Discussion Pokémon Gen 9 Metagame |ST| To Be the Very Best

[Deleted member 2]

Figured I'd make a thread of resources and references while EV training for Pokémon Scarlet & Violet Battle Season 1.

Let's discuss strategies, builds, and ideas for Pokémon battling!

Jumping in to competitive Pokémon battling is easier than ever.

​

Spoiler: EV TRAINING GUIDE

EV Training​

Can I get a simple explanation of EVs?

EVs, or "effort values", are a hidden number underneath each stat of your Pokémon.
Effort values are supposed to represent the unique experience your Pokémon has gained from each Pokémon it has fought.
For example, if your Pokémon has fought a ton of Geodudes (a very bulky Pokémon), then your Pokémon's effort values will create a higher Defense stat, as if your Pokémon has "learned" it from all the Geodudes it has fought.


So how do EVs work then, exactly?

You can think of EVs as stat points that your Pokemon earn outside of leveling up.
One (1) EV is equal to one quarter (1/4) of a stat point.
This means that if your Pokémon earns four (4) EVs in Attack, its Attack stat will go up by one point.


But how do you earn EVs?

Simple - by defeating Pokémon that give you EVs for the stat you want.
Do you want to boost your Pokémon's Special Defense stat by +63?
Well, Hoppips yield 1 Special Defense EV per one defeated, so defeat (63 * 4) Hoppips and you're golden!


Whoah, whoah, wait a second. That's a lot of Hoppips to defeat. That's... ridiculous, right?

Welcome to the metagame. We have lots of grinding!
But seriously, this is where the Power Items come in. These make the process way faster.
Power Items (such as Power Bracer) provide an additional +8 EVs toward a specific stat every time the holding Pokémon earns EXP.
This means that your Hoppip will yield 9 EVs toward Special Defense per one defeated, instead of just 1 EV.
Which means that, when your training Pokémon is holding a Power Band, you'll only need to defeat 28 Hoppips! Which is far better than 252, imo.

Pretty cool. Are there limitations?

Yep, otherwise this would be pretty broken.
Each of your Pokémon's stats can only earn 255 EVs.
Each Pokémon can earn a total of 510 EVs.
This means that you can only maximize two (2) stats with EV training.
Which is perfect, since there are typically only ever two stats necessary for a given Pokémon build.


I messed up and earned EVs toward a stat I don't care about. How can I erase EVs for a particular stat and start over?

Easy, use a specific berry on your Pokémon and the EVs for a specific stat will be erased.
This is especially important if you want to EV train a Pokémon you've been using in your main party throughout the game.
Likely your Pokémon will have EVs spread across all stats, making it impossible to allot the maximum amount towards a single (or two) stats without hitting the 510 EV ceiling.

The following berries will erase EVs for a given stat:

Berry​	EVs Erased
Pomeg Berry​	Erases HP EVs​
Kelpsy Berry​	Erases Attack EVs​
Qualot Berry​	Erases Defense EVs
Hondew Berry​	Erases Sp. Atk EVs
Grepa Berry​	Erases Sp. Def EVs
Tomato Berry​	Erases Speed EVs

So what does an EV training session typically look like, from start to finish?

Step 1: Planning

• I want my Goldhengo to maximize its Special Attack stat.
• In order to do this, I must EV train my Goldhengo in Special Attack.

Step 2: Equip the correct Power Item to the Pokémon you want to EV train

• Since the Power Lens gives +8 Special Attack EVs per experience gain, I will equip the Power Lens to my Goldhengo.

Step 3: Find a Pokémon that yields Special Attack EVs

• According to my chart below, Rotom yields 1 Special Attack EV per defeat.
• This means that, with the Power Lens equipped, my Goldhengo will earn 9 Special Attack EVs (2 points + .25 left over) per Rotom.
• Which means that I'll need to defeat 28 Rotoms to add a maximum of 63 Special Attack stat points to my Goldhengo.

Step 4: Eat the correct sandwich to increase the encounter rate of the Pokémon you want to defeat

• Rotoms are the Electric type, so the best sandwich I could eat would be the Avocado Sandwich.

Step 5: Defeat 28 Rotoms

• With the encounter power active thanks to the Avocado Sandwich, I can more easily defeat 28 Rotoms.
• To check that the stat is maximized, I look at Goldhengo's stats in the Summary page and press L to view the EV graph.
• If the EVs for a stat are maxed out, there will be a sparkle around the stat name.

And that's it! By engaging in this method, and using the chart below, you can pump up your Pokémon to competitive levels.

EV training reference guide​

EV yield​	Pokemon​	Location​	Suggested Sandwich for encounter​	Encounter Power​	Hold item during training​
1 HP​	Paldean Wooper​	The lakes in South Province (Area One)​	Great Herbed-Sausage Sandwich (Onion x1, Lettuce x1, Ketchup x1, Mustard x1)​	Ground​	Power Weight​
2 HP​	Tropius​	Just north of Medali Town​	60 - Egg Sandwich (Egg x1, Pickle x1, Salt x1, Mayonnaise x1)​	Flying​	Power Weight​
1 Atk​	Pawniard​	​	​	Dark​	Power Bracer​
2 Atk​	Bisharp​			Dark​	Power Bracer​
1 Def​	Rolycoly​	Just east of Zapapico​	20 - Pickle Sandwich​	Fire​	Power Weight​
2 Def​	Carkol​	Just east of Zapapico​	20 - Pickle Sandwich​	Fire​	Power Weight​
1 Sp. Atk​	Rotom​	Around the Porto Marinada Lighthouse​	44 - Avocado Sandwich (Avocado x1, Smoked Fillet x1, Salt x1)​	Electric​	Power Lens​
2 Sp. Atk​	Kirlia​	Around the Porto Marinada Lighthouse​	​	​	Power Lens​
1 Sp. Def​	Hoppip​	Poco Path (fukken everywhere)​	60 - Egg Sandwich (Egg x1, Pickle x1, Salt x1, Mayonnaise x1)​	Flying​	​ Power Band​ ​
2 Sp. Def​	Floette​	North Province (Area Three)​	72 - BLT Sandwich (Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, Mayonnaise, Mustard)​	Fairy​	Power Band​
1 Spe​	​	​	​	​	​
2 Spe​	​	​	​	​	​

Below are the ingredients used in the sandwiches listed above, along with the location from which you can buy them.

Spoiler: sandwich ingredients

• Onion
• Lettuce
• Ketchup
• Mustard
• Egg
• Pickle
• Salt x 2
• Mayonnaise
• Avocado
• Smoked Fillet

Spoiler: SANDWICHES REFERENCE

Encounter Power sandwiches
​

Spoiler: Encounter Power sandwiches reference

Desired type to encounter​	Sandwich No.​	Sandwich​	Ingredients​
Normal​	80​	Ham Sandwich​	Pickle, Ham, Mayonnaise, Mustard​
Fire​	20​	Pickle Sandwich​	Pickle, Olive Oil​
Water​	56​	Zesty Sandwich​	Jalapeño, Onion, Herbed Sausage, Chili Sauce​
Grass​	104​	Klawf Claw Sandwich​	Klawf Stick, Tomato, Lettuce, Salt, Olive Oil​
Electric​	44​	Avocado Sandwich​	Avocado, Smoked Fillet, Salt​
Ice​	​	Ultra Sushi Sandwich​	​
Fighting​	28​	Herbed-Sausage Sandwich​	Sausage, Ketchup​
Poison​	48​	Noodle Sandwich​	Noodles, Olive Oil, Ketchup​
Ground​	1​	Jambon-Buerre​	Ham, Butter​
Flying​	60​	Egg Sandwich​	Egg, Pickle, Salt, Mayonnaise​
Psychic​	92​	Smoky Sandwich​	Smoked Fillet, Watercress, Vinegar, Pepper, Salt​
Bug​	84​	Cheese Sandwich​	Cheese, Cream Cheese, Pepper, Salt​
Rock​	73​	Great BLT Sandwich​	Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, Basil, Mayonnaise, Mustard​
Ghost​	64​	Classic Bocadillo​	Prosciutto, Cheese, Potato Tortilla, Olive Oil​
Dark​	100​	Variety Sandwich​	Prosciutto, Tomato, Smoked Fillet, Salt, Vinegar​
Dragon​	45​	Great Avocado Sandwich​	Avocado, Smoked Fillet, Tomato, Salt​
Steel​	116​	Hefty Sandwicfh​	Potato Tortilla, Fried Fillet, Prosciutto, Potato Salad, Salt, Peanut Butter​
Fairy​	72​	BLT Sandwich​	Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato, Mayonnaise, Mustard​

Egg Power sandwiches​

Spoiler: Egg Power sandwiches reference

Note: Egg Power Lv. 2 and 3 sandwiches work the exact same as Egg Power Lv. 1 sandwiches.

Egg Power level​	Sandwich No.​	Sandwich​	Ingredients​
1​	12​	Jam Sandwich​	Strawberry, Jam​
2​	NOT WORTH IT​	NOT WORTH IT​	NOT WORTH IT​
3​	NOT WORTH IT​	NOT WORTH IT​	NOT WORTH IT​

Sparkling Power sandwiches​

Spoiler: Sparking Power sandwiches reference

Use the table below to find the least amount of necessary ingredients for each Sparkling Power sandwich.
Thanks to TTiN on Discord.

Type​	Ingredient​	Herba Mystica​	Other effects​	6-star raids to farm​
Normal​	Chorizo​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Fire​	Basil​	Sweet, Salty​	​	​
Water​	Cucumber​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Grass​	Lettuce​	Salty, Sour​	​	​
Flying​	Prosciutto​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Fighting​	Pickle​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Poison​	Noodles​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Electric​	Yellow Bell Pepper​	Salty, Spicy​	​	​
Ground​	Ham​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Rock​	Jalapeño​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Psychic​	White Onion​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Ice​	Klawf Stick​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Bug​	Cherry Tomatoes​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Ghost​	Red Onion​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Steel​	Hamburger​	Sweet, Salty​	​	​
Dragon​	Avocado​	Salty x 2​	​	​
Dark​	Smoked Fillet​	Sweet, Salty​	​	​
Fairy​	Tomatoes​	Salty x 2​	​	​

 

[Deleted member 2]

How is everybody doing in Ranked Battles?

I'm wrapping up EV training my Arboliva and then taking my trained Pokemon to see how I do in Ranked. A lil' nervous

 

[Weebos]

Haven't started Ranked yet because I'm still figuring what I want for my team. Trying to breed a nice Kilowattrel right now while watching some Ranked streams and I've hatched like two boxes worth lol.

 

[Metroid]

I've got some ideas for a ranked team... nothing too creative, but it'll definitely take some work

 

[Deleted member 2]

Haven't started Ranked yet because I'm still figuring what I want for my team. Trying to breed a nice Kilowattrel right now while watching some Ranked streams and I've hatched like two boxes worth lol.

Honestly you don't even need to breed anymore with Bottle Caps and Mints

 

[Apopheniac]

tbh you can just train up raid mons in a lot of cases, they have perfect IVs and you're raiding anyway to get cash, which you need to buy caps/mints/etc

You could also mix and match: get raid mons for needed HAs, breed them to pass on the HAs and get a matching Tera type, then instead of hatching dozens of eggs for a perfect mon, hatch a few to get an almost perfect one and fix it with items

 

[Weebos]

Honestly you don't even need to breed anymore with Bottle Caps and Mints

I've been making a lot of competitive Pokemon, so my resources are pretty low despite doing over 100 5/6 star raids lol.

Though I suppose one tournament is 4 bottle caps with amulet coin lol.

I bred like 4 boxes of Wattrel purely out of stubborness, but didn't end up getting what I was looking for so I just bottle capped the one bad stat on the 0 Attack one I got. I wanted Competitive but I figured I would try Wind Power, actually seems good.

 

[Nmanic]

I have personally EV trained by getting hella money from 5 star raids and then buying stat boosters from Chansey supply.

Shoutouts to @bellydrum and his Kilowatrell for kicking my ass .

Rn I only have half a team properly trained, I may come back and think about the other half/how I want to balance it. I love a lot of the new mons that are viable, so it's tempting to go online

 

[Deleted member 2]

I have personally EV trained by getting hella money from 5 star raids and then buying stat boosters from Chansey supply.

Shoutouts to @bellydrum and his Kilowatrell for kicking my ass .

Rn I only have half a team properly trained, I may come back and think about the other half/how I want to balance it. I love a lot of the new mons that are viable, so it's tempting to go online

Omg that was luck! You had me finished up to that point haha. We totally need to battle / hang again soon man

 

[Sheldon]

I'm nowhere close to done with my playthrough and thus far away from starting on ranked, but I'm already forced to rethink plans because one of the pokemon I had intended to play a key role in my team's strategy might be OP and has already caught the attention of PokeTubers to boot, so it'd be less fun to use.

Also not excited to get back to EV training the old fashoned way.

 

[Zellia]

Haven't built a proper team yet so will probably mess around with rental teams. Some of the Dondozo + Tatsugiri gimmick ones look fun (give Tatsugiri something that'll eventually faint it, like Toxic Orb or Black Sludge, which allows you to switch in Costar Flamigo to copy the +2 boost), but I suspect that'll just be hard countered by something like Clear Smog Amoonguss.

 

[hologram]

Area Zero is also a good place to EV Train, because there's a lot of mons which give out 3 EVs. With a Power Item, that makes 11, and you get to 252 (actually 253) with 23 KOs instead of 28

 

[Deleted member 2]

I'm nowhere close to done with my playthrough and thus far away from starting on ranked, but I'm already forced to rethink plans because one of the pokemon I had intended to play a key role in my team's strategy might be OP and has already caught the attention of PokeTubers to boot, so it'd be less fun to use.

Also not excited to get back to EV training the old fashoned way.

What Pokémon? Was it Palafin lol

Haven't built a proper team yet so will probably mess around with rental teams. Some of the Dondozo + Tatsugiri gimmick ones look fun (give Tatsugiri something that'll eventually faint it, like Toxic Orb or Black Sludge, which allows you to switch in Costar Flamigo to copy the +2 boost), but I suspect that'll just be hard countered by something like Clear Smog Amoonguss.

 

[Sheldon]

What Pokémon? Was it Palafin lol

Yeah, right on the heart-shaped button. Thought I'd right the wrong of not finding a use for Flip Turn Barraskewda in Sword & Shield and try the new and improved version combined with some Tera-Coalossal or -Palossand shenanigans. But it seems Game Freak overdid it a little brute-forcing the gimmick. Maybe they were insulted no one used what is already a pretty damn great move by itself after Isle of Armor.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Alright, with the #1 player in the world (along with everybody else) running Dondozo + Tatsuragi + Flamigo, I think I'm ready to build a Prankster Haze Murkrow....

 

[Metroid]

Interesting, what's the strat behind that trio? I haven't looked too much into the metagame yet, I've just been planning my own team and hoping it works based on what I know now

 

[Zellia]

Interesting, what's the strat behind that trio? I haven't looked too much into the metagame yet, I've just been planning my own team and hoping it works based on what I know now

Tatsugiri's Commander ability means that if it is on the field with an allied Dondozo in doubles (the main in-game competitive format), it will jump in Dondozo's mouth, give Dondozo a +2 boost to all stats, and become untargetable by attacks. The downside of this is that neither Dondozo or Tatsugiri can switch out while combined like this, and Tatsugiri itself cannot attack either.

The specific strategy comes in giving Tatsugiri something like a Toxic Orb to badly poison it. Passive damage, such as Sandstorm or poison, still hurts Tatsugiri while its in Dondozo's mouth. If Tatsugiri faints, you can then bring it something to replace it while Dondozo keeps the boosts (if Dondozo faints, it will simply spit Tatsugiri back out).

So ideally you want Tatsugiri to faint while in Dondozo's mouth, because then you can send out Flamigo whose hidden ability, Costar, copies the ally's stat changes when sent out.

A gimmick strat I've seen involves using something like Electrode or Drifblim, who use Explosion while Tatsugiri uses Endure so it can't be KO'd. Then you send out Dondozo, Commander will activate and Tatsugiri will die quickly to poison so you can send Flamigo in.

And yes, this strat gets countered hard by anything that can purge stat changes, such as Prankster Haze Murkrow or Clear Smog Amoonguss.

 

[RochHoch]

I'm still slowly working my way through the main story while thinking about what Pokemon I wanna train up once I beat the game

Briefly, I had thought about putting Palafin and Gholdengo on my story team, but they're both such a pain to evolve (especially Gholdengo, geeeez) that I'm just not gonna bother with them until I've beaten the story and am ready to train them up from scratch

 

[Metroid]

I'm still slowly working my way through the main story while thinking about what Pokemon I wanna train up once I beat the game

Briefly, I had thought about putting Palafin and Gholdengo on my story team, but they're both such a pain to evolve (especially Gholdengo, geeeez) that I'm just not gonna bother with them until I've beaten the story and am ready to train them up from scratch

At the very least, they've made it very easy to fix any issues with Pokemon at any time (berries to remove EVs, bottle caps to fix IVs, mints to fix natures, etc).

I've been testing this team out and it's been doing really well for me but there are a few teams I don't know how to beat with this group.

Spoiler: VGC Doubles team

Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Population Bomb
• Aerial Ace
• Thunder Wave
• Protect

Thunder Wave may seem like a weird pick here, but because of how fast Maushold can be, this can shut down some problems pretty effectively. I may switch the Wide Lens to a King's Rock

Meowscarada @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Flower Trick
• Play Rough
• Knock Off
• Brick Break

A general toolbox. Since Protean only works once per switch, I figure choice is the way to go. May switch to a band.

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Earthquake
• Swords Dance
• Outrage
• Stone Edge

my beloved has never changed

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Light Screen
• Protect
• Calm Mind
• Hyper Voice

Special tank. Hyper Voice is so that I have an option after a taunt, plus it makes use of the high SpAtk after a few calm minds

Volcarona @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Bug Buzz
• Air Slash
• Heat Wave
• Quiver Dance

This one is the one I'm most iffy on. It doesn't work exactly how I want, although Tera typing to Flying has work defensively really well

Garganacl @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature

• Salt Cure
• Wide Guard
• Iron Defense
• Body Press

Physical wall, plus if they leave it alone too long, it becomes a serious problem. Flying again to avoid EQ and to get around Fighting.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I've significantly updated the OP with an explanation of EVs and included a guide on the best way to EV train in this game.

 

[Apopheniac]

I've significantly updated the OP with an explanation of EVs and included a guide on the best way to EV train in this game.

There's a number of guides with alternatives, this is what I've been referencing:

Where To EV Train in Pokémon Scarlet & Violet • Marriland.com

EV Training in Pokémon Scarlet & Violet is pretty easy thanks to the Power Items being very affordable and being able to see wild Pokémon in the overworld, so this EV Training Guide shows several recommended spots and Meal Powers for each stat to get your Pokémon fully EV Trained in Generation 9.

marriland.com

 

[Illucio]

I've significantly updated the OP with an explanation of EVs and included a guide on the best way to EV train in this game.

But how do I evolve Ev's into Eeevee's?

 

[Deleted member 2]

There's a number of guides with alternatives, this is what I've been referencing:

Where To EV Train in Pokémon Scarlet & Violet • Marriland.com

EV Training in Pokémon Scarlet & Violet is pretty easy thanks to the Power Items being very affordable and being able to see wild Pokémon in the overworld, so this EV Training Guide shows several recommended spots and Meal Powers for each stat to get your Pokémon fully EV Trained in Generation 9.

marriland.com

Nice, yeah I've been using some guides as well and Marrilland is a classic.

I'm trying to put everything in one place and include more helpful things that may not be easily found elsewhere; any ideas?

 

[Weebos]

Don't forget vitamins and feathers as the "easy" way out.

They're also better if you want a specific spread that isn't divisible by 8. (The two stats necessary bit isn't really true, but in the early metagame 252/252 spreads are fine).

The pain is that money is much harder to come by in this game compared to SwSh with Gmax Meowth.

 

[Sheldon]

The pain is that money is much harder to come by in this game compared to SwSh with Gmax Meowth.

This reminds me to ask, since I haven't progressed far enough into the game to judge for myself: What is the more valuable ressource, as in what is harder to come by? League Points or money? Until now I've been paying with money whenever there's a choice between both currencies and just hoarding LP for building a competitive team eventually, but maybe I've got the relative rarities wrong.

 

[Weebos]

This reminds me to ask, since I haven't progressed far enough into the game to judge for myself: What is the more valuable ressource, as in what is harder to come by? League Points or money? Until now I've been paying with money whenever there's a choice between both currencies and just hoarding LP for building a competitive team eventually, but maybe I've got the relative rarities wrong.

League points are pretty easy to get, I spend them when I have an excess, but I usually keep like 100K just in case for TMs. You get a lot of TMs out in the world as well which helps.

The most expensive TMs only require like 15K LP, so you don't need a huge stockpile of it, and if you're doing Raids for other resources you'll be getting LP pretty quickly.

If you're not planning on grinding a bunch of raids I'd conserve your LP a bit more, but just touching the raid den gives you LP, similar to SwSh with Watts. You also get LP from actually playing Ranked, I think you get some every battle but I haven't played much yet.

I've definitely found money to be the larger resource concern, especially because you use it for everything now, vitamins, bottle caps, and every hold item.

If you grind the postgame tournament you can make a little over $100K per run (with Amulet Coin), which will get you 5 bottle caps easily. But $100k is how much GMax Meowth made per battle lol, so it's much slower.

 

[Apopheniac]

I'm trying to put everything in one place and include more helpful things that may not be easily found elsewhere; any ideas?

Uhhh maybe a sandwiches guide? IVs are simple enough without Hidden Power and with Hyper Training and there's too many different metas for teambuilding guides, unless you want to do a guide for building raids because of how useful those are for getting other stuff

This reminds me to ask, since I haven't progressed far enough into the game to judge for myself: What is the more valuable ressource, as in what is harder to come by? League Points or money? Until now I've been paying with money whenever there's a choice between both currencies and just hoarding LP for building a competitive team eventually, but maybe I've got the relative rarities wrong.

Cash is more plentiful since you can sell raid drops and farm postgame opponents with Amulet Coin, though the only difference in terms of buying is that TMs need LP and auctions need cash. I have no idea why these are separate currencies

 

[Sheldon]

League points are pretty easy to get, I spend them when I have an excess, but I usually keep like 100K just in case for TMs. You get a lot of TMs out in the world as well which helps.

The most expensive TMs only require like 15K LP, so you don't need a huge stockpile of it, and if you're doing Raids for other resources you'll be getting LP pretty quickly.

If you're not planning on grinding a bunch of raids I'd conserve your LP a bit more, but just touching the raid den gives you LP, similar to SwSh with Watts. You also get LP from actually playing Ranked, I think you get some every battle but I haven't played much yet.

I've definitely found money to be the larger resource concern, especially because you use it for everything now, vitamins, bottle caps, and every hold item.

If you grind the postgame tournament you can make a little over $100K per run (with Amulet Coin), which will get you 5 bottle caps easily. But $100k is how much GMax Meowth made per battle lol, so it's much slower.

Cash is more plentiful since you can sell raid drops and farm postgame opponents with Amulet Coin, though the only difference in terms of buying is that TMs need LP and auctions need cash. I have no idea why these are separate currencies

Thanks for the info about how to earn and spend those currencies. Sounds like I'm overvaluing LP a fair bit and will be less stingy with them in the future since they come from activities I can see myself doing regularly, while re-running the postgame tournament for cash is traditionally one of my least liked chores in Pokemon games.

Plus I'm gonna need money for all the boots and hats I wanna buy.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Uhhh maybe a sandwiches guide?

I've added a table to the OP that provides the least amount of ingredients needed for a Lv. 3 Sparkling Power for each type.

 

[Weebos]

While I figure out what I want my team to be, I've been trying out the team Aaron Zheng featured in this video:




I really like it so far, Corviknight feels fantastic with this build. Might end up using a similar core, but swap out the parts that aren't exciting me (Gengar and Rotom).

Gengar has come in clutch with Focus Sash Haze though.

 

[Deleted member 2]

This is my new favorite Pokemon lol

Here's the replay if anybody wants to watch

[Gen 9] Doubles OU replay: Sushigobrrrr vs. bellydrumb - Pokémon Showdown

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between Sushigobrrrr and bellydrumb ([Gen 9] Doubles OU)

replay.pokemonshowdown.com

Edit: here's another one

[Gen 9] Doubles OU replay: Suthopls vs. bellydrumb - Pokémon Showdown

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between Suthopls and bellydrumb ([Gen 9] Doubles OU)

replay.pokemonshowdown.com

 

[Weebos]

Looks like it's official that VGC tournaments will have an open team list:


I think it's for the best, otherwise competitors would end up having people scout out their opponents' teams, which leads to all sorts of messy behavior.

 

[Sheldon]

Looks like it's official that VGC tournaments will have an open team list:


I think it's for the best, otherwise competitors would end up having people scout out their opponents' teams, which leads to all sorts of messy behavior.

Trainers including secret techs and trying to hide it for as long as possible so they can pull it out during a crucial round later on has been a fun part of tournaments, but open lists have their own charm and might actually be the healthiest format in a Tera world.

 

[Weebos]

Trainers including secret techs and trying to hide it for as long as possible so they can pull it out during a crucial round later on has been a fun part of tournaments, but open lists have their own charm and might actually be the healthiest format in a Tera world.

Yeah I think for Tera specifically it makes the most sense, otherwise folks that have the most friends or "staff" are going to have a bigger advantage.

 

[Weebos]

Had a poor guy forget my Corviknight had Rocky Helmet and click Population Bomb on it lol.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Had a poor guy forget my Corviknight had Rocky Helmet and click Population Bomb on it lol.

Nooo lol

 

[Zellia]

Ok, let's make a start on actually building my own team. I've been fascinated by the Psychic Surge Indeedee-F + Expanding Force Armarouge combo, so that'll be my starting point.

 

[Weebos]

Nooo lol

It was rough, the poor Maushold had a Sitrus berry too so it took a break in the middle of knocking itself out lol.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Been trying my darndest to make contrary lurantis work by skill swapping magic bounce to an opponent and spamming sweet scent (which doubles lurantis' evasion every time it connects)

Works maybe 1/5 of the time, but every time I pull it off the person I'm facing either quits or expresses delight

 

[Metroid]

Works maybe 1/5 of the time, but every time I pull it off the person I'm facing either quits or expresses delight

I've had Tera type Flying Volcarona cause the same reactions. I think tera typing defensively is the way to go which is a nice contrast to Megas and Dynamax being almost always offensive.

 

[Apopheniac]

Wrote up a bunch of stuff on the upcoming Cinderace raid in the other thread but figured it's probably better to have it here. If it'd be helpful I could write up some sample sets in Pokepastes or something, but this should be fairly intuitive.

Spoiler: Cinderace theorymon

My guess for the set:

Moves
High Jump Kick
Pyro Ball
Gunk Shot/Iron Head
Sucker Punch/U-turn
Additional Moves
Bulk Up/Swords Dance
Tera Blast
Sunny Day
Super Fang

Now that we know how Charizard turned out, we should have a rough sense of what to expect with Cinderace. Unlike with Charizard, we know Cinderace is gonna be physical because its SpA is so much worse than its Atk; Shadow Ball and Electro Ball are not moves someone ought to worry about. Cinderace is monotype before going Tera, so it's only got one STAB move and one Tera-type move, and those two are its strongest options. Charizard filled out Fire/Flying/Dragon with Focus Blast, since it didn't have much else for special options (it picking a physical coverage move was a real concern, mind you), while Cinderace gets two slots to work with for coverage. I figure one slot will be used for Fairies and the other will be used for Psychics, so Acrobatics or Zen Headbutt wouldn't do much for it. Cinderace doesn't have anything for Flying-types, so it'll have to rely on Pyro Ball.

Overheat into stat drop removal probably isn't happening here so it's tough to say what it might pull out (I'm a little surprised it can't learn Close Combat). Boosting moves are always strong on raid mons, and we were fortunate that Charizard didn't have any, though there it'll probably only go for one boost, and there is counterplay. Tera Blast and Sunny Day were fine on Charizard and there's no reason for those to not return here. Super Fang is an off-beat tech that doesn't fit the regular moveset but can suck to get hit by. Other potential options here would be Snarl (for lowering the squad's SpA, not for damage), Taunt, or Will-o-Wisp, though I'm not sure how useful those would end up being. Cinderace doesn't really have strong alternative STAB options like Charizard had and something like Low Kick or Reversal doesn't make much sense in this context.

I'm assuming that they're going to give it a highly tuned and aggressive set, but it's possible that we see something more tame with less powerful moves or worse coverage. It's tough to say how indicative Charizard was in this respect, given the power of STAB Hurricane on neutral hits, but it's better to over-prepare than to under-prepare.

Spoiler: Draft picks for rabbit season

Azumarill: I'd expect to see a bunch of people pull out their old lizard-slaying bunnies to fight the newcomer veteran bunny with the same strategy as before. Gunk Shot could be scary if it comes up, but since Cinderace is physical, Azumarill's access to Charm and Tickle give it some extra support utility this time.

Skeledirge: Bulky and resists Pyro Ball, though Sucker Punch might hurt. The strategy with this thing is to click Torch Song repeatedly. Slack Off, Will-O-Wisp, Mud-Slap, and Helping Hand can round out the set, but you can also just slap on a Metronome or a Choice Specs and go to town.

Slowtwins: Can Belly Drum themselves, but it's way funnier if you use Psych Up on an ally that already used it. Atk isn't great but makes up for it with bulk and support options. For those lacking internal dawgs, special attacking sets can boost up with Nasty Plot. Slowking's Def is a little worse but it's the best Reflect user because Slowbro can't learn it in SV.

Annihilape: The play here is to spam Screech for the benefit of physical attacking allies, then start throwing out Rage Fists. Needs physical bulk investment to take the edge off Pyro Balls, but at least this time it's not weak to one of the STAB moves. There aren't many bulky Screechers that aren't weak to Fighting, so this is as good as it gets unless you want Koraidon to give Cinderace free sunlight.

Charcadet evolutions: Armarouge can throw up Psychic Terrain and gamer combo into Expanding Force. Ceruledge has Swords Dance to set up and throws out Bitter Blades. Both get Reflect, which is definitely an important support move, and Clear Smog, which could be used to counter Swords Dance or Bulk Up but might interfere with other strategies.

Dondozo: Doesn't resist Fighting but is too fat to care. Spam Tickle to assist other physical attackers and blunt the damage output, and eventually you can start hitting it with Zen Headbutt. Note that Unaware is bad in conjunction with Tickle and you want Oblivious or Water Veil. If Cinderace goes for Sunny Day, you can counter with Rain Dance and switch to a Water STAB.

Dachsbun: Yeah I know but it's actually better than last time, its physical Def is better than its SpD. Won't do much damage but can run a decent support set with its pick of Charm, Mud-Slap, Helping Hand, Howl, and Play Rough.

Goodra: Unless you want to run Eviolite Shellder this is the best Life Dew user. Has Charm as well Acid Spray, the latter of which can be helpful if allies bring special attackers. Won't do a ton of damage but should be a decent supporter. Acid Armor+Body Press is also an option, though it may be undone fairly quickly.

Charizard: Resists both Fire and Flying and can't be burned, but the lack of bulk means even neutral coverage moves will do a chunk. I'm thinking Sitrus Berry/Belly Drum into Acrobatics spam is the play here, since Zard can't boost its SpA outside of Solar Power. Swords Dance is also an option if you need juice but don't want to risk Belly Drum, and Smokescreen can sometimes cheese if it needs to.

Iron Hands: The classic raid drummer, should be able to eat a hit and get off a Belly Drum. Doesn't have resistances to Fire or Fighting so it's gonna have to lean on its physical bulk to pull through.

Grumpig: Has Thick Fat to resist Pyro Ball, though it might still get rolled by coverage moves. Gets Reflect, Mud-Slap, and Psychic Terrain for support, Nasty Plot to boost itself up. Kinda bad but maybe it works?

Spoiler: General strategies

Accuracy-lowering moves: Mud-slap, Sand Attack, Smokescreen. We don't know if/when Cinderace will clear its debuffs but laying these down early is usually a good idea

Attack-lowering moves: Charm is the best option here but there's also stuff like Tickle. If/when Cinderace clears debuffs you have to set this up again, but it can still be worthwhile

Will-o-Wisp: Burning is good for the Atk drop, the dot doesn't matter

Reflect: 5/8 turns of halved Atk is pretty good against physical attackers, worth slotting onto something that gets it if your allies don't have it. Unlike the above moves Cinderace can't clear this unless it has Court Change for some reason

Helping Hand: One of those moves that you should run on anything with an empty slot that can get it. If you're not set up and your ally is, it's more effective to just boost them further

Psychic Terrain: Assuming Cinderace runs Sucker Punch, this can shut that down completely and boost the damage output of bulky Psychics

Rain Dance: Can be used to counter Sunny Day when that comes up but otherwise I wouldn't bother. Snowscape also does the same thing for these purposes

 

[RochHoch]

Got myself a shiny Impidimp, should be a fun screens user for raids once I get him trained up. Slightly unsure what EVs to go with, I was thinking HP and attack

He won't be any good for Cinderace tho, assuming it has Iron Head or Gunk Shot. Might train up an Iron Hands or something depending on what the rabbit has.

 

[Weebos]

Got myself a shiny Impidimp, should be a fun screens user for raids once I get him trained up. Slightly unsure what EVs to go with, I was thinking HP and attack

He won't be any good for Cinderace tho, assuming it has Iron Head or Gunk Shot. Might train up an Iron Hands or something depending on what the rabbit has.

If you're just using it in raids you can probably ignore its attack stat and focus on bulk, as Grimmsnarl is better as a support for raids since it doesn't really setup.

 

[Symtendo]

Wrote up a bunch of stuff on the upcoming Cinderace raid in the other thread but figured it's probably better to have it here. If it'd be helpful I could write up some sample sets in Pokepastes or something, but this should be fairly intuitive.

Spoiler: Cinderace theorymon

My guess for the set:

Moves
High Jump Kick
Pyro Ball
Gunk Shot/Iron Head
Sucker Punch/U-turn
Additional Moves
Bulk Up/Swords Dance
Tera Blast
Sunny Day
Super Fang

Now that we know how Charizard turned out, we should have a rough sense of what to expect with Cinderace. Unlike with Charizard, we know Cinderace is gonna be physical because its SpA is so much worse than its Atk; Shadow Ball and Electro Ball are not moves someone ought to worry about. Cinderace is monotype before going Tera, so it's only got one STAB move and one Tera-type move, and those two are its strongest options. Charizard filled out Fire/Flying/Dragon with Focus Blast, since it didn't have much else for special options (it picking a physical coverage move was a real concern, mind you), while Cinderace gets two slots to work with for coverage. I figure one slot will be used for Fairies and the other will be used for Psychics, so Acrobatics or Zen Headbutt wouldn't do much for it. Cinderace doesn't have anything for Flying-types, so it'll have to rely on Pyro Ball.

Overheat into stat drop removal probably isn't happening here so it's tough to say what it might pull out (I'm a little surprised it can't learn Close Combat). Boosting moves are always strong on raid mons, and we were fortunate that Charizard didn't have any, though there it'll probably only go for one boost, and there is counterplay. Tera Blast and Sunny Day were fine on Charizard and there's no reason for those to not return here. Super Fang is an off-beat tech that doesn't fit the regular moveset but can suck to get hit by. Other potential options here would be Snarl (for lowering the squad's SpA, not for damage), Taunt, or Will-o-Wisp, though I'm not sure how useful those would end up being. Cinderace doesn't really have strong alternative STAB options like Charizard had and something like Low Kick or Reversal doesn't make much sense in this context.

I'm assuming that they're going to give it a highly tuned and aggressive set, but it's possible that we see something more tame with less powerful moves or worse coverage. It's tough to say how indicative Charizard was in this respect, given the power of STAB Hurricane on neutral hits, but it's better to over-prepare than to under-prepare.

Spoiler: Draft picks for rabbit season

Azumarill: I'd expect to see a bunch of people pull out their old lizard-slaying bunnies to fight the newcomer veteran bunny with the same strategy as before. Gunk Shot could be scary if it comes up, but since Cinderace is physical, Azumarill's access to Charm and Tickle give it some extra support utility this time.

Skeledirge: Bulky and resists Pyro Ball, though Sucker Punch might hurt. The strategy with this thing is to click Torch Song repeatedly. Slack Off, Will-O-Wisp, Mud-Slap, and Helping Hand can round out the set, but you can also just slap on a Metronome or a Choice Specs and go to town.

Slowtwins: Can Belly Drum themselves, but it's way funnier if you use Psych Up on an ally that already used it. Atk isn't great but makes up for it with bulk and support options. For those lacking internal dawgs, special attacking sets can boost up with Nasty Plot. Slowking's Def is a little worse but it's the best Reflect user because Slowbro can't learn it in SV.

Annihilape: The play here is to spam Screech for the benefit of physical attacking allies, then start throwing out Rage Fists. Needs physical bulk investment to take the edge off Pyro Balls, but at least this time it's not weak to one of the STAB moves. There aren't many bulky Screechers that aren't weak to Fighting, so this is as good as it gets unless you want Koraidon to give Cinderace free sunlight.

Charcadet evolutions: Armarouge can throw up Psychic Terrain and gamer combo into Expanding Force. Ceruledge has Swords Dance to set up and throws out Bitter Blades. Both get Reflect, which is definitely an important support move, and Clear Smog, which could be used to counter Swords Dance or Bulk Up but might interfere with other strategies.

Dondozo: Doesn't resist Fighting but is too fat to care. Spam Tickle to assist other physical attackers and blunt the damage output, and eventually you can start hitting it with Zen Headbutt. Note that Unaware is bad in conjunction with Tickle and you want Oblivious or Water Veil. If Cinderace goes for Sunny Day, you can counter with Rain Dance and switch to a Water STAB.

Dachsbun: Yeah I know but it's actually better than last time, its physical Def is better than its SpD. Won't do much damage but can run a decent support set with its pick of Charm, Mud-Slap, Helping Hand, Howl, and Play Rough.

Goodra: Unless you want to run Eviolite Shellder this is the best Life Dew user. Has Charm as well Acid Spray, the latter of which can be helpful if allies bring special attackers. Won't do a ton of damage but should be a decent supporter. Acid Armor+Body Press is also an option, though it may be undone fairly quickly.

Charizard: Resists both Fire and Flying and can't be burned, but the lack of bulk means even neutral coverage moves will do a chunk. I'm thinking Sitrus Berry/Belly Drum into Acrobatics spam is the play here, since Zard can't boost its SpA outside of Solar Power. Swords Dance is also an option if you need juice but don't want to risk Belly Drum, and Smokescreen can sometimes cheese if it needs to.

Iron Hands: The classic raid drummer, should be able to eat a hit and get off a Belly Drum. Doesn't have resistances to Fire or Fighting so it's gonna have to lean on its physical bulk to pull through.

Grumpig: Has Thick Fat to resist Pyro Ball, though it might still get rolled by coverage moves. Gets Reflect, Mud-Slap, and Psychic Terrain for support, Nasty Plot to boost itself up. Kinda bad but maybe it works?

Spoiler: General strategies

Accuracy-lowering moves: Mud-slap, Sand Attack, Smokescreen. We don't know if/when Cinderace will clear its debuffs but laying these down early is usually a good idea

Attack-lowering moves: Charm is the best option here but there's also stuff like Tickle. If/when Cinderace clears debuffs you have to set this up again, but it can still be worthwhile

Will-o-Wisp: Burning is good for the Atk drop, the dot doesn't matter

Reflect: 5/8 turns of halved Atk is pretty good against physical attackers, worth slotting onto something that gets it if your allies don't have it. Unlike the above moves Cinderace can't clear this unless it has Court Change for some reason

Helping Hand: One of those moves that you should run on anything with an empty slot that can get it. If you're not set up and your ally is, it's more effective to just boost them further

Psychic Terrain: Assuming Cinderace runs Sucker Punch, this can shut that down completely and boost the damage output of bulky Psychics

Rain Dance: Can be used to counter Sunny Day when that comes up but otherwise I wouldn't bother. Snowscape also does the same thing for these purposes

Thanks for this, do you have any recommendations for moves sets and natures etc for the Pokémon for the raids? Someone put together a Azumarli one that was very useful

 

[Deleted member 2]

Thanks for this, do you have any recommendations for moves sets and natures etc for the Pokémon for the raids? Someone put together a Azumarli one that was very useful

Iron Hands holding that Drive item
Max Attack EVs

• Belly Drum
• Charge
• Thunder Punch (STAB)
• Drain Punch to get that HP back (also STAB)

 

[Symtendo]

Iron Hands holding that Drive item
Max Attack EVs

• Belly Drum
• Charge
• Thunder Punch (STAB)
• Drain Punch to get that HP back (also STAB)

Thanks!

So 252 in both attack and special attack? Is there a better nature for it to have?

Sorry for all the questions, but prior to the Charizard raid I’d never even looked into what EVs are

 

[Apopheniac]

Thanks!

So 252 in both attack and special attack? Is there a better nature for it to have?

Sorry for all the questions, but prior to the Charizard raid I’d never even looked into what EVs are

For raids you want to invest in HP because you need to take hits. You don't put EVs into the attacking stat you're not using, so an Iron Hands has no need for Sp. Atk. Physical attackers usually want to run an Adamant nature because that increases their Atk (the stat you use) and decreases their Sp. Atk (the stat you don't care about), but you if you want to increase its ability to take hits, you could run Impish (increase Def, decreases Sp. Atk) or Careful (increases Sp. Def, decreases Sp. Atk). Special attackers run the opposite. Modest increases Sp. Atk and decreases Atk, Bold increases Def and decreases Atk, Calm increases Sp. Def and decreases Atk. Most Pokémon don't use mixed sets because hitting both physically and specially often isn't worth the trade-offs to either bulk or speed you'd have to make

Since Cinderace is a physical attacker, you don't need Sp. Def, and since it's a raid, there's no real reason to invest in Speed, so the stats worth caring about are HP, Def, and either physical or special attack, based on what the Pokémon uses. HP/Atk or HP/SpA is a good compromise, especially if you want to use the Pokémon later for other stuff. Support-oriented Pokémon that don't do much direct damage can go with HP/Def, which maximizes their ability to take hits, and can take an Impish or Bold nature to further bolster their Defense. If you want to screw around with damage calcs you could figure out some combo of HP and Def that lets you tank specific hits as 3HKOs or whatever so you can put the rest into offense but that's not really necessary

 

[Deleted member 2]

What Apo said

 

[Apopheniac]

Thanks for this, do you have any recommendations for moves sets and natures etc for the Pokémon for the raids? Someone put together a Azumarli one that was very useful

Cinderace raid builds

I just kinda threw this together, feel free to mess around with it if items, support moves etc don't look right. For the most part you don't have to worry about getting the right Tera type or ability, this is just to get the gist of what sets could look like

 

[Symtendo]

Thank you guys! Much appreciated.

How do you tell if a Pokémon is a physical or special attacker?