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StarTopic NSO Expansion Pack |ST| Now available for purchase

Did you subscribe to the Expansion Pass?

  • Yes

    Votes: 99 66.9%
  • No- I am waiting for more content to be added

    Votes: 27 18.2%
  • No- I don't plan on subscribing any time soon.

    Votes: 22 14.9%

  • Total voters
    148

TurtleRock

Octorok
Pronouns
He/Him/His
It's going to be interesting to see when Nintendo add GB/GBC and what sort of options they provide, as well as whether that goes to the base sub or the expansion pack. Personally I expect any further systems to go on to the expansion pack.

The things I'd really wanted for GB/GBC would be extra features like filters so that you could replicate the look of different GB models - black and white, sickly green for that OG screen effect, the extra display styles you could access using a GB game on a GBC and pressing different button inputs on start-up, Super GameBoy mode. My concern is that Nintendo's efforts with NSO can often be so minimalist that we don't get neat extras like that. I think the 3DS had a button input which allowed you to experience the original green screen effect, though, so perhaps we still get that.

We should get some cool functionality and perhaps unexpected titles - maybe even Pokemon games and their saves being compatible with Pokemon Stadium on the N64 NSO app, given it seems to have transfer pak functionality.
This was the most disappointing thing about Gameboy VC on 3DS. I wanted the GBC color pallets for games like Pokemon Red and Blue. I wonder if they didn't include them because they wanted them to look only like the original gameboy games.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Didn't it take 2 years for us to get the option to swap the A and B button on the NES app?

I really hope there are some fixes but I think they will stealth patch these games.
OTOH, it only took a month to get a 3D All-Stars patch that improved Sunshine's performance and removed just about every visual and audio bug. Personally, I feel the slow rollout of titles is a sign they're working on the actual emulation, but who knows. Only two days to go anyway.
 

big lantern ghost

hoping you'll look the other way
Pronouns
he/him
Super prepared to drop all other video games for Paper Freaking Mario! If Chrono Cross is a remaster and ends up dropping this week, it’s gonna be a GOOD TIME.
 

carlosfilho

Koopa
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
Right now i'm thinking: what if Nintendo announces Torna for the Expansion Pack and then a Xenoblade 3 trailer follows? I'd be very happy if either one of these happened, but both of them would be crazy... Won't happen though xD
 

Mandos

Tingle
Pronouns
He/Him
if nso news is at TGA tonight (it wont) i'm making an avatar bet to turn into a nickit (my least favorite fox)
You were right. Although I wouldn’t rule out a non expansion pack base NSO update being announced on the 14th like the last 2 years on the same date which is on a Tuesday this year. But shrug time will tell
 

Mekanos

Let's Henshin!
Pronouns
he/they
Looking forward to Paper Mario dropping. Considering doing a BP-only run as I've never done anything like that before.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Looking forward to Paper Mario dropping. Considering doing a BP-only run as I've never done anything like that before.
I know literally nothing about challenge runs for Paper Mario, but be advised that unlike TTYD BP caps at 30 and you'll be forced to level HP or FP after that point. A pure BP-only run would therefore only allow 9 level ups throughout the entire game. It might be doable, but it'd be significantly harder than TTYD's unlimited BP (and greater badge selection).

If you're curious, HP and FP each cap at 50. Capping all 3 stats happens at level 27, and after that you no longer receive star points.
 

Mekanos

Let's Henshin!
Pronouns
he/they
I know literally nothing about challenge runs for Paper Mario, but be advised that unlike TTYD BP caps at 30 and you'll be forced to level HP or FP after that point. A pure BP-only run would therefore only allow 9 level ups throughout the entire game. It might be doable, but it'd be significantly harder than TTYD's unlimited BP (and greater badge selection).

If you're curious, HP and FP each cap at 50. Capping all 3 stats happens at level 27, and after that you no longer receive star points.
Oh really? In that case I don't think I'd be very interested in it, because I'm definitely not staying below level 9, lol.

When is this supposed to drop exactly?
 

Pineapple Pizza

"(Oh yeah, right here! Sherlock Holmes II, baby!)"
Any news on emulation improvements for N64? I'm not expecting any but it was offered as a theory as to why this month's offering is so paltry.
 

Super Nintendad

Rattata
Pronouns
He/Him
I posted a video of the opening area of Paper Mario. I need to go back and check out if there was anything else added. You still can’t change the controls. I should say I didn’t see an option to do it.

 

TurtleRock

Octorok
Pronouns
He/Him/His
I didn’t see any visual changes or fixes to the current rendering issues. The fog distance in OoT is still wrong for example.

The thing I did notice is I think the input lag is a little better. But this purely anecdotal to my experience. I could be totally wrong and someone will have to test it to know for sure.
 

Abzeronow

Koopa
Pronouns
he/him
Given that there was a stealth announcement of a Gremlin Interactive Collection cart for Evercade, I wouldn't be surprised if Genesis version of Zool gets added to NSO Expansion Pack. Or the first two Top Gear games as "Top Racer" from either Gremlin or Piko for the SNES app.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Any news on emulation improvements for N64? I'm not expecting any but it was offered as a theory as to why this month's offering is so paltry.
I've been investigating since reading this post. It seems people discovered some things by the posts above, but here's everything I've found:

-Despite initially feeling like input lag was reduced in Mario Kart 64's menu and OoT, a properly measured comparison from a 240fps recording of Super Mario 64 was identical across 1.0.0 and 1.1.0. I believe it was just placebo and input lag is unchanged.

-Fog is still greatly reduced

-Seams in upressed textures are still present

-The emulator still struggles with transparency in the same ways (i.e. some transparency is missing, some transparent textures are noisy)

However, that thing with Star Fox 64 I mentioned has been fixed, as noted by OatmealDome's tweet. Here's a screenshot I took from a video I captured of the issue:
yMLbKe3.jpg


This has been removed. So that's something, at least. I'm eager to see how Paper Mario fares, as that's another game that's notorious to get exactly right in an emulator.

That's pretty rough. People really need to make even more noise about this to get them to at least publicly respond, otherwise we have no idea if they'll ever fix it.
What are "this" and "it"? They fixed one issue, albeit once that was specific to a single game and seemingly not widely noticed. Personally, I'm content to continue waiting for 1.2.0; fixes for all the issues I outlined in just a month and a half would've been extraordinarily fast. As long as there's an improvement to something in each update, I'm not too worried.
 
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TurtleRock

Octorok
Pronouns
He/Him/His
I've been investigating since reading this post. It seems people discovered some things by the posts above, but here's everything I've found:

-Despite initially feeling like input lag was reduced in Mario Kart 64's menu and OoT, a properly measured comparison from a 240fps recording of Super Mario 64 was identical across 1.0.0 and 1.1.0. I believe it was just placebo and input lag is unchanged.

-Fog is still greatly reduced

-Seams in upressed textures are still present

-The emulator still struggles with transparency in the same ways (i.e. some transparency is missing, some transparent textures are noisy)

However, that thing with Star Fox 64 I mentioned has been fixed, as noted by OatmealDome's tweet. Here's a screenshot I took from a video I captured of the issue:
yMLbKe3.jpg


This has been removed. So that's something, at least. I'm eager to see how Paper Mario fares, as that's another game that's notorious to get exactly right in an emulator.
Do you think they tweaked analog stick input on the pro controller? Ocarina of Time just feels better to control when running around. Like the deadzone was reduced or something.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Do you think they tweaked analog stick input on the pro controller? Ocarina of Time just feels better to control when running around. Like the deadzone was reduced or something.
I made no measurements of this before, but I might have an un-updated Switch on hand I can compare to.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Do you think they tweaked analog stick input on the pro controller? Ocarina of Time just feels better to control when running around. Like the deadzone was reduced or something.
It feels exactly the same running 1.0.0 and 1.1.0 side by side.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
NCL aint the kind of folk who publicly respond unless something is serious
That, and Nintendo almost certainly doesn't want to promise something that likely doesn't and can't have an internal timetable by nature. Is NERD (assuming they're behind the N64 emulator) aware of the issues? Absolutely. While I can't definitively say they're actively working on them, it seems quite likely they've at least looked into fixing them. But there's no real way of knowing how long it's gonna take to work these bugs out, even if they are working on them as we speak - and there's theoretically a point where the devs at NERD will have a higher priority project.

Now yes, in a sense, further public pressure could theoretically force a public statement, which would raise the priority of fixing it. But I don't think the amount of pressure required is at all feasible.

As an aside, according to emulation experts, it seems everything but the input delay is a consequence of running these games at 720p. It's not like Nintendo just made a worse emulator this time; virtual console didn't need to solve these problems because running at 480p doesn't introduce them.
 

Hylianhero777

Piranha Plant
Pronouns
He/Him
I've been investigating since reading this post. It seems people discovered some things by the posts above, but here's everything I've found:

-Despite initially feeling like input lag was reduced in Mario Kart 64's menu and OoT, a properly measured comparison from a 240fps recording of Super Mario 64 was identical across 1.0.0 and 1.1.0. I believe it was just placebo and input lag is unchanged.

-Fog is still greatly reduced

-Seams in upressed textures are still present

-The emulator still struggles with transparency in the same ways (i.e. some transparency is missing, some transparent textures are noisy)

However, that thing with Star Fox 64 I mentioned has been fixed, as noted by OatmealDome's tweet. Here's a screenshot I took from a video I captured of the issue:
yMLbKe3.jpg


This has been removed. So that's something, at least. I'm eager to see how Paper Mario fares, as that's another game that's notorious to get exactly right in an emulator.


What are "this" and "it"? They fixed one issue, albeit once that was specific to a single game and seemingly not widely noticed. Personally, I'm content to continue waiting for 1.2.0; fixes for all the issues I outlined in just a month and a half would've been extraordinarily fast. As long as there's an improvement to something in each update, I'm not too worried.
Guess I just mean the poor emulation quality generally. They did fix one issue which is good, but I really would have preferred they publicly address specifically all of Ocarina of Time's myriad issues. The game shouldn't have launched in that state, and if they just aren't going to say anything about fixing it while updating the app and sort of pretending everything is normal with the games currently on there that is a bit worrying to me.
 

Abzeronow

Koopa
Pronouns
he/him
Given that there was a stealth announcement of a Gremlin Interactive Collection cart for Evercade, I wouldn't be surprised if Genesis version of Zool gets added to NSO Expansion Pack. Or the first two Top Gear games as "Top Racer" from either Gremlin or Piko for the SNES app.

I was wrong, it was officially announced today. Evercade looks like it's getting Genesis version of Zool and I wouldn't be surprised by that being added to Genesis on NSO

 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Guess I just mean the poor emulation quality generally. They did fix one issue which is good, but I really would have preferred they publicly address specifically all of Ocarina of Time's myriad issues. The game shouldn't have launched in that state, and if they just aren't going to say anything about fixing it while updating the app and sort of pretending everything is normal with the games currently on there that is a bit worrying to me.
Nintendo pretending everything is normal is unfortunately their standard. Breath of the Wild silently got a performance patch a month after launch (and having gone back and played the 1.0.0 version again - it's strikingly bad. I'm kinda surprised I forgot how bad it was). 3D All-Stars did the same, and Sunshine at launch was honestly in a fairly similar state to how N64 NSO is now with a list of visual and audio bugs.

As I outlined above, the feedback required for a public statement would be immense. Nintendo would rather just be silent about it - both to avoid admitting poor quality, and because they likely can't promise a timeline. Software development is hard. But they have proven the silence doesn't mean they're not doing anything.
 

Pokemaniac

Caught: 905
Founder
I've kind of suspected the video and audio was out of sync since the N64 app launched, but the text boxes in Paper Mario have removed all remaining doubt for me. The sound effects are pretty clearly playing later than the video.

Also, while Paper Mario is still one of the best looking N64 games due to some clever artistic choices, it was clearly not designed for 720p. There's visible geometry seams all over the place.

That, and Nintendo almost certainly doesn't want to promise something that likely doesn't and can't have an internal timetable by nature. Is NERD (assuming they're behind the N64 emulator) aware of the issues? Absolutely. While I can't definitively say they're actively working on them, it seems quite likely they've at least looked into fixing them. But there's no real way of knowing how long it's gonna take to work these bugs out, even if they are working on them as we speak - and there's theoretically a point where the devs at NERD will have a higher priority project.

Now yes, in a sense, further public pressure could theoretically force a public statement, which would raise the priority of fixing it. But I don't think the amount of pressure required is at all feasible.

As an aside, according to emulation experts, it seems everything but the input delay is a consequence of running these games at 720p. It's not like Nintendo just made a worse emulator this time; virtual console didn't need to solve these problems because running at 480p doesn't introduce them.
It's not clear to me how the fog and at least some of the transparency issues would be related to resolution. Like, some of the transparency things I could see being due to buffer resizing hacks, but in some places it just doesn't seem to be working at all.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
It's not clear to me how the fog and at least some of the transparency issues would be related to resolution. Like, some of the transparency things I could see being due to buffer resizing hacks, but in some places it just doesn't seem to be working at all.
I don't know the details myself, but an OoT modder on Twitter said it was likely the case. I might be able to find the tweet again, but I'm not sure.
I've kind of suspected the video and audio was out of sync since the N64 app launched, but the text boxes in Paper Mario have removed all remaining doubt for me. The sound effects are pretty clearly playing later than the video.
It's super obvious in Star Fox as well. Explosions are heard after they've already disappeared.
 

Krvavi Abadas

Mr. Archivist
Pronouns
He/Him
FYI, Paper Mario still has the broken Visual Effect in Shooting Star Summit that's been around since the Wii Virtual Console.

There's a similarly glitchy boss much later in the game (The stars aren't meant to be outside the boss's body.) but i don't think anyone has gotten that far yet.
Monstar.png


Otherwise, i think the game scales up very nicely in Handheld mode. The art style has aged quite well over the years.
 

winstein

Shriekbat
Dr.-Mario-Controls-Controller.jpg


There's something curious about Dr. Mario 64 that I noticed, regarding the C Buttons functionality. I don't have the pack so hopefully it's OK to ask here. For those who can check, what does "Turn Landing Effect On/Off" do?

Thank you for reading.
 

Robert

Big Think
Pronouns
He/Him
FamiGold
1
Dr.-Mario-Controls-Controller.jpg


There's something curious about Dr. Mario 64 that I noticed, regarding the C Buttons functionality. I don't have the pack so hopefully it's OK to ask here. For those who can check, what does "Turn Landing Effect On/Off" do?

Thank you for reading.
IIRC, that setting enables or disables the ghost capsule that shows where your next capsule is going to land.
 

MisterSpo

Inkling
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
Yeah, as much as I don't think N64 NSO shouldn't have launched the way it did, I'd expect more patches over time. It is true that NERD assist on other projects - like Ring Fit Adventure and Mario Kart Live, for example - so it could be the case N64 becomes even lower priority at some point.

Hopefully that's not the case. Supposedly GB/GBC emulation is done, and given Nintendo want more money in exchange for N64/Mega Drive, I'd hope they allow NERD to keep improving the N64 side of things.
 

Hylianhero777

Piranha Plant
Pronouns
He/Him

So this is true of all of the NSO emulators apparently, but the thing is, since N64 games are crashing more than NES/SNES/Genesis games, including new crashes in Paper Mario that are are new to this version, it's a way bigger problem on N64 NSO.

They need to make legit improvements to the emulator itself. No more hacking around the issues on a per game basis with Lua scripts. It's totally ridiculous at this point.
 

MRC-OSF

Inch of Dust
Has anyone put in some considerable time with Ocarina in handheld mode? Looking for some impressions and thoughts...thanks
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
It would appear some of the Water Temple stuff has been fixed but not the fog

The fog isn't "missing"; this is oft repeated but has never been true. It's just greatly reduced. The distance is still noticeably washed out, even in that screenshot. I have a feeling this is an intentional global change, to the benefit of some locations and detriment of others. Ultimately, this is more of a controversial issue than it is a straight downgrade.

This got posted as I was making a summary of my own observations. I believe reflections are the only improvement, at least to OoT. Texture seams and noisy transparencies (an issue that I've found has gone largely unnoticed) are still there. I have yet to test for any changes to input delay.

Paper Mario did not receive a fix to the Watt crash (I haven't heard anything about the tree and am not far enough to test it myself, but that's the harder fix).
 

thelegendofcap

Rattata
Pronouns
He / Him
FYI, Paper Mario still has the broken Visual Effect in Shooting Star Summit that's been around since the Wii Virtual Console.

There's a similarly glitchy boss much later in the game (The stars aren't meant to be outside the boss's body.) but i don't think anyone has gotten that far yet.
Monstar.png


Otherwise, i think the game scales up very nicely in Handheld mode. The art style has aged quite well over the years.

I got to this part already and he didn’t look like this. The only thing I’ve noticed is the slowdown in the menus and the Lava Piranha battle but that’s about it.

Edit: Just confirmed by watching a play through someone posted of the NSO version. It’s fine!

Anybody know if 3-point filtering got enabled for the older games? That’s something that was bugging me about MK64/OOT :\
 
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manfromthedam

Semi Undercover Game Music Guy
Would've loved to play Ocarina at 30FPS. Am now trying the 20FPS version (something I try every few years), and despite seeing that there's a excellently paced and elegantly designed game under there, it still feels very unresponsive and kinda hard on the eyes with this framerate. Otherwise it looks fine. Not sure if I'll finish it, handheld mode is a bonus for games of this length but I always get frustrated at Bongo Bongo and stop.

Here's hoping they'll port the 30FPS version one day!

(Bonus: playing BotW directly after an hour of OoT is a revelation. 20 years of tech and art improvement, yay!)
 
Pronouns
He/Him
It seems like my Tribute64 wireless just came home after two weeks drifting through france.

I'll finally be able to play the N64 games (Almost) as intended

The official N64 controller is 60 € plus 10 € shipping. No way in hell i'm paying 70 € for it.

LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 

MisterSpo

Inkling
Founder
Pronouns
He/Him
How are we all finding Banjo? It's the least scientific test possible, but I thought the trailer footage looked excellent and that this might be one of the better performing games on the emulator.

Also pleased to see there's been at least one further change in this NSO update, with the reflections being fixed in OOT.
 

Hylianhero777

Piranha Plant
Pronouns
He/Him
Saw someone already posted the halfway fix for the water temple in OOT. Here are some other updates:


So still not great, but the fact that OOT's water temple fix was a change to the code of the emulator itself and not hacked around via one of their Lua patches is actually pretty promising to me. Hopefully through both Lua patches and actual emulator fixes they get this into better shape soon. Would very much like fog to be fixed by the time Majora's Mask comes out.
 

Jersh

#TeamJanuary
Developer
FamiGold
2
Would very much like fog to be fixed by the time Majora's Mask comes out.
I feel it's likely the fog was intentionally toned down. It's hard to say for certain, of course. Hyrule Field and the outside of Peach's Castle seem like areas that had fog out of limitation and not artistic choice.

But other locations definitely do suffer for it. I'm not looking forward to the intro of Majora's Mask without it.
 


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