Pre-Release Sonic Frontiers - Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: new overview trailer, releasing November 8th)

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
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That's what Unleashed should have been.
Unleashed should have been no werehog at all, day stages exactly as-is, and the beat-em-up stages taken over by Knuckles (and maybe slightly shortened).

I actually thought the gameplay of the werehog parts was enjoyable, I just couldn't get over the fact that it was Sonic transforming into a werewolf. Like, the gameplay was fine but the character and story beats they came up with to make that gameplay happen made it strange for me.

If that makes sense. 😅
 

Quillion

Octorok
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Unleashed should have been no werehog at all, day stages exactly as-is, and the beat-em-up stages taken over by Knuckles (and maybe slightly shortened).

I actually thought the gameplay of the werehog parts was enjoyable, I just couldn't get over the fact that it was Sonic transforming into a werewolf. Like, the gameplay was fine but the character and story beats they came up with to make that gameplay happen made it strange for me.

If that makes sense. 😅

The boost gameplay and the beat-em-up gameplay would still be disconnected from each other, making the experience still incohesive.

Frontiers fusing boost and beat-em-up gameplay can instead allow for things like Sonic being faster and Knuckles having more DPS without having to switch gameplay.
 

robertman2

Cappy
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I'm desperate for this game to be good. Need a decent game out of this series, especially since the movies and comics are pretty rad
 

Mekanos

Hero To Zero
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I'm desperate for this game to be good. Need a decent game out of this series, especially since the movies and comics are pretty rad
Yeah it’s wild that Sonic is currently thriving with popular and successful comics and movies and the games are… well you know.

I know the dev team responsible for Mania dispersed, but it’s still crazy Sega hasn’t tried anything 2D since, besides the remasters.
 

Quillion

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Yeah it’s wild that Sonic is currently thriving with popular and successful comics and movies and the games are… well you know.

I know the dev team responsible for Mania dispersed, but it’s still crazy Sega hasn’t tried anything 2D since, besides the remasters.

What happened to the Mania team? Did Sega fire them because of Simon Thomley's public "insubordination" because of Origins, or did they just move on to more things they want to do?
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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What happened to the Mania team? Did Sega fire them because of Simon Thomley's public "insubordination" because of Origins, or did they just move on to more things they want to do?
About a year or so after Mania it circulated that one or two of the devs who had made up the core "Mania team" had started working on some other games. That team was more of a hodgepodge of different well-known Sonic modders than it was an actual team working at Sega. After the contract was up, they split.

Shoot, we didn't know anything about Headcannon working on S3K for Origins for the whole time they were doing it, so it's possible they and Whitehead are working on another Sonic 2D game as we speak. There was a rumored "Sonic 5" after all, buried in a 4chan or Reddit leak earlier this year which ended up having a lot of accurate bullet points about Frontiers and some other Sonic stuff happening, so.. I mean it's possible that it's happening right under our noses.
 

Tye

All-around Nintendo enjoyer
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There was a rumored "Sonic 5" after all, buried in a 4chan or Reddit leak earlier this year which ended up having a lot of accurate bullet points about Frontiers and some other Sonic stuff happening, so.. I mean it's possible that it's happening right under our noses.
Were there any details given about Sonic 5 in that alleged leak? I’m a blasphemous weirdo who would actually prefer a Sonic 5 to be more like Sonic 4 than Mania, so I’m personally hoping that it’s not the Mania team (or part of it) that’s working on this rumored Sonic 5, if it’s actually a thing. =P
 

YoboD

Moblin
I'm desperate for this game to be good. Need a decent game out of this series, especially since the movies and comics are pretty rad
I’m not really a fan of the movies, but the IDW comic is surprisingly great. Even as someone who’s not a huge Sonic fan (played and enjoyed 1/2/3/Mania and haven’t touched the rest) I really like it. Thinking on it, it’s probably the main reason I want Frontiers to be good.
 

chocolate_supra

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Were there any details given about Sonic 5 in that alleged leak? I’m a blasphemous weirdo who would actually prefer a Sonic 5 to be more like Sonic 4 than Mania, so I’m personally hoping that it’s not the Mania team (or part of it) that’s working on this rumored Sonic 5, if it’s actually a thing. =P
Nope, just was a title on a list of stuff that was supposedly upcoming. 🤷‍♂️ And some of the stuff on the list did end up true. Mebbe, we'll see.
 

Tye

All-around Nintendo enjoyer
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Nope, just was a title on a list of stuff that was supposedly upcoming. 🤷‍♂️ And some of the stuff on the list did end up true. Mebbe, we'll see.
Ah, well I’m curious to see what happens then. I feel like it’d be really weird for them to make another Mania-like game and then call it Sonic 5, ‘cause the whole point of Sonic 4 was that it was supposed to be a bridge of sorts between classic and modern Sonic, so following that up with something that goes back to being full classic Sonic would be odd to me.
 

VolcanicDynamo

1-Up Boy
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Unleashed should have been no werehog at all, day stages exactly as-is, and the beat-em-up stages taken over by Knuckles (and maybe slightly shortened).

I actually thought the gameplay of the werehog parts was enjoyable, I just couldn't get over the fact that it was Sonic transforming into a werewolf. Like, the gameplay was fine but the character and story beats they came up with to make that gameplay happen made it strange for me.

If that makes sense. 😅
It is kind of amazing how much SEGA shot themselves in the foot by following trends and making Sonic a Werewolf. Like honestly, put in Knuckles, advertise the game as "Sonic & Knuckles Unleashed," and bam, the game gets much more good will, even without any gameplay changes.

...there probably should be gameplay tweaks, but hey, never actually played Unleashed HD and I don't have a Xbox console to try it in its 60 FPS glory, hah.
 

ILikeFeet

Pikmin
It is kind of amazing how much SEGA shot themselves in the foot by following trends and making Sonic a Werewolf. Like honestly, put in Knuckles, advertise the game as "Sonic & Knuckles Unleashed," and bam, the game gets much more good will, even without any gameplay changes.

...there probably should be gameplay tweaks, but hey, never actually played Unleashed HD and I don't have a Xbox console to try it in its 60 FPS glory, hah.
the werehog stuff wasn't terrible. wasn't great, but they could have done something with what they had if they pushed it in a sequel
 

Quillion

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The Werehog should've been its own IP honestly. The solid combo brawler gameplay could be even better without the boost gameplay and werehog draining resources from each other.

I'd say Sonic Team needs a break from Sonic and make new IPs that don't have the developmental difficulties that Sonic's speed brings. Let them go back to the days when they could make Ristar and NiGHTS.
 

Boyfriend

Boo
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The Werehog should've been its own IP honestly. The solid combo brawler gameplay could be even better without the boost gameplay and werehog draining resources from each other.

I'd say Sonic Team needs a break from Sonic and make new IPs that don't have the developmental difficulties that Sonic's speed brings. Let them go back to the days when they could make Ristar and NiGHTS.
the werehog was born for the opposite reason though, to give an excuse to make the high quality assets that would be whizzing by in the speed stages. removing it wouldn't have necessarily improved the quality of the daytime stages or increased the amount of them because it literally exists to justify the cost of making them

this is why boost games end up saddled with padding. classic sonic and missions in generations, the blatant filler stages in colors, both of those and the buddy in forces...
 

Hidden04

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The open world and the islands were altered in size multiple times throughout development so Sonic would be able to run around at high speed with a balanced rate of enemies and platforming challenges. Most of the people who played the game said the world does not feel empty because of Sonic speed as well. So I'm not worried about the open world or "open-zone". Sonic controls well too.
 

Quillion

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the werehog was born for the opposite reason though, to give an excuse to make the high quality assets that would be whizzing by in the speed stages. removing it wouldn't have necessarily improved the quality of the daytime stages or increased the amount of them because it literally exists to justify the cost of making them

this is why boost games end up saddled with padding. classic sonic and missions in generations, the blatant filler stages in colors, both of those and the buddy in forces...

That's the thing though, I don't like how Sonic Team has to perpetuate the pattern of big-name dev teams fearing their game being short.

Didn't they make their name by breaking and twisting conventions?
 

VolcanicDynamo

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That's the thing though, I don't like how Sonic Team has to perpetuate the pattern of big-name dev teams fearing their game being short.
That's the unfortunate history of...well, practically every 3D Sonic game. Adventure 1's multiple characters of wildly different playstyles, Adventure 2's multiple missions and gameplay styles, Heroes having four similar campaigns you need to beat to get the final story, Shadow being filled with padding in its branching storyline, Sonic 06's 9 characters and medals and boatloads of extra missions, the aforementioned notes about the boost games...the only one I can think of without padding is Sonic Lost World, which has its own set of problems.
 

Quillion

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That's the unfortunate history of...well, practically every 3D Sonic game. Adventure 1's multiple characters of wildly different playstyles, Adventure 2's multiple missions and gameplay styles, Heroes having four similar campaigns you need to beat to get the final story, Shadow being filled with padding in its branching storyline, Sonic 06's 9 characters and medals and boatloads of extra missions, the aforementioned notes about the boost games...the only one I can think of without padding is Sonic Lost World, which has its own set of problems.

I feel like all of those aren't exactly done for "more playtime", but more with how Sonic Team kinda sucks at implementing new gameplay ideas into Sonic. A lot of the time they just end up taping something undercooked like shooting or treasure hunting to the game instead of properly integrating it into Sonic's gameplay.

Heck, even as far back as S3&K, their attempt to diversify the playable characters back then arguably made Tails and Knuckles's aerial abilities simply not designed for Sonic's gameplay.
 

N75

Moblin
What happened to the Mania team? Did Sega fire them because of Simon Thomley's public "insubordination" because of Origins, or did they just move on to more things they want to do?

About a year or so after Mania it circulated that one or two of the devs who had made up the core "Mania team" had started working on some other games. That team was more of a hodgepodge of different well-known Sonic modders than it was an actual team working at Sega. After the contract was up, they split.

Shoot, we didn't know anything about Headcannon working on S3K for Origins for the whole time they were doing it, so it's possible they and Whitehead are working on another Sonic 2D game as we speak. There was a rumored "Sonic 5" after all, buried in a 4chan or Reddit leak earlier this year which ended up having a lot of accurate bullet points about Frontiers and some other Sonic stuff happening, so.. I mean it's possible that it's happening right under our noses.
Whitehead and a number of Mania devs formed Evening Star and are now working on a 3D Platformer for Private Division (Take Two)

Headcannon as far as I know isn't involved.
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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Whitehead and a number of Mania devs formed Evening Star and are now working on a 3D Platformer for Private Division (Take Two)

Headcannon as far as I know isn't involved.
Oh, awesome! I hadn't seen may details about what Whitehead was up to, only that he was doing something and that Headcannon had just recently released their own game.
 

TreIII

Triceraton
Founder
I like it.

Stuff like Devil May Cry and Modern!Sonic is at its best when it fully embraces that early-mid 00s from whence it came. So I think it's fitting.

Also, the idea that friggin SONIC gets ONE OK before a major Shonen anime does is both hilarious and awesome.
 

linkwashere

Space Warrior
Not feeling it unfortunately, it's underwhelming.

Me neither to be honest.

I know some people here have changed their minds since the first presentation of the game and they are now hyped for it, so I don't want to bring down any positivity around here because the franchise needs it, but these latest trailers look... the same as before? Automatic rail sections on the sky totally disjoited from the world with bumpers working as elevators to reach them and a combat system focused on running in circles around your enemies to activate a flashy automatic attack? Oook...

I think combat in 3D platforms is a hard challange to solve since forever and Mario proved one time after the other that enemies in a 3D space work better as obstacles in your path than as "enemies" per se.

Problem is, when the space is so open like in Sonic Frontiers, enemies can't be obstacles because you can ignore them no problem. Odyssey faced that same issue and very intelligently used enemies as powerups to let you access other places and change the pace of the game (because with such big areas, you need to change it... hence the sub areas with more concetrated challenges, similar to what Frontiers is proposing), altering the mechanics of what is a traditional Mario game but solving this issue of what to do with an enemy in an open space.

In the case of Sonic Frontiers, the proposal of running in circles around them to then press a button and defeat them it's surely... something.
 
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Maronic03

Maronic03

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Me neither to be honest.

I know some people here have changed their minds since the first presentation of the game and they are now hyped for it, so I don't want to bring down any positivity around here because the franchise needs it, but these latest trailers look... the same as before? Automatic rail sections on the sky totally disjoited from the world with bumpers working as elevators to reach them and a combat system focused on running in circles around your enemies to activate a flashy automatic attack? Oook...

I think combat in 3D platforms is a hard challange to solve since forever and Mario proved one time after the other that enemies in a 3D space work better as obstacles in your path than as "enemies" per se.

Problem is, when the space is so open like in Sonic Frontiers, enemies can't be obstacles because you can ignore them no problem. Odyssey faced that same issue and very intelligently used enemies as powerups to let you access other places and change the pace of the game (because with such big areas, you need to change it... hence the sub areas with more concetrated challenges, similar to what Frontiers is proposing), altering the mechanics of what is a traditional Mario game but solving this issue of what to do with an enemy in an open space.

In the case of Sonic Frontiers, the proposal of running in circles around them to then press a button and defeat them it's surely... something.
I was only talking about the music. It left me completely unimpressed.
 
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Quillion

Octorok
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Automatic rail sections on the sky totally disjoited from the world with bumpers working as elevators to reach them and a combat system focused on running in circles around your enemies to activate a flashy automatic attack?

TBH, that's just the problem with open world and flashy setpieces in general: one gels poorly with the other.

You'd just have to debate the merits of setpieces in general at that point.
 

Twinsen

Moblin
I really dislike the lack of finetuning in this game. It saddens me that sonicteam never reassesses an idea that has run its course in previous games. The homing attack has become incredibly overpowered and frankly I hate it. It should have less reach. It's way too much and cheapens the gameplay. It was perfect in the adventure games.
 

Quillion

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I really dislike the lack of finetuning in this game. It saddens me that sonicteam never reassesses an idea that has run its course in previous games. The homing attack has become incredibly overpowered and frankly I hate it. It should have less reach. It's way too much and cheapens the gameplay. It was perfect in the adventure games.

Sonic kinda needs the homing attack in 3D since it helps keep the flow of speed in that dimension.
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
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Sonic kinda needs the homing attack in 3D since it helps keep the flow of speed in that dimension.
Yeah I remember what it was like to aim Mario's jumps onto enemies in 64, I imagine that sort of teeth-gritting hope with every hit is what 3D Sonic without the homing attack would be like. 😅

Though I do agree with @Twinsen that it's gotten to have an overly long reach. In Adventure it felt like "okay you're close enough, push the button again to home in" but now it's like "here's a beep and a reticle to alert you to the fact that there's an enemy way the eff over there, hit the button again to pull a Noctis"
 

Quillion

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Yeah I remember what it was like to aim Mario's jumps onto enemies in 64, I imagine that sort of teeth-gritting hope with every hit is what 3D Sonic without the homing attack would be like. 😅

Though I do agree with @Twinsen that it's gotten to have an overly long reach. In Adventure it felt like "okay you're close enough, push the button again to home in" but now it's like "here's a beep and a reticle to alert you to the fact that there's an enemy way the eff over there, hit the button again to pull a Noctis"
I'd say it depends. Sonic Adventure makes sense with a shorter homing attack range. But if he's going F-Zero fast like in the Boost games, a longer range is needed.
 

Quillion

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They should just give Sonic a gun. Guns worked for the franchise in the past and they would work well again!
Sonic canonically hates guns according to the game in question tho.

Besides, given that a few games let him shoot compressed air waves, why does he even need a gun?
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
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They should just give Sonic a gun. Guns worked for the franchise in the past and they would work well again!
OPlF9Ef.png

mario was given a gun and it worked out well. maybe you're onto something
vJC2JCF.png
 

GoGoDezmo

Animal Buddy
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Watches this video:


remembers that the name of the islands in this game are the STARFALL Islands

remembers that the Islands we know of so far are named after Greek Gods

remembers that we keep getting subtle hints that Frontiers will delve deeper into the origins of the Chaos Emeralds


...You don't think...?
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
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Watches this video:


remembers that the name of the islands in this game are the STARFALL Islands

remembers that the Islands we know of so far are named after Greek Gods

remembers that we keep getting subtle hints that Frontiers will delve deeper into the origins of the Chaos Emeralds


...You don't think...?
I can't believe I watched the whole thing

That was compelling
 


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