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RTTP Super Mario Odyssey Is Now 5 Years Old! 🎉

(Returned to the party)

Yoshifan31

Moblin
One of the best controlling games ever made.

'Too many moons' destroyed the discussion around this game. Such a myopic argument that completely ignores the fact that Odyssey will very well likely be the first game ever played by small children. Having easily accessible moons to progress allows for an a-la-carte difficulty setting.
It’s a valid game design issue. Small children played Mario 64 and Banjo as well, those games only required you to collect a fraction of the collectibles to progress so difficulty isn’t a problem, especially considering that Odyssey has an Assist Mode.

Therefore, the amount of moons is part of a core design issue that prevents the game to be a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine. In those games (as well as Banjo), each type of collectable had a purpose. Coins/notes were sort of breadcrumbs, Stars/Jiggies were the main objective and final rewards, everything in between was something that was too simple to be a Jiggy but too elaborate to be a note. They basically dictate the pacing of the game. In Odyssey, the “900 Moons” selling point ended up being a cop-out because you would expect from 3D Mario that they would be like Stars in Mario 64, but they end up being closer to Koroks. This affects the level design as well, Mario 64 and Sunshine’s levels were very memorable and had unique scenarios behind most of the Stars/Shines. You didn’t need a map at all, every part of the level had a clear purpose. Odyssey had this pseudo-open world thing where you have a lot of negative space between pretty small points of interest. This is the main reason why I don’t buy that one image about 3D Mario design philosophies, they don’t have the same structure or level design at all, it doesn’t build upon Mario 64 or Sunshine so I wouldn’t call it an evolution of those games. In Odyssey you have the main objective which is basically a Galaxy-like linear romp, while the secret areas with SMB1 underground music are closer to 3D World levels, each of those have two Moons. So, going back to the Moons, a lot of them are simply uninvolving to collect, that’s why I didn’t bother to get all 900 and that’s coming from a completionist whose most cherished gaming memory is getting all 120 Stars in Mario 64. Once I did the Dark Side in Odyssey and once I figured out that the remaining Moons were obtained by either talking to Toadette after accomplishing vapid, achievement-like requirements or doing ground pounds in certain spots, I felt like I was done and that I saw everything the game had to offer, I didn’t feel like grinding coins with the Luigi stuff. That’s not why I play Mario, 64 and Sunshine were more interesting and involving than that, everything had a purpose, even stuff like Blue Coins and Pachinko.

It’s still the main reason why I bought a Switch and probably still my favorite game on it. It was what the series needed after years of milking the 2D games (didn’t like 3D World btw, didn’t play Land if that’s any different). But it’s still not a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine, those games had a great core design from the start. That’s why despite Odyssey being still a fun game, I don’t look back upon it as fondly as pretty much every other 3D Mario except 3D World, the open world-like game design trapping where every collectable is the same and there’s a bunch of them so you don’t miss any prevents the game from being as good as the others. This approach leads to the game having a somewhat homogeneous pacing. I could talk about my favorite Stars/Shines in 64/Sunshine for a long time but I don’t have as much to say about Odyssey
 

Marce-chan

Chain Chomp
Pronouns
They/Them
It’s a masterpiece. Enough said.

Those leftover files in the 3D All-Stars launcher paint a potentially interesting picture for the next 3D Mario, but i’m still not sure how soon we’ll see it, since I do believe it competes with the next 2D Mario (in production for about as long) and Tokyo’s other project, the mysterious 2D action game. We’ll have to see which of them shows up next year.
I think we have a good shot at holiday 2023, since we're having open world Pokémon new gen this year and since 2020 had no mainline pokémon after Sw/Sh, I don't expect 2023 to have either. Unless they shockingly pull a Legends 2 but I don't think it's in any way likely we'll get anything before a remake in 2024.
Tears of the Kingdom is coming in May, and I really don't see ANY other big profile game outside of 3D Mario that can carry a holiday season. Well, 2D Mario maybe but those feel like H1 titles on Switch era...
 

Magic-Man

Sportsmates Enjoyer
Pronouns
He/Him
It’s a masterpiece. Enough said.

Those leftover files in the 3D All-Stars launcher paint a potentially interesting picture for the next 3D Mario, but i’m still not sure how soon we’ll see it, since I do believe it competes with the next 2D Mario (in production for about as long) and Tokyo’s other project, the mysterious 2D action game. We’ll have to see which of them shows up next year.
Wait which files?
 
0

YolkFolk

Bob-omb
It’s a valid game design issue. Small children played Mario 64 and Banjo as well, those games only required you to collect a fraction of the collectibles to progress so difficulty isn’t a problem, especially considering that Odyssey has an Assist Mode.

Therefore, the amount of moons is part of a core design issue that prevents the game to be a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine. In those games (as well as Banjo), each type of collectable had a purpose. Coins/notes were sort of breadcrumbs, Stars/Jiggies were the main objective and final rewards, everything in between was something that was too simple to be a Jiggy but too elaborate to be a note. They basically dictate the pacing of the game. In Odyssey, the “900 Moons” selling point ended up being a cop-out because you would expect from 3D Mario that they would be like Stars in Mario 64, but they end up being closer to Koroks. This affects the level design as well, Mario 64 and Sunshine’s levels were very memorable and had unique scenarios behind most of the Stars/Shines. You didn’t need a map at all, every part of the level had a clear purpose. Odyssey had this pseudo-open world thing where you have a lot of negative space between pretty small points of interest. This is the main reason why I don’t buy that one image about 3D Mario design philosophies, they don’t have the same structure or level design at all, it doesn’t build upon Mario 64 or Sunshine so I wouldn’t call it an evolution of those games. In Odyssey you have the main objective which is basically a Galaxy-like linear romp, while the secret areas with SMB1 underground music are closer to 3D World levels, each of those have two Moons. So, going back to the Moons, a lot of them are simply uninvolving to collect, that’s why I didn’t bother to get all 900 and that’s coming from a completionist whose most cherished gaming memory is getting all 120 Stars in Mario 64. Once I did the Dark Side in Odyssey and once I figured out that the remaining Moons were obtained by either talking to Toadette after accomplishing vapid, achievement-like requirements or doing ground pounds in certain spots, I felt like I was done and that I saw everything the game had to offer, I didn’t feel like grinding coins with the Luigi stuff. That’s not why I play Mario, 64 and Sunshine were more interesting and involving than that, everything had a purpose, even stuff like Blue Coins and Pachinko.

It’s still the main reason why I bought a Switch and probably still my favorite game on it. It was what the series needed after years of milking the 2D games (didn’t like 3D World btw, didn’t play Land if that’s any different). But it’s still not a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine, those games had a great core design from the start. That’s why despite Odyssey being still a fun game, I don’t look back upon it as fondly as pretty much every other 3D Mario except 3D World, the open world-like game design trapping where every collectable is the same and there’s a bunch of them so you don’t miss any prevents the game from being as good as the others. This approach leads to the game having a somewhat homogeneous pacing. I could talk about my favorite Stars/Shines in 64/Sunshine for a long time but I don’t have as much to say about Odyssey

I disagree with almost every word.

Looking at the average review scores for the media and user it also sounds like you’re in an extreme minority who think this.

Odyssey is also so much better than Sunshine, so much better designed from top to bottom, that there’s a huge gulf in quality between them.

Obviously everyone’s entitled to their own opinion but you should probably realise that in this instance yours is incredibly abstract.
 

Bowser Sr.

Octorok
Pronouns
He Him
I honestly did not find that the "art style" was ever misfitting the game in Odyssey. The art director was savvy enough to make sure that the Mario characters had more detailed textures and hairs and more in their designs, which helped close the gap between the traditional cartoony elements and the grittier ones, and also all of the realism in the game is blatantly done with an eye for absurdism and comedical contrast. It's not just 'normal humans talking to Mario', it is cartoonishly stiff and realistic humans talking to him, it is not just a detailed realistic dragon, it is an absurdly gritty and exaggerated caricature that becomes amusing thanks to the way it contrasts with Mario himself (along with his facial features being rather cartoony the more you stare at him). It is different from something like the upcoming Sonic game throwing those bright cartoons into detailed gritty landscapes with no rhyme or reason, there is an absurd tongue-in-cheek tone behind the way Odyssey did it that makes it fit into the world of Mario in it's own way.



It’s a valid game design issue. Small children played Mario 64 and Banjo as well, those games only required you to collect a fraction of the collectibles to progress so difficulty isn’t a problem, especially considering that Odyssey has an Assist Mode.

Therefore, the amount of moons is part of a core design issue that prevents the game to be a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine. In those games (as well as Banjo), each type of collectable had a purpose. Coins/notes were sort of breadcrumbs, Stars/Jiggies were the main objective and final rewards, everything in between was something that was too simple to be a Jiggy but too elaborate to be a note. They basically dictate the pacing of the game. In Odyssey, the “900 Moons” selling point ended up being a cop-out because you would expect from 3D Mario that they would be like Stars in Mario 64, but they end up being closer to Koroks. This affects the level design as well, Mario 64 and Sunshine’s levels were very memorable and had unique scenarios behind most of the Stars/Shines. You didn’t need a map at all, every part of the level had a clear purpose. Odyssey had this pseudo-open world thing where you have a lot of negative space between pretty small points of interest. This is the main reason why I don’t buy that one image about 3D Mario design philosophies, they don’t have the same structure or level design at all, it doesn’t build upon Mario 64 or Sunshine so I wouldn’t call it an evolution of those games. In Odyssey you have the main objective which is basically a Galaxy-like linear romp, while the secret areas with SMB1 underground music are closer to 3D World levels, each of those have two Moons. So, going back to the Moons, a lot of them are simply uninvolving to collect, that’s why I didn’t bother to get all 900 and that’s coming from a completionist whose most cherished gaming memory is getting all 120 Stars in Mario 64. Once I did the Dark Side in Odyssey and once I figured out that the remaining Moons were obtained by either talking to Toadette after accomplishing vapid, achievement-like requirements or doing ground pounds in certain spots, I felt like I was done and that I saw everything the game had to offer, I didn’t feel like grinding coins with the Luigi stuff. That’s not why I play Mario, 64 and Sunshine were more interesting and involving than that, everything had a purpose, even stuff like Blue Coins and Pachinko.

It’s still the main reason why I bought a Switch and probably still my favorite game on it. It was what the series needed after years of milking the 2D games (didn’t like 3D World btw, didn’t play Land if that’s any different). But it’s still not a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine, those games had a great core design from the start. That’s why despite Odyssey being still a fun game, I don’t look back upon it as fondly as pretty much every other 3D Mario except 3D World, the open world-like game design trapping where every collectable is the same and there’s a bunch of them so you don’t miss any prevents the game from being as good as the others. This approach leads to the game having a somewhat homogeneous pacing. I could talk about my favorite Stars/Shines in 64/Sunshine for a long time but I don’t have as much to say about Odyssey
Heavy disagree, first because "valid game design issue" implies it is objectively an issue, which I don't think it is, and second on the claim that this game is not a true sucessor to the original games because of frankly abstract decisions of what counts and what does not count as a worthy collectible. The minor moons in Odyssey are absolutely no different from the Blue Coins in Sunshine or the hidden green stars in 3D World/Galaxy, yet you are talking like they do not serve a purpose while at the same time praising the Blue Coins? Why? Does the fact that they are moons instead of a different yet identical-in-function collectible change the game that much? All of them are "reward for spending time poking around", and the game even goes out of its way to visually depict them differently since the 'important' ones have cutscenes and scenario changes triggered by collecting them.

It's a sandbox type Mario where you play and explore around the maps, if you're exploring and finding moons or exploring and finding blue coins that eventually are exchanged for Shines/Stars it makes absolutely no difference. In fact, the moons are superior in their implementation since there is atleast a manner of keeping track of the ones you found, unlike the Sunshine Blue Coins which were an exercise in frustration if you were not aware of which ones you had gotten and which ones you had not yet. It makes no sense to claim Odyssey's structure is untrue to the series when it is identical to those games, the only true major difference being that you are not kicked from a level after finding a Moon.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
But it’s still not a true successor to Mario 64 and Sunshine, those games had a great core design from the start.
Sunshine's terrible structure ruins any claim to it having a great "core design." Great core play mechanics? Sure. But Sunshine's structure lets it down hard. An exploration based 3D game that forces a specific mission order and requires specific missions to be completed...there's very, very little reason to do anything but the core path unless you're going for 100%. Every bonus Delfino Plaza Shine. Every extra red coin mission. Every single blue coin. They only provide value for 100%. Not for Any%. Even unlocking certain areas earlier...you can just play the regular missions and get more than enough Shines to cover them. I really dislike that structure.

Look, I like Sunshine. I have my fun with it. I've 100% completed the game twice. But it's got problems, and Odyssey is plenty of a successor. Highly disagree with your post.
The minor moons in Odyssey are absolutely no different from the Blue Coins in Sunshine
They do have one difference - any minor moon still can aid towards progression like any other moon. Blue Coins, as I stated above, do not.

and now the mario odyssey thread is another sunshine debate, oops.
 

Yoshifan31

Moblin
I honestly did not find that the "art style" was ever misfitting the game in Odyssey. The art director was savvy enough to make sure that the Mario characters had more detailed textures and hairs and more in their designs, which helped close the gap between the traditional cartoony elements and the grittier ones, and also all of the realism in the game is blatantly done with an eye for absurdism and comedical contrast. It's not just 'normal humans talking to Mario', it is cartoonishly stiff and realistic humans talking to him, it is not just a detailed realistic dragon, it is an absurdly gritty and exaggerated caricature that becomes amusing thanks to the way it contrasts with Mario himself (along with his facial features being rather cartoony the more you stare at him). It is different from something like the upcoming Sonic game throwing those bright cartoons into detailed gritty landscapes with no rhyme or reason, there is an absurd tongue-in-cheek tone behind the way Odyssey did it that makes it fit into the world of Mario in it's own way.




Heavy disagree, first because "valid game design issue" implies it is objectively an issue, which I don't think it is, and second on the claim that this game is not a true sucessor to the original games because of frankly abstract decisions of what counts and what does not count as a worthy collectible. The minor moons in Odyssey are absolutely no different from the Blue Coins in Sunshine or the hidden green stars in 3D World/Galaxy, yet you are talking like they do not serve a purpose while at the same time praising the Blue Coins? Why? Does the fact that they are moons instead of a different yet identical-in-function collectible change the game that much? All of them are "reward for spending time poking around", and the game even goes out of its way to visually depict them differently since the 'important' ones have cutscenes and scenario changes triggered by collecting them.

It's a sandbox type Mario where you play and explore around the maps, if you're exploring and finding moons or exploring and finding blue coins that eventually are exchanged for Shines/Stars it makes absolutely no difference. In fact, the moons are superior in their implementation since there is atleast a manner of keeping track of the ones you found, unlike the Sunshine Blue Coins which were an exercise in frustration if you were not aware of which ones you had gotten and which ones you had not yet. It makes no sense to claim Odyssey's structure is untrue to the series when it is identical to those games, the only true major difference being that you are not kicked from a level after finding a Moon.
First off I don’t think you should use the word “objectively” when discussing design, especially considering that I’m not the only one who thinks this. Not everyone who doesn’t like Odyssey as much as other Marios simply prefers the more linear ones. It having too many Moons is a common complaint, just like people don’t like BOTW’s structure with the Shrines.

A general principle of game design is to have a good balance between harmonies and dissonances. Building up and releasing tension. In Odyssey, pretty much every highlight of the game for me was in the critical path. Exploring outside of it wasn’t as engaging because you already knew what to expect, you were either getting Moons from doing very simple actions or doing to the foggy mini levels. By the end of the game you get the remaining Moons from total busywork like the Toadette stuff, this approach just dilutes the whole experience.

Here’s a more concrete example by comparing it to Sunshine, the game everyone likes to roast. Both it and 64 are platformers that sometimes have adventure game elements. Notably, it having a hub world (very major difference compared to Odyssey here) and unlockable abilities, but also the fact that some Shines have more puzzly aspects. My favorite Shine in the game was definitely the second one in Sirena Beach, a level with a very different setting and structure compared to the other levels. That’s what I mean by harmonies and dissonances, some Shines were roads leading you to a boss, others were Fluddless levels, and then others like that one had more unique ways to get to the objective. When you go off the beaten path you never know what to expect as well. Even Blue Coins are lightyears beyond getting a Moon after talking to Toadette because you collected 10000 coins. They are basically parkour levels, you do them when you know the level well so you know the optimal route to get to the coin. That’s why I don’t care about comparing both games and putting Sunshine below it because some parts are lacklauster or missing QOL features. The point here is that Odyssey diverges from 64/Sunshine rather than building upon them, and that I think the latter’s structure is inherently more compelling.

I disagree with almost every word.

Looking at the average review scores for the media and user it also sounds like you’re in an extreme minority who think this.

Odyssey is also so much better than Sunshine, so much better designed from top to bottom, that there’s a huge gulf in quality between them.

Obviously everyone’s entitled to their own opinion but you should probably realise that in this instance yours is incredibly abstract.
Of course it got 97 MC, it’s a great game. It was exactly what Mario needed after NSMB and 3D World in terms of aesthetics and themes. Yet, the discussion around the game is kind of one and done. If it had the kind of acclaim that 64 and Galaxy had, it would have won way more GOTY awards over BOTW for instance. I’m far from the first person to have a somewhat lukewarm opinion about the game, it’s just that I’ve put my finger on why exactly I think it’s not as good as other 3D Marios and how having a structure closer to 64 and Sunshine would have made the game more impactful.

I’m just tired of games, now 3D platformers, leaning towards to this Ubisoft-like game design where progression is quantified by all of these little bite-sized challenges. It’s not because it doesn’t have icons on a map that it doesn’t feel like a checklist, and yes 100%ing Odyssey very much feels like that. Meanwhile N64 had it right from the start with a structure that not only gave the player agency to do things out of order but also by having a strong sense of purpose in its levels and objectives. 64 era platformers from Nintendo/Rare are lightyears beyond today’s games that include collectibles, because back then they knew how to give purpose to the collecting. I thought that Odyssey would scratch that itch but it doesn’t, great game and it’s arguably a Galaxy 3 but it just doesn’t have enough in common with 64 or Sunshine for me
 

YolkFolk

Bob-omb
First off I don’t think you should use the word “objectively” when discussing design, especially considering that I’m not the only one who thinks this. Not everyone who doesn’t like Odyssey as much as other Marios simply prefers the more linear ones. It having too many Moons is a common complaint, just like people don’t like BOTW’s structure with the Shrines.

A general principle of game design is to have a good balance between harmonies and dissonances. Building up and releasing tension. In Odyssey, pretty much every highlight of the game for me was in the critical path. Exploring outside of it wasn’t as engaging because you already knew what to expect, you were either getting Moons from doing very simple actions or doing to the foggy mini levels. By the end of the game you get the remaining Moons from total busywork like the Toadette stuff, this approach just dilutes the whole experience.

Here’s a more concrete example by comparing it to Sunshine, the game everyone likes to roast. Both it and 64 are platformers that sometimes have adventure game elements. Notably, it having a hub world (very major difference compared to Odyssey here) and unlockable abilities, but also the fact that some Shines have more puzzly aspects. My favorite Shine in the game was definitely the second one in Sirena Beach, a level with a very different setting and structure compared to the other levels. That’s what I mean by harmonies and dissonances, some Shines were roads leading you to a boss, others were Fluddless levels, and then others like that one had more unique ways to get to the objective. When you go off the beaten path you never know what to expect as well. Even Blue Coins are lightyears beyond getting a Moon after talking to Toadette because you collected 10000 coins. They are basically parkour levels, you do them when you know the level well so you know the optimal route to get to the coin. That’s why I don’t care about comparing both games and putting Sunshine below it because some parts are lacklauster or missing QOL features. The point here is that Odyssey diverges from 64/Sunshine rather than building upon them, and that I think the latter’s structure is inherently more compelling.


Of course it got 97 MC, it’s a great game. It was exactly what Mario needed after NSMB and 3D World in terms of aesthetics and themes. Yet, the discussion around the game is kind of one and done. If it had the kind of acclaim that 64 and Galaxy had, it would have won way more GOTY awards over BOTW for instance. I’m far from the first person to have a somewhat lukewarm opinion about the game, it’s just that I’ve put my finger on why exactly I think it’s not as good as other 3D Marios and how having a structure closer to 64 and Sunshine would have made the game more impactful.

I’m just tired of games, now 3D platformers, leaning towards to this Ubisoft-like game design where progression is quantified by all of these little bite-sized challenges. It’s not because it doesn’t have icons on a map that it doesn’t feel like a checklist, and yes 100%ing Odyssey very much feels like that. Meanwhile N64 had it right from the start with a structure that not only gave the player agency to do things out of order but also by having a strong sense of purpose in its levels and objectives. 64 era platformers from Nintendo/Rare are lightyears beyond today’s games that include collectibles, because back then they knew how to give purpose to the collecting. I thought that Odyssey would scratch that itch but it doesn’t, great game and it’s arguably a Galaxy 3 but it just doesn’t have enough in common with 64 or Sunshine for me

See my last response :)
 

Raccoon

North American vermin
Pronouns
He/Him
replaying Mario 64 gives you 120 missions, while replaying Odyssey in my experience is just going through the parts of the game you have to play

of course, you could instead try to do everything but that isn't something I'm personally interested in

I don't find Odyssey's structure to be outright flawed but I do think it's not conducive to replay value and broadly inferior to 64
 

Mekanos

Kuwabara The Man
Pronouns
he/they
replaying Mario 64 gives you 120 missions, while replaying Odyssey in my experience is just going through the parts of the game you have to play

of course, you could instead try to do everything but that isn't something I'm personally interested in

I don't find Odyssey's structure to be outright flawed but I do think it's not conducive to replay value and broadly inferior to 64
Yeah, Mario 64 has its fair share of stinker Stars, but I'd say the balance on average is better than Odyssey. Odyssey is not a game I'll ever go for 100% on again, whereas I've gone for 100% on Mario 64 multiple times. I prefer smaller and more focused games like Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie than an Odyssey that has a lot of volume but requires the player to go through a lot of repetitive and less interesting missions as well.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
Following along these lines, Bowser's Fury is probably the most distilled form of 3D sandbox Mario, the opposite extreme of Odyssey. A 100% play in less than 5 hours the first time through, closer to the length of a Mario 3 or Mario World. Super small, super focused, incredibly tight. A great game that's also quite short, especially for any% and even when you don't speed run the game. Such a fascinating little title.

I really gotta make that Super Mario general discussion thread after I play Odyssey, huh.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
It's time to start the replay. Gosh, I reay appreciate how fast this opening is while still setting a strong tone. Seeing Mario's broken cap is a great image to show how dominant Bowser is in the first fight.
 

Wockio

Cappy
I think we have a good shot at holiday 2023, since we're having open world Pokémon new gen this year and since 2020 had no mainline pokémon after Sw/Sh, I don't expect 2023 to have either. Unless they shockingly pull a Legends 2 but I don't think it's in any way likely we'll get anything before a remake in 2024.
Tears of the Kingdom is coming in May, and I really don't see ANY other big profile game outside of 3D Mario that can carry a holiday season. Well, 2D Mario maybe but those feel like H1 titles on Switch era...
Pokemon doesn't really have much to do with other Nintendo franchises when it comes to scheduling. We got ORAS the same day as Smash Wii U, and LGPE a few weeks before Smash Ultimate.
 
0

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
Cleared out the initial visits of the Cap Kingdom and the Cascade Kingdom - all purple coins, all the Power Moons I can get before the Sand Kingdom. That's 31 Power Moons down!

A couple of observations:
  • While Odyssey's closing act is definitely worth praise, it also has a really great beginning, too. The opening cutscene to set the stakes, the mysterious and monochrome Bonneton setting a gloomy mood before the bombastic Fossil Falls, and building up to restoring the Odyssey and going to the more open Tostarena to really start the adventure. A great start to a world traveling adventure.
  • I like how you can speed up the Broodal fights by being offensive during the "defensive" phase. The fights are a lot more active, a great change of pace from the NSMB Koopaling fights.
  • Fossil Falls is a great take on the traditional "grasslands" starting area, a very Mario 64-esque structure of getting to the top of a mountain mixed with a more realistic look and a freaking T-REX! It's a wonderful starting point.
  • My favorite aspect of Odyssey's movement is how the speed from Mario's faster movement options is preserved when you jump. Long jump or roll or rush down a mountain to pick up that speed, then use a triple jump to retain that speed while still moving upward. It feels so good to do. I also enjoy the feel of Mario's jump. Other 3D Mario games have more floaty jumps, and they work for what they are trying to accomplish - I feel like 3D World in particular finds a good balance between speed and weight - but the heavier weight of Mario's jump in Odyssey gives Mario a quick and snappy feel that I enjoy.
So far, so good - Super Mario Odyssey gives me a lot of joy going back to it, and I definitely feel better and faster at this, which is always a delight for a replay.
 
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Yavga

Bing Bing Wahoo
Pronouns
He
First of all wow! It's been a while 😮 time sure flies by!

Mario Odyssey has been my weirdest game experience ever though, I was hyped beyond belief and usually that's leads to me playing a game 100+ hours (that's a lot for me) but when the game was there I played it for like... 10 hours, I really enjoyed the time I spent on it in 4 or 5 sittings but after I beat the boss I never bothered to come back to the game ever again.

As if I fell into a pit, the game never managed to captivate me again like 64 or Sunshine did even though Odyssey was clearly an impressively engineered game.

Still, I am already excited for the next installment though so I hope it will manage to make it in 2 years time or so and that it manages to captivate me again and that I can share a lot of good memories.
 

MusicProposition

Fury Bowser
Pronouns
he/him
I disagree with almost every word.

Looking at the average review scores for the media and user it also sounds like you’re in an extreme minority who think this.

Odyssey is also so much better than Sunshine, so much better designed from top to bottom, that there’s a huge gulf in quality between them.

Obviously everyone’s entitled to their own opinion but you should probably realise that in this instance yours is incredibly abstract.
the fact that the Joseph Anderson review exists proves to me that it’s not a minority or some extremely far off opinion this poster has.

I kinda have to agree. The vibe Odyssey gives as a very big game with a lot of content collapses as soon as you realize that the moons (or most of them) are in fact not a replacement for stars/sprites, but for Korok Seeds. There’s a lot of stuff Odyssey does very well though, like camera movement and controls.
 

YolkFolk

Bob-omb
the fact that the Joseph Anderson review exists proves to me that it’s not a minority or some extremely far off opinion this poster has.

I kinda have to agree. The vibe Odyssey gives as a very big game with a lot of content collapses as soon as you realize that the moons (or most of them) are in fact not a replacement for stars/sprites, but for Korok Seeds. There’s a lot of stuff Odyssey does very well though, like camera movement and controls.

Who?

Of course it’s a minority. Odyssey is an extremely successful and incredibly well received game. It’s considered to be one of the greatest games of this generation quite comfortably. I personally consider it to be the best sandbox platform ever made which I’d say lines up with its general reception.

They’ll always be people with differing opinions though. There are people who think Lionel Messi isn’t good at football or Michael Jordan was overrated at basketball.
 

Mekanos

Kuwabara The Man
Pronouns
he/they
the fact that the Joseph Anderson review exists proves to me that it’s not a minority or some extremely far off opinion this poster has.
7SZq6gk.png
 

Jencks

Piranha Plant
the fact that the Joseph Anderson review exists proves to me that it’s not a minority or some extremely far off opinion this poster has.

I kinda have to agree. The vibe Odyssey gives as a very big game with a lot of content collapses as soon as you realize that the moons (or most of them) are in fact not a replacement for stars/sprites, but for Korok Seeds. There’s a lot of stuff Odyssey does very well though, like camera movement and controls.
Anderson's video released shortly after the game released and his thesis dominated subsequent discussion around the game as terminally online fans parroted his opinion. His video is the definition of missing the forest for the trees.
 

MusicProposition

Fury Bowser
Pronouns
he/him
I don’t really think this works: First, I didn’t say you need to watch the video or that I even think it’s good, second, he’s not really about why the game sucks, just why it could not the masterpiece that some people think it is and I think it’s important to differentiate here. I only brought it up as a counterpoint to the argument that „critics are in a minority“ anyway.
I‘d welcome it if you could just answer and discuss, because it is kind of an interesting topic!
 
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MusicProposition

Fury Bowser
Pronouns
he/him
Anderson's video released shortly after the game released and his thesis dominated subsequent discussion around the game as terminally online fans parroted his opinion. His video is the definition of missing the forest for the trees.
Does that contradict my point though? I’m just saying that critics of the game exist and I personally think it’s even quite an interesting take on the game. What fans made of it is 1) nothing I really saw online, there wasnt some kind of “SMO hate” after the video afaik but maybe I missed something and 2) it doesn’t really matter I think because online communities will always follow some opinions, right now I’m just comparing what major YouTubers or writers are saying about the game, and I think it’s not all praise and love.
 
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MusicProposition

Fury Bowser
Pronouns
he/him
a video essayist, mainly talking about Dark Souls and Witcher, but also some Nintendo games.
Of course it’s a minority. Odyssey is an extremely successful and incredibly well received game. It’s considered to be one of the greatest games of this generation quite comfortably. I personally consider it to be the best sandbox platform ever made which I’d say lines up with its general reception.

They’ll always be people with differing opinions though. There are people who think Lionel Messi isn’t good at football or Michael Jordan was overrated at basketball.
Kinda hard to disagree with what you’re saying, you’re right that this is the reception the game got and sales numbers are affirming that. I think differing opinions can be substantial and sometimes don’t exist just because they’re different, but because there is some stuff to criticize.
 
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VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
I'll keep my opinions on the Joseph Anderson video succinct - I disagree with his opinions because they did not reflect my experiences playing the game. I get the "It's No Masterpiece" title for the purpose of quickly expressing his opinions and getting clicks (especially off his Breath of the Wild video pulling a similar stunt), but I still think it's an annoying clickbait title. And that's where I'll leave it - he can have his opinions and I can have mine.

You know, for all the comparisons to the Korok Seeds, I found my all Power Moons playthrough way easier than attempting to find all 900 Korok Seeds. Odyssey does a decent job of letting you track missions - the checklist, Talkatoo giving mission names and letting you know if there are no missions left, and Hint Toad letting you find mission locations for a price. It's a simple system that works decently well.
 

Branduil

Octorok
It's a great game, although I do have some mixed feelings, in that I really enjoyed the journey of the first playthrough, but completely fell off the post-game and never felt compelled to go back.

I don't necessarily have a problem with minor task moons, but they really should have made more use of multi-moons. It just feels off that I can do an elaborate platforming sequence to get a single moon and then also get one for watering a seed.
 
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I disagree with almost every word.

Looking at the average review scores for the media and user it also sounds like you’re in an extreme minority who think this.

Odyssey is also so much better than Sunshine, so much better designed from top to bottom, that there’s a huge gulf in quality between them.

Obviously everyone’s entitled to their own opinion but you should probably realise that in this instance yours is incredibly abstract.
If Odyssey is "so much better designed from top to bottom" than Sunshine, then go ahead and make an argument for why it is so. If your only argument is to dismiss those who disagree with an appeal to majority fallacy pointing to review scores, then I could point out that Odyssey on Metacritic has a 97 from critics and an 8.9 from users, while Sunshine has a 92 from critics and an 8.4 from users, so I would hardly call a 5-point difference a "huge gulf in quality".
 

Christo750

Koopa
Pronouns
He/Him/His
The only thing bad about Mario Odyssey is that eventually it ends. Sucks we never got DLC or a sequel but I am beyond stoked to see what happens next.
 

MusicProposition

Fury Bowser
Pronouns
he/him
I'll keep my opinions on the Joseph Anderson video succinct - I disagree with his opinions because they did not reflect my experiences playing the game. I get the "It's No Masterpiece" title for the purpose of quickly expressing his opinions and getting clicks (especially off his Breath of the Wild video pulling a similar stunt), but I still think it's an annoying clickbait title. And that's where I'll leave it - he can have his opinions and I can have mine.

You know, for all the comparisons to the Korok Seeds, I found my all Power Moons playthrough way easier than attempting to find all 900 Korok Seeds. Odyssey does a decent job of letting you track missions - the checklist, Talkatoo giving mission names and letting you know if there are no missions left, and Hint Toad letting you find mission locations for a price. It's a simple system that works decently well.
You know, I only brought it up because it exists and if anything, it proves that critical views about this game exist too. Even mentioning this video lets people go on like „I‘m not letting a 2hr video dictate my opinion“ (I’m not saying that you did this, but others here do and it makes me wonder why people are so upset at a video). I don’t think it’s clickbait, because the title is the essence of the video. His style (not using music, not using thumbnails, very long videos) is definitely not something for the algorithm. If you think it’s clickbait, then Nates or Spawns videos are too. I don’t think they really are.

Regarding the missions, you’re right that that SMOs moons are handled better than the Korok seeds. However, my point is that the missions themselves are very similar: it could either be a great, custom designed parkour, or it’s a stone you have to kick 30 times. Yes, they’re easier to find than the seeds but:
  • quality greatly varies between moons
  • in Botw, korok seeds are a side activity that I personally never did tbh. There was other stuff to collect and to experience that was more meaningful, and I miss that in Odyssey.

I really think they should’ve just made 500 moons or so, that would still have been a lot. Plus I think the world sizes also vary too much, just make every world as meaningful as the last, this is how it’s always been.
 

PokéNeutral

Koopa
Administrator
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He/Him
Fantastic game. Can't believe it's been five years, goodness. Was always hoping for a DLC but then I just assumed a sequel with cut content was in the making. Still holding out hope, but at this point waiting for new hardware for it.

Only complaint is the last post-game level. I love a challenge but I get bored of them if I think they're unfair in their difficulty. That level rises to that description for me. Otherwise a 10/10 experience.
 

Yavga

Bing Bing Wahoo
Pronouns
He
You know, I only brought it up because it exists and if anything, it proves that critical views about this game exist too. Even mentioning this video lets people go on like „I‘m not letting a 2hr video dictate my opinion“ (I’m not saying that you did this, but others here do and it makes me wonder why people are so upset at a video). I don’t think it’s clickbait, because the title is the essence of the video. His style (not using music, not using thumbnails, very long videos) is definitely not something for the algorithm. If you think it’s clickbait, then Nates or Spawns videos are too. I don’t think they really are.

Regarding the missions, you’re right that that SMOs moons are handled better than the Korok seeds. However, my point is that the missions themselves are very similar: it could either be a great, custom designed parkour, or it’s a stone you have to kick 30 times. Yes, they’re easier to find than the seeds but:
  • quality greatly varies between moons
  • in Botw, korok seeds are a side activity that I personally never did tbh. There was other stuff to collect and to experience that was more meaningful, and I miss that in Odyssey.

I really think they should’ve just made 500 moons or so, that would still have been a lot. Plus I think the world sizes also vary too much, just make every world as meaningful as the last, this is how it’s always been.

Just a thought that occured to me while reading this but I think what would have helped me enjoy the game better would be a sense of fulfillment for certain moons. Maybe they should have had different colours like they had in Mario Galaxy, The green stars felt 'more special'

The problem with the collectables for me is that the weight of an easy obtainable moon is the same as the weight of a very hard obtainable moon, so why would I take the hard route?

Of course Mario is all about broad appeal and this time the theme was sandbox, initially the sandbox idea spoke to me but when the game released maybe I discovered that I like my path to be more clear and straightforward in a Mario game.
 

Dardan Sandiego

Dill Spowser‘s nephew
Founder
Pronouns
he/him
It's difficult to dismiss the psychological effect that power moons as the game's "universal" collectible have, even though it personally didn't bother me. The devs did try to mitigate the issue with the multi moons but I'd argue that they didn't feel sufficiently more special than regular power moons. I guess one nice side effect was that it made me pay less attention to the reward but I see no harm in rethinking the economy for the next mainline entry.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
It's difficult to dismiss the psychological effect that power moons as the game's "universal" collectible have, even though it personally didn't bother me. The devs did try to mitigate the issue with the multi moons but I'd argue that they didn't feel sufficiently more special than regular power moons. I guess one nice side effect was that it made me pay less attention to the reward but I see no harm in rethinking the economy for the next mainline entry.
On one hand, I get it. It can feel weird to do a more involved task and get the same "reward" as a simple task. It can make some end game clean up annoying, and for some it can be a deterrent all together.

...but on the other hand, on my commute today, I got 21 Power Moons in about half an hour, and that managed to feel like a lot of progress. This fits the handheld/hybrid nature of the Switch perfectly. Even if I don't have much time, I can always jump in, get a few Moons, and make some progress towards that 100%. And that's a feeling I  do get enjoyment out of.
 

meatbag

Tingle
so why would I take the hard route?
Coz the hard route is fun

That’s where I’m at, I don’t really care if I get a Moon or a Multi-Moon or a congratulatory pat on the back, I’ll just do it if it’s fun. I’m also not a 100% completionist, so I didn’t bother hunting down the menial Moons.

Even if I don't have much time, I can always jump in, get a few Moons
That’s definitely part of the intent in designing Odyssey the way it is, and partly telling the player to decide their own difficulty.
 

ermitron2

Koopa
Pronouns
He/Him
I do have to say there is one thing I didn't like is the lack of options to adapt some of the motions to buttons. I understand they wanted to show the functionality of the joycons, but they could easily adapt some of them like throwing cappy up/down to buttons
 

Mekanos

Kuwabara The Man
Pronouns
he/they
It's difficult to dismiss the psychological effect that power moons as the game's "universal" collectible have, even though it personally didn't bother me. The devs did try to mitigate the issue with the multi moons but I'd argue that they didn't feel sufficiently more special than regular power moons. I guess one nice side effect was that it made me pay less attention to the reward but I see no harm in rethinking the economy for the next mainline entry.
I still think there could be a middle ground where somewhat significant tasks gets the player two moons. It might be difficult to balance though.
 

Dardan Sandiego

Dill Spowser‘s nephew
Founder
Pronouns
he/him
On one hand, I get it. It can feel weird to do a more involved task and get the same "reward" as a simple task. It can make some end game clean up annoying, and for some it can be a deterrent all together.

...but on the other hand, on my commute today, I got 21 Power Moons in about half an hour, and that managed to feel like a lot of progress. This fits the handheld/hybrid nature of the Switch perfectly. Even if I don't have much time, I can always jump in, get a few Moons, and make some progress towards that 100%. And that's a feeling I  do get enjoyment out of.
Oh yeah, I definitely think that the hardware has (at least partially) informed some design decisions. But that's really no different from other entries so I can also not fault Odyssey for it.
 
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On one hand, I get it. It can feel weird to do a more involved task and get the same "reward" as a simple task. It can make some end game clean up annoying, and for some it can be a deterrent all together.

...but on the other hand, on my commute today, I got 21 Power Moons in about half an hour, and that managed to feel like a lot of progress. This fits the handheld/hybrid nature of the Switch perfectly. Even if I don't have much time, I can always jump in, get a few Moons, and make some progress towards that 100%. And that's a feeling I  do get enjoyment out of.
Yeah, I feel like this is where the biggest schism is going to come into play with how much one enjoys Odyssey. I understand where you’re coming from with the constant sense of progress that comes from the high amount of moons in the game, but for me I come away from a play session with a very different feeling.

If I sit down and play Mario Odyssey for half an hour and get 21 moons, to me that just means by tomorrow I’ll hardly remember anything about those moons or what I did to get them. I personally feel a much greater sense of progression from playing through 2 or 3 more substantial levels or working through a single particularly challenging task in that same period of time, than I do from getting constant rewards for completing small tasks.

It’s just a matter of taste as to what one prefers, but this aspect is what really sticks out to me as making Odyssey feel different from other Mario platformers.
 
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Dardan Sandiego

Dill Spowser‘s nephew
Founder
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he/him
I still think there could be a middle ground where somewhat significant tasks gets the player two moons. It might be difficult to balance though.
Maybe this is just me but I don't think I'd have minded two sets of collectibles (perhaps Moons and Stars? or Moons and Super Moons??) with different uses. One can definitely overdo it (see DK64) but two seems like a good middle ground.
 

Bowser Sr.

Octorok
Pronouns
He Him
the fact that the Joseph Anderson review exists proves to me that it’s not a minority or some extremely far off opinion this poster has.

I kinda have to agree. The vibe Odyssey gives as a very big game with a lot of content collapses as soon as you realize that the moons (or most of them) are in fact not a replacement for stars/sprites, but for Korok Seeds. There’s a lot of stuff Odyssey does very well though, like camera movement and controls.
"Multiple people on the internet agree with me" doesn't magically mean the game has a widespread issue. Those are personal opinions, and can be easily disagreed with. If 100 guys said that The Beatles "Hey Jude" should've been "Hey Dude" that doesn't mean the lyrics have flaws, it just means 100 guys thought a thing, which is good, this is a discussion board after all.
We are nobodies, Joseph Anderson is also a nobody, it is weird to act like SMO was not overwhelmingly beloved because of absurd "metrics that prove im right" like a Youtube existing or the fact that it got less GOTYs than BOTW, and someone that thinks Odyssey is a Masterpiece is not going to magically think it was not because someone on the Internet stated otherwise.

On another note, I find it genuinely odd to talk like the Moons do not work as stars, considering Mario 64 features Stars that are awarded to you for:
1- Groundpounding the same place multiple times
2- Defeating a completely normal enemy
3- Jumping over a ledge and breaking a box
4- Defeating a completely normal enemy but he's in an ice level
And other tasks that are similarly simple. Just like Odyssey, there is a wide variety of how complex a task needs to be to result in a star/moon, with the only major difference being that the moons also work as exploration collectibles akin to Blue Coins, except that when you find 10 moons you have 10 moons instead of finding 10 coins to get 1 Shine.
 
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Jahranimo

Like Like
Pronouns
He/Him
This game was phenomenal, almost like a dream 3D Mario game (More like Mario 64 + Banjo-Kazooie collectathon liberties)

Such a blast to 100%

 

NabiscoFelt

CrossCode superfan
Pronouns
he/him
"Multiple people on the internet agree with me" doesn't magically mean the game has a widespread issue. Those are personal opinions, and can be easily disagreed with. If 100 guys said that The Beatles "Hey Jude" should've been "Hey Dude" that doesn't mean the lyrics have flaws, it just means 100 guys thought a thing, which is good, this is a discussion board after all.
We are nobodies, Joseph Anderson is also a nobody, it is weird to act like SMO was not overwhelmingly beloved because of absurd "metrics that prove im right" like a Youtube existing or the fact that it got less GOTYs than BOTW, and someone that thinks Odyssey is a Masterpiece is not going to magically think it was not because someone on the Internet stated otherwise.

On another note, I find it genuinely odd to talk like the Moons do not work as stars, considering Mario 64 features Stars that are awarded to you for:
1- Groundpounding the same place multiple times
2- Defeating a completely normal enemy
3- Jumping over a ledge and breaking a box
4- Defeating a completely normal enemy but he's in an ice level
And other tasks that are similarly simple. Just like Odyssey, there is a wide variety of how complex a task needs to be to result in a star/moon, with the only major difference being that the moons also work as exploration collectibles akin to Blue Coins, except that when you find 10 moons you have 10 moons instead of finding 10 coins to get 1 Shine.
I understood (but still didn't agree with) the "the abundance of moons devalue the collectible, unlike the distinct and unique objectives to get stars/shines of the previous games" argument until I actually played the previous games, at which point I realized that people were vastly overstating those objectives.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
Maybe this is just me but I don't think I'd have minded two sets of collectibles (perhaps Moons and Stars? or Moons and Super Moons??) with different uses. One can definitely overdo it (see DK64) but two seems like a good middle ground.
Blue Coins. You're asking for Blue Coins.

...granted, the Blue Coin system could easily be fixed with (A) a map or tracker to let you know what you've gotten already and (B) letting the larger collectible you get with then actually mean something to progression. The Moons in Odyssey already do this, but the Blue Coin style of system would kinda run contrary to the game's flexibility of any moon mattering. And while I'm sympathetic to hardcore "challenge" players, (A) I'm gonna give the point to making the game easier for a wider audience (Odyssey's true black mark is the motion controls not being accessible for people with disabilities), (B) Any% is allowed to be more flexible and I think there's value to that, and (C) I play these Mario games to 100%, so it doesn't matter if it's a Moon or a Moon Shard or some variant on that, I'm gonna get it, so might as well streamline the process. A moon is a moon.
 

Catalyst

Like Like
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He/Him
Blue Coins. You're asking for Blue Coins.

...granted, the Blue Coin system could easily be fixed with (A) a map or tracker to let you know what you've gotten already and (B) letting the larger collectible you get with then actually mean something to progression. The Moons in Odyssey already do this, but the Blue Coin style of system would kinda run contrary to the game's flexibility of any moon mattering. And while I'm sympathetic to hardcore "challenge" players, (A) I'm gonna give the point to making the game easier for a wider audience (Odyssey's true black mark is the motion controls not being accessible for people with disabilities), (B) Any% is allowed to be more flexible and I think there's value to that, and (C) I play these Mario games to 100%, so it doesn't matter if it's a Moon or a Moon Shard or some variant on that, I'm gonna get it, so might as well streamline the process. A moon is a moon.
Agreed with the motion control thing. Some of the hat moves require the use of motion controls, even in handheld mode for some reason. This is a common Wii-era problem that Nintendo has mostly gotten away from, but it reared it’s ugly head in Odyssey.

I know you pointed it out because of accessibility, but even as someone without disabilities I found it annoying.
 
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Polygon

Moblin
Pronouns
Him
Relevant


I legit did not know you could water the seeds to make them grow faster
I was in disbeleif at some of these. Crazy attention to detail. Wasn't the game ready for the Switch launch as back up incase Zelda didn't make it? If so I imagine it was constantly polished and a lot of the above was added in the six months of additional polish for it's October release.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
Pronouns
He/Him
So remember when I said I would just go for the Power Moons that interested me without aiming to 100% each kingdom before post game?

...well, uh, that didn't last. In the Cap, Cascade, and Sand Kingdoms, I just...kept doing missions until I didn't have any left. I got all of the Purple Coins, too. And I'm still having a ball. The closest it came to feeling like too much were getting the last couple of Purple Coins in Toastarena....until I realized that they were just in the town. Oops. At least my last moon was there too!

I'm really glad Odyssey focused on creating new friendly species to interact with. There's a lot of small joys here - interacting with new people and seeing their cultures, helping and coexisting with them. Really makes the game feel like a real global journey, and it makes Mario's world truly feel larger than what we see in other titles.

Three days in and we got 96 Power Moons! That's over 10% already! Next up is Lake Kingdom - even though you get the choice, I go for the smaller kingdom first each time the game prompts it. It keeps the rhythm of big kingdom to small kingdom going better.
 


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