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Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread

Finally beat it, and absolutely loved the game, though I am left wishing the game gave more answers.

Like…what’s up with the Master Sword in the ancient past? Not the second instance of it that had been sent back in time after being destroyed in the future—I mean the original instance of the Master Sword in that time that should exist dormant somewhere. Why did no one seem to know about it or where it was? It’s especially odd since assuming the Forgotten Temple is what had become of the Sealed Temple from Skyward Sword, the Master Sword should have originally been there. And since that back room of the Forgotten Temple where the Secret Stones originally were that was hidden in BotW was shown in a memory, we know the sages had already been there, of course. So they should clearly at least know about, if not have the Master Sword back then…yet it’s seemingly completely unknown to everyone besides Zelda, for some reason.

Speaking of Zelda, if she’s a distant relative of Sonia and Rauru…why wasn’t their kid shown? Surely they had to have had a child already that would carry on their lineage. It’s probably just supposed to be implied that they exist but are just never shown, but then why not even mention them?

And then there’s Ganondorf. Why was he able to become so powerful—enough to overpower all of the sages—just by stealing a single Secret Stone? There’s just no explanation given at all for that. It can’t be the Triforce either, as it seems to still exist within Zelda in whole as it did in BotW, though neither game acknowledges it at all. That’s yet another oddity that goes unexplained.

Also, while they go unnamed, I assume the ancient sages have the same names as their OoT counterparts; Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru. (Not sure about the Rito; could be Medli as Vah Medoh seems to get its name from, but since the Rito sage is male I’m not so sure.) That would explain the mentions of Ruto and Nabooru despite the events of OoT clearly not taking place in this timeline.



Finally, that brings me to timeline stuff. Leading up to the release I believed that BotW and TotK took place on the Child Timeline, then thought that it had to somehow be the Downfall Timeline after learning that the Imprisoning War is mentioned, until finally realizing that no, actually, this has to be an entirely new timeline altogether. The question is, is it supposed to connect to one of the other timelines in some way, or is it just supposed to be its own separate continuity entirely?

I personally believe (and hope) that it’s the former, with this game taking place in a branching timeline from Skyward Sword. Specifically, the timeline where Link defeats Demise in Hylia’s era and then leaves to his original timeline. This would be a timeline where Demise was already destroyed in the distant past, so the full events of SS would have no reason to happen, and it would make sense for things to eventually play out very differently. The main issue being that SS’s time travel is kinda…weird and contradictory to itself at times, sometimes presenting itself as a closed loop but not always, and honestly just thinking about it makes my head hurt, lol. But inconsistencies with time travel aside (that was also a thing in OoT to a degree, after all), BotW/TotK would fit into that timeline very well.

It explains why Hylia is seemingly still around as a goddess in BotW/TotK despite becoming mortal in SS, for example; rather than choosing to become mortal thousands of years later in an effort to use the Triforce to completely eradicate Demise, Demise is instead defeated early by Link with the Master Sword, so Hylia could have stayed a goddess in that timeline, though weakened—possibly bound to the Goddess Statue? I always thought it was weird that Hylia was apparently still around as a goddess in BotW since that shouldn’t be possible after she became mortal in SS…but BotW/TotK taking place in a timeline where she didn’t become mortal finally explains that!

It could also somehow explain the weirdness of the Triforce in BotW/TotK, because it would have presumably stayed hidden by Hylia in that timeline…and somehow found its way into the bloodline of Royal Family (likely by Hylia’s doing), though its true nature left unknown. That would explain why the Triforce is never mentioned and this timeline’s parallel of OoT has no conflict over the Triforce, but the Secret Stones instead. There are other things that make a lot of sense with this timeline, too, but it’s late and I’m tired and can’t think super well right now, lol.

I guess the one big question is…what’s up with the Zonai in the other timeline(s)? Why don’t they seem to have been around at all? Though a lot of the designs from the Four Swords trilogy games, particularly The Minish Cap, do bear a striking resemblance to Zonai designs, like the eye symbol that’s commonly associated with Vaati (but not exclusively, as it’s also used for ancient artifacts unrelated to Vaati like the Dark Mirror), so perhaps they were still around there in some capacity…
 
@xaszatm

The two technologies should have no connection. They're separated by thousands of years. I didn't know about the construct that sold ancient blades, but now I'm even less happy with the story. Robbie created the ancient arrows according to BOTW. How would some construct just randomly know how to create them?

Overall tho my problem is just how hard it is to find weapons in the game, and that there's less overall weapons. Finding a great flameblade in BOTW was phenomenal, and reading that it was forged by ancient Goron blacksmiths, was even cooler. I wanted more of that in ToTK. More new things with new descriptions but the game actively wants you to fuse stuff, and it's just not fun imo. The novelty wore off immediately, and it doesn't work as a replacement to the genuine sense of discovery from BOTW. At the very least some late game means of de-rusting your weapons would have been nice, but can't have that otherwise players wouldnt use the fuse ability. Thus since we don't have new weapons or a means of de-rusting old ones I really just find myself missing the absent ones.

As for Gdorf, Impa straight up says that the Calamity is the Demon King, they're the same thing in BOTW/ToTK eyes, which like you can say, "oh history got corrupted or whatever, and all versions of Ganondorf are the same in the eyes of modern Hyruleans" but like that is speculative and really just doesn't address the fact that OOT Ganondorf is Ganondorf, there really shouldn't be more than one. It's frankly just messy, and a lot of the personal emotional connection I had playing BOTW isn't there once it was revealed that Calamity Ganon was TotK Ganondorf. Calamity Ganon being some mindless form that is what Ganondorf became after such a long period since OOT is just more interesting than it just being something connected to the Upheaval Dorf.
I feel like you're taking what I say and finding the absolute worst ways to interpret them. The construct in found in Mineru's old Construct Factory (it appears after you finish the Spirit Temple Boss). Mineru in one of the memories even explicitly notes that she can reverse-engineer some of the technology of the Purah Pad (in this case its teleportation capabilities) which is why all Zonai temples can be teleported to despite you still using Sheikah tech. So it isn't some random construct, but one familiar to both Mineru and Zelda, the two experts of the time on Zonai and Shiekah tech. But also, is it that hard to believe that their technology would have some basis of origin? It's not like tech changes completely from civilization to civilization. Both would have to have some point of origin that anyone would have to extrapolate from.
 
Having just beat the final boss, I wasn't a big fan of how they made it entirely gloom-based. I managed to get by thanks to having a bunch of Sundelions stocked up and cooked some in the hallway before Ganondorf, but man that still took some work. I also ended up fusing Fierce Deity's Sword with the Master Sword, but with enough parrying and 3 broken shields, I won. I had cooked a bunch of food and barely used any of it, but I won! Someone on the development team definitely took it personally when people said Calamity Ganon was too easy, this was the hardest final boss I ever played in a Zelda game. But I think next time it won't be as bad now that I know to stock up on gloom food.

Final sequence with the dragons was great. Ending was all really nice, with the dive of course - I got chills! And the epilogue got me emotional as well. Absolutely loved how the Sages were implemented into this game, like an RPG party. Got emotional at Mineru's farewell and when Zelda's theme played in the epilogue.

I liked the final quest overall (especially the part where I build a giant robot and it joins my party), but part of me feels like the pacing wasn't as good as BOTW where it's split between a handful of dungeons and exploration points, whereas in the last game you could just charge into the castle. Honestly, this game made me want to replay BOTW because I haven't played through it since 2017 so I'd be curious to compare.

Anyway, overall, absolutely loved the game. Issues here and there for sure, but I put in 90 hours after two weeks, which is something I basically never do. And I plan to explore much more, but I think I will take a break. But I'm certain this will be in my top ten favorite games of all time. As someone who liked BOTW, but never quite loved it, this game blew me away. Definitely a game where I wish I could play it blind again, but I imagine I will be playing it for a long time.
 
The way I did Ganondorf was with x3 bow and bunch of Gibdo bones, I am insanely bad at flurry rush timing so there was no way I could so that only with dodging his attacks.
 
The way I did Ganondorf was with x3 bow and bunch of Gibdo bones, I am insanely bad at flurry rush timing so there was no way I could so that only with dodging his attacks.
I am also bad at flurry rush but I managed to get a lot of damage in thanks to parries. His second form has different timing for parries though so it takes some trial and error. Like I said, ran through 3 whole damn shields during that fight.
 
I always find so funny when people say they don't use recall at all. I've lost count of how many times I've cheated a dungeon using that ability, and it is always so useful when you let something fall from the sky or from a cliff. Like, if you don't use it that's ok, but it's not the game's fault. The hability works well, is perfectly integrated and it has a good sinergy with both Ultrahand and Ascend.
 
So I just finished all 152 sanctuaries and got the reward (and as a Furry I'm loving it).

This is him, right ?
He%CC%81ros-1.jpg
 
Use this sentence to make Zelda/Zelink fans cry:

Dive to Zelda R (hold)


Edit: Additionally, you can also use "warm, loving embrace", which has already proven itself as fan favorite within the community.
 
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That would explain the mentions of Ruto and Nabooru despite the events of OoT clearly not taking place in this timeline.
Both BotW and now TotK mention the events of OoT, which do not match up with what we see in any of the flashbacks. It still happened.
 
Quoted by: Tye
1
Any tips on where to find the sick armour with the horns from the final trailer?

Also: this game is hecka fun. Not sure if it's as much of a piece of art as BotW is, but it's so much fun.
 
So I just finished all 152 sanctuaries and got the reward (and as a Furry I'm loving it).

This is him, right ?
He%CC%81ros-1.jpg
This what makes me think the game takes place far after the end of the child timeline. Clearly a new Hyrule was founded after the zonai arrived, and the "ancient" events here were still in the future of what we know. Not too surprising since we know it was already over 10k years in the future.
 
0
Finally beat it, and absolutely loved the game, though I am left wishing the game gave more answers.

Like…what’s up with the Master Sword in the ancient past? Not the second instance of it that had been sent back in time after being destroyed in the future—I mean the original instance of the Master Sword in that time that should exist dormant somewhere. Why did no one seem to know about it or where it was? It’s especially odd since assuming the Forgotten Temple is what had become of the Sealed Temple from Skyward Sword, the Master Sword should have originally been there. And since that back room of the Forgotten Temple where the Secret Stones originally were that was hidden in BotW was shown in a memory, we know the sages had already been there, of course. So they should clearly at least know about, if not have the Master Sword back then…yet it’s seemingly completely unknown to everyone besides Zelda, for some reason.

Speaking of Zelda, if she’s a distant relative of Sonia and Rauru…why wasn’t their kid shown? Surely they had to have had a child already that would carry on their lineage. It’s probably just supposed to be implied that they exist but are just never shown, but then why not even mention them?

And then there’s Ganondorf. Why was he able to become so powerful—enough to overpower all of the sages—just by stealing a single Secret Stone? There’s just no explanation given at all for that. It can’t be the Triforce either, as it seems to still exist within Zelda in whole as it did in BotW, though neither game acknowledges it at all. That’s yet another oddity that goes unexplained.

Also, while they go unnamed, I assume the ancient sages have the same names as their OoT counterparts; Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru. (Not sure about the Rito; could be Medli as Vah Medoh seems to get its name from, but since the Rito sage is male I’m not so sure.) That would explain the mentions of Ruto and Nabooru despite the events of OoT clearly not taking place in this timeline.



Finally, that brings me to timeline stuff. Leading up to the release I believed that BotW and TotK took place on the Child Timeline, then thought that it had to somehow be the Downfall Timeline after learning that the Imprisoning War is mentioned, until finally realizing that no, actually, this has to be an entirely new timeline altogether. The question is, is it supposed to connect to one of the other timelines in some way, or is it just supposed to be its own separate continuity entirely?

I personally believe (and hope) that it’s the former, with this game taking place in a branching timeline from Skyward Sword. Specifically, the timeline where Link defeats Demise in Hylia’s era and then leaves to his original timeline. This would be a timeline where Demise was already destroyed in the distant past, so the full events of SS would have no reason to happen, and it would make sense for things to eventually play out very differently. The main issue being that SS’s time travel is kinda…weird and contradictory to itself at times, sometimes presenting itself as a closed loop but not always, and honestly just thinking about it makes my head hurt, lol. But inconsistencies with time travel aside (that was also a thing in OoT to a degree, after all), BotW/TotK would fit into that timeline very well.

It explains why Hylia is seemingly still around as a goddess in BotW/TotK despite becoming mortal in SS, for example; rather than choosing to become mortal thousands of years later in an effort to use the Triforce to completely eradicate Demise, Demise is instead defeated early by Link with the Master Sword, so Hylia could have stayed a goddess in that timeline, though weakened—possibly bound to the Goddess Statue? I always thought it was weird that Hylia was apparently still around as a goddess in BotW since that shouldn’t be possible after she became mortal in SS…but BotW/TotK taking place in a timeline where she didn’t become mortal finally explains that!

It could also somehow explain the weirdness of the Triforce in BotW/TotK, because it would have presumably stayed hidden by Hylia in that timeline…and somehow found its way into the bloodline of Royal Family (likely by Hylia’s doing), though its true nature left unknown. That would explain why the Triforce is never mentioned and this timeline’s parallel of OoT has no conflict over the Triforce, but the Secret Stones instead. There are other things that make a lot of sense with this timeline, too, but it’s late and I’m tired and can’t think super well right now, lol.

I guess the one big question is…what’s up with the Zonai in the other timeline(s)? Why don’t they seem to have been around at all? Though a lot of the designs from the Four Swords trilogy games, particularly The Minish Cap, do bear a striking resemblance to Zonai designs, like the eye symbol that’s commonly associated with Vaati (but not exclusively, as it’s also used for ancient artifacts unrelated to Vaati like the Dark Mirror), so perhaps they were still around there in some capacity…
At this point, im under the impression that tears/botw is rebooted timeline. Any other elements are tangentile/easter eggs. Like yeah, the zonai came from the sky, and thats this time lines version of skyloft, so some iteration of the events of skyward sword happened, but not quit the same way as the skyward sword we know. Because of the sound the sword makes, we know that fi exists in the sword. Basically, in this time line, some time before the imprisoning war skyward sword happened, except with furries instead of “people”
 
At this point, im under the impression that tears/botw is rebooted timeline. Any other elements are tangentile/easter eggs. Like yeah, the zonai came from the sky, and thats this time lines version of skyloft, so some iteration of the events of skyward sword happened, but not quit the same way as the skyward sword we know. Because of the sound the sword makes, we know that fi exists in the sword. Basically, in this time line, some time before the imprisoning war skyward sword happened, except with furries instead of “people”
At the very least we know skyward sword and OoT happened. They kept the Princess Ruto OoT recap
 
Both BotW and now TotK mention the events of OoT, which do not match up with what we see in any of the flashbacks. It still happened.
At the very least we know skyward sword and OoT happened. They kept the Princess Ruto OoT recap
Events similar to those of OoT are mentioned, yes. But then we see events similar to—but different than—OoT in memories. Really, the game makes it very clear that this timeline has a parallel version of OoT’s events (well, not strictly parallel, I guess, since they don’t happen during the same eras but they’re still different versions of what is essentially the same events) with all the repeated things taken from that game; there’s the Imprisoning War (which is what OoT led into in the Downfall Timeline), the origins of Ganondorf, the framing of the scene with Ganondorf meeting the king, all the reused characters from OoT aside from Ganondorf himself (like Kotake and Koume in that aforementioned scene, Rauru, and the ancient sages being implied to be Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru), etc. It’s not possible for these events to happen in any of the other timelines that OoT happens in, either, so it has to be a completely different timeline.

And when it comes to Skyward Sword, it’s really only that Fi and the fact that the Master Sword was created by Hylia are referenced, and I guess the Forgotten Temple presumably being the Sealed Temple (though that also leaves some questions), and some things even contradict Skyward Sword, like Hylia still being a goddess when she became mortal in SS. But that’s why the timeline where Demise was defeated with the Master Sword in Hylia’s era would make a ton of sense to be the timeline that BotW/TotK take place on, because that would be a timeline where the events of Skyward Sword still technically happen (just not all in that same timeline) but things would also have to play out differently; Hylia would have no need to become mortal because Demise was defeated early, the Triforce would stay hidden because it wasn’t needed to destroy Demise, and there would be no need for a hero to forge the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword because the Master Sword was brought into that timeline and left there by Link. (That also would explain the existence of the Goddess Sword AKA “White Sword of the Sky” in TotK, if we’re to believe that’s supposed to be canon somehow, because both would exist simultaneously in that timeline, though I’m not using that as primary evidence at all, lol.)

At this point, im under the impression that tears/botw is rebooted timeline. Any other elements are tangentile/easter eggs. Like yeah, the zonai came from the sky, and thats this time lines version of skyloft, so some iteration of the events of skyward sword happened, but not quit the same way as the skyward sword we know. Because of the sound the sword makes, we know that fi exists in the sword. Basically, in this time line, some time before the imprisoning war skyward sword happened, except with furries instead of “people”
It can still essentially be that but also tie into the other timelines by branching off of the Skyward Sword timeline where Demise is defeated in Hylia’s era with the Master Sword, as I explained above. That timeline would presumably play out very differently from the main Skyward Sword timeline that all the other games take place in, though similar versions of those games’ events could very well take place. It would be really disappointing if it’s just a completely separate continuity, as that destroys the specific references to stuff like Fi and is just all around unsatisfying. When the series already makes use of multiple timelines to connect all of its games, I highly doubt they’ve suddenly decided to forgo that with BotW/TotK and make them totally separate. They very likely are meant to diverge from the other timeline at some point, and Skyward Sword is really the only place that both makes sense and conveniently already has an alternate timeline that can serve as BotW/TotK’s placement.

Also the word you’re looking for is humans/Hylians, not people, lol. Nonhumans are still people! =P
 
Events similar to those of OoT are mentioned, yes. But then we see events similar to—but different than—OoT in memories.
Exactly. The events in memories are different than OoT. Different Ganondorf, different hero. Not the first time we've had more than one Hyrule or more than one Ganondorf, for that reason they can't be the same. We know it's not a reboot because the OoT and SS still happening and not being the events seen in the game's flashbacks. You could be right, but it says in Ruto's era Ganondorf was defeated with the master sword which doesn't happen in the flashbacks, so we know OoT still happens.

I would put the whole Botw-verse long after Spirit Tracks (including the flashbacks in TotK), but it could also be far in the future of Child Timeline.
 
Quoted by: Tye
1
Exactly. The events in memories are different than OoT. Different Ganondorf, different hero. Not the first time we've had more than one Hyrule or more than one Ganondorf, for that reason they can't be the same. We know it's not a reboot because the OoT and SS still happening and not being the events seen in the game's flashbacks.
No, OoT proper does not fit in BotW/TotK’s timeline. TotK shows a version of Hyrule’s history that simply isn’t compatible with that of the original timeline post-SS. And it’s not that there can’t be multiple incarnations of Ganondorf, but that TotK’s specific incarnation of him and the history involving him does not fit with the original timeline at all. In BotW/TotK’s timeline, Ganondorf was clearly the first and only one, and was sealed away for well over 10,000 years before finally being defeated in TotK’s present, with his malice creating Calamity Ganon in between. Any instances of Ganon in that timeline were just repeated occurrences of Calamity Ganon, not a new Ganondorf. Plus the Rito exist during Hyrule’s founding in TotK, while that can’t be the case in the original timeline because they evolve from Zora there. Yes, similar events to OoT happen, and presumably other games as well if we’re to take all the amiibo and BotW DLC items into account (though I’m not gonna consider those to be hard canon regardless), but the full, exact events of the original game(s) cannot take place elsewhere on this timeline in addition to that.
 
No, OoT proper does not fit in BotW/TotK’s timeline. TotK shows a version of Hyrule’s history that simply isn’t compatible with that of the original timeline post-SS. And it’s not that there can’t be multiple incarnations of Ganondorf, but that TotK’s specific incarnation of him and the history involving him does not fit with the original timeline at all. In BotW/TotK’s timeline, Ganondorf was clearly the first and only one, and was sealed away for well over 10,000 years before finally being defeated in TotK’s present, with his malice creating Calamity Ganon in between. Any instances of Ganon in that timeline were just repeated occurrences of Calamity Ganon, not a new Ganondorf. Plus the Rito exist during Hyrule’s founding in TotK, while that can’t be the case in the original timeline because they evolve from Zora there. Yes, similar events to OoT happen, and presumably other games as well if we’re to take all the amiibo and BotW DLC items into account (though I’m not gonna consider those to be hard canon regardless), but the full, exact events of the original game(s) cannot take place elsewhere on this timeline in addition to that.
It's a founding of a different Hyrule imo, far in the future of the Adult timeline. I'm sure there can still be some Zora around. We have reason to believe this isn't the only Ganondorf because we know that Calamity Ganon is the Ganondorf Link fought in Ocarina of Time, while this one is obviously not from Ocarina of Time. There's not a good reason to suspect a new time branch from even before Skyward Sword either. This Ganondorf never gets the Triforce, which gives Ganondorf his Ganon form. We know the triforce is still around because of the Hyrule crest.

The Ruto stuff directly contradicts your theories here
 
Quoted by: Tye
1
With FSA we already have a second "Imprisoning War" (yeah, it's not called that, but it fits 90% of ALTTP backstory, and the game was likely intended to lead to ALTTP before being rewritten at the eleventh hour). You could ever say that an Imprisoning War has to happen every time a Ganondorf reincarnates (not Ganon, specifically Ganondorf the Gerudo).

IMHO, the game isn't lying, and the backstory takes place exactly where it says: after the foundation of the Hyrule Kingdom, which happens between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap. Assuming Koume & Kotake here are a younger versions of their OoT counterpart, we have a 400-year gap for the Hero of Men backstory from Minish Cap, Minish Cap, Four Sword, and the Hyrule Civil War (OoT backstory) and OoT. In our world, 400 years ago, every country in Europe was still a monarchy, and the United States did not ever exist. That's plenty of time!

I feel they tried to be a little consistent with Minish Cap. The most interesting fact about King Rauru's Hyrule is that nobody knows the Triforce and Master Sword, and it seems the Hylians need the help of sky people (Zonai) to solve their major crisis. Just like in the Hero of Men backstory. The Zonai triangle patterns might be a reference to Minish Cap Light Force (another magical, powerful artifact brought by people from the Sky, the Minish in this case).

I think it mostly works, though the exact relationship between TotK!Ganondorf and OoT!Ganondorf (and for that matter, Calamity Ganon) is left unclear (although you can suppose Koume & Kotake somehow engineered OoT!Ganondorf as TotK!Ganondorf reborn). Ditto for OoT!Rauru and TotK!Rauru (who has an owl mask, uhmmm).

Events similar to those of OoT are mentioned, yes. But then we see events similar to—but different than—OoT in memories. Really, the game makes it very clear that this timeline has a parallel version of OoT’s events (well, not strictly parallel, I guess, since they don’t happen during the same eras but they’re still different versions of what is essentially the same events) with all the repeated things taken from that game; there’s the Imprisoning War (which is what OoT led into in the Downfall Timeline), the origins of Ganondorf, the framing of the scene with Ganondorf meeting the king, all the reused characters from OoT aside from Ganondorf himself (like Kotake and Koume in that aforementioned scene, Rauru, and the ancient sages being implied to be Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru), etc. It’s not possible for these events to happen in any of the other timelines that OoT happens in, either, so it has to be a completely different timeline.

And when it comes to Skyward Sword, it’s really only that Fi and the fact that the Master Sword was created by Hylia are referenced, and I guess the Forgotten Temple presumably being the Sealed Temple (though that also leaves some questions), and some things even contradict Skyward Sword, like Hylia still being a goddess when she became mortal in SS. But that’s why the timeline where Demise was defeated with the Master Sword in Hylia’s era would make a ton of sense to be the timeline that BotW/TotK take place on, because that would be a timeline where the events of Skyward Sword still technically happen (just not all in that same timeline) but things would also have to play out differently; Hylia would have no need to become mortal because Demise was defeated early, the Triforce would stay hidden because it wasn’t needed to destroy Demise, and there would be no need for a hero to forge the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword because the Master Sword was brought into that timeline and left there by Link. (That also would explain the existence of the Goddess Sword AKA “White Sword of the Sky” in TotK, if we’re to believe that’s supposed to be canon somehow, because both would exist simultaneously in that timeline, though I’m not using that as primary evidence at all, lol.)


It can still essentially be that but also tie into the other timelines by branching off of the Skyward Sword timeline where Demise is defeated in Hylia’s era with the Master Sword, as I explained above. That timeline would presumably play out very differently from the main Skyward Sword timeline that all the other games take place in, though similar versions of those games’ events could very well take place. It would be really disappointing if it’s just a completely separate continuity, as that destroys the specific references to stuff like Fi and is just all around unsatisfying. When the series already makes use of multiple timelines to connect all of its games, I highly doubt they’ve suddenly decided to forgo that with BotW/TotK and make them totally separate. They very likely are meant to diverge from the other timeline at some point, and Skyward Sword is really the only place that both makes sense and conveniently already has an alternate timeline that can serve as BotW/TotK’s placement.

Also the word you’re looking for is humans/Hylians, not people, lol. Nonhumans are still people! =P


The "Hylia is still a deity in BotW/TotK" detail is fascinating, but I'm not convinced Nintendo sees a timeline split at the end of SS. SS is intended to be a (messy) time loop. OoT, in its ending, showed the two timelines, SS didn't.

The Rito issue can be solved assuming the Rito from BotW/TotK are an entirely different tribe from the WW Rito. Like, they have nothing in common, no established relationship with the Zora, no Valoo, they are born as birds with flying abilities (in WW, these are gifted by Valoo), they have a different symbol (the ones from WW have the Zora crest). If BotW called the tribe in any other way, nobody would have said "ehy, are these the same folks from Wind Waker?". Even their appearance has drastically changed. They look more like Fokka or Watarara now.
 
No, OoT proper does not fit in BotW/TotK’s timeline. TotK shows a version of Hyrule’s history that simply isn’t compatible with that of the original timeline post-SS. And it’s not that there can’t be multiple incarnations of Ganondorf, but that TotK’s specific incarnation of him and the history involving him does not fit with the original timeline at all. In BotW/TotK’s timeline, Ganondorf was clearly the first and only one, and was sealed away for well over 10,000 years before finally being defeated in TotK’s present, with his malice creating Calamity Ganon in between. Any instances of Ganon in that timeline were just repeated occurrences of Calamity Ganon, not a new Ganondorf. Plus the Rito exist during Hyrule’s founding in TotK, while that can’t be the case in the original timeline because they evolve from Zora there. Yes, similar events to OoT happen, and presumably other games as well if we’re to take all the amiibo and BotW DLC items into account (though I’m not gonna consider those to be hard canon regardless), but the full, exact events of the original game(s) cannot take place elsewhere on this timeline in addition to that.
Actually, in BOTW, it's stated that Calamity Ganon from 10k years ago is the latest of reincarnations, so Ganon has had to take on different forms so it's not totally out of the line that there have been other ganondorfs. Honestly, my new theory is that Phantom Ganon is actually not some random demon that gets summoned but is the malice of TOTK's Ganondorf that other Ganondorfs use without even realizing its true form. It would explain why it starts out weak in OoT (that Ganondorf is furious at it after you beat it) but keeps getting stronger the farther you go down the timeline.

As for the Rito, honestly I feel like this is just nitpicking because the real reason they aren't shown is because they haven't been thought up of until WW and was then branched off into its own category. We learn in ToTK that there are other countries with their own Zora Domains so it's not that hard to think that the Rito simply hid themselves like the Sheikah did and only show themselves when needed. I also think that Zelda II does support this because the Fooka enemies are bird knights and those enemies aren't members of Ganon's forces, but guardians of the temples, meant to test a worthy hero of Courage.
 
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It's a founding of a different Hyrule imo, far in the future of the Adult timeline. I'm sure there can still be some Zora around. We have reason to believe this isn't the only Ganondorf because we know that Calamity Ganon is the Ganondorf Link fought in Ocarina of Time, while this one is obviously not from Ocarina of Time. There's not a good reason to suspect a new time branch from even before Skyward Sword either. This Ganondorf never gets the Triforce, which gives Ganondorf his Ganon form. We know the triforce is still around because of the Hyrule crest.

The Ruto stuff directly contradicts your theories here
You’re ignoring my explanation of the ancient sages being Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru (plus some kind of male Medli equivalent for the Rito, possibly named Mido?), which explains all that. The mentions of Ruto and Nabooru very likely aren’t speaking of the characters from OoT, but rather their equivalents from TotK’s Imprisoning War. After all, it’s strongly implied that the Divine Beasts where made in the image of those sages, as they match the masks the sages wore. Alongside that, they’re named after them as well—Urbosa directly states that Vah Naboris is named after Nabooru, for example. So given that, those sages must bear the same names as some of the sages from OoT. So again, it’s not the actual events of OoT being referenced, but TotK’s Imprisoning War instead. That explains the Zora tablet’s mention of Ruto, Urbosa’s mention of Nabooru, and the odd lack of Darunia on Goron City’s stone carvings (because Darunia doesn’t look the same in this timeline because he’s a different character, and they likely withheld from depicting the original Darunia because of that despite him being the most obvious character to depict there).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the Triforce. The symbol of the Triforce would still exist in SS’s time for the Royal Family to use even if the actual Triforce itself remained obscured. Also this Ganondorf still becomes Ganon in a sense, and FSA Ganondorf became Ganon without the Triforce too, so the Triforce isn’t completely necessary for that to happen (though it seems to be the reason why Ganondorf permanently became Ganon in the Downfall Timeline).

And it’s not a new timeline split from before SS, it’s the timeline split that’s created at the end of the game in the era of Hylia.
 
You’re ignoring my explanation of the ancient sages being Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru (plus some kind of male Medli equivalent for the Rito, possibly named Mido?), which explains all that. The mentions of Ruto and Nabooru very likely aren’t speaking of the characters from OoT, but rather their equivalents from TotK’s Imprisoning War.
This would be wrong. A hero doesn't defeat Ganondorf with the master sword during the imprisoning war, which is what Ruto speaks of.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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This would be wrong. A hero doesn't defeat Ganondorf with the master sword during the imprisoning war, which is what Ruto speaks of.
The whole point of the Imprisoning War (and where it gets its name) was to imprison Ganondorf for Link to be able to defeat in the future with the Master Sword, and this was known to the sages because of Zelda. So yes, it still fits. They worked with a hero and the Master Sword across time.
 
The whole point of the Imprisoning War (and where it gets its name) was to imprison Ganondorf for Link to be able to defeat in the future with the Master Sword, and this was known to the sages because of Zelda. So yes, it still fits. They worked with a hero and the Master Sword across time.
The Ruto thing says he was defeated in the past with the master sword
 
The Ruto thing says he was defeated in the past with the master sword
Does it? I don’t recall it explicitly saying that. I’ll have to reread the original text, I guess. Regardless, the Zora tablets are known to embellish the truth, from some of King Dorephan’s records in BotW, so we can’t take it as absolute fact anyway.
 
Does it? I don’t recall it explicitly saying that. I’ll have to reread the original text, I guess. Regardless, the Zora tablets are known to embellish the truth, from some of King Dorephan’s records in BotW, so we can’t take it as absolute fact anyway.
I think that is a very big stretch. I would argue the whole point of those since BotW is to make it clear that this is the same continuity as the other games, just very far in the future. Especially if they kept them in TotK where there is understandably some confusion. I think that is a much simpler explanation than creating a new branching point and arguing they were actually referring to events that don't really fit the description at all.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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The Master Sword is not mentioned explicitly, but the "Hero of Legends", a Hylian swordsman, is.

Zora table in BotW
History of the Zora, Part Five
The Sage Princess Ruto

As told by King Dorephan

Long, long ago... In a past more distant than even the Great Calamity or the creation of the Divine Beast Vah Ruta...
There was a Zora princess named Ruto.
We know that she was an attendant to the Zora patron deity and that she was a fair and lively girl, beloved to all.
Around that same time, an evil man with designs on ruling the world appeared, bringing disaster upon Zora's Domain.
It is said that Ruto then awoke as a sage, facing this foe alongside the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend.

Mipha's diary from Champion's Ballad
According to the old legend, long ago a Zora princess fell in love with a Hylian swordsman. Perhaps there is hope.

Zora table from TotK
Learnings of the Zora, Part Two
The Legend of Ruto, Our Great Ancestor

As told by Prince Sidon

It is written that long ago there was a strong-willed Zora princess who was as meandering as a winding river.
This princess, who was dearly loved by her fellow Zora, was as noble as she was innocent. Her name was Ruto.
One day, a powerful and wicked man tried to take over Hyrule and brought great ruin to the once-peaceful Zora's Domain.
Our tales speak of fallen Zora soldiers drifting down the river as it sadly reflected the chaotic retreat of the terrified Zora.
Princess Ruto bravely fought back her tears as she bore witness to the tragic misery unfolding in the domain.
Even amid her heartbreak, the Zora princess did all she could to help the weak and elderly escape.
Next she swam against the river's current and climbed the mighty waterfall to challenge her foe.
The details of this fight have fallen victim to the haze of time. Few details remain.
Still, it is said that she was aided by the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend, and together they saved Hyrule.

The intent is clear, the "Ruto" remembered by the Zora is the Ruto from OoT. So in the developer's minds, OoT somehow happens in BotW/TotK's past. This was also confirmed by Creating a Champions, but it remains to be seen if everything from the book is still canon or not.
 
Can’t really force myself to care about the timeline much, because I don’t think Nintendo will ever acknowledge where these games sit. The last thing they’ll do with their new 30m+ selling Zelda games is put out a timeline for all their new players that goes “oh btw these are connected to all these games you’ll never play and many of which you can’t access!”

That said I think TOTK’s lore beautifully blends series tropes and references (sages, Sage of light being Rauru, the imprisoning war and sealing Ganondorf) with new stuff like the Zonai, secret stones and draconificafion to keep things fresh.

It feels like a reinterpretation and adds to the mythical aspect of the series. I hope they continue with doing it like this and continue to not feel bound by the timeline
 
I didn't know about the construct that sold ancient blades, but now I'm even less happy with the story. Robbie created the ancient arrows according to BOTW.
the blades themselves were not created by robbie iirc, just connecting them to arrows
 
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Can’t really force myself to care about the timeline much, because I don’t think Nintendo will ever acknowledge where these games sit. The last thing they’ll do with their new 30m+ selling Zelda games is put out a timeline for all their new players that goes “oh btw these are connected to all these games you’ll never play and many of which you can’t access!”

That said I think TOTK’s lore beautifully blends series tropes and references (sages, Sage of light being Rauru, the imprisoning war and sealing Ganondorf) with new stuff like the Zonai, secret stones and draconificafion to keep things fresh.

It feels like a reinterpretation and adds to the mythical aspect of the series. I hope they continue with doing it like this and continue to not feel bound by the timeline
But Nintendo never "felt bound by the timeline". For example, OoT was developed as a prequel of ALTTP, yet contradicting some details of its backstory. It also introduced in the mythos the Goron, the Zora (in their humanoid form), the Kokiri, and the Gerudo, and the idea of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf as Triforce bearers.

The timeline is just a fun thing in the background. Every Zelda game can be your first Zelda game, and you lose nothing by not knowing how the various games are connected. At the same time, trying to fit each game into the timeline is fun, a meta-game if you want, and "the bigger picture" can enhance the details of some games (for example, I really like the idea that the Kotake & Koume from TotK are the younger versions of the OoT characters). With that said, nobody is losing their sleep there are some minor (and even not-so-minor) contradictions here and there. Aonuma himself said that "people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing".

By the way, if we take Aonuma's and the games' words verbatim, we already know where BotW/TotK fits. BotW is after OoT, at the very end of one branch. TotK is after it. TotK's backstory happens around the foundation of Hyrule. These are the puzzle pieces. Connecting them is fun!
 
Can’t really force myself to care about the timeline much, because I don’t think Nintendo will ever acknowledge where these games sit. The last thing they’ll do with their new 30m+ selling Zelda games is put out a timeline for all their new players that goes “oh btw these are connected to all these games you’ll never play and many of which you can’t access!”

That said I think TOTK’s lore beautifully blends series tropes and references (sages, Sage of light being Rauru, the imprisoning war and sealing Ganondorf) with new stuff like the Zonai, secret stones and draconificafion to keep things fresh.

It feels like a reinterpretation and adds to the mythical aspect of the series. I hope they continue with doing it like this and continue to not feel bound by the timeline
The timeline stuff was fun when I was 14 watching theories about it on YouTube but I can’t imagine really caring that much nowadays. It’s the kind of thing companies come up with to sell books full of lore to nerds (I include myself in this with Hyrule Historia sitting on my bookshelf). It’s like the least interesting thing to discuss about these games for me.
 
No it was just explained above that it was someone with the same role as a sage also named Rito because it's a reimagining of similar events just like every Zelda game has been for the most part
No, we know Vah Rutah was named after a Ruto who fought "alongside the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend". The Zora recall these events not as a legend but as a written history. Also, according to an old legend, "a Zora princess fell in love with a Hylian swordsman" (following the games alone, this princess might or might not be Ruto, but I think the developers' intent is clear).
The timeline stuff was fun when I was 14 watching theories about it on YouTube but I can’t imagine really caring that much nowadays. It’s the kind of thing companies come up with to sell books full of lore to nerds (I include myself in this with Hyrule Historia sitting on my bookshelf). It’s like the least interesting thing to discuss about these games for me.
Nobody is losing their sleep over the timeline, it's just a fun, silly game we like to play, and the developers clearly intended to connect the games loosely.
 
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No it was just explained above that it was someone with the same role as a sage also named Rito because it's a reimagining of similar events just like every Zelda game has been for the most part
I think if you've played OoT it's a pretty explicit reference. That description certainly doesn't apply to the Zora sage in TotK's flashback at any rate.
 
You’re ignoring my explanation of the ancient sages being Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru (plus some kind of male Medli equivalent for the Rito, possibly named Mido?), which explains all that. The mentions of Ruto and Nabooru very likely aren’t speaking of the characters from OoT, but rather their equivalents from TotK’s Imprisoning War. After all, it’s strongly implied that the Divine Beasts where made in the image of those sages, as they match the masks the sages wore. Alongside that, they’re named after them as well—Urbosa directly states that Vah Naboris is named after Nabooru, for example. So given that, those sages must bear the same names as some of the sages from OoT. So again, it’s not the actual events of OoT being referenced, but TotK’s Imprisoning War instead. That explains the Zora tablet’s mention of Ruto, Urbosa’s mention of Nabooru, and the odd lack of Darunia on Goron City’s stone carvings (because Darunia doesn’t look the same in this timeline because he’s a different character, and they likely withheld from depicting the original Darunia because of that despite him being the most obvious character to depict there).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the Triforce. The symbol of the Triforce would still exist in SS’s time for the Royal Family to use even if the actual Triforce itself remained obscured. Also this Ganondorf still becomes Ganon in a sense, and FSA Ganondorf became Ganon without the Triforce too, so the Triforce isn’t completely necessary for that to happen (though it seems to be the reason why Ganondorf permanently became Ganon in the Downfall Timeline).

And it’s not a new timeline split from before SS, it’s the timeline split that’s created at the end of the game in the era of Hylia.
Eh, names are repeated all the time anyways. It wouldn't be that far to assume that Ruto is a name that's used in multiple generations. There could be both a Ruto who is the ancient Sage who had the Secret Stone and another Ruto who was around during the Hero of Legend. Real Life Royalty loves having kings with the same name so it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the others in Hyrule also like this.
 
The single biggest new jam in the game. which isnt saying a lot because at the moment i feel like this is the least impressive mainline zelda ost in a long time. still need some time to stew on it though, i warmed up a lot to botw's ultimate ingame music as well.
I have a lot to say about the soundtrack, it would probably be for a whole another thread but just some things:

- Skyview Tower theme is also great, at times I was just in front of tower and listening, Skeikah Tower theme was still better though, that's just too nostalgic at this point. But Skyview Tower fits the theme so well, not to mention when Link goes into sky or when he activates them.

- Lucky Clover Gazette? Stuck in my head ever since, it's good that Stable rhytm in it which fits since the place used to be a Rito Stable

- I don't mind re-using stuff but the freezing music really gets old here when you played BOTW. The stables/horse music I don't mind that much, same for few same jingles like pickup item, new location etc. (shrine sensor is new though!!).

- Town themes are the biggest letdown, yes you get different themes for Rito, Gerudo and Zora's Domain (the Rito one is best imo, really sets the vibe when you first get there) but once you clear things it's the exact same theme from BOTW, I was of course not expecting them to change it to something completely different but new arrangements would work here. How can you do soundtrack for Hateno School while keeping the Hateno Village theme exact same.

- Mipha's Court theme is gorgerous, people who did not played BOTW are really missing a lot on these kind of references.
Not to say much about Temples music, I loved them. Lightning temple references attack on Vah Naboris. Wind Temple has Revali's theme and attack on Vah Medoh and bunch of other things, the same goes for Water/Fire temples as well.

And I didn't even mentioned the epic finale or when the Sages appear in Depths to help to fight you the army (hell I did not even mentioned Depths).

It feels like I barely scratched the surface. People who did not played BOTW are missing on so much with the soundtrack refferences, not to mention the world it self with characters evolved.
 
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The music was fine overall but was lacking in standout tracks. I do love the music getting more weird and unnerving though as you get closer to Ganondorf in the depths. That is a moment I will remember for a while.
 
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The more I think about the story... While it still has some of the most amazing highs in the game (the ending, oh my god the ending, and the dragon transform, and the intro) it feels, like, janky in a way, with some things that feels so odd. (the deceit scene being an example) I've seen more critical takes of the story here and there, and I can't help but see eye-to-eye with some of the points being made, despite the fact that I on the whole loved this story more than the story of, say, BotW or SS.

A thing that's been on my mind recently was that it felt like the whole thing lacked.. a theme? BotW's themes were nature, wilderness. Zelda wanted to do research, but she was burdened with her duties and couldn't free her power, it was only by being freed from her burdens and accessing her powers naturally that she truly woke up. The Silent Princess in the logo was symbolic - like Zelda herself, the flower could only thrive in the wild.

TotK's theme is... sacrifice? Or something? What was up with the whole ouroboros in the logo, the beginning is the end/the cycle of things/the birth and death that everyone was harping on about? Just a theory? What's the logo supposed to represent then, that there's.. dragons in the game? I'm not following here.

Like, It felt to me that the game lacked something significant to say, other than "if you really believe someone to protect you, sacrifice everything for them". Which is a powerful message, and why some of the stuff in the story hits hard, but if that really is all there is to it, it sort of lacks depth when compared to BotW specifically.
 
I think that is a very big stretch. I would argue the whole point of those since BotW is to make it clear that this is the same continuity as the other games, just very far in the future. Especially if they kept them in TotK where there is understandably some confusion. I think that is a much simpler explanation than creating a new branching point and arguing they were actually referring to events that don't really fit the description at all.
I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. In fact, the actual text quoted here says nothing that couldn’t also apply to the ancient Zora sage:
The Master Sword is not mentioned explicitly, but the "Hero of Legends", a Hylian swordsman, is.

Zora table in BotW


Mipha's diary from Champion's Ballad


Zora table from TotK


The intent is clear, the "Ruto" remembered by the Zora is the Ruto from OoT. So in the developer's minds, OoT somehow happens in BotW/TotK's past. This was also confirmed by Creating a Champions, but it remains to be seen if everything from the book is still canon or not.
The stuff from Mipha’s diary doesn’t name Ruto at all, nor does it say the swordsman was the hero of legend, so that’s likely just a reference to OoT but not explicitly talking about either version of Ruto. But as far as the other stuff, like I said, nothing there is anything that can’t apply to the Zora sage of TotK’s Imprisoning War rather than OoT Ruto. It’s said that she faced Ganondorf “alongside the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend” in BotW and that “she was aided by the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend, and together they saved Hyrule” in TotK, and those can absolutely still apply to TotK’s ancient Zora sage. It may have happened across time, but the sages were all aware of the hero of legend from the future and everything they did was to set up for Link to finish the job, and Link aided them by doing exactly that as Zelda believed he would. It’s a bit timey-wimey but it would make sense for the legend to be passed down as such. The game is pretty explicit about the four tribes being completely dedicated to assisting the hero of legend when the time arrives, after all.

What’s far more of a stretch to me is believing that these ancient sages of TotK’s Imprisoning War are not supposed to be Darunia, Ruto, Nabooru, etc., when you already have Rauru there as one of the sages, and they wear masks that are very specifically based on the Divine Beasts—rather, it would be the other way around in canon, with the Divine Beasts (and their associated helms) being designed based on the Imprisoning War sages, and that would include the names as well. They also go unnamed and are never unmasked, as if the intention was to leave it up to the players to piece the connections together, and it seems pretty obvious to me given all the context of TotK and BotW. After all, the game doesn’t shy away from misdirecting the player by dropping familiar names from the very beginning only to later confirm that it’s not at all the same version of the thing or character you thought it was, like with the Imprisoning War and Rauru.
 
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the blades themselves were not created by robbie iirc, just connecting them to arrows
The two technologies are still separated by thousands of years. It's bizarre especially when you could just have Robbie or any of the Sheikah sale them to you. I'm willing to admit tho that it being a construct in Mineru's factory makes things a little bit better even if it's still contrived, and a clear instance of "gameplay > story."
The timeline stuff was fun when I was 14 watching theories about it on YouTube but I can’t imagine really caring that much nowadays. It’s the kind of thing companies come up with to sell books full of lore to nerds (I include myself in this with Hyrule Historia sitting on my bookshelf). It’s like the least interesting thing to discuss about these games for me.
Plenty of people do still care about the timeline myself included obviously. It also was never something they just came up with on the spot. They've been making sequels and prequels for like 30 years. The games have always connected.

To me personally the lore and story are the two most important parts of a Zelda game to me.

@Tye

I don't have much to add to your guys argument, I just want to say that the retconning idea really sucks. Not necessarily your theory, so no offense to you, just the idea that they would retcon OOT and presumably all of the traditional timeline. If they want to do that they needed to provide characters and a story that would be worth replacing everything else with, and I doubt anyone would genuinely believe that ToTKs nameless faceless bland sages are on par with just about any other character in the series.
 
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Yeah, I'm definitely in the "BotW/TotK are their own thing unconnected from the previous timeline" camp. These games feel like a deliberate retelling of the Zelda mythos that shares important elements - like Hyrule's founders descending from the sky, Hyrulians fighting in an Imprisoning War, the names and existence of the sages - but told in a very different way where these things ultimately mean different things. I think it needs a far bigger leap of logic to interpret "the ancient first king and queen of Hyrule" as "they actually mean a new Hyrule and it's just coincidentally that the core elements line up again" instead of accepting it as what it's portrayed as in the game - the founders and first king and queen of Hyrule. I don't think there's any indication in-game that there's anything preceding them. With the little lore tidbids here and there being ambiguous enough that they could be referring to TotK's backstory while paying homage to what's been before. Like, I don't really see what of the quoted Ruto quotes specifically must be OoT Ruto instead of BotW/TotK's sage of the same name being a deliberate nod to the series' past. Tye's point that the Divine Beasts seem to be modelled after TotK's ancient sages and thus likely also got their names from those sages strikes me as very valid and the most plausible explanation.
 
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