Discussion NVIDIA employee confirms existence of rumoured Switch 2 SoC

Gianko

Cappy
The philosophy of the company is not hitech just for been the number one in power. Is having fun, smiling amazing people. Mind it.
 
I wouldn’t say Nintendo is in lockstep with industry considering where the industry is & headed. Plus lots of things Nintendo still doesn’t or wants to do. The only thing that’s changed is they have a vendor who can supply them with what they want who also happens to be pushing certain technologies & hardware.

This weird revisionist history both of Iwata & the current management is head scratching. The only thing we can say is that Furukawa is doing exactly as he told everyone. Staying outta the way & being a numbers man.
 

AxkilAvenger

Rattata
Pronouns
He/him
I wouldn’t say Nintendo is in lockstep with industry considering where the industry is & headed. Plus lots of things Nintendo still doesn’t or wants to do. The only thing that’s changed is they have a vendor who can supply them with what they want who also happens to be pushing certain technologies & hardware.

This weird revisionist history both of Iwata & the current management is head scratching. The only thing we can say is that Furukawa is doing exactly as he told everyone. Staying outta the way & being a numbers man.
Lockstep was probably the wrong word to use. And believe me. I loved the time of Iwata. I love and miss crazy ass Nintendo. I just feel like Nintendo in the time of switch has moved on from those days
 

Angel Whispers

@angelwhispers_
It makes me wonder also about the graphic power compared to other handhelds in the market, for example it seems the aya neo pro, the odin, and the steam deack runs graphic intense games at reasonable settings.

None of those portables have a docked mode or a neural unit/DLSS. The next Switch SoC will. Its CPU alone would smoke rings around the ones in the XB1, PS4, and their respective Pro/X models. Its GPU has 20% more cores than the one in the XSS (that's 1536 CUDA Cores VS 1280 (20CUs)), and thanks to DLSS, it will have room for manoeuvre in terms of performance, as it won't be taxed as heavily to get the results it does. Nvidia's RT is also better than AMD's RT, so, there's that. It would need to be clocked at 550MHz in portable mode to eclipse Steam Deck's 1.6TFs, but even at a lower frequency, its end performance would be better as a result of DLSS and its hardware-specific feature sets.
I keep seeing this. They were weird under Iwata imo. God bless him. Under new management they are pretty normal now. I think the new heads are more in tune with what the market wants. And the market wants bc
Don't do Iwata dirty like that. He led them to unprecedented success with the Wii and DS, then put the wheels in motion for what exists today. Without that foundation, we might not even have a Switch right now. Also, when they had to endure a storm, he led from the top and halved his salary, then ensured nobody lost their job in that process. That isn't "weirdness", that's a level of humanity you didn't see in this industry among suits - You'd never see that at an EA or an Activision, for example. Furthermore, they adopted more "blue ocean" strategies - That approach means pursuit of risks in the hope of rewards. It isn't to be conflated with "being out of step". There's merit in bringing new innovations to the table, things "the market" didn't know it wanted, and equally important in that approach is "Room to fail". Wii U failed. 3DS was only a failure relative to the DS, but in any other world, it would be considered a success. Wii and DS were undisputed successes.
 

AxkilAvenger

Rattata
Pronouns
He/him
None of those portables have a docked mode or a neural unit/DLSS. The next Switch SoC will. Its CPU alone would smoke rings around the ones in the XB1, PS4, and their respective Pro/X models. Its GPU has 20% more cores than the one in the XSS (that's 1536 CUDA Cores VS 1280 (20CUs)), and thanks to DLSS, it will have room for manoeuvre in terms of performance, as it won't be taxed as heavily to get the results it does. Nvidia's RT is also better than AMD's RT, so, there's that. It would need to be clocked at 550MHz in portable mode to eclipse Steam Deck's 1.6TFs, but even at a lower frequency, its end performance would be better as a result of DLSS and its hardware-specific feature sets.

Don't do Iwata dirty like that. He led them to unprecedented success with the Wii and DS, then put the wheels in motion for what exists today. Without that foundation, we might not even have a Switch right now. Also, when they had to endure a storm, he led from the top and halved his salary, then ensured nobody lost their job in that process. That isn't "weirdness", that's a level of humanity you didn't see in this industry among suits - You'd never see that at an EA or an Activision, for example. Furthermore, they adopted more "blue ocean" strategies - That approach means pursuit of risks in the hope of rewards. It isn't to be conflated with "being out of step". There's merit in bringing new innovations to the table, things "the market" didn't know it wanted, and equally important in that approach is "Room to fail". Wii U failed. 3DS was only a failure relative to the DS, but in any other world, it would be considered a success. Wii and DS were undisputed
None of those portables have a docked mode or a neural unit/DLSS. The next Switch SoC will. Its CPU alone would smoke rings around the ones in the XB1, PS4, and their respective Pro/X models. Its GPU has 20% more cores than the one in the XSS (that's 1536 CUDA Cores VS 1280 (20CUs)), and thanks to DLSS, it will have room for manoeuvre in terms of performance, as it won't be taxed as heavily to get the results it does. Nvidia's RT is also better than AMD's RT, so, there's that. It would need to be clocked at 550MHz in portable mode to eclipse Steam Deck's 1.6TFs, but even at a lower frequency, its end performance would be better as a result of DLSS and its hardware-specific feature sets.

Don't do Iwata dirty like that. He led them to unprecedented success with the Wii and DS, then put the wheels in motion for what exists today. Without that foundation, we might not even have a Switch right now. Also, when they had to endure a storm, he led from the top and halved his salary, then ensured nobody lost their job in that process. That isn't "weirdness", that's a level of humanity you didn't see in this industry among suits - You'd never see that at an EA or an Activision, for example. Furthermore, they adopted more "blue ocean" strategies - That approach means pursuit of risks in the hope of rewards. It isn't to be conflated with "being out of step". There's merit in bringing new innovations to the table, things "the market" didn't know it wanted, and equally important in that approach is "Room to fail". Wii U failed. 3DS was only a failure relative to the DS, but in any other world, it would be considered a success. Wii and DS were undisputed successes.
Who’s doing Iwata dirty. I criticized his leader ship , not in any way negative. I think he’s the best Nintendo ever had. All I’m saying is he ran Nintendo a lot different than the people who came after him. I know what he did for Wii and DS. I was there lol
 

ILikeFeet

Pikmin
Who’s doing Iwata dirty. I criticized his leader ship , not in any way negative. I think he’s the best Nintendo ever had. All I’m saying is he ran Nintendo a lot different than the people who came after him. I know what he did for Wii and DS. I was there lol
it's way to soon to say how Furukawa is running Nintendo right now since they're still running on the fumes from Iwata. Drake will be the first hardware made post Iwata, so that's the best time to judge, I think
 

Joseki

Koopa
Had been thinking about release pacing for Nintendo home consoles (handhelds were much less on a rhythm):

NES-SNES: 7 years
SNES-N64: 6 years
N64-GCN: 5 years
GCN-Wii: 5 years
Wii-Wii U: 6 years
Wii U-NSW: 5 years
NSW-NSW (2023): 6 years. 😏

Re: Switch 2: I've been very happy with Splatoon 3's graphical performance, but it's one of the few recent Switch games that look and run like they should. Switch's main drawbacks are framerate and resolution to me, both of which Switch 2 will likely solve and then some. (Until they start porting UE5 stuff over and we'll be back in Blurry Town =P .)

NDS to 3DS: 6 years and 2 months
3DS to NSW: 6 years and 1 month

Curiously, Zelda TotK releases 6 years and 2 months after the release of the NSW...


hmm-hmmm.gif
 

AR15mex

Tektite
None of those portables have a docked mode or a neural unit/DLSS. The next Switch SoC will. Its CPU alone would smoke rings around the ones in the XB1, PS4, and their respective Pro/X models. Its GPU has 20% more cores than the one in the XSS (that's 1536 CUDA Cores VS 1280 (20CUs)), and thanks to DLSS, it will have room for manoeuvre in terms of performance, as it won't be taxed as heavily to get the results it does. Nvidia's RT is also better than AMD's RT, so, there's that. It would need to be clocked at 550MHz in portable mode to eclipse Steam Deck's 1.6TFs, but even at a lower frequency, its end performance would be better as a result of DLSS and its hardware-specific feature sets.
This definitely gets me excited, but is Nintendo so I won't get my hopes up...
 

AxkilAvenger

Rattata
Pronouns
He/him
it's way to soon to say how Furukawa is running Nintendo right now since they're still running on the fumes from Iwata. Drake will be the first hardware made post Iwata, so that's the best time to judge, I think
Here’s a thought/question. Switch has over 4300 games dwarfing any other Nintendo consoles. Do you think Iwata’s roadmap accounted for this. Or did new management push to make this happen
 
Lockstep was probably the wrong word to use. And believe me. I loved the time of Iwata. I love and miss crazy ass Nintendo. I just feel like Nintendo in the time of switch has moved on from those days
They really haven’t moved on from those days though. We can see it in many areas.

Edit to the above, considering Iwata was talking about interconnected hardware such as Apple & remarks over the years about Nintendo’s transitions. In addition to examples from Wii & 3DS; I would say yea, Iwata probably accounted for Any sort of BC to happen.
 

Serif

Territorial Rotbart
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He/Him
This definitely gets me excited, but is Nintendo so I won't get my hopes up...
In 2017 Nintendo released a portable device many times more powerful than its last portable, more capable than its previous home console, more powerful and with 6x the ram of the PS3/360, and architectural advancements which enabled PS360 ports with better performance and IQ, and numerous downports from the PS4/XBO. Nintendo already released a Switch with a more capable chip (Mariko), but focused all its gains towards battery life.

It's been 10 years since the PS4, a similar time gap between the PS360 and Switch. Advancements in tech aren't quite so linear, there are limits to how mobile devices can perform - but in this instance, I don't think expecting a Switch 2 to outperform the PS4/XBO is wishful thinking. The PS4 and XBO had sub-par CPUs. Mobile tech has advanced quite a bit. And the current Switch already receives a share of PS4/XBO ports, some with more compromise than others.

The Nvidia NVN2 leak already confirms 12 SMs and DLSS. The latest Nvidia commit message on T239 confirms 8 cores in a single cluster. We are assuming T239 is the NVN2 chip because of kopite, an well-known Nvidia leaker, and because it lines up with the timeline for Nvidia Orin which is T234, so it makes sense Nintendo would be using a variant of that.

"It's Nintendo" can only get one so far. We know that they will want good power consumption in a tablet form factor that isn't super expensive. But that's not mutually exclusive with a capable device. This device will inevitably be weaker on paper than the desktop class chips in the Series S/X, and PS5. But that was never a fair comparison in the first place. What matters is that Nintendo are in a good position, with their single platform and working with Nvidia again to develop a custom chip, to create a more powerful version of their successful device brand. One that can comfortably last another 6+ years.

My expectations aren't super inflated or anything - at the very minimum, I expect a number of PS4/XBO ports with better IQ, like how the current Switch receives PS360 ports with better IQ. PS5/XBSX ports will still have compromises. But first-party games will have more headroom, and DLSS built into the device can enable cool tricks. I'm already "fine" with the performance of many Switch games. This feels like it'll be "more than fine".
 

ILikeFeet

Pikmin
Here’s a thought/question. Switch has over 4300 games dwarfing any other Nintendo consoles. Do you think Iwata’s roadmap accounted for this. Or did new management push to make this happen
a lot of that was due to the success of the switch and the groundwork laid under Iwata's tenure. the push for UE4 and Unity day one compatibility were under him as well as the move to Nvidia to create a development environment that wasn't shit and compliant with modern practices.

one doesn't plan to have x number of games, but you do make the moves to allow for it to happen. and those moves were what led to the Switch
 

AxkilAvenger

Rattata
Pronouns
He/him
a lot of that was due to the success of the switch and the groundwork laid under Iwata's tenure. the push for UE4 and Unity day one compatibility were under him as well as the move to Nvidia to create a development environment that wasn't shit and compliant with modern practices.

one doesn't plan to have x number of games, but you do make the moves to allow for it to happen. and those moves were what led to the Switch
This makes much sense and I did not think of his role in getting Unreal and Unity on the console. Thanks for the answer
 

Angel Whispers

@angelwhispers_
This definitely gets me excited, but is Nintendo so I won't get my hopes up...
I will say that in the other thread, I have explicitly encouraged people to dare to expect, and in the event of disappointment, to dare to expect again. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen!! At worst, a few trolls might laugh, but it shouldn't stop you playing the hell out of the next LOZ, or Bayonetta 4, or Super Mario, or whatever Monolithsoft and Intelligent Systems are cooking. We still play games to have fun, not "visual fidelity", cinema or specs to impress people who were never on board in the first place. Ultimately, we are all adults on here, so, the onus should be on the individual to be in control of their emotions rather than Woo-hah and demand to "keep your expectations in check" - I don't say this as a slight on you, and I don't think there's anything wrong with being cautious in principle, but much of what we're discussing with the hardware is from the horse's mouth (Nintendo or Nvidia), or heavily corroborated among multiple respected sources. The rest is open to interpretation, reasonable deductions, speculation, and personal expectation. I brought those points into this thread to put across the idea that the SoC in question (T239) isn't "underpowered", but a potentially disruptive one in the tech arena. I could list more...

However, we have seen in this thread that some users have reported unfounded negativity elsewhere, and it's lamentable because when compelled to think about why said people think that, you will struggle to find a coherent reasoning which DOESN'T amount to much more than "L-M-A-O, Nin-ten-D'Oh!!"/"Because Nintendo "Logic"". Contrary to popular Internet narrative, Nintendo aren't, and never have been averse to the idea of higher performance. They didn't align themselves with the leading graphics processing company in the world to make backward-thinking, unambitious hardware - It's a partnership. We're going to have RT and DLSS on this thing because Nvidia have been saying for years that they expect RT to become standardised among developers. They spoke of leadership in this area, too, and won't want to let AMD steal a further march on them with PS/XBox, or in the mobile market, where AMD/Samsung beat them to retail with the Xclipse in the S22 Series of phones.

So, Why, then, would anyone expect them to proceed to build something for one of their biggest partners in Nintendo, a company they courted for ages, and NOT put the things they expect to be standardised in their SoC, missing out on the prospect of putting their tech into potentially 120m+ pairs of hands? See, the trouble with Nintendo hardware discourse is "Because Nintendo Logic" requires you to believe that Nintendo called Nvidia and told them "NOPE!! Too much power!! We don't play with that shit anymore!! That's so 1980s!!", but that would make them susceptible to a worse than Wii U-esque fate.

PS5 and XSX are actually irrelevant here - That statement is not as provocative as it might sound. Nintendo's next platform doesn't need to compete with those specs because there won't be a single game between now and 2028 which has PS5 paper specs as its minimum requirements. The existence of XSS will help a lot - XSS will get all of the Assassin's Creeds. It will have all of the CODs. It will have all of the sports games. It will get Witcher 4. It can have the next Final Fantasy. It will get Monster Hunter World 2. It will get GTA6, and by the same token, RDR3. Microsoft will not mandate a policy which allows developers to miss it, therefore THAT is the minimum performance threshold for development on home consoles. Steam Deck will surely get all or most of those, too, by virtue of being a PC at heart, so, we can identify a lower performance threshold than XSS in that. This SoC's GPU is more powerful than both, and although it won't be as powerful in the CPU area, that shouldn't be as much of an issue, because once more, none of those have a neural unit/DLSS, or room for manoeuvre, and therefore need the extra CPU grunt to get the results they put out on screen.

Simply put, "Because Nintendo Logic" can not fly in the face of what is known. For a while, this truth applies - If any game misses this prospective platform, it won't be a question of whether it was powerful enough, but one of industry politics, and because developers and publishers didn't want them there. Actually, we've seen this pivot in real-time, with comments about Yakuza games not being on Switch because of "family-friendly image" (Let's just ignore Nintendo's actual censorship policy VS the censoring Sony has done in more recent times, or the fact that Bayonetta is effectively Nintendo's Witch now (Get it? Nintendo's Witch, Nintendo Switch?), and in her Link costume, they suggested an unbuttoned top).
 

RedSpring

Rattata
Pronouns
He/They
I think Iwata would have done better for the Switch just by being better connected with Japanese developers. You need a certain level of influence to get Yakuza and Tekken on the WiiU. It didn't pan out then but I'm sure Iwata would have been able to capitalize on the Switch success and Sony decline in Japan much better than currently letting third party slowly get pull by the market factor. Like how he proactively make sure 3DS is the home for future Monster Hunter
 
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