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News Pokemon Scarlet and Violet sold 10 million in the first 3 days

Bowser Sr.

Octorok
Pronouns
He Him
In terms of Pokemon games, would you want a linear game that runs and looks good or an open world game that runs and looks bad?
Open world that looks bad for me. The sense of adventure IMO is more important than the frame rate in a game of this sort and as far as I'm concerned the franchise should strive to give us a sense of wandering fun that we saw in the anime when we were kids.
 

Phantom Thief

Life Will Change
Pronouns
He/Him
Interesting, bc with the way people have been reacting, it made me think that a good performing SwSh would be better than SV
What people reacting where? Almost every single "this game should absolutely not have released in this state" comment also makes sure to note how great the core design is, and how they want more of that, just polished.
 
0
Pronouns
He/Him
That doesn't really fix it, as you're wording with the assumption that Scarlet and Violet are still jank in this scenario, but even so, I would take Scarlet and Violet.


This doesn't matter. Scarlet and Violet's performance is jank, but fine. It doesn't impact gameplay to any significant degree.


You keep framing this question absurdly as "god-tier graphics and performance Sword/Shield versus regular Scarlet/Violet," and this is still an unrealistic comparison and an extremely loaded question where you seem to have predetermined that the smart answer is Sword/Shield.
Can you really blame me for thinking that after the reactions I have been seeing for SV, I seriously believe that because of the reactions that many of the hardcore fans would get rid of any improvements SV have made if it means the games don't run horribly
.
 
Pronouns
He/Him
What people reacting where? Almost every single "this game should absolutely not have released in this state" comment also makes sure to note how great the core design is, and how they want more of that, just polished.
The other place for starters, I have seen people alone say that the performance alone makes SV an awful game, regardless for what the core design is like.
 

Hailinel

Musou Mania!
Can you really blame me for thinking that after the reactions I have been seeing for SV, I seriously believe that because of the reactions that many of the hardcore fans would get rid of any improvements SV have made if it means the games don't run horribly
.
Vocal reactionaries generally don't speak gospel. How many times do we have to go over the fact that the extremely vocal and angry Pokemon fans represent an extreme minority?
 

Skittzo

Kong
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
Bugs are one thing but I feel like most people online vastly, vastly, vastly overestimate how much of the mass market cares at all about performance and visuals. I can't think of a single game that can attribute its sales success to visuals only.

And even bugs, if they're not major or game breaking they can actually help a game sell.
 
0
Pronouns
He/Him
Criticism of bugs and the absurd, frankly unacceptable, lack of polish =/= "I want them to go back to Sword/Shield style"
Ig but the way they say it, it makes seem like they would prefer it as they think Gamefreak have been too ambitious for their work, which is why it runs terribly.
Vocal reactionaries generally don't speak gospel. How many times do we have to go over the fact that the extremely vocal and angry Pokemon fans represent an extreme minority?
That's true, ig I should just ignore them
 

Mekanos

Kuwabara The Man
Pronouns
he/they
The open world as it is in SV is fine but I would like to see caves, dungeons etc. return. Optional ones too, stuff that you find off the beaten path and whatnot.

SWSH is the worst of both worlds though. It's highly linear and also doesn't have any interesting locations or areas.
 
Pronouns
He/Him
What is it about Pokémon that makes people come out with just the most embarrassing takes
Some people never outgrew the Pokémon is for kids phase and all its implications, wich leads to everything else.

OK, so let me fix it for you, would you want a game that's very much like SwSh with all its flaws, but without the wild area, and it looks good and peforms like a dream or would you want Scarlett and Violet?
Gameplay design over performance. Always.

My least favorite Pokémon game is gorgeous and runs like a dream on 3DS, but it's a linear slog that has literally put me to sleep a few times. Neither SUMO and USUM are games i ever want to go back to because they're such a boring drag.

SV, with all its flaws, does amazing things to advance the series forwards.
 

Phantom Thief

Life Will Change
Pronouns
He/Him
Ig but the way they say it, it makes seem like they would prefer it as they think Gamefreak have been too ambitious for their work, which is why it runs terribly.

That's true, ig I should just ignore them
The way who says it? Why does it even matter?

I just don't understand why what some random people are saying on ResetEra or Twitter or Reddit or wherever matters so much. I am not saying their criticism is invalid or should be dismissed off-hand, almost every criticism this game has received for its tech is valid and thoroughly deserved, but why is the opinion of some for whom the technical state of these games overwhelmed everything else about them given so much more scrutiny and weight over the face of overwhelming evidence that people do, in fact, warts and all, seem to really enjoy the direction these games take?
 

Sol

Shriekbat
Man "just catching Pokemon" is doing an incredible amount of heavy lifting in that sentence

I've said this before and I'll say it again, nothing in Elden Ring made me nearly as excited as finding a random Shroomish in this game (if you've noticed I keep using Shroomish in my examples, it's because that was the one where my excitement shocked me the most, but I feel basically that excited for any Pokemon). But that also comes down to how much I dislike how Elden Ring rewards players, imo

Like, what could you want out of an open world reward? A new weapon? Pokemon. Enemy variety? Pokemon. Lore? Pokedex entries, which you get by catching Pokemon. Collectibles? Pokemon. They're like the Swiss army knife of rewards

There could be plenty of rewards for open world quests and side stories. Lucky Eggs, special evolution items, mints, rare berries, unique clothing and cosmetic items not available in shops, even shiny Pokemon or Pokemon with special egg moves. The sky is the limit.
 

Leica

Like Like
Pronouns
he/him
I found SV fairly enjoyable but I kind of fail to see what it does to push the series forward so much outside of it's basic and pedestrian open world. For every small gameplay improvement they've taken steps back and regressed in other areas. It really doesn't play that well IMO.
 

Raccoon

North American vermin
Pronouns
He/Him
OK, so let me fix it for you, would you want a game that's very much like SwSh with all its flaws, but without the wild area, and it looks good and peforms like a dream or would you want Scarlett and Violet?
I actually sort of approached this topic earlier this week

it's a very charming complete fucking disaster

I greatly prefer this over sword and shield being mid in every respect
 

NabiscoFelt

CrossCode superfan
Pronouns
he/him
There could be plenty of rewards for open world quests and side stories. Lucky Eggs, special evolution items, mints, rare berries, unique clothing and cosmetic items not available in shops, even shiny Pokemon or Pokemon with special egg moves. The sky is the limit.
Sure, there could be more. But that doesn't make what's there any less rewarding. And I mean, a lot of these are kinda rewards already? Raids provide a ton of these already and serve as exploration rewards, and you can find special items, berries, and mints in the overworld as well. Agree that cosmetics would be a sick reward though

Also maybe this just comes down to how I judge video games but I don't tend to consider the lack of something as something worth docking points for. As in, I don't feel "man this game is missing X I really enjoyed in Y". It's not that I don't think a game might be improved by the inclusion of said things, but it doesn't really come up to me when playing. I judge a game based on whether I like or dislike what's actually present, and what's present in S/V is, to me at least, incredibly compelling.
 

Phantom Thief

Life Will Change
Pronouns
He/Him
Family game sales will never be affected by online complaints. Never. Only mature games with major online hype can be affected (like Cyberpunk).
I will modify this, if the core game design of your product is sound or appealing, the game will overcome any lack of polish or jank and do great anyway. There is a reason that Skyrim or Fallout New Vegas or Destiny or Diablo did well in spite of all the shit (deservedly) thrown their way, but Cyberpunk or Assassin's Creed Unity did not, because the core design in those games was vapid, and even once the jank was smoothed out, there's not a lot there to love (I am sure there are many who do like those games a lot, I am speaking from a broader perspective here). There is a reason that games like No Man's Sky or Fallout 76 or Sea of Thieves were able to rally from poor launches, but something like Anthem could not, because the former group had a very strong and sound conceptual loop that had been executed poorly at launch, but got fixed later; something like Anthem did not have that.

Pokemon falls in the group where the core design (even absent the open world and changes in S/V, even just regular old Pokemon) is overwhelmingly strong. The game would need to be literally broken (as in actually unpalayble for the bulk of its audience) for any technical issues to outweigh that design.
 
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Christo750

Koopa
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Man "just catching Pokemon" is doing an incredible amount of heavy lifting in that sentence

I've said this before and I'll say it again, nothing in Elden Ring made me nearly as excited as finding a random Shroomish in this game (if you've noticed I keep using Shroomish in my examples, it's because that was the one where my excitement shocked me the most, but I feel basically that excited for any Pokemon). But that also comes down to how much I dislike how Elden Ring rewards players, imo

Like, what could you want out of an open world reward? A new weapon? Pokemon. Enemy variety? Pokemon. Lore? Pokedex entries, which you get by catching Pokemon. Collectibles? Pokemon. They're like the Swiss army knife of rewards
I agree with everything you said. but this is, IMO, still the untapped potential of Pokemon. Their application within the open world only scratches the surface. Swimming in rivers, check. Sleeping under trees, check. Hordes of Tauros, check. But the 3D equivalent of finding Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave in R/B/Y is still just a Pokémon standing still in the middle of a wide open room, or stock animations of a Pokémon pacing back and forth, or a slapped together cutscene with the cuts being freeze frames fading into each other. Crown Tundra helped with this a little bit, but there’s still room to grow.

I want to go into a cave and realize it’s a den of a powerful Pokémon. Once you wake it up from its slumber, it gets enraged and its attack goes up because you’re in its home and it feels threatened. They only get into behaviors in text, but there are still no satisfying events surrounding legendary Pokémon in the bigger 3D games. I don’t need to see the Drifloon carrying a child off (nothing that intense) but I just want to see something exciting.
 

Phantom Thief

Life Will Change
Pronouns
He/Him
I agree with everything you said. but this is, IMO, still the untapped potential of Pokemon. Their application within the open world only scratches the surface. Swimming in rivers, check. Sleeping under trees, check. Hordes of Tauros, check. But the 3D equivalent of finding Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave in R/B/Y is still just a Pokémon standing still in the middle of a wide open room, or stock animations of a Pokémon pacing back and forth, or a slapped together cutscene with the cuts being freeze frames fading into each other. Crown Tundra helped with this a little bit, but there’s still room to grow.

I want to go into a cave and realize it’s a den of a powerful Pokémon. Once you wake it up from its slumber, it gets enraged and its attack goes up because you’re in its home and it feels threatened. They only get into behaviors in text, but there are still no satisfying events surrounding legendary Pokémon in the bigger 3D games. I don’t need to see the Drifloon carrying a child off (nothing that intense) but I just want to see something exciting.
Legends kind of does this (not nearly as much as they can though, I agree, untapped potential is correct)
 

Christo750

Koopa
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Legends kind of does this (not nearly as much as they can though, I agree, untapped potential is correct)
It sort of does. Like finding the Zorua in that ice cave is cool but it’s again, just standing there with stock animations.

The boss Pokémon were great applications of this.
 
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Galgavias

Bob-omb
I think the turn based nature of Pokemon does help people overlook a lot of the bugs and performance issues. People notice framerate drops more in action games where it can be a matter of life or death for your character. In Pokemon if the frame rate chugs while you use Thundershock, it doesn't have an impact on the gameplay, it just kinda sucks. Ultimately I think that's why Pokemon fans are so forgiving when the games perform badly. It doesn't detract from the core gameplay enough to make it that big an issue.

And wading into the open world debate a bit, it's not really about filling them with 'stuff', it's about making exploring them exciting. BOTW excels at this - "Wow check out that massive landmark over there I wonder what would happen if I explOH MY GOD A BLOODY DRAGON!" Again if searching every nook and cranny to complete your Pokedex is your bag, then fair enough, but the best open world games do more than just have you travel from point A to point B just doing the same thing and seeing the same terrain.
 
Staff Post New

Red Monster

Rawr
Moderator
Pronouns
He/Him
Staff Communication
Hey folks. We know that the topic of performance problems with Pokemon Scarlet and Violet are a hot button issue, and it’s something that a lot of people feel very strongly about. Conversations about these problems are of course encouraged, but please don’t disparage people for liking the games despite the performance. Speaking of performance, it’s ok to criticize the game’s technical issues, but let’s not imply that games development is anything other than hard work. As always, be considerate and respectful. - Red Monster, PixelKnight, Aurc
 
Pronouns
He/Him
Can you please not do this again? Seriously.
You, understandably, probably won't believe this but it's never my attention to ask stupid questions or try to stoke a war or something.
I genuinely believe that what I am asking is a good discussion and it's only after other users respond to me that I realise what I am saying is a terrible discussion.

I am really sorry
 

bellydrum

website dad
Administrator
Pronouns
he / him
You, understandably, probably won't believe this but it's never my attention to ask stupid questions or try to stoke a war or something.
I genuinely believe that what I am asking is a good discussion and it's only after other users respond to me that I realise what I am saying is a terrible discussion.

I am really sorry

Like last time, I think the core of what you're asking is perfectly fine.

But like last time, you refer to these "other people" and weighing their opinions far greater than everyone responding to you here.

It's naturally frustrating for anybody you're talking to when you repeatedly say "well most of what I hear is the opposite", especially if you're using that to counter someone's opinion.

That's all.

The question itself isn't a problem, it's the way you ask it that sounds super misleading and like you're trying to prove some point.
 

NabiscoFelt

CrossCode superfan
Pronouns
he/him
Yep, discovering new Pokémon is like, the main appeal of the game. The experience can be enriched for sure, maybe add more unique locales, puzzles and secrets. But like, I'm almost all the time only looking for new Pokémon, I put a waypoint to the next badge but keep on sidetracking :p

I think trying to fill the Pokédex might bring a different vibe to the game, not sure if I would like it as much if I was just rushing for the badges
Yeah I do think that if it wasn't for Legends priming me to actually want to "catch em all" I might've been harsher on Scarlet as a whole

Or maybe my "catch em all" transition would've just been postponed, hard to tell. Both games, in my opinion, do a better job of incentivizing Pokedex completion than any prior title. Arceus does it better obviously since the game's main progression loop is tied to it, but even Scarlet and Violet does more in that direction than prior titles with its incremental rewards for completion and its pretty cool Pokedex structure (plus the spinny book thing new Pokedex entries do is great, top tier collection-animation-thing)

And yes despite me loving the game, I do think there's areas for improvement in what you can do around the open world. I'm very satisfied with the loop as is but it's not like it wouldn't be improved by more interesting landmarks, overworld puzzles, secrets, and sidequests.

But I also think that sort of thing about my favorite game of all time (Breath of the Wild). So that's not really a judging factor for me
 

Hylianhero777

Tektite
Pronouns
He/Him
Honestly even if performance is fixed, my biggest issue with this game is that the move to open world + what was obviously a troubled development + not nearly enough time led to the total gutting of anything outside of the main story and world scope wise. No minigames or side activities outside the awful sandwich thing, no interesting NPCs to talk to, towns are an absolute series worst in terms of actual content to find there, etc. So for those reasons I hope TPC doesn't take the wrong lessons from this game's success because imo it definitely does not feel all that deserving of it, especially in the state it came out in.
 
Pronouns
He/Him
Like last time, I think the core of what you're asking is perfectly fine.

But like last time, you refer to these "other people" who believe the opposite people here are saying, and seem to weigh these invisible peoples' opinion far greater than that of the people responding to you here.

It's naturally frustrating for anybody you're talking to when you repeatedly say "well most of what I hear is the opposite", especially if you're using that to counter someone's opinion.
Yeah I realise and need to do better at realising that even online most people will be favourable to Pokemon and Gamefreak and the people that aren't are the minority, like that other user said.
I think that the toxic discourse surrounding SwSh ruined that for me, as I saw far more people bring unfavourable towards Gamefreak than being favourable and so I just, very wrongly assume, that if ur online, ur much more likely to be unfavourable than bring favourable.

I will try and be better.
 

bellydrum

website dad
Administrator
Pronouns
he / him
Yeah I realise and need to do better at realising that even online most people will be favourable to Pokemon and Gamefreak and the people that aren't are the minority, like that other user said.
I think that the toxic discourse surrounding SwSh ruined that for me, as I saw far more people bring unfavourable towards Gamefreak than being favourable and so I just, very wrongly assume, that if ur online, ur much more likely to be unfavourable than bring favourable.

I will try and be better.

I think you're still misunderstanding

It's not about which opinion anybody holds. That doesn't matter.

It's asking a leading question and relentlessly questioning the responses when they don't align with what you've heard "most people" say that's the problem
 
Pronouns
He/Him
it's because you tend to ask rhetorical questions seemingly in pursuit of a specific preconceived response

no, I do not want boring games that look better, even if they look really, really good
When I am asking it, I (for some reason) don't realise that I am asking a question with an answer that I want, but when the person responds.
It seems really obvious and I don't understand why I don't see it myself beforehand
 
Pronouns
He/Him
I think you're still misunderstanding

It's not about which opinion anybody holds. That doesn't matter.

It's asking a leading question and relentlessly questioning the responses when they don't align with what you've heard "most people" say that's the problem
I genuinely don't realise that I am doing that, I just thinking I am having a honest and fair discussion, when I am not.
Edit:
Sorry for the thread derail
 

YoboD

Bob-omb
I think the turn based nature of Pokemon does help people overlook a lot of the bugs and performance issues. People notice framerate drops more in action games where it can be a matter of life or death for your character. In Pokemon if the frame rate chugs while you use Thundershock, it doesn't have an impact on the gameplay, it just kinda sucks. Ultimately I think that's why Pokemon fans are so forgiving when the games perform badly. It doesn't detract from the core gameplay enough to make it that big an issue.

And wading into the open world debate a bit, it's not really about filling them with 'stuff', it's about making exploring them exciting. BOTW excels at this - "Wow check out that massive landmark over there I wonder what would happen if I explOH MY GOD A BLOODY DRAGON!" Again if searching every nook and cranny to complete your Pokedex is your bag, then fair enough, but the best open world games do more than just have you travel from point A to point B just doing the same thing and seeing the same terrain.

Yeah I think this is the crux of it. The performance and bugs are obviously terrible and inexcusable, and if people can’t look past that then fair enough. Personally speaking though it doesn’t bother me as much here in a turn based combat system as much as it would if I was playing Zelda, or Bayonetta, or Dark Souls or any other game that relies on twitch-based action gameplay.
 

DittoM

Piranha Plant
Pronouns
He/Him
I love open world games. Elden Ring, Horizon, etc.

The Paldea region is just undeniably empty. There are no surprises or anything unique to discover out in the world like those other games. It's just catching Pokemon in bland environments.
Even ignoring the fact that your greatly underselling all the stuff there is to do in the open world, If you don’t like catching Pokémon then why are you playing a Pokémon game?
 

Hailinel

Musou Mania!
I genuinely don't realise that I am doing that, I just thinking I am having a honest and fair discussion, when I am not.
Edit:
Sorry for the thread derail
For what it's worth, going back to your original question, it would have been better to ask how S/V compares to people's favorite linear Pokémon title. Some people may say they just flat-out prefer their favorite older game in all respects, but S/V does a lot of creative and interesting things with its design that Pokémon hasn't attempted before, and there are reasons people may prefer it over their old favorite at least for some reasons if not overall.

The ability to freely go and tackle the gyms in any order, for example, is something that's game-changing in itself. It's a defining element of S/V and something so fresh to Pokémon that, even with the game's flaws, is likely a major draw for Pokémon fans worn down by the linear approach of the preceding gens, even if they still enjoy a particular earlier gen more at the end of the day.
 


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