some of the lower lows three gross groping scenes :( actual groping, not like Zero's boob touch :(

I loved that this thread became the de facto ST, but I definitely want to make a proper ST for Azure since the interest is there. I won't go wild with pictures, but I want it to be a proper home nonetheless. I'll make sure to sign up in the ST thread and make it official.
 
Thunder84 said:
Huh, interesting. Wasn't planning on doing a replay, but I might power through on easy mode if there's really that much extra content.

Do you know of any good guides for this type of stuff?
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I used this one for Zero that covers a very thorough playthrough. If you just played through Zero, I'd most recommend holding off and take a break before Azure and just start being more thorough there. But if you did want to do it, there is also the extra new game + only dungeon I've never seen so there is a cool incentive. Given the way this series works and with the Crossbell games especially, I feel no shame in checking against a guide for missables before big story advances.

The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero Walkthrough & Guide - PC - By BumpMaster - GameFAQs

For The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero on the PC, Walkthrough by BumpMaster.
gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Like I said though, this won't cover everything, but you will get all of the bigger interactions. It also has a guide to make sure you can see all three final bonding events in one playthrough.
 
I decided to pick this game up today and now I stumble onto this thread! Can't wait to play it tonight, it will be my first dive into the series. I'm glad to get confirmation in the OP that it's indeed a good starting point. Unfortunately I always feel the need to start at the very beginning with game series even when there aren't any story concerns. LoH having story arcs spanning multiple games really made me shy away from getting in. No more!
 
Sahasrahla said:
I decided to pick this game up today and now I stumble onto this thread! Can't wait to play it tonight, it will be my first dive into the series. I'm glad to get confirmation in the OP that it's indeed a good starting point. Unfortunately I always feel the need to start at the very beginning with game series even when there aren't any story concerns. LoH having story arcs spanning multiple games really made me shy away from getting in. No more!
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Just as a heads up, there are a few characters and one particular plot thread that is very much a direct continuation of the Trails in the Sky trilogy. Not fully understanding said plot thread won't hurt your enjoyment of the game, but I'd say it's still important to be aware of its Sky origins, so that you won't feel like you missed something important in Zero.
 
Thunder84 said:
Just as a heads up, there are a few characters and one particular plot thread that is very much a direct continuation of the Trails in the Sky trilogy. Not fully understanding said plot thread won't hurt your enjoyment of the game, but I'd say it's still important to be aware of its Sky origins, so that you won't feel like you missed something important in Zero.
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Thanks for letting me know!

Really enjoying the game so far. It is indeed very wordy, but I knew that beforehand lol. The combat system seems right down my alley. Itching to go right back into the Geofront after completing the first mission.

Just pre-ordered Azure too.
 
Thunder84 said:
Just as a heads up, there are a few characters and one particular plot thread that is very much a direct continuation of the Trails in the Sky trilogy. Not fully understanding said plot thread won't hurt your enjoyment of the game, but I'd say it's still important to be aware of its Sky origins, so that you won't feel like you missed something important in Zero.
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As someone who didn't have that background, I don't think it hurt the game all that much. There's really only one or two scenes that you really feel like you're missing something (the main one being at the very end of the game). Definitely would have been better to have the Sky trilogy under my belt, but it's certainly not a deal breaker.
 
SammyJ9 said:
As someone who didn't have that background, I don't think it hurt the game all that much. There's really only one or two scenes that you really feel like you're missing something (the main one being at the very end of the game). Definitely would have been better to have the Sky trilogy under my belt, but it's certainly not a deal breaker.
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I know, that wasn't my intention. I still think it's important to know ahead of time though, so that you don't mistakenly think that you missed something from earlier in the game.
 
Since this was brought up, it’s very much a feature of the series that there are returning characters and continued plot lines across subseries (for main characters, side characters, and even NPCs) since it all takes place in the same world over a relatively short period of time. In an ideal world yeah it helps to have every prior game under your belt, but there actually is quite a bit of things off the beaten path where the SSS (the heroes of this game) can have more interactions themselves with this character / plotline to the extent they form their own relationship with them. They and adjacent characters are around town and other areas at differing points in the game and it even culminates with a hidden quest if you are most thorough. I generally feel comfortable recommending Zero as a good starting place for those interested because it is still complete in itself in this regard. The SSS encounters this character and a few others (the latter you might not guess are returning) and get an abridged version of their place in the world that’s enough for their relationship with them as the SSS are meeting them for the first time. You can go back and get that richer understanding if you are interested, but it’s not required to understand what’s happening and there are more details within the game still for those interested.

The other, as I mentioned in the OP, is that Zero also does not end with a cliffhanger and you are free to move forward or backward or just end your journey there. More Sky characters appear in Azure (and in multiple games beyond) in varying ways they don’t in Zero so in my eyes it definitely pays to go backwards if you enjoyed Zero, but Azure is ostensibly most about the characters in Zero still so you can complete the duology and end there again if you so choose. I don’t think this is true ultimately for Trails of Cold Steel, the other alternative entry point, which ends on a cliffhanger that pulls you directly into Cold Steel II which does ultimately directly spell out multiple huge reveals in prior games. It doesn’t invite you to play prior games quite the same way which I think is especially unfortunate for where the series goes beyond that.
 
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It’s on sale on the eShop right now. I guess I should try it out, shouldn’t I? It’s gonna be the first time I play a game in this series.
 
I started the game yesterday, I had no intention to do so right now but for whatever reason when I was about to go to bed I kind of wanted to play another RPG before Octopath 2 hits and opted between Trails and World Ends With You and grabbed them from the shelf, as I couldnt find my touchpen which usually is by the bed I opted for Trails.

I have never played any games in this franchise before so I didnt really know what to expect, all I knew was that this was the best way to get in to the game without having to play the very first one. So yeah I was kind of surprised when the game seemed to start right in the middle of something hah. But that turned out well..

Short impressions after my first hour or so - Writing seems cool, modern and quirky( game might be heavy on the dialogue?), nice looking and running, battles seems to be fun also. Though I must say, looking in to the menus when new to the game and a bit tired.. was very scary, that's a lot of stuff going on. And maybe I was a bit too tired right before shutting down last night, but I couldnt find a way to save?

Promising start, see if it grabs me,.
 
Mbolibombo said:
I started the game yesterday, I had no intention to do so right now but for whatever reason when I was about to go to bed I kind of wanted to play another RPG before Octopath 2 hits and opted between Trails and World Ends With You and grabbed them from the shelf, as I couldnt find my touchpen which usually is by the bed I opted for Trails.

I have never played any games in this franchise before so I didnt really know what to expect, all I knew was that this was the best way to get in to the game without having to play the very first one. So yeah I was kind of surprised when the game seemed to start right in the middle of something hah. But that turned out well..

Short impressions after my first hour or so - Writing seems cool, modern and quirky( game might be heavy on the dialogue?), nice looking and running, battles seems to be fun also. Though I must say, looking in to the menus when new to the game and a bit tired.. was very scary, that's a lot of stuff going on. And maybe I was a bit too tired right before shutting down last night, but I couldnt find a way to save?

Promising start, see if it grabs me,.
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Thankfully there’s autosaves for your situation and in a worst case turbo mode (ZR or LR, I forget) and holding B to fast forward dialogue, but yeah you can manually save at anytime provided you aren’t in a cutscene. IIRC it’s the bottom main menu option (System?) and then again iirc the top option in that should clearly be marked Save. You’ll get used to the menus, they are pretty straightforward for JRPG standards and have largely useful info. Once you learn it too, you’ll be set for the series basically too.

The Options tab is a little intimidating in this release since Durante and his team added a ton of graphical options for their Switch port, but you can play around with that whenever or ignore it. The new patch is out today incidentally that added a water shimmer effect.
 
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The patch is on the switch version now. Thats cool cause I was planning on going back a bit before Azure
 
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