Fun Club The Writer’s Tavern

[Koren Lesthe]

NOTE : There wasn’t a « Books » in the Lifestye tags so I took « Fun Club » ^^

Hi everyone, for people who don’t know me, I’m Koren Lesthe / Sully McGuire on Twitter (both are nicknames).
I’m a french writer and I wanted to talk about… well, writing. Off course I’d love to talk about the stories I’m working on (none of them are published yet, one of them WAS but I had to cut the contract with my publisher after he did some sketchy things) and off course, yours too.

The thing is, I‘m not a professional writer (also I’m french so my english isn’t perfect) and I did not follow literature at school (went for the IT path, ended up with teachers that ruined my motivation for studies and quit school, yay). I’m well aware of my capabilities and to be honest, quite scared to go to a publisher.


Scalded cat fears hot water (french proverb)

I got a publisher in late 2010. A few months later, he published my first book, Denaris I: Les Seigneurs d’Yseïr and a few weeks after that, I had to ask my publisher to remove and destroy every single copie he released (I still own the one he offered me) because he decided to publish the unfinished manuscript instead of the much more advanced one I was working on -but still unfinished anyway-.

It took me exactly 5 years (from 2011 to 2016), while having my life and main job, to « fix it » myself because my publisher pretended he had someone to correct my manuscript but there was no one, nobody was proof reading my work (he thought that unlike the school books he was publishing, heroic fantasy would automatically fly off the shelves, even with « a few mistakes here and there ». And in early 2017, one month before the release of the Switch, I opened my « finished » script and felt something horrible : I wanted to redo it from scratch. And the more I looked at it, the more I wanted to stop writing all together and never open a text editor in my life.


Last night James Stephanie Sterling (& DrillQueen) saved my life

What saved me from the incoming burnout is, ironically, the fact that I started my book with way too much projects in mind, like having 18 volumes, six for each story arc. I was young and naïve when I started working on it, but while cancelling imaginary 14 volumes to only keep four on a single arc, I wanted to scrap some ideas and characters from the cancelled arcs. But I couldn’t start, I threw multiple drafts and characters at the bin, I had nothing to link the characters to the first book or even making this story their own. Nothing worked. I was about to stop writing for good.

Then I watched Stephanie Sterling on YouTube and thank God for them, I heard that lovely « Born Depressed » theme song they use for the opening of The Jimqusition. I decided to learn a bit more abour DrillQueen and then I saw the cover of their album. And instantly, it was like I had the answer to my writing problem. Yes I wanted to write something new, not necessarily linked to the first book, but seeing the photo of DrillQueen gave me lots and lots of ideas for my character, and her theme song « Born Depressed » did wonders to motivate me. Obviously I added both of them to the credits ^^.

Even the « This is what we look like » song made me think of a character reveal with the main one screaming at the public « This is what we look like ! » when I had friends asking me « Why is the main character a black woman ? ». I’ve been working on this new story for a long time and I’m only like 33% done with the first volume but I can tell my skill have improved a ton. So much so that it is still scary to look at my previous book without wanting to redo it from scratch (I even have a « Project ReDone » folder in case I start).

Then I played -a bit late- to Tales of Zestiria on PC and the main theme also sparkled in my mind.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a long first post. I already talked about this on my Tumblr and will keep my blog updated (Koren Lesthe too, I follow lots of furries but my blog is PG, no adult stuff). I would love to hear / read about you, your stories, your inspirations (I haven’t listed them all btw), your trials and tribulations… maybe we could give each others some advices.

EDIT :
Well apparently I had to proof read my own post because my memories about dates are like gruyère ^^;

 

[WestEgg]

Glad to see a writing thread on here! About 13 years ago I had a wild dream that I started building into a novel. Unfortunately life got in the way as it tends to, and even worse, my novel idea ended up being quite similar to Stranger Things when it aired, which was a bit deflating since I felt now my work would be seen as unoriginal if it ever did get published. But lately I’ve been thinking of throwing those doubts to the side and just continuing on anyway.

 

[kvetcha]

Glad to see a writing thread on here! About 13 years ago I had a wild dream that I started building into a novel. Unfortunately life got in the way as it tends to, and even worse, my novel idea ended up being quite similar to Stranger Things when it aired, which was a bit deflating since I felt now my work would be seen as unoriginal if it ever did get published. But lately I’ve been thinking of throwing those doubts to the side and just continuing on anyway.

Don't let it stop you! Think of ways you can differentiate your work without losing what it is that drew you to it in the first place.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Glad to see a writing thread on here! About 13 years ago I had a wild dream that I started building into a novel. Unfortunately life got in the way as it tends to, and even worse, my novel idea ended up being quite similar to Stranger Things when it aired, which was a bit deflating since I felt now my work would be seen as unoriginal if it ever did get published. But lately I’ve been thinking of throwing those doubts to the side and just continuing on anyway.

Well, I had these issues too. I've been inspired by G.J. Arnaud's La Compagnie des Glaces (The Ice Company) because of a plot point involving mankind's history that have been forgotten / have a massive hole that nobody remembers. Starting from this point I first wanted it to be in a SF setting but then went for an heroic fantasy with scifi elements. The thing is, I started writing with almost 0 definied timeline. I wrote as ideas came.

It was a disaster and I lost so much time because of this. It gave me numerous lessons for the book I'm working on right now. There are authors who can do an amazing job without having anything planned in advance but it didn't do me any favor when I went back and rewrote the entire first volume ^^:

Since every stories in the world have been already told, why not try do it it anyway but add your own touch to the subject ? It doesn't need to be a massive twist, sometimes having characters your readers can relate on is enough to make a difference.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Also, being like a massively popular thing isn’t exactly a barrier to publication. Far from it, if the way the entire book aisle at Target transformed into black-covered Twilight-alikes (and a few years later, into black-covered Fifty Shades-alikes) is to be believed.

Tell the story you want to tell, the story you believe in, without worrying too much about being original. Even Stranger Things wasn’t the first Stranger Things-style story; it draws from a variety of sources and more or less wears its influences on its sleeve.

 

[neil]

I work as a copywriter. Sometime I write box text and store descriptions for games for the Nintendo Switch (but not ones that anyone here would think are cool)

 

[WestEgg]

Thanks for the encouragement folks. I started writing out a pitch to give you all an idea of the story, and after about five paragraphs I feel like I confirmed to myself the idea is more fleshed out than I gave myself credit for. Condensed, basically it involves a boy and his friends in the midwestern US early 2000s, a ghost town, the conflict between two seemingly immortal priests who both know more than they let on, a hidden parallel world, time displaced Civil War soldiers, and a monster Steam Engine. It all fits together somehow, I promise.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Thanks for the encouragement folks. I started writing out a pitch to give you all an idea of the story, and after about five paragraphs I feel like I confirmed to myself the idea is more fleshed out than I gave myself credit for. Condensed, basically it involves a boy and his friends in the midwestern US early 2000s, a ghost town, the conflict between two seemingly immortal priests who both know more than they let on, a hidden parallel world, time displaced Civil War soldiers, and a monster Steam Engine. It all fits together somehow, I promise.

That's intriguing !

 

[Phosphorescent Skeleton]

Currently co-writing a visual novel, and we're getting very close to having a first draft finished. When I was a kid I always wanted to be a writer and I finally feel that I've become one. It is sometimes very difficult and frustrating to me, but it is also very rewarding.

 

[YoboD]

I always struggle when it comes to the planning stage. I’ll get inspiration for something I want to write, and then I’ll get so bogged down in planning that I get too frustrated before I even get the chance to actually write anything. At the moment I’ve switched to writing at least the scenes I have in my head so I can get a sense of the world and characters before trying to outline everything, and so far that’s working a lot better for me.

 

[IsisStormDragon]

I found once I stopped worrying if what I was writing had already been done and focused on writing what I enjoy writing/want to see more of, it became easier to write. Well, brain weirdness/executive dysfunction aside.

Finally achieved a lifelong dream and self-published a short novella this year; working on its sequel. I like writing fantasy and scifi, primarily, and I have Too Many Projects with various tones (I enjoy both light-hearted and darker, more serious fiction and like to write both at different times). I want to get back to updating some of my fanfiction that have been backburner'd, too. I wrote a Metroid Prime reimagining for a Camp NaNoWriMo event and I imagine Remastered will be the fuel I need to actually edit it.

 

[afternoon delight]

For progress to be made, one must write daily. Sounds daunting at first but you'll love it and grow accustomed to its sweet sweet familiarity.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Currently co-writing a visual novel, and we're getting very close to having a first draft finished. When I was a kid I always wanted to be a writer and I finally feel that I've become one. It is sometimes very difficult and frustrating to me, but it is also very rewarding.

Congrats ! When I'm in my good days (quite hard lately but I'll get better), I feel the same when I look at what I wrote before closing the word app.

I always struggle when it comes to the planning stage. I’ll get inspiration for something I want to write, and then I’ll get so bogged down in planning that I get too frustrated before I even get the chance to actually write anything. At the moment I’ve switched to writing at least the scenes I have in my head so I can get a sense of the world and characters before trying to outline everything, and so far that’s working a lot better for me.

Same here. I did plan most of what I intended for my new book but when I looked at it last week, I realized that I added a lot of things and unplanned events & characters. And currently I'm struggling because I got new ideas for one the main antagonist.

I've been watching Hbomberguy's Deus Ex video A LOT because a lot of his points resonated with me about writing, especially what the team at EIDOS started doing with their paper wall of "this is what the game will be and we won't change anything" until they realized they didn't had any boss to fight. Or that they didin't planned for the player to have the choice of sparing the life of each bosses, or that some character might be involved with something, or other ideas they got but it was too late because the lead said "we don't change what's on the wall".

It can be scary. In my free time, I try to link the new idea to everything it can involve, try see if it makes sense, how characters will react.

I found once I stopped worrying if what I was writing had already been done and focused on writing what I enjoy writing/want to see more of, it became easier to write. Well, brain weirdness/executive dysfunction aside.

Finally achieved a lifelong dream and self-published a short novella this year; working on its sequel. I like writing fantasy and scifi, primarily, and I have Too Many Projects with various tones (I enjoy both light-hearted and darker, more serious fiction and like to write both at different times). I want to get back to updating some of my fanfiction that have been backburner'd, too. I wrote a Metroid Prime reimagining for a Camp NaNoWriMo event and I imagine Remastered will be the fuel I need to actually edit it.

Congratulations ! I've been thinking of self-publishing too for a LONG time and I would love to learn a thing or two about this, if you have time ^^.

 

[Gay Bowser]

I always struggle when it comes to the planning stage. I’ll get inspiration for something I want to write, and then I’ll get so bogged down in planning that I get too frustrated before I even get the chance to actually write anything. At the moment I’ve switched to writing at least the scenes I have in my head so I can get a sense of the world and characters before trying to outline everything, and so far that’s working a lot better for me.

If it’s a source of struggle, you don’t actually need to have a planning stage or outlines! I know there’s a whole cottage industry out there promoting worldbuilding techniques and outlining strategies as How To Be A Real Writer, but not everybody writes that way. Maybe you’re more improvisational and writing “by the seat of your pants” is more natural to you. That’s just as valid a way of writing as any other. Stephen King is famously a “seat-of-the-pants-er.”

You definitely don’t want to kill your inspiration by trying to optimally structure it. Writing a story isn’t like writing an essay, where you’re supposed to spend the majority of your time figuring out what your point of view is and why and then organizing your support and figuring out how to guide the reader through it in an elegant, convincing way. A story is about feelings and characters behaving like people, and for some writers the way they get their characters to behave like people is by not trying to come up with a plan and instead just let the story go where it goes.

Improvisational storytelling is just as valid as any other way of storytelling, with its own skill set that you’ll develop with practice — just as improv comedians learn the subtle rules for what leads to good improv comedy, you’ll get better at recognizing opportunities to add a sense of unity to your story and which story threads have potential for interesting arcs. Many improvisational storytellers, even expert ones, do describe sometimes flailing around a bit at the start of the story as they figure out what it is and creating some material that needs to be cut, but that’s time you would have spent creating an outline that nobody would ever see either.

If the whole outlining process is a consistent stumbling-block that saps your inspiration, my advice would be to just try not doing it. It sounds like you’ve started doing that already, by just writing out the scenes you know before switching to the outlining stage, but maybe you don’t have to do the whole “switching to the outlining stage” part?

 

[weemadarthur]

If y’all want a group to talk to feel free to join this Discord group, which started back on neogaf years ago.

Join the We Write, Sometimes Discord Server!

Check out the We Write, Sometimes community on Discord - hang out with 234 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

discord.gg

 

[IsisStormDragon]

Congratulations ! I've been thinking of self-publishing too for a LONG time and I would love to learn a thing or two about this, if you have time ^^.

Thanks!

I can't speak for anything like graphic novels or audiobooks, since I've only really researched digital and print books (my novella is only an ebook because it was too short for the print-on-demand services I looked into). But there's a lot of guides and resources out there that make things easier. I ended up going with Draft2Digital to try to reach as many storefronts as possible, but it's far from the only option. With them I keep the rights to my book and can sell it on places they don't offer, like itch.io, which I've seen several self-published authors do. Which is another thing: some self-publishing platforms want exclusive rights and offer perks in return. It's up to you if you think the perks are worth it.

The biggest hurdle with self-publishing, at least in my experience, does tend to be money. Whereas traditional publishing would get your book edited, formatted, and with a cover, you'll have to foot the bill yourself on all of these if you can't do them yourself (Draft2Digital has an automated process that formats your book for you for free at least, but if you've got images it takes a bit more work). The other big hurdle is marketing. If you've already got a sizable following, I assume it's not so bad. If you don't it can take time to build an audience, especially with The Almighty Algorithm of social media.

But while self-publishing can be pricey, you get to tell your story how you want to, so that's a point in its favor. I'm still figuring a lot of it out as I go along but I'm happy with going this route, at least for some projects. I've got some novel ideas that I think I might be able to pitch to a big publisher, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Thanks!

I can't speak for anything like graphic novels or audiobooks, since I've only really researched digital and print books (my novella is only an ebook because it was too short for the print-on-demand services I looked into). But there's a lot of guides and resources out there that make things easier. I ended up going with Draft2Digital to try to reach as many storefronts as possible, but it's far from the only option. With them I keep the rights to my book and can sell it on places they don't offer, like itch.io, which I've seen several self-published authors do. Which is another thing: some self-publishing platforms want exclusive rights and offer perks in return. It's up to you if you think the perks are worth it.

The biggest hurdle with self-publishing, at least in my experience, does tend to be money. Whereas traditional publishing would get your book edited, formatted, and with a cover, you'll have to foot the bill yourself on all of these if you can't do them yourself (Draft2Digital has an automated process that formats your book for you for free at least, but if you've got images it takes a bit more work). The other big hurdle is marketing. If you've already got a sizable following, I assume it's not so bad. If you don't it can take time to build an audience, especially with The Almighty Algorithm of social media.

But while self-publishing can be pricey, you get to tell your story how you want to, so that's a point in its favor. I'm still figuring a lot of it out as I go along but I'm happy with going this route, at least for some projects. I've got some novel ideas that I think I might be able to pitch to a big publisher, but I'm not holding my breath.

Thank you for your answer !

I remember back in the 2003 when I thought I finished my first book (lol, twenty years later I want to redo it from scratch), I went to ask for a print of at least 100 books. The guy who made the estimate read my manuscript and loved, even saying that it was at "Harry Potter's level" which I was reading back then (long, long before I knew about how horrible rowling is).

I read all the HP books available multiple times back then so I knew I wasn't on the same level at all. In fact, when he told me that, I thought "It can't be. I'm not that good, and I know it". So I did not go through the printing process and restarted the book for the first time. Maybe he was sincere (and liked some of the parts like the characters and the plot), maybe he wasn't, maybe he didn't liked HP and saw something I didn't, but it made me want to be sure about my skills.

Turns out I may have done the correct choice because oh my god was it bad (I still have the OG 2003 script somewhere, it's awful) but I regret nothing about it. It made me open my eyes, it made me think "I might be able to do it, there is something in this. I like these characters, some parts made me tear up, there's a part of me inside -including the fact that the main character is gay-" (*).

Auto publishing can be scary, indeed. But I believe I will give a try, after a good reflexion.

I've seen some books on itch.io (as a gay furry, I'm loving this platform more and more), the thing is ; since I'm french, my stories are, for now, only in french so I don't know if it is the right platform (well since there is LGBT characters AND furries, somehow it clearly is).

I'll study the case a bit more before taking the next step.

(*) I did met a publisher who straight up said "I'm sorry but the two main characters are gay and one of them is black and in a medieval-fantasy ? That's a big no, this will never work". It hurt back then, but despite this, I didn't changed anything about the two main characters.