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Discussion The Anti-Blackness of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Neoxon

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AUTHOR'S NOTE: This thread was initially written on ResetEra not long after the release of Pyra/Mythra, with the 5th character of Fighters Pass Vol. 2 not yet revealed & us being under the impression that Fighters Pass Vol. 2 would be the end of the road for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. It was later updated with the section at the very bottom long after the reveal of Kazuya Mishima, Fighters Pass Vol. 2's 5th character, with the reveal of the 6th & final character being days away at the time I ported this thread over. In the 1-in-14,000,605 chance that a Black character is revealed between when this thread was posted & the actual reveal of said Black character, that still leaves the issue of the other topics discussed in this thread. One Black character getting on the roster doesn't magically erase the other problems. It's mainly a necessary step forward towards addressing said problems. Likewise, this thread is mainly discussing characters who are primarily & inarguably Black. Ambiguously dark-skinned characters like Elma & Steve (the latter of whom is already in Smash), while appreciated in the grand scheme of things, aren't relevant to this topic. Honestly, this was one of the hardest threads I've ever written (up there with the Black History Month thread). Not just because I have to tear into a series I otherwise love, but because I wanted to get across all of my grievances regarding Smash's anti-Blackness in one thread. This thread actually went through days of writing, editing, & additions because of me wanting to make sure I say everything that I want to say in the best way possible. But at the end of the day, I made this thread because I love Smash & want to see it (as well as Sakurai & the other parties involved) do better. It's because these issues matter that I thought this should be the first thread I bring over to FamiBoards (just as I did with porting the thread to Twitter).



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As many of you know already, I'm a huge fighting game fan who loves the Super Smash Bros. series to pieces (fighting game, party game, whatever you want to call Smash). I've been playing it since its inception on the Nintendo 64. And while I still stand by the opinion that Melee is the best entry in the series, Ultimate is very easily a close 2nd for me. From its massive roster to the plethora of stages to the great music, there's a lot to love about Smash Ultimate. But the game has three glaring problems that I've been very vocal about: Lack of Women, Lack of Melanin, & Terrible Netcode. Of the three, only the first one has been addressed in some capacity, though the success of their attempts to rectify the problem are up for debate. Min Min is great (more on her later), but Pyra/Mythra are basically the poster girls for objectification in modern Nintendo games (& that's coming from someone who enjoyed Xenoblade 2), with Sakurai & Co. not doing nearly enough to fix Pyra's design (Mythra's design is actually tolerable now). But that's a discussion for another time, one that I may circle back around to at a later date. But this topic has been boiling to the surface of my mind for the last month as I was writing the Celebration of Black Characters in Games thread last month, hence why I made the thread you're reading now. Before we start, let me preface my write-up with one thing: I do not think that Masahiro Sakurai is racist. As I've said in the past, there's a difference between ignorance & malice. However, said ignorance towards the need for diversity on the roster as well as his ignorance towards some of the racist stereotypes found in his games is legitimately concerning & bad in their own right (I'll elaborate on this later). I understand how important Smash Ultimate is, but that makes it all the more important to criticize the game on its mistakes so Sakurai, Bandai Namco, & Nintendo can do better going forward. We should be expecting more from the best-selling fighting game of all time, not less. With that being said, let's get to the meat & potatoes of this thread.



THE BIGGEST (& PALEST) FIGHTING GAME ROSTER

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Before we address the main problem, I should certainly give credit where it's due. What Super Smash Bros. Ultimate was able to accomplish is nothing short of amazing. Counting Pokémon Trainer & Pyra/Mythra each as one character, we're at 84 characters with two more on the way before Sakurai & Bandai Namco close up shop. However, the is also the palest fighting game roster in recent memory. Of the aforementioned 84 characters & counting, Smash Ultimate has literally zero characters who are primarily & inarguably Black. The game instead relies more on alternate costumes (more on that later) & an ambiguously dark-skinned character in Steve. In fact, Smash Ultimate is one of only three modern fighting games (alongside Dragon Ball FighterZ & Granblue Fantasy: Versus, more on them later) to not have a single Black character in its ranks. And considering that Smash Ultimate is now at 84 characters (as of when this thread was initially posted), it's even more disappointing that we've gone this far without a single primarily & inarguably Black character. We do have a character from a group based on various Middle Eastern cultures in the form of Ganondorf. But considering that he's the literal King of Evil (an offensive stereotype in & of itself), he may not be the best point of reference in terms of diversity in Smash. And even then, we're mainly talking about Black characters here. Anyway, I know there will be a ton of excuses & justifications as to why Smash continues to lack Black characters, & I'll get to many of those throughout this thread. But the fact of the matter is that even if there are few options, they do exist. And in a roster that's supposed to be a celebration of gaming, I find it hard to believe that there's not one Black character worth celebrating.


BUT THERE ARE DARK-SKINNED ALTERNATE COSTUMES FOR INKLING & VILLAGER

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Yes, they do have dark-skinned alts, & those are most certainly appreciated (especially Villager's, who got theirs at the last minute......resulting in an unfortunate scenario that I'll talk about later). But they're nothing but a band-aid for a gushing wound within the context of Smash's current situation, basically table-scraps. To better describe what I mean, I'd like you to imagine a scenario where Injustice 2 didn't have any characters who were Black by default. In said scenario, the only ways we would get Black characters would be through John Stewart (an alternate costume for Hal Jordan), Black Lightning (an alternate costume for Raiden), & Vixen (an alternate costume for Cheetah). Are these alternate costumes with unique voice lines appreciated, oh most certainly. They even went as far as to give them unique dialogue interactions with the other characters. But are they substitutes for Black characters who are the main event with movesets centered around them, hell no. If anything, Black Lightning & Vixen should have been the defaults (John as well, but one could make an argument for Hal). Here, we're basically being given scraps & are expected to be happy with them. Well, they aren't enough, far from it. Alternate costumes are no substitute for characters who are primarily & inarguably Black. And if I may go on a tangent, Sakurai needs to stop beating around the bush & honor the wishes of Aya Kyogoku & Co. at Nintendo EPD Group 5 by bringing the Villager more in line with their modern proportions from New Leaf onwards. New Horizons has a slew of unique hair options that can & should be pulled from, especially afro-centric hair styles.


SHOULDN'T UNIQUE GAMEPLAY BE MORE IMPORTANT?

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True, I do appreciate the fact that the last few DLC characters have all brought something new to the table. But not every character has to rock the boat mechanically. And even then, who's to say that a Black character can't be mechanically fun to play? And to be honest, this argument against Black characters is very much rooted in racism with the idea that a Black character is inherently an inferior option mechanically. Marina could bring new weapons from Splatoon 2 as well as flexing her engineering prowess with enemies from the single-player mode. Twintelle could have different ARMS from Min Min while also using her Star Aura to slow down opponents. Barret could carry over mechanics from FFVII Remake in the same way Cloud carried over the Limit Break from FFVII overall. Mr. Sandman could be a full-on realization of Giga Mac's old moveset in Smash 3DS/Wii U before they changed Final Smashes across the board (though modified to better fit Mr. Sandman's character). Nagoriyuki could carry over his blood gauge from Guilty Gear -Strive-, forcing you to not go too wild with the special moves you use. There's quite a bit of potential to be found in the Black characters we have already. Special thanks to Gestault (from Era) for bringing this topic to my attention, as it was a huge oversight on my part compared to when I first uploaded this thread. But in short, if Sakurai could make Piranha Plant interesting, he can make a cool moveset for a Black character. Speaking of Piranha Plant...


BUT SMASH IS A ROSTER FILLED WITH ANIMALS, ROBOTS, ALIENS, & OTHER UNIQUE CREATURES. WHY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF BLACK CHARACTERS?

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This is more of a question I see asked outside of Era, & one I expect to be on the minds of those lurking in this thread. And the answer is quite simple: Because there are still humanoid characters on the roster, a lot of them. The presence of non-humanoid characters doesn't negate the fact the need for diversity amongst the human characters. Representation matters, it always has & it always will. So to use these characters as an excuse to hand-wave the need for representation on the roster is nothing but a whataboutism meant to shift the conversation away from Smash's lack of melanin. And besides, if the roster can have fucking Piranha Plant (to be clear, I don't hate Piranha Plant), it can have a Black character. Before you say anything, yes, I know that Piranha Plant is the obligatory "WTF" pick. But that doesn't change my point, they can very easily justify a Black character if Sakurai & Co. can justify us getting a playable potted plant. A decent point of comparison on this front is Overwatch, a roster that's filled with Omnics (Zenyatta, Bastion, Orisa, & Echo), a gorilla (Winston), & a hamster piloting a ball-shaped mech (Hammond/Wrecking Ball). But all the same, that didn't negate the complaints about the game's lack of Black women. Even if this will eventually be addressed in Overwatch 2 with the introduction of Sojourn, there's no excuse for the Overwatch team at Blizzard waiting so long to include a Black woman. That's not even mentioning a number of missed opportunities for cool Black characters (Ex: the original concept for Mercy). But I'll stop myself there before I get too off-topic. The point is that these characters exist, yes. But they have nothing to do with the current issues of the roster, nor do they negate the problem. Don't listen to any arguments trying to use the likes of Ridley, Pikachu, & Piranha Plant as a means to dismiss Smash's melanin deficiency.


ISN'T SMASH'S LACK OF MELANIN THE INDUSTRY'S FAULT?

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Well, yes & no. It is true that the industry is heavily skewed towards white men (or Japanese men in the case of the Japanese gaming industry, which does somewhat complicate the discussion regarding Japan-made games), with us only getting a prominent Black character every once-in-a-blue-moon (though said blue moon has been coming around a bit more in recent years). And because of this, light-skinned male protagonists tend to be the norm in the industry. Even regarding gender-choice characters, the male version of the character tends to be the default (another problem Smash has, one that I've talked about plenty). In the odd chance that we do get a female protagonist (which we have started to get more of in recent years, far more than we've gotten Black characters), they also tend to be pale. The anti-Blackness of the gaming industry at large is a whole other discussion that honestly deserves its own thread, one that I may get around to at some point. But for the sake of this thread, it can be summed up with the fact that the industry in general is heavily skewed towards white people (or, again, Japanese people in Japan-based companies like Nintendo & Capcom). Because of this, there aren't exactly a whole lot of options for Smash to pull from with regards to Black characters. With that being said...


OPTIONS EXIST FOR POTENTIAL BLACK CHARACTERS

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I spent an entire month talking about Black characters in gaming (check it out if you haven't already), so I'm well aware of the options Nintendo & Sakurai have to work with. Granted, some of them may already be assist trophies (Rodin), Mii costumes (Barret), exist in the game in other capacities (Twintelle & Doc Louis), or just aren't front-runners for their respective franchises due to Smash's general focus on poster children (Marina & Shinobu), but there are options. But these are more imposed hurdles by Sakurai & Nintendo for focusing on poster children. And even then, Sakurai has been shown to be willing to forego the main character or main poster child when it suits the situation (see Min Min & Pyra/Mythra). The fact that he has he hasn't once considered "Hey, this roster is looking pretty pale. Maybe we should add a Black character." is a disappointment in & of itself. And no, we shouldn't have to wait for a magical Black main character from a new Nintendo EPD franchise for us to get a Black character (but by all means, Nintendo EPD, get on that). Even if we go by that logic, Twintelle already fills that qualification as per Yabuki's own "Everyone in ARMS is a protagonist" explainer & Lifeline is basically the poster child for Apex Legends on her own, with both of them being among the most popular characters in their franchises. Barret & Doc Louis are among the most prolific Black characters in gaming. Not to mention Marina, Shinobu, & Rodin being popular in their own rights. Hell, the fact that Sakurai didn't even consider the character who the ARMS team themselves considered one of the top 2 most popular characters in the franchise (but rather Ninjara, a character who's primarily popular in Japan, being #2 over there behind only Min Min) is disappointing in & of itself, with him putting his love of ninjas & edgelords (as well as general favorites in Japan specifically) over the need for more melanin in the roster (who happens to be #2 worldwide, albeit despite Twintelle's lack of popularity in Japan). To be clear, I have nothing against Min Min. She's the #1 most popular ARMS character, Yabuki's favorite, & Smash's first Chinese character (so I better not catch any of you being sinophobic in the replies). To be clear, Sakurai has cited that Nintendo picks the characters. However, going by his own accounts of Nintendo only really asking for characters from ARMS, Xenoblade 2, & Dragon Quest, it seems like Sakurai does have instances of being able to be more specific with Nintendo's general broad strokes. And in the case of ARMS, he had a golden opportunity to add a Black character that he didn't even remotely consider. Not to mention him throwing out potential Black character after potential Black character both before & after Twintelle. As someone who otherwise respects Sakurai as a director, it's saddening to see him continue to not take diversity seriously in the biggest fighting game ever. And it sucks that Min Min, a character who is a great pick by all accounts & easily the 2nd best choice they could have gone with for ARMS, came at the cost of our best chance at a Black character (a character who, as far as we know, Sakurai didn't remotely consider). In general, various other Japanese companies are slowly-but-surely starting to get the memo regarding the need for Black characters. From Capcom to Bandai Namco to SNK to Arc System Works to even (potentially, going by leaks for Project Athia) Square Enix, they're all starting to include more Black characters in their games. Hell, even Nintendo is making more Black characters in-house (hence me mentioning Twintelle & Marina, but there's also Abdonis in Ring Fit Adventure). Sure, you could say that the aforementioned companies can actually make original characters. But what's stopping Sakurai from pulling from these games? Sakurai may not have the responsibility to change all the bad parts of the industry with regards to its anti-Blackness, but he's still in a position where he can highlight the melanin that exists. In short, Smash's options for Black characters are growing, it's high time to capitalize on that fact.


WHAT ABOUT OTHER RECENT MELANIN-DEFICIENT FIGHTING GAME ROSTERS?

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As mentioned before, Dragon Ball FighterZ & Granblue Fantasy: Versus are the only other modern fighting games right now with zero primarily & inarguably Black characters in their rosters. In the case of GBVS, it has four ambiguously dark-skinned characters (as of when this thread was posted) via Vaseraga, Beelzebub, Zooey, & Eustace (with Beelzebub enforcing the "dark skin = evil" colorist stereotype, more on that in celes' colorism thread). These two games are actually solid points of comparison considering that both are based on pre-existing franchises with little-to-no original characters. Now I say "little" because DBFZ does have one original character, Android 21. This does present an opportunity for Dragon Ball FighterZ 2 to create a Black character of their own. It's no secret that Dragon Ball is kinda starved for melanin in general (there's Uub, but he seems to be Indian-coded based on my research on him). Though given that it's a classic shonen battle manga/anime, that's to be expected. This unfortunate flaw also extends to the lack of women, something that DBFZ has been criticized by plenty (myself included) about. As for Granblue, there's only really two primarily & inarguably Black characters I could find in the form of Spinnah & J.J. (both of whom should certainly get in GBVS). Everyone else I was able to look up regarding Granblue are mainly ambiguously dark-skinned characters (another issue with Japan-made games, though it's slowly gotten better in recent years.....albeit not fast enough). Better than DBFZ's general lack of options, mind you, but not by much. Still, even if Smash has fewer options than fighting games like Street Fighter, ARMS, & Tekken that do create original characters, it still has more to pull from than the aforementioned 2 other melanin-starved fighting games. That, in addition to the fact that Smash's roster is several times larger than either DBFZ or GBVS, only makes matters worse for Smash. And while they aren't super-recent, there's also BlazBlue: Central Fiction & Under Night In-Birth that don't have any primarily & inarguably Black characters (though, like GBVS, they do have ambiguously dark-skinned characters). At least with the former, Arc System Works seems to have learned their lesson for Guilty Gear -Strive- (or at least Team Red did, not so much Team Blue.....yet). But French Bread should be called out on their lack of Black characters & they need to do better going forward (since they can very easily make original Black characters). Though as with the others, Smash's roster is still larger & is the bigger fighting game overall, so it should still be held to a high standard. Special thanks to Raftina (from Era) for bringing this to my attention. With that said, if you think the lack of Black characters in Smash was bad enough on its own...


LET'S NOT FORGET THE RACIST STEREOTYPES AMONGST THE SPIRITS

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This was a problem mentioned not long after the game's launch (& was actually pointed out here on Era), but there are a number of racist stereotypes found in some of the spirit battles. These are primarily the "Black people = monkeys" & "all Black people are thieves/criminals/etc." stereotypes, invoked by the Tac = Villager spirit battle as well as the Dee Jay = Diddy Kong & Mr. Sandman = Donkey Kong spirit battles. That said, there seem to be other explanations for the Villager & DK situations. For the former, Villager's last two colors didn't get dark skin until after E3 2018, which can be considered a relatively last-minute change in development given that the game came out December of that year. As for DK's spirit battle acting as Mr. Sandman, the two of them are late-game bosses for Punch-Out!! (Wii), with Mr. Sandman being the final boss & DK being the secret boss of the game. However, there's no such excuse for Diddy acting as Dee Jay. You could say it's because of their kicks (hence the use of Side B) & their love of music, but it's not like Diddy Kong displays the latter for any of his taunts. All the same, regardless of the justification, there's no excuse for these to be in the game over 2 years later. This also applies to Villager, as the "alt changed late in development" excuse only really applied for the circumstances that brought about that unfortunate scenario. If nothing is done to change it, said justification loses weight. And we know thanks to the Pyra/Mythra update that Sakurai & Bandai Namco are fully capable of changing base game spirit battles, so that isn't an excuse either. These simply shouldn't be in the game at all (the racist stereotypes, the actual spirits can stay with new representatives for their battles), especially considering the roster's continued lack of melanin. And it's not like this is the first time a Sakurai-made game that features racist stereotypes, as the original design of the Wham Bam Rock boss fight in Kirby Super Star invoked the infamous blackface racist stereotype. Of course, this was eventually fixed in Kirby Super Star Ultra, but it happened after Sakurai already left HAL. So it's a shame that Sakurai didn't learn from his past mistakes regarding such harmful stereotypes. This is a trend that sadly continued with a more recent incident...


WHAT ABOUT THE PIC OF THE DAY WHERE RODIN WAS HOSED BY MARIO?

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In case you missed the controversy, the Pic of the Day that Sakurai posted on September 16th, 2021 depicted Mario using his Down B (F.L.U.D.D.) to attempt to hose Rodin while Peach was unfazed by all of it. This creates parallels to the use of water cannons on civil rights activists during the Civil Rights Movement, most notably during the Brimingham Campaign. There was a separate thread on the topic, but it was later locked. But since it relates to the topic of Smash's anti-Blackness, I thought it made sense that I add this section & give my thoughts. Even in spite of this, I do not think that Sakurai is racist. It does however show that he has a massive blindspot for stuff like this, be it the implications this image has or the racist stereotypes that are found in certain spirit battles (as mentioned earlier). So to be clear, I believe that this situation was unintentional on Sakurai's part. But with that being said, I do very much recognize the implications & they are bad (especially considering that Rodin is the only Black character who can participate in a fight, albeit as an Assist Trophy). If anything, it shows that Sakurai needs to consult Nintendo of America on such matters to avoid similar problems going forward. Though despite all my attempts to view the image recently on Twitter, Era, or Discord on either phone or laptop, it doesn't seem to load. So perhaps Sakurai recognized the racist implications & used Twitter Cards to make it blank (something I didn't know was possible until Urban Scholar from Era pointed it out to me). Still, it shouldn't have happened. And even if it wasn't intentional (which I believe is the case), Sakurai should consult those well-versed on these topics to avoid further anti-Black implications in or around Smash going forward.


WHAT DOES ALL THIS SAY ABOUT MASAHIRO SAKURAI?

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Like I said earlier, I don't think Masahiro Sakurai is racist. I do however believe that there's another more fitting word to describe him: complicit. Sakurai is complicit about maintaining his view of the gaming industry, not thinking for a moment that there should be more diversity in his works. This also extends to educating himself on harmful racist stereotypes, as this has been something he's struggled with in a few of his works. Even with the Mr. Game & Watch forward smash that invoked a racist Indigenous stereotype (which was eventually fixed), you would think that he would have looked up the GBA remake of the mini game that said reference came from to see that Nintendo changed it for the very reason that eventually led to the change happening in Smash. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the gaming industry, but that also means being able to point out the flaws of said industry & push for the powers that be to do better. And that's the issue with Sakurai: As far as we know, he is content with the industry as it is now, & said gaming landscape is still very much flawed. He sees Smash as a celebration of the industry, & that's very much true. But someone else on Era described it best: Sakurai is very much behind the times in terms of progressive points like diversity & respectful representation for women & people of color. Even if the gaming industry at large is very much skewed against Black people, Sakurai is in a position where he could at least throw in a few Black characters to combat this, to show what the gaming industry can be. But he doesn't, sticking with the status quo until a magical leading Black character in a Nintendo EPD franchise comes along. And that's what makes Sakurai complicit. My hope is that someone in charge (be it Sakurai himself or one of the decision-makers at Nintendo) realizes the flaws of Smash's roster & begins to make strides towards correcting this. And while correcting the aforementioned racist spirits is a necessary step towards this, another one that must be taken is to start including Black characters on the roster. I don't have much hope for this happening in Ultimate at this point, but I hope we can make enough noise about this topic to make sure that a primarily & inarguably Black character is included in the next Smash game after Ultimate. So if you're still wondering "Why is Smash Ultimate anti-Black?", the gaming industry being anti-Black does play a major role in it. But it's also the fact that Sakurai & the other decision-makers behind Smash's roster continue to uphold this status quo, not seeing any problem with said anti-Blackness. Well, it is a problem, one that has to be fixed as soon as possible. We shouldn't have to wait for the younger blood at Nintendo to finally bring about said change (though they are making strides on that front between Splatoon/Animal Crossing & Mario Kart/ARMS teams). The rest of Nintendo, as well as Sakurai, need to do the same.
 
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Thank you so much for bringing this thread over. Even though the end of Smash's DLC is almost over, the conversation should not go away by any means.
 
I hate that my wanted characters for the final are Phoenix, Eggman or Waluigi. Not getting Elma or Twintelle were such a let down. I'd like Marina purely for liking the character and would make sense to cover both the Idol and Octo aspects of the series I just never really got into the Inklings play-style.
 
Shocked by that hose situation. I had seen this thread before (thanks for making it, btw), but that pic of the day is news to me.
 
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As much as I like Min-Min as a character, missing out on Twintelle was regrettable.

Like, that was the best shot so far.
 
Still upset that Min Min got in over Twintelle. I think she was the only black character on my want list. The industry is really lacking on this front.
 
Steve is ambiguously dark-skinned according to his shithead creator.
So he is dark, just with no specific real life background? I'll admit I have no idea how Minecraft and ethnicities works, so I'm genuinely curious where he falls in the picture of this topic.
 
Smash is like a living museum of gaming where you can play with some of the more loved franchises within Nintendo and outside. It also shows that, indeed, the gaming industry and the diversity within really needs some step up. I do think that the latest two passes have shown this has been improving. And I mean that as diversity as a whole. Mainly because we have seen more female characters join Smash even though compared to the whole roster it is less.

Looking at gaming as a whole I do believe we are getting to a point where female characters and characters of colour are becoming more prominent as main characters.

I hope that by the time we get a new Smash game we have more diversity as well in gaming.
 
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So he is dark, just with no specific real life background? I'll admit I have no idea how Minecraft and ethnicities works, so I'm genuinely curious where he falls in the picture of this topic.
Even if you do count him it's still an issue that every dark skinned character in the game still has an astrix (unfortunately even Elma falls into this) so that's a problem.
 
Broken down very well. I didn't even notice half of this even as a black guys the picture of the day is very alarming as well. I really hope Nintendo starts to diversify their protagonists in the future.
 
The DLC has concluded and the problem of PoC representation remains unaddressed.

Shame.

As time goes on, Twintelle's omission becomes an even bigger missed oportunity.

On another note, the fact that they didn't continue with echoes into the DLC is another missed opportunity. Doc Louis would have been a slam dunk as a Little Mac echo or a clone.
 
Twintelle is the only character that made a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a major black character worthy of being in Smash off the top of my head which is an industry wide issue.
 
Twintelle is the only character that made a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a major black character worthy of being in Smash off the top of my head which is an industry wide issue.
This. I'd hold ongoing fighting game series accountable for not adding diverse characters, but when a game like Smash presents itself as the allstar greatest hits game, its roster is more a reflection of the game industry's characters from the 1980s to 2010s being predominantly white. There isn't really any ill intent with its character choices, Cloud is just more iconic than Barrett. Kazuya is just more iconic than Leroy.

That said, Twintelle was such an obvious pick for Smash Bros over Min-Min and a huge missed opportunity.
 
Hopefully we get Twintelle in the eventual Smash 5. She definitely has the best chance of the available options.
 
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One more that is super upset that min min got in instead of Twintelle,
Min Min is a PoC, at least. Though it doesn’t really help the issue of the absence of black characters, it is better than if they just put Spring Man.
 
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That said, Twintelle was such an obvious pick for Smash Bros over Min-Min and a huge missed opportunity.

It's sad that she is the second most popular Arms rep and was not even considered. The Ninja was.
 
Here's hoping we get better diversity in the future.

If we get another ARMS rep in the next Smash and it ain't Twintelle then something in the discussion process went terribly wrong.
 
The default Octoling feels like the most likely pick to me, as she’s the most logical second pick for Splatoon, a series which could definitely justify a second rep, and she’s the protagonist of the Octo Expansion DLC. The issues are that she’s more ambiguously dark skinned as opposed to the more black coded Marina, and she’s not human, but I think she still seems like a no brainer if a new smash happens.
 
Thanks for bringing this thread over. It's a massively important issue that just hasn't been given the attention it deserves, and it's one sore spot I have with Smash Ultimate.

Really hoping we get characters like Twintelle and Marina next time out, as well as Urbosa (not black, but the gender ratio also leaves something to be desired here, too).
 
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The default Octoling feels like the most likely pick to me, as she’s the most logical second pick for Splatoon, a series which could definitely justify a second rep, and she’s the protagonist of the Octo Expansion DLC. The issues are that she’s more ambiguously dark skinned as opposed to the more black coded Marina, and she’s not human, but I think she still seems like a no brainer if a new smash happens.
Octoling is another reason I think the lack of echoes is a missed opportunity
 
It's a problem to be sure, and probably one of the main knocks against the roster as is.

Marina and Twintelle would have been relatively easy inclusions. The former might even still a shot with Splatoon still being popular, but another Smash is years away so her time may have passed. There's also no guarantee that ARMS will get a sequel, which might mean it would be less of a priority when it comes to more characters being included.

...not that should necessarily be an obstacle. When you have the various Fire Emblem echoes and Piranha Plant, it must be frustrating that effort is being placed there as opposed to characters that can provide black representation. Things like relevancy and popularity don't really apply when you consider some of the characters that are already in.

Although, that being said, I do think it plays a factor when third party fighters are being looked into. Let's assume for a moment that FF7 and Street Fighter get new fighters in a future Smash.

Balrog almost certainly wouldn't get in over Chun-Li, and Barret almost certainly wouldn't get in over Tifa. Then consider Resident Evil, Guilty Gear, Devil May Cry...these potential guest franchises have few, if any, black characters of prominence. And even if they do, the established main faces would take priority - and almost none of them are black.

I've only mentioned Japanese franchises so far, but the problem is still prevalent in the West, if to a slightly lesser estate. DOOM, Fortnite, Tomb Raider...even if they're ultimately just unlikely to be considered, they suffer the same issue. There are exceptions of course - CJ from GTA has been mentioned a couple of times, though I'm unsure how well that would actually be received.

It probably therefore needs to fall on to Nintendo to create more black characters of prominence - potentially as the leading faces of a new franchise if nothing else. This is a general issue with the industry as a whole, but Nintendo especially need to make more of an effort.

This is a bit of a ramble, my apologies - and as a white man, my reading is probably a bit skewed. I do have concerns with the lack of LGBT rep, but this is arguably an even deeper void that needs to be filled.
 
genuine question from an uninformed Splatoon observer, how is Marina more black coded than the other dark-skinned characters?
She's darker skinned and references Tupac in one of her outfits. Though to be fair, Pearl is very pale and references Biggie Smalls.
 
She's darker skinned and references Tupac in one of her outfits. Though to be fair, Pearl is very pale and references Biggie Smalls.
So it's the darker skin then, okay. That does make sense I suppose, iirc the default Octoling looks like it could just be tan. Thanks for the reply
 
So it's the darker skin then, okay. That does make sense I suppose, iirc the default Octoling looks like it could just be tan. Thanks for the reply
There's a few other things, like in the expansion, there's dialogue alluding to discrimination against Octolings that is clearly meant to mirror real world prejudices. This arugably applies to all Octolings, but Marina is the one that catches comments like "I don't see species", and "You're very articulate". It's actually pretty surprising they used Octo Expansion to showcase casual racism amongst the otherwise heroic characters.
 
There's a few other things, like in the expansion, there's dialogue alluding to discrimination against Octolings that is clearly meant to mirror real world prejudices. This arugably applies to all Octolings, but Marina is the one that catches comments like "I don't see species", and "You're very articulate". It's actually pretty surprising they used Octo Expansion to showcase casual racism amongst the otherwise heroic characters.
Huh, that's pretty cool. Splatoon is the most interesting Nintendo series right now by far
 
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No need to mince words, the guy just straight up doesn't care about black people.
come on man, indifference and hate are way two different things.
Here's hoping we get better diversity in the future.

If we get another ARMS rep in the next Smash and it ain't Twintelle then something in the discussion process went terribly wrong.
I feel Smash is more a mirror of the industry wide (and the problem of minorities on leading roles)

That said, Twintelle was such an obvious pick for Smash Bros over Min-Min and a huge missed opportunity.
why? why do people act as if Min Min were not a minority representation and instead as if Ribbon Girl has been added
 
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No need to mince words, the guy just straight up doesn't care about black people.
This is not me being dismissive in any way but I think that’s a loaded statement to say he’s intentionally dismissive of an entire race - that’s unfair. I find it hard to believe that Sakurai cares little for black people or other people of color. The lack of representation goes deep and even if he had chosen a different Splatoon character it still wouldn’t have been enough in my view. They need to do more than that, and I think a lot of great points are suggested above.

There’s a bigger problem to address that doesn’t land at Sakurai, and certainly not at Nintendo alone (though they are behind the curve the most).

When people noted Sora was the biggest get in a while that’s because the character is well known, and one on the level of Sephiroth too. The problem I think is that developers and publishers have not made enough black characters with name value who are the focus of that many huge games that would align with Smash. By that I mean games that would be recognisable to a Nintendo audience. Looking over this list I’m struggling to pick out names that Nintendo fans would get recognize and get excited by and large for a Smash announcement: Barrett (another FF7), four Punch Out characters (which seem to be the best picks) and perhaps Adam Hunter/Balrog from SoR/SF would be good picks for a final Smash character but wouldn’t have the impact. I know this isn’t related to the last pick, but the overall problem and I guess that list shows a lot of characters who could and should have been included much much earlier, and that’s Sakurai/Nintendo’s biggest crime here (they had options) but until black people/poc are given more of a lead role in games generally and by that I mean games that will appeal or be recognizable to a Nintendo audience we might not see meaningful change in future games. Time to hold Nintendo’s feet to the flames I think.
 
This is not me being dismissive in any way but I think that’s a loaded statement to say he’s intentionally dismissive of an entire race - that’s unfair. I find it hard to believe that Sakurai cares little for black people or other people of color. The lack of representation goes deep and even if he had chosen a different Splatoon character it still wouldn’t have been enough in my view. They need to do more than that, and I think a lot of great points are suggested above.

There’s a bigger problem to address that doesn’t land at Sakurai, and certainly not at Nintendo alone (though they are behind the curve the most).

When people noted Sora was the biggest get in a while that’s because the character is well known, and one on the level of Sephiroth too. The problem I think is that developers and publishers have not made enough black characters with name value who are the focus of that many huge games that would align with Smash. By that I mean games that would be recognisable to a Nintendo audience. Looking over this list I’m struggling to pick out names that Nintendo fans would get recognize and get excited by and large for a Smash announcement: Barrett (another FF7), four Punch Out characters (which seem to be the best picks) and perhaps Adam Hunter/Balrog from SoR/SF would be good picks for a final Smash character but wouldn’t have the impact. I know this isn’t related to the last pick, but the overall problem and I guess that list shows a lot of characters who could and should have been included much much earlier, and that’s Sakurai/Nintendo’s biggest crime here (they had options) but until black people/poc are given more of a lead role in games generally and by that I mean games that will appeal or be recognizable to a Nintendo audience we might not see meaningful change in future games. Time to hold Nintendo’s feet to the flames I think.
Pretty much this. But I see already change in the gaming industry.
 
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I've mentioned this before but Smash tends to draw from three categories of characters (except for low effort clones that are thrown in as a "dessert"):

Main/major playable characters: Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, etc. as well as Luigi, Diddy Kong, etc., the second group having some overlap with category 2. Usually either the character on the box, or a significant playable character that is seen as equal or almost equal to the main character. If the main character is not represented in a game, the representative will almost always be the second primary character who often is perceived as sharing the title of main character - Robin and Pyra being the main examples of this. But, almost always, it is the main character or mascot that gets added to Smash first.

Significant recurring supporting characters: Zelda, Peach, Palutena, Isabelle, etc. Characters that might not always be playable but are important to their home franchises overarching story and setting, which, most of these are female characters, which is problematic in its own right, but that's a topic for another day. Even if they're more passive characters, they're iconic to their franchises and have some sort of story role that we associate with them easily, and can be counted on to show up in many if not most of the games in the series.

Recurring villains/antagonists: Bowser, Ganondorf, Wolf, K. Rool, Dedede, Ridley, etc. Pretty self explanatory, the iconic bad guys of their respective franchises, whether they're straight up villains or some sort of boss/antagonist character. One-off villains almost never get included in Smash, these are usually the archenemies of the heroic characters and show up multiple times in different ways, Sephiroth being unique as the first third party villain in Smash history.

Pokemon is the only series that really lacks normal categorization like this, but the focus on starters is the closest thing to "main character" status, with Mewtwo acting as a sort of antagonist due to being based on his iconic portrayal from the anime, and Lucario as well being based on his heroic role from the anime. So that mostly leaves Jigglypuff, who was a semi-clone thrown into Smash 64 at the last minute, and Pichu, also a clone, who don't really fit into any of these categories.

Piranha Plant is also unique in this regard - you could perhaps classify it as a villain, but the intention was more to be a "surprise" character, so it makes sense that it defies categorization. Now, all that said...

We also know that Sakurai likes to use Smash to promote Japanese games as he feels disappointed that they sell less worldwide. So far the only western characters in Smash not owned by a Japanese company are Banjo-Kazooie and Steve/Alex, with Minecraft obviously being very popular in Japan and Banjo being something of a cult classic for older Japanese Nintendo fans - not necessarily overwhelmingly popular, but recognizable enough for that demographic as his original game sold decently in Japan and 90s Rare games were generally popular in Japan. Nintendo also has a well documented history of prioritizing Japanese audiences with their products that if you're on this forum I'm sure you're familiar with, and generally speaking, to put it bluntly, being a conservative company resistant to change even by Japanese gaming standards.

When you look at these barriers, assuming Sakurai is in charge of the next Smash in ~5 years, it is difficult for me to imagine much actually changing. We can talk about how great it would be for Sakurai to add this or that character, but if someone wants change, shouldn't they aim for some sort of tangible, material goal? I do not think Sakurai and Nintendo will totally rethink how they add characters to include more black fighters. I think this is a fruitless thought exercise if you actually want to change things. I don't know how you change it, or how you raise awareness, or what channels you go through. But I think we have to be realistic, when Travis Touchdown is already something of a longshot, what are the chance they include Shinobu? Or Doc Louis, when Punch-Out hasn't gotten a new game in over 13 years? I think the criticism has to be more pointed than just talking about the lack of black characters. I also think it's really unlikely they will bother with western IPs that have virtually no traction in Japan - but I would be happy if they prove me wrong on this in the next Smash.

Rodin is an interesting choice as after three games you could definitely argue Bayonetta is due for another character - I'm not familiar enough with Bayonetta to really speak to it, but I somewhat get the impression he falls under category 2, as a significant recurring supporting character. However, I think he is unfortunately going to have competition with Jeanne, even if she is only a clone/semi-clone. Still, with the advent of Bayonetta 3, Rodin might get something to work with there. It will depend though on how generous going forward they are with adding third party characters to established IPs, and surely that competition will be intense.

Twintelle really was the best chance, and I think people should be honest and say they think it should have been Twintelle instead of Min-Min, because there was zero chance both got added to the roster and they're too dissimilar to share a skeleton and moves like Pyra/Mythra. Her best chance is for ARMS to get a sequel and for her to feature in it, both of which are very theoretical ideas right now.

Marina I feel is probably not going to have a significant role in Splatoon 3 and I feel like the squid idol characters are a bit too much in the background to qualify for the role 2 of being significant supporting characters, especially if they get swapped out every game. I think the next Splatoon character will undeniably be Octoling and will likely feature Splatoon 2 weapons. That said, Splatoon is a series I could see getting two characters in the next game, especially if the base game newcomer roster is closer to ~15 like Brawl and 4, as Ultimate's development was taken up largely by returning veterans. So maybe there could be something there.

Genuinely, and I know Neoxon will bristle at hearing this, I think the best chance for a black character in the next Smash is Nintendo developing a significant black character in one of their headline IPs. Whether it's a black Mario princess, a black Xenoblade/FE character, I think that is the best shot. It's not fair and it's not right but that's my POV. I can't will into existence with my mind Nintendo and Sakurai into being more forward-thinking in the roster diversity.

Overall my feeling is I would temper expectations as unless Nintendo goes through some major structural overhauls in the next decade I think this is going to remain a backburner issue for them. They are a corporation and they have no current reason to even think about stretching out to this extent as they just put out the biggest selling fighting game of all time. Again, it ain't fair and it ain't right, but that's capitalism for you. Other Japanese companies are picking up the slack, but candidly, I think that is because a lot of them have lost headway in the Japanese market and are aiming to be more international. Nintendo is obviously an international company, but I feel they still like to think of themselves as primarily for Japanese consumers and make their creative and business decisions around that. So, I think a major shakeup has to happen within Nintendo, but I don't know how to incentivize that.

Anyway, that's my honest thoughts.
 
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Going by most of the Roaster, with some exception (Pirahna Plant as example)
I think the series picked up are weighted by 3 standards (not in any particular order)
1) 1st Party
Of Course Nintendo is gonna prioritize their own series, not only is faster (and free Marketing, right Baylet and Korrin) but also saves them lot of leg work and Money in licensing 3rd party characters

2) Legacy
Series that have left a mark in the industry. (King of Fighter, Tekken, Street Fighter, Game n Watch, Castlevania)

3) Popularity
Ultimately the point of a roaster not only is variety of gameplay but to lure different kind of people to buy the game. and in the case of DLC, Buy the character, and here Popularity weights a lot (MinMin, Sora, Bayonetta)
 
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A really great read! I feel like Twintelle was such a missed opportunity. We really should have a more diverse Smash roster, as well as greater diversity in Nintendo games generally.
 
I hope that we have a more diverse roster in the next iteration. As OP mentioned, the options are there.

As a very hegemonic society I consider understandable that, by default, japanese devs doesn't see diversity in the same light of us. In this case, I think it would be NOA or NOE responsibility to make them aware of the importance of those values. At the same time, even though the diversity talk is old, in the last few years most of the big companies started hiring minorities to important positions and created positions related to diversity. If Nintendo followed this trend, I believe they will really improve the choices in the next iteration but maybe those changes didn't come in time while they were developing Smash Ultimate.


About the DLC characters, I think that the problem lies on the the lack of Nintendo black protagonists and their focus on the hype propaganda. I'm only talking about Nintendo characters because using characters from other companies doesn't depend only on them. The sad truth is, when compared to other companies, Nintendo is really lagging behind on diversity of their protagonists. I'm a bit out of touch on saying what is popular or not but, within the possibilities you brought OP, I don't believe that they would generate more buzz than the ones Nintendo used.


EDIT: My take on your choices OP was because I'm only recognized Barret, the trainer from punch out. The two others I think that are from Arms and Splatoon for obvious reasons but never saw them. And the remaning ones I'm clueless
 
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Already said it plenty of times before, and it's not meant to offend anyone, it's just the reality of this industry and of Smash's design goal.

Good luck finding a popular black character to represent a third party franchise that fit into smash (GTA would be hard) and that can be put as first rep of that franchise (aka you won't choose Barrett before Cloud, and whether you like it or not, MinMin was more popular than Twintelle).
It's the same for the Doc Louis argument. Many games in it, but only big/popular ones can get multiple reps, and over time. Fire Emblem being the obvious exception.
It's not Marvel vs Capcom here (characters from less companies/less games/different medias/possibility to have OG/etc).

Should Nintendo make/push a black character in their games? Sure, I completely agreee. But that's another debate and not linked to Smash, a game that doesn't make original characters (I don't count Tabuu or whatever for obvious reasons) as it's a full on crossover game.
 
Already said it plenty of times before, and it's not meant to offend anyone, it's just the reality of this industry and of Smash's design goal.

Good luck finding a popular black character to represent a third party franchise that fit into smash (GTA would be hard) and that can be put as first rep of that franchise (aka you won't choose Barrett before Cloud, and whether you like it or not, MinMin was more popular than Twintelle).
It's the same for the Doc Louis argument. Many games in it, but only big/popular ones can get multiple reps, and over time. Fire Emblem being the obvious exception.
It's not Marvel vs Capcom here (characters from less companies/less games/different medias/possibility to have OG/etc).

Should Nintendo make/push a black character in their games? Sure, I completely agreee. But that's another debate and not linked to Smash, a game that doesn't make original characters (I don't count Tabuu or whatever for obvious reasons) as it's a full on crossover game.
Yeah, this is where I'm at with it. Smash Bros is mostly representing the Japanese industry, and Japan is indifferent to racial diversity. This obviously isn't good, but it is to be expected from a country that has a 98% ethnic majority.
 
Yeah, this is where I'm at with it. Smash Bros is mostly representing the Japanese industry, and Japan is indifferent to racial diversity. This obviously isn't good, but it is to be expected from a country that has a 98% ethnic majority.
Yeah, I've worked with Japanese developers in the past and they genuinely, honestly believe that their characters are a neutral blank slate that every single player everywhere can project themselves on. To them, Sora and Link are as Japanese as they are white to us.

I wouldn't put any of this down to malice or intentional racism, they just genuinely have a blind spot here and don't realise that there are fundamental differences in worldview from people outside their cultural sphere.

If anything, I would put the emphasis less on people like Sakurai and more on branches like NOA. America is Nintendo's largest single market, and by far the market where this discourse comes up the most, so they should be doing more to push back on Japan and trying to get more prominent black characters in Nintendo games who could eventually end up in Smash down the line.
 
Are there latinx fighters? Because if there aren't shouln't be more appropriate to say Smash is "anti-diversity" rather than "anti-black" ?
 
Not glad to have to have this thread but glad to have it over here it, too. Thanks for the effort and persistence, Neoxon.
 
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Are there latinx fighters? Because if there aren't shouln't be more appropriate to say Smash is "anti-diversity" rather than "anti-black" ?
It can be both at the same time.

And sadly I do think the lack of a Latino/a fighter is actually the fault of the industry since there are really almost no prominent candidates, in comparison to Black candidates which there are numerous that Nintendo/Sakurai could have chosen.
 
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Octoling is another reason I think the lack of echoes is a missed opportunity
Echoes are just a thing Sakurai made up to avoid criticism for his picks. There's been no consistency in regards to it. You have Ken who is an Echo of Ryu despite them playing nothing alike, yet neither Young Link nor Toon Link are Echo fighters when they're almost identical. Same thing for Dr. Mario when he's a clone through and through.
 
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