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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom — Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: new "Traversing the Still World" trailer, see threadmarks)

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NabiscoFelt said:
Yeah I could see something like that

Turns out I was a bit wrong about the slots though, the two on the top are different than the ones on the bottom. So it could end up being something like Rod-Sword-Shield-Bow on the top and then Bag-Automatons on the bottom. In which case there may be only three Automatons and we've already seen them all
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automatons are likely to get their own menu alongside echoes. They are not going to get an entire d-pad slot and relative menù, just for three items
 
Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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Is this satire? Like you can't be serious.
 
Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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Zeltik is a well known guy that loves the zelda franchise as a whole. He is humble and doesnt come off as the way your making him out to be.

Think of serebii Joe but for zelda (youtube).

Edit: Well if anyone of the youtubers would preview a zelda game I would pick him. He is all mostly just zelda content
 
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Nintendolife's preview actually had a few, slight negative points. They found the traversal/puzzlesolving to be reductive due to echoes but conversely the combat to be more complex lol. But yeah first dungeon.
 
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I don’t see anything wrong with influencers getting previews. Like it or not, they’re now part of marketing considerations for companies
 
I don't consider the return of traditional dungeon design a "win for the true fans", personally. I don't consider ALBW dungeons particularly memorable, and they were traditional. Also the fact that they played the prologue, the pre-dungeon and first dungeon just on 80 minutes makes me feel like they are not "huge" like the marketing implies, although it can be because it's a tutorial dungeon and not a "full" one. We will have to see. They also marketed TotK dungeons as huge in interviews and they are anything but that.

I still have a lot of doubts about the game, I hope I can vibe with what it brings to the table in the end, as a Zelda fan.
 
ALBW (which is peak the best Zelda), is at 91. From what we've seen, unless the gameplay loop somehow ends up being much more reductive than expected I can't see this drop below 88. And I'd probably expect around 92.

Personally Its looking like it will take some of strengths from the old and new design philosophies. Especially if some new dungeon echoes or main abilities are obtained in the dungeon.

I'm personally excited for more traditional dungeons, imo even the best open air dungeons are pretty mid at best and they've had 2 opportunities now (Although the desert one from BOTW would have been pretty great if it didn't suffer from the samey visuals/vibe and all 9ish main dungeons from all the games having the same find the terminal design, the core puzzle solving and gimmick is excellent). Hyrule castle was also pretty great.
 
NabiscoFelt said:
Anyone post this yet? Key Item menu was shown briefly during Zeltik's preview video, and there's some potentially interesting (and maybe spoilery) stuff in there

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So, there's some interesting stuff here. For some reason Bottles take up a Key Item slot (maybe to put a limit on revives?). There are slots for The Sword (probably) and some other equally important item (maybe the Bow?). I think the 5 slots on the same side as the weapons are probably for the Automatons, and then I have no clue what the long one is for

Edit: Realized the Squares on the top row are actually a different size than the ones on the bottom. So maybe there are only the three Automatons we've been shown and the top slots are for something different? Sword/Shield maybe?

My slightly informed guess for the row of five squares and the three circle slots on the right are dungeon MacGuffins? Volvagia in the last trailer seems to have a prominent green pearl-y thing hanging from it
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Well I'd like to report that some of my conclusions were utterly and completely wrong

This is from SwitchUp's footage, which is taken in the dungeon after Swordfighter form, which means Bind is also available at this point
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So it seems the Sword is taking up one of the set of 3 slots on the left, which is not what I had expected at all. I have no more guesses and will now proceed to flip out about the potential mechanics this game is still hiding from us

Ok I guess one more guess that's probably going to be wrong is that the Sword is going to be part of a set with the Bow and who-the-hell-knows-anymore. Not Shield since that's also something we'd have at this point (which may mean the Bow also won't be here if it's part of Swordfighter Mode. in which case I have no clue what goes here)

Polmo said:
automatons are likely to get their own menu alongside echoes. They are not going to get an entire d-pad slot and relative menù, just for three items
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Yeah I mean it's not going to be three anymore at least, not enough slots for that. I could see what you're saying for sure with them having a separate menu. Kinda want to see what's going on with that mechanic now, are they just going to be powerful Echo-like summons with a large "cast" time and some potential cooldown/resource management mechanic?

If the Automatons are going to be on this key item menu the only place that makes sense now is the row of 5, but that feels like a weirder place to put them (and I'm holding out hope that's one of the MacGuffin slots and we have at least 8 main dungeons in the game)
 
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Mellifluus said:
I don't consider the return of traditional dungeon design a "win for the true fans", personally. I don't consider ALBW dungeons particularly memorable, and they were traditional. Also the fact that they played the prologue, the pre-dungeon and first dungeon just on 80 minutes makes me feel like they are not "huge" like the marketing implies, although it can be because it's a tutorial dungeon and not a "full" one. We will have to see. They also marketed TotK dungeons as huge in interviews and they are anything but that.

I still have a lot of doubts about the game, I hope I can vibe with what it brings to the table in the end, as a Zelda fan.
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Relative to other 2D Zeldas, you probably could finish both Tail Cave and Bottle Grotto in 80 minutes in Links Awakening. I don't think there's any 2D Zelda dungeons that take more than an hour to complete. I think when the trailer referred to 'massive dungeons', they just mean they're big regular zelda dungeons and not shrine length. I don't think they're alluding to the fact that these dungeons are so big that they'll take hours to complete.

I think you're underrating ALBWs dungeons too. They're all pretty bite sized but they're fun and each of them have some unique characteristic that makes it stand out from another. If you wanna talk about unmemorable dungeons I'd look to the Oracle games.

Also I don't think they were wrong in calling TOTKs dungeons big. They are big, they just aren't very long.
 
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I think it’s often looked over that much more quick and seamless traversal and not being hard separated into rooms probably plays a part in making the open air dungeons feel smaller. They’re all decent size.

Google SS’s dungeon maps and you’ll be shocked at how much smaller they look than you remember probably, easily comparable to the open air ones in terms of pure space (a lot are just one floor too.

I’d actually call the Fire and Lightning Temples pretty complex and big in terms of layout
 
Phendrift said:
I think it’s often looked over that much more quick and seamless traversal and not being hard separated into rooms probably plays a part in making the open air dungeons feel smaller. They’re all decent size.

Google SS’s dungeon maps and you’ll be shocked at how much smaller they look than you remember probably, easily comparable to the open air ones in terms of pure space (a lot are just one floor too.

I’d actually call the Fire and Lightning Temples pretty complex and big in terms of layout
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It's the same reason why the 2D games are a lot shorter than the 3D ones. There's much less downtime in moment to moment gameplay. A good portion of the games are just going from one dungeon to the next with the odd trading quest in between.

That's why even with the massively expanded scope of EoW I can't really imagine this game being much longer than 20 hours. Although with the addition of side quests it may be ~30 to 100 percent.
 
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I wonder if other transformation powers like Swordfighter mode will be equivalent to “dungeon items”, each found in one of the dungeons. There’s probably 5 (1 intro, 4 for each race/region) main dungeons with a possible 6th finale area like Hyrule Castle. That would mean there’s 4 more transformations using the blue “magic” meter.
 
Klax0nKlax0ff said:
I wonder if other transformation powers like Swordfighter mode will be equivalent to “dungeon items”, each found in one of the dungeons. There’s probably 5 (1 intro, 4 for each race/region) main dungeons with a possible 6th finale area like Hyrule Castle. That would mean there’s 4 more transformations using the blue “magic” meter.
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I'd be very surprised if there was no dungeon in the Hebra region. We've seen exactly 1 second of that area. So that'd be 7 dungeons.

I'm not sure about each dungeon having a new ability or item either. I think the first dungeon was just front loaded cause it's the tutorial dungeon and they want to give you your abilities from the get go so you can access a good portion of the map. I think the echoes you acquire in dungeons are meant to fill that niches. I could be wrong but I'm not expecting a new game changing item/ability in every dungeon.

And im assuming the big reward for clearing dungeons is upgrading Tris echo limit.
 
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Klax0nKlax0ff said:
I wonder if other transformation powers like Swordfighter mode will be equivalent to “dungeon items”, each found in one of the dungeons. There’s probably 5 (1 intro, 4 for each race/region) main dungeons with a possible 6th finale area like Hyrule Castle. That would mean there’s 4 more transformations using the blue “magic” meter.
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I don't think there's enough space in the Key Item menu UI to support 4 additional transformations (unless some don't have an associated Key Item or take up spaces in the UI that are different sized than the one the Sword uses) but honestly I'm a bit disappointed I never considered that the Dpad Up used for transformations could be a selector like the rest of the Dpad options we know about. There could well be more than 1 additional form to use, which would be pretty neat

I'm increasingly unconvinced though that the game will follow a "4 corners" dungeon structure. I'm leaning towards there being some midgame twist like in many previous games, and the dungeons appropriately grouped up.

I also think that if additional transformations are placed on Dpad Up, and looking at the menu UI, there's probably at least 1 major mechanic left to be revealed
 
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LA got a 87. ALBWs at a 91. I think this game will probably be in the 90-94 range.

I don't think it has a shot at winning GOTY though. I get the impression '2D' games like this are seen as lesser compared to their 3D counterparts. There's still a lot of people who think this game is a spinoff.
 
This game is looking like everything I want...out of a 3D Zelda. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy top down Zelda, but they're just not as immersive to me. I guess this is where the more traditional Zelda games will live from now on.


Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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I can't tell if this is a serious post or not, but nonetheless I consider it pretty disrespectful. If you care so much about Zeltik's "purity" (what does this even mean?) then why would you immediately assume that his credibility is tarnished because he was invited to a preview? Are you questioning his integrity as a person to be able to share his honest thoughts just because he was invited to play the game? Who said anything about money? And "disgusted" is a pretty strong reaction to a situation where we don't have all the facts.

Also, Nintendo (and other companies advertising their products) has been inviting influencers to previews for a while now. This is not new.
 
Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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Lmaooo
 
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brainchild said:
This game is looking like everything I want...out of a 3D Zelda. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy top down Zelda, but they're just not as immersive to me. I guess this is where the more traditional Zelda games will live from now on.




I can't tell if this is a serious post or not, but nonetheless I consider it pretty disrespectful. If you care so much about Zeltik's "purity" (what does this even mean?) then why would you immediately assume that his credibility is tarnished because he was invited to a preview? Are you questioning his integrity as a person to be able to share his honest thoughts just because he was invited to play the game? Who said anything about money? And "disgusted" is a pretty strong reaction to a situation where we don't have all the facts.

Also, Nintendo (and other companies advertising their products) has been inviting influencers to previews for a while now. This is not new.
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This is my first time seeing Nintendo's promotion in this way, so it makes me feel a bit disgusted. I often watch Zeltik's videos, while now brings me a sense of unfamiliarity.
Some of my words may look overreaction, but for me it's just a slight discomfort.
Regarding whether he will be tainted by money. This is a concern about something that has not yet happened.
 
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Klax0nKlax0ff said:
I wonder if other transformation powers like Swordfighter mode will be equivalent to “dungeon items”, each found in one of the dungeons. There’s probably 5 (1 intro, 4 for each race/region) main dungeons with a possible 6th finale area like Hyrule Castle. That would mean there’s 4 more transformations using the blue “magic” meter.
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oh! maybe we can have more weapons !
Like a Bow mode?
 
When the late game twist reveals the true villain, after Zelda defeats Ganon, you'll unlock Ganon mode; you can fling your trident around and turn into a swarm of bats to attack enemies. Also Zelda stays her normal size but she does get a pig nose and hooves in Ganon mode.
 
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Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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More and more influencers will get this treatment, especially now that they're pretty much on par with gaming journalists and companies realise they can utilise them in this way. Take a look at all of the Fromsoft content creators who got to go and play Elden Ring for the first time, it's definitely not a novel concept and, as someone who has been on the receiving end of something similar (not gaming-related), I'm not sure this would've been a paid thing, just a "We invite you to our regional HQ to preview the game under these conditions. If you do post a video, it must include these points etc and you are not to spoil xyz."

Personally, I love to see someone who is a wholly dedicated fan experience this more than just video game journalists.

That aside, I really love the look of this game! I think the previews have really made me more excited than I was (I already was but now counting down the days haha) and they've curbed a few of my concerns regarding the echoes mechanic and the sword feature as well. I was a bit sceptical about the echoes just because I wondered if they'd be too clunky but they don't seem it? May be wrong and it might change when I play it but yeah, looks good! Very excited!
 
NabiscoFelt said:
Still betting on Bow being a part of the Swordfighter form moveset. We know Link has one after all so it would be weird to tie it into a different form

A bit more on that front, "The Swordfighter" is how Zelda and Impa refer to Link, so the form is basically just Link mode
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I can see, just like botw/totk, every dungeon can give a spirit (transform zelda to a spirit with a specific weapon or item), and that item can be used like the special item in traditional zelda dungeon
 
Secu said:
Why Zeltik was invited to make a Preview？
He's not gaming media, just an influencer. This makes me feel a bit disgusted. I hope these influencers can maintain their purity. So, I don't have to worry about them receiving too much money from game company and talking nonsense.
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Plenty of gaming influencers have taken freebies to talk up a game without being clear who exactly compensated them in advance for their content, so I don’t think there’s an awful lot of ‘purity’ in editorial content there. They are influencers, what they sell to publishers is the numbers of their followers that they claim to be able to influence under the guise of it being ‘grass roots’, and get given stuff to promote in return. Personally I prefer games journalists who are free to give their thoughts as they answer to their editor rather than a client, rather than seeing influencers laden with merch who are huge fans and already primed to be nothing but positive. The latter is just commercial activity under another name without sticking ‘advertorial’ on it. To each their own though, I get why the sense of wonder from influencer fans can be addictive to watch (even if they have just received a pile of stuff in payment to be excited) rather than the sometimes clinical view of a professional reviewer.
 
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PixelKnight said:
Plenty of gaming influencers have taken freebies to talk up a game without being clear who exactly compensated them in advance for their content, so I don’t think there’s an awful lot of ‘purity’ in editorial content there. They are influencers, what they sell to publishers is the numbers of their followers that they claim to be able to influence under the guise of it being ‘grass roots’, and get given stuff to promote in return. Personally I prefer games journalists who are free to give their thoughts as they answer to their editor rather than a client, rather than seeing influencers laden with merch who are huge fans and already primed to be nothing but positive. The latter is just commercial activity under another name without sticking ‘advertorial’ on it. To each their own though, I get why the sense of wonder from influencer fans can be addictive to watch (even if they have just received a pile of stuff in payment to be excited) rather than the sometimes clinical view of a professional reviewer.
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Exactly, KOLs/KOCs like to pretend to be an enthusiast. This has nothing to do with Zeltik, it's just that I've seen too many people who claim to make videos out of passion but, until their hypocrisy was discovered.
 
INFORMATION FOR UNITED KINGDOM OF BLIGHTY AND NETHERPARTS IRE BASED FAMI MEMBERS

Echoes of Wisdom is obtainable from Currys for £37.49 if you use the discount code ZELDA25 when paying.
 
Secu said:
I know, I just thought it was an exception at that time and wouldn't turn into a long-term partnership.
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Influencer Marketing isn't a long-term partnership. This isn't a brand deal where Zeltik signed to be exclusive with Nintendo. It's just whenever Zelda products will be released, he will be taken into consideration for hands-on stuff like previews and getting review copies.

If anything, Nintendo did a phenomenal job with the Influencer Marketing, seeing as how some companies think Influencer Marketing is just giving an influencer your brand and have them do their stuff.

And I'm happy for Zeltik. There's so much you can do with Zelda lore videos, so the fact he's getting into the games themselves is good for his livelihood, assuming he wants to make a living out of Zelda content.
 
MisterSpo said:
When the late game twist reveals the true villain, after Zelda defeats Ganon, you'll unlock Ganon mode; you can fling your trident around and turn into a swam of bats to attack enemies. Also Zelda stays her normal size but she does get a pig nose and hooves in Ganon mode.
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No no no!

If Peach (and Daisy) could get BBW transformations in Mario Wonder, then why should Zelda be immune?
 
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