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Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom - Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread (Tag Story Spoilers)

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I found a bunch more references to the symbols on Basket Lady's dress in the Art Book in some really interesting places that I am surprised haven't been discussed yet. I went through our thread and only found one reference we had talked about with the white pots @Serif and @Skittzo referencing one of her symbols. Just going back through our posts in this thread, there is so much great information and ideas that have gone mostly unexplored simply because of the sheer volume and how quickly we were posting especially in the beginning. I will try and @ the correct person when referencing or expanding on ideas based on what I have found, but definitely chime in if you had already posted something similar, For me it's just about trying to find some assimilation of fitting pieces together so it makes sense in a coherent way instead of this vague, convoluted abstract mess that has been presented to us.

I started just specifically looking for this symbol on Basket Lady's dress, and I started noticing it in places I didn't expect.
BL-dress-symbols.jpg


The first place I found these symbols was on what presumably is a revamped glimpse at the Great Plateau. I rotated the image because it's a little easier to see but the pattern is the same in all four directions.

GP-FULL-Complete.jpg

A lot of times I had to flip the image 180 degrees because it is presented upside down sometimes in certain depictions and right side up in others, which makes it look like a completely different image. I will refrain on speculating on why this would be located here on the Great Plateau and leave that up to you to decide.

The next spot this image showed up was on the back of the stone Bird, as well as in the additional image at the top which is harder to make out because it is flipped 180 degrees. I was never sold on the idea that the stone bird would be used as a fast travel method but I am slowly coming around to the idea based on who I think the Stone Bird belonged to now. I just assumed it belonged to Rauru but it might belong to Basket Lady, perhaps Rauru could fly naturally and Basket Lady couldn't so it was a way for them to be together in the sky.
Bird-with-symbols-complete.jpg

The lighted stone bird symbol is elongated presumably to fit within the required space but it still matches up one for one, while the other image is harder to make out as it looks more worn and weathered but it still matches one for one to the dress. We also saw just another hint, which again could mean lots of things, from the title reveal trailer with the stone bird just happening to be traveling in the direction of Basket Lady's Geoglyph.
basket-lady-trailer.jpg

I would have to go into too deep of speculation on why the tail is not lit up in this shot, but off the top of my head, I would say it's because Link hasn't visited the Geoglyph yet and once he visits it and perhaps others, the symbol will light up on the back of the tail as the destination point as you fast travel probably by an animation sequence of some sort?

The next image is a split image of presumably the end of a shrine entrance depicted by the top image, under the sea, and what I believe is the warp destination point depicted by the bottom image, inside the sky temple of Basket Lady. Both have the Basket Lady's symbol in the middle above the door or entrance way. So @Skittzo mentioned a few weeks back how all the water imagery are connected and theorized these related to one another as our shrine substitute with the entrance way being through a tori gate in the sky.

water-shrine-symbol-whole-sym-22.jpg


So Link would enter the underwater shrine via tori gate from the sky.
Tori-gate-underwater.jpg

Do the trial, and at the end of the trial exist via the top split image, and arrive in a new warp location via the bottom split image. It could be a way of accessing Basket Lady's temple in the sky. These Temples look like they are broken up into several layers or floors so maybe after completing a new trial you have access to the next floor. Kind of like gaining more Spiritual knowledge on your path to enlightenment, with each successive trial you complete you are one step closer to being worthy or having enough spiritual understanding to meet that particular Deity.
Which actually makes sense to me now via my previous post, as I have always thought being brought up in Western culture, that you would look to a Devine entity in the heavens or upward. But if this was based on Buddhism with my previous Lotus Flower example, perhaps the a Devine trail would start beneath the water as symbolized by the Lotus where it first takes it roots and you would begin your Spiritual journey there.

One last thought I had unrelated to the symbols while I was looking at the underwater pictures, was from this picture in the trailer
reverse-water.jpg

I am thinking as we enter the underwater area, it will be flooded or we could be underwater, but then the water will rise forming a barrier. And the reason why I think this is the swirls on the ceiling which indicate we are underwater. The swirls couldn't be forming from outside, it would have to be remaining water droplets left after the water has rose up and still reversing or rising up that hit the ceiling from the inside and form the water rings. Or it could just be left over pools of water, and we will see them occasionally rise up and hit the ceiling.
 
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It has an activation mechanism of some sort as in the trailer nothing on the bird is flashing green yet.


Withered_Hand_Symbol_-_TOTK.png


I'd wager this would activate the same thing but it would instead be on walls.
We must be on the same wavelength as I was busy posting my own theory on the stone bird and just yours as well :)
 
Dragon + Owl symbols on the jewellery represents the marriage of Basket + Rauru? This theory is strengthened by the image of the royal Zonai throne room with both green and blue flags over two thrones. They represent the union of two tribes in one kingdom. Rauru maybe sacrificed himself to seal Ganondorf and save Basket.
 
I'm pretty convinced what we have seen in the Art book only represents the beginning of the game for the most part as it relates to structures and places, because it seems like they are showing us all the basic things we will need. Some of the Characters might be later on as well as some of the weapons and outfits, but overall most of it will take place within the first 5-10hours of game play.

I also think the structure of the beginning of the game (Or this versions Great Plateau won't just include the Sky Island tutorial but will have us going beneath the water for Basket's shrines, underground through her Geoglyph and completing her Temple in the Sky. then we will meet her Spirit form and she will grant us some ability as seen in the last trailer. Then we will have to wash and repeat for all the other Geoglyph characters whomever they might be.

I just noticed more of her signature on all the Shrine images as well, so even though it seems like we got a lot of different images, they are all most related to each other and depict most of the beginning of the game. I was hoping to be done with Basket Lady, but apparently this is turning into a 3 part post as Basket's dress is the dress that just keeps on giving. :)

doneh-symbos.jpg


Basket Lady's Temple?
Basket-Lady-complete.jpg


Different Sage, Deity or different Character? What's encouraging is that this offers more hints towards different themes or atmospheres of Shrines.
DIFF-DE1-complete.jpg
 
I remain curious why a similar looking structure to this is underground. It is a water themed Zonai structure, so I don't think these are disconnected 'shrine' like areas. Are we pulling areas out from the underground?

zora4.png

water2.png

water3.png
 
By far the most exciting thing about the artbook leak is that it (presumably) only showcases things that Nintendo wants us to see before beginning the game, and it already looks insane! I'm so excited to see what they got in store for us
 
I remain curious why a similar looking structure to this is underground. It is a water themed Zonai structure, so I don't think these are disconnected 'shrine' like areas. Are we pulling areas out from the underground?

zora4.png

water2.png

water3.png
Yanking areas from the underground and sending them up to the sky (and back in time?) has been my theory since shortly after the E3 2021 trailer
 
I remain curious why a similar looking structure to this is underground. It is a water themed Zonai structure, so I don't think these are disconnected 'shrine' like areas. Are we pulling areas out from the underground?

zora4.png

water2.png

water3.png
That would really cool if we were able to move massive structures and the the last image does look like itโ€™s almost floating. This reminds me of how we see some of Zonai labyrinths now floating as well. I have been leaning towards what we do in the sky will some how be connected to whatโ€™s going on in the underground, so maybe we complete the puzzle in the sky and it activates this one underground, then it rises to fit in place in sky.
 
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By far the most exciting thing about the artbook leak is that it (presumably) only showcases things that Nintendo wants us to see before beginning the game, and it already looks insane! I'm so excited to see what they got in store for us

That's an excellent way to look at all of this.
 
Mesoamerican
800px-Codex_Mendoza_folio_67r_bottom.jpg
hero.png
23863-MayanZonai-jpg


Bronze Era China
9nwec0p15zla1.png
hip9ueor3zla1.png



Classical Greco-Roman
zonai1.png
3a27c60878b7cdbbec3a52cf13d8a535.jpg



Japanese Shinto
2ioNbaO.jpg
XYZeXYZe7904_375.jpg
 
A couple of other small details I noticed, this is the first time we see link with only two disc vials. Also a lot of the images of Link's outfits don't depict him wearing the disc vial container at all. This can be attributed to the type of outfit he has on, or maybe just that artists rendition of the outfit, but I find it curious
none the less.

2-vials-com.jpg


Also there looks to what appears to be an amplifier or like a tuning fork behind this giant gong.

tune-fork-com.jpg


I have been reading the sub reddit lately on how our boys are coming along with cracking the Zonai language and it does look like they have made some progress, but still don't have much to go on. I was thinking about how the Sheikah language was cracked before BotW and I am sure Nintendo was not that happy with it. So it seems reasonable to assume that the Devs will make it nearly impossible to crack the Zonai language without some sort of context surrounding the characters in the language.

I have zero, nada expertise in the field of languages and ancient texts, but I have been thinking about sound lately again and the music from the first trailer. This is just a strange idea I have, but given the weird backwards sounding music and combining it with the symbols we see from the green energy, they remind me of an ancient form of music writing. When looking at them side by side they look similar to me.
swirl-1-com.jpg

Ancient music notes:
Ancient-musical-notes.jpg

ancient-musi-1-com.jpg


So since there are 7 main musical notes that correspond to A,B,C,D,E,F and G and then you add in the additional 3 sharp notes and 2 flats you already have 12 potential characters to form your language from. So just like I tend to way over think things, I'm wondering if there just isn't a current solution to cracking the Zonai language. To use music as a form of language to communicate with each other would be a cool concept and one that may have had to be adopted by the Zonai if they moved underwater, kind of like to humpback whales communicating with each other type thing. We see a lot of potential musical instruments in the Art Book as well as several different depictions of these giant gongs.
 
I'm pretty convinced what we have seen in the Art book only represents the beginning of the game for the most part as it relates to structures and places, because it seems like they are showing us all the basic things we will need. Some of the Characters might be later on as well as some of the weapons and outfits, but overall most of it will take place within the first 5-10hours of game play.

I also think the structure of the beginning of the game (Or this versions Great Plateau won't just include the Sky Island tutorial but will have us going beneath the water for Basket's shrines, underground through her Geoglyph and completing her Temple in the Sky. then we will meet her Spirit form and she will grant us some ability as seen in the last trailer. Then we will have to wash and repeat for all the other Geoglyph characters whomever they might be.

I just noticed more of her signature on all the Shrine images as well, so even though it seems like we got a lot of different images, they are all most related to each other and depict most of the beginning of the game. I was hoping to be done with Basket Lady, but apparently this is turning into a 3 part post as Basket's dress is the dress that just keeps on giving. :)

doneh-symbos.jpg


Basket Lady's Temple?
Basket-Lady-complete.jpg


Different Sage, Deity or different Character? What's encouraging is that this offers more hints towards different themes or atmospheres of Shrines.
DIFF-DE1-complete.jpg
I think you are slightly overthinking this. It's just a zonai interpretation of the 3 triforce animals, not specifically related to Basket.
 
I think you are slightly overthinking this. It's just a zonai interpretation of the 3 triforce animals, not specifically related to Basket.
Much appreciated, any feedback is good feedback and "slightly overthinking" this might be an under-exaggeration statement on your part in my case :)
But I try to look at alternative meanings to concepts and some what established ideas have been already with what's being depicted in the Art Book since it's so vague and left up to us to try an interpret.

So when I talk about Basket Lady's dress possibly relating to the concept of Seasons being in the game, it's more of just adding a different perspective to the symbols from hints and clues that have been in trailers and in the Art Book. I am not expecting Seasons to be in the game actually because it seems like a lot to ask for, but I haven't closed the possibility of them still occurring because we simply don't know and have enough information to go on.

When the Devs for this game first sat down to discuss the game, it's pretty much a lock that when they were discussing the idea of "How do we make Hyrule feel and look different for the player that has already put in 100's hours into the map," that the concept of adding Seasons into the game came up. I am guessing one of several things became of it. They added Seasons into the game full on, and went with it. They took some of the ideas they had with Seasons and added some bits and portions into the game and will just leave them unexplained. Or they scrapped the idea completely because it was too much of an ask to implement them in such a large open world, and went in a different direction with Time travel, global warming or light world /dark world type thing.
 
batterie.png

Screenshot-2023-03-06-131859.png
Screenshot-2023-03-06-131814.png


For comparison's sake. Maybe we really do just plug in those batteries onto the gauntlet, haha
 
Seeing Zelda branch out from its medieval German/Celtic roots is both exciting and jarring, honestly.
The Sheikah in BotW were pretty heavily traditional Japanese inspired. The Ancient Sheikah were explicitly inspired by the Jomon period.

fukabachi.jpg


The Zonai being this fusion of multiple ancient civilizations is interesting. It creates this unique look. Ancient giant-eared people wearing Roman togas, Aztec headdresses, in Shinto buildings with Greek columns with Chinese-like inscriptions.
 
batterie.png

Screenshot-2023-03-06-131859.png
Screenshot-2023-03-06-131814.png


For comparison's sake. Maybe we really do just plug in those batteries onto the gauntlet, haha
I'm glad you brought this point up again. I was never "Ok" with or on board with the original concept ideas of injecting Link with weird goopy goo, Hinox snot material into his hand. And actually, if we think about this from the original concept idea back in BotW:
Injection-2.jpg


To what our knowledge of these vials are now, it can kind of confirm your idea that this is what they will be used for. If the vials started out as a liquid to be injected into Links hand, I don't think this would fly in a more family friendly based game like Zelda for the most part tends to be. So the Devs went back to the drawing board and came up with the idea, of inserting disks into the back of Links hand instead. So from my perspective, "Inject link with a needle!" I think not! Put some weird ancient technology disk in the back of his hand, and Oddly "Yah, I'm OK with that."
 
Just looking at the concept art again, and I think the idea of the Dragonfly with what we seen from the new Sheikah slate still has the best chance of making its' appearance in the game.

dragonfly.jpg


But come on Zelda Team! If these islands aren't begging for a round of double claw shots beneath them, then I'm giving up hope!
dble-claw-shot.jpg
 
Perhaps it's just me but I would prefer Link to barely interact with the Sheikah Slate in this game. Undoubtedly Sheikah tech itself will play a role due to the Sheikah main characters like Purah / Robbie / Impa and their presence in the previous game, but I'd prefer this game's identity and core gameplay to center itself on the Zonai and their artifacts, including Link's Gauntlet.

I know it's tricky to have diegetic implementations of camera and map functions and the Sheikah Slate being a literal Wii U / Switch tablet made that super easy, but it seems cleaner and perhaps more appropriate to have all of Link's runes be in the gauntlet and have separate items for the map and camera like a paper map or Pictobox as in the previous games, to indicate some kind of in-world 'regression' from the handy tech of the previous game, that they can't rely on these magic Sheikah devices to save them.

Of course the artwork indicates the Sheikah Slate will be involved. If anyone deserves to have account ownership transferred over to, it'd be Zelda. Let her have the Shiekah Switch. Transfer all its gameplay related functions, like a possible 'drone' feature, to her. Lower Link down into a treacherous area using that long USB-C reel and have Zelda assist in identifying entities and terrain, and incorporate that in gameplay somehow.
 
Someone on Reddit pointed out something...

sfa9zvdl29ma1.jpg


Those black... things that seems to be hidden inside the broken pillar... they look like Demise's scales.
 
The metal plate on Link's forehead is a distinct frog face and the cloth is frog skin. I wonder if this costume is from a new frog race that lives underground as it isn't your usual armour just like the wingsuit. The gloves not only have suction cups like already mentioned but Link straight up has climbing equipment on his hip with ropes and snap hooks. I wonder how that will be implemented with the climbing system already in place.

The flute and the sword have the exact same tribal symbols as the Gerudo that is titled as 'general soldier' in the artbook so these are not from the Gerudo led by Riju. The flute looks notably old and worn and not in top shape like the instruments we see on the page with the hobbit dude. Notable about the flute as well is that it actually is a reed based on the hulusi which is an instrument played in China, Vietnam and Myanmar.

double-Dd.jpg
 
The development name was "Zelda Gaiden". It was definitely a spinoff.
I don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

It means you've found yourself in a hole because you did something daft and instead of doing something reasonable, you kept digging.

It's from the Simpsons.

Majora's mask is not a spin off, and if you think something so nutty because of a very early working title, then I guess you also routinely call Twilight Princess "Wind waker 2", for one example.
 
reverse-water.jpg


I think the this is telling a lot, especially with the title "tears of the kingdom", we now know that we have to collect literal tears (of the kingdom) and the teaser featuring time reversal mechanics with a puddle reversing to a tear shaped water droplet. Together with the artbook we could see the reversal happening, with Link collecting the tears to create a "puddle", but in this case it's more like a higher sea-level already seen in the mysterious room with all glyphs. Now we also know the tears get attached to this lotus flower, which has the famous ability to be ultrahydrophobic, repelling water without absorbing it, could be the same with this flower, hiding it's core without getting affected from time but being a water flower, required to be surrounded by water to bloom and expose the core.

gdq4wwmmq9ja1.jpg


This could explain all the weird changes in the overworld which seem to be only for some parts and to different extension. We will flood current Hyrule with the tears(time) of the kingdom and get "puddles" of the old time appearing, only to get the flower to bloom and reach it's core protected from time, directly from the past. If the end dungeon will be this pyramid like structure with untouched Zonai(old Kingdom) architecture, maybe also the golden ornaments used in the design, my mind would definitely be blown.

2023-03-07-11-05-27-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-13-more-pages-In-Private.png

The "Time Gate" also features a low water-level and I can't unsee it being flooded, especially with Link being conveniently placed for a raise in water-level in this shot.

w1DfzTR.png


I also noticed something worth mentioning in this shot regarding the lost civilization

2023-03-07-11-45-08-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-11-more-pages-In-Private.png



If you look closer at the top left construction, you will see rails and when you zoom in you can clearly see the flying devices, at least the one on the bottom looks very similar to the one Link is using. This seems to be rails made for these devices and indicate that they were probably used a lot. The rails also remind me of aircraft carrier mechanism to help liftoff.

2023-03-07-11-52-17-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-13-more-pages-In-Private.png


I was always thinking about the platform rauru is standing on in the mural and thought of the flying bird Link is using, but it had too many differences in design. With there being different kind of machines and duplicates, it is likely he had his own and this could very well be a flying machine. The best visible connection for me are the tips of both sides going upwards, just like the flying bird Link used.

2023-03-07-12-08-11-Zelda-Tears-of-the-Kingdom-All-Trailers-2019-2023-You-Tube-and-13-more-pag.png

2023-03-07-12-07-44-Zelda-Tears-of-the-Kingdom-All-Trailers-2019-2023-You-Tube-and-13-more-pag.png


All in all, I really don't know how they can pull off this strings of different pieces mechanically but that's also the reason why I'm as excited as I am. This as well includes all the weapon crafting, smithing, slate use, "real-time" overworld changes, vehicles, phials and so much more.

dragonfly.jpg


Seems to be a given with so much similarities in the concept art and new concept, two interesting things about this is the top right depiction of the hook mechanic and the rotating feature might have a role with the new slate too. In the slate picture you can see each arrow is on a different layer, which enables them to rotate independently and they are slightly tilted from artwork to artwork, I don't know about gameplay implications but the back of the slate might be pointing or spinning to fulfill it's purpose.

2023-02-24-10-56-34-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-10-more-pages-In-Private.png
 
I'm glad you brought this point up again. I was never "Ok" with or on board with the original concept ideas of injecting Link with weird goopy goo, Hinox snot material into his hand. And actually, if we think about this from the original concept idea back in BotW:
Injection-2.jpg


To what our knowledge of these vials are now, it can kind of confirm your idea that this is what they will be used for. If the vials started out as a liquid to be injected into Links hand, I don't think this would fly in a more family friendly based game like Zelda for the most part tends to be. So the Devs went back to the drawing board and came up with the idea, of inserting disks into the back of Links hand instead. So from my perspective, "Inject link with a needle!" I think not! Put some weird ancient technology disk in the back of his hand, and Oddly "Yah, I'm OK with that."

I don't think there's any indication that cartridge was for injecting into Link's hand? Or any part of Link. The scale is all wrong for a start, as the top of that bottle is supposed to be about the size of Link's fist, making the needle about the size of a finger and big enough to pop out the other side of his hand!

As it's a vat of liquid ancient energy it was presumably for powering on/up some ancient tech, if not the tablet itself.
j085zcy067o91.jpg




For the new concept, I'm guessing it's some sort of spindle for collecting goo which is then 'weaved' from the hand.

I don't understand why we keep seeing it only 4 out of 8 parts full though, but we'll find out.
 
Some of you are taking my opinions way too personally.
It seems the problem people have with your statement is that it's not actually an opinion. Saying "a square is round" is not an opinion, and people are going to tell you you're wrong.

I agree insults are unnecessary, though. I don't see anyone directly insulting you, just being a bit incredulous at the stubborn nature of your posts.

FYI, I googled "Zelda Gaiden", and it looks like it was the name for a Nintendo 64 DD add-on for Ocarina of Time that was canceled. Pieces of it were used to form what ultimately became Majora's Mask. But Zelda Gaiden wasn't Majora's Mask, it was essentially extra content for OoT.

I think you're equating "sequels" with "spinoffs", and that's what is causing so many people to respond.
 
reverse-water.jpg


I think the this is telling a lot, especially with the title "tears of the kingdom", we now know that we have to collect literal tears (of the kingdom) and the teaser featuring time reversal mechanics with a puddle reversing to a tear shaped water droplet. Together with the artbook we could see the reversal happening, with Link collecting the tears to create a "puddle", but in this case it's more like a higher sea-level already seen in the mysterious room with all glyphs. Now we also know the tears get attached to this lotus flower, which has the famous ability to be ultrahydrophobic, repelling water without absorbing it, could be the same with this flower, hiding it's core without getting affected from time but being a water flower, required to be surrounded by water to bloom and expose the core.

gdq4wwmmq9ja1.jpg


This could explain all the weird changes in the overworld which seem to be only for some parts and to different extension. We will flood current Hyrule with the tears(time) of the kingdom and get "puddles" of the old time appearing, only to get the flower to bloom and reach it's core protected from time, directly from the past. If the end dungeon will be this pyramid like structure with untouched Zonai(old Kingdom) architecture, maybe also the golden ornaments used in the design, my mind would definitely be blown.

2023-03-07-11-05-27-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-13-more-pages-In-Private.png

The "Time Gate" also features a low water-level and I can't unsee it being flooded, especially with Link being conveniently placed for a raise in water-level in this shot.

w1DfzTR.png


I also noticed something worth mentioning in this shot regarding the lost civilization


2023-03-07-11-45-08-TOTKArt-Book-1-pdf-Lumin-Lumin-PDF-Editor-and-11-more-pages-In-Private.png

This looks AMAZING. There is clearly a few artwork that scream Temples. I think it's really plausible we will have 7 temple to collect the tears. Thing is, we might have one before that quest begins and 1-2 afterwards.
 
The one singular thing that gives me hope for Tears of the Kingdom is that there are hints of. Potentially grand story here. Breath of the Wild completely dropped the ball here when it comes to storytelling. I liked what was there but it was definitely an after thought with the world being the only focus. Reusing the base Hyrule map and six years of development time with an even bigger development team hopefully means they were able to develop a much more fulfilling story. One that fans will remember for life.

I think this is the one thing that leaves me hopeful. Nintendo has kept this game basically shrouded in complete secrecy and I'm hoping the game delivers something great even if we have to wait until May 12th to find out. Extreme disappointing but still hoping this game isn't just a slightly expanded BOTW 2.0 but instead an epic grand new adventure that will shock us all and leave us talking for years.

My hype is but a spark of light in the night thanks to Nintendo's lack of coverage for the game but I remain hopeful in the end for something truly special.
 
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FYI, I googled "Zelda Gaiden", and it looks like it was the name for a Nintendo 64 DD add-on for Ocarina of Time that was canceled.
I think that was Ura Zelda

From my understanding, Ura Zelda and Zelda Gaiden were always different projects that were conflated over time
 
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Fuck it. All 2D games are spinoffs of Zelda 1, and all 3D games until BOTW were spinoffs of OOT. Might as well just start saying shit if people think Majora's Mask and TotK are spinoffs. :ROFLMAO:
 
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