StarTopic Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack |ST| New 2024 Poll Up

[Brofield]

Fourteen days between the best two, huh? That was it? We didn’t know how good we had it, huh…

A new N64 game every two weeks means we probably would have tapped out of games and gotten all that we could possibly have wanted by the start of this year, and honestly? I wouldn't be as spiteful as I am now about paying so much for such an otherwise lackluster service.

 

[Josh5890]

So... Is it like, one GBA game or one N64 game now per month? Cause that's kinda disappointing if so. Was looking forward to Amazing Mirror this month.

I hate the dripfeed lol

The month is early so a GBA update can't be ruled out.

I hope....

 

[TomNookYankees]

So... Is it like, one GBA game or one N64 game now per month? Cause that's kinda disappointing if so. Was looking forward to Amazing Mirror this month.

I hate the dripfeed lol

For the future my pessimistic expectations are

• 1 N64 game every 3 months, maybe every 2-3 months if we are lucky
• 1 GBA game per month
• A batch of Genesis games every 4 months
• A batch of NES/SNES games once per year, maybe twice a year if we are lucky
• A batch of Gameboy/Color games once every 2-3 months

 

[SeafoamGaming]

Credit for the discovery goes to this InstallBase thread,

Video Game IP Trademark searching (Don't give me hope); may contain spoilers

One thing I like to do from time to time is to check on trademarks. There have been instances where a trademark filing has indicated a new game announcement in the future, two instances I can remember was when Capcom trademarked Ghosts n' Goblins before they announced the resurrection title and...

www.installbaseforum.com

but alongside the trademarks of names for many announced titles for GB / GBA NSO, there are three that have not yet been announced:

1) The Sacred Stones - The least interesting of this selection, since it was naturally going to be coming down the road eventually; already being localised and available on Wii U Virtual Console. Good thing Fire Emblem fans have something else to look forward to...

2) Solar Striker - A first-party Game Boy title that isn't often talked about; a rare vertical scrolling shoot 'em up attempt from Nintendo. This game entirely skipped 3DS Virtual Console, so showing up on NSO would make for a notable addition.

3) The Binding Blade... in English?! - Don't get it twisted either, this trademark, like the others, is fully registered for use outside of Japan (see below). FE6 was announced for release on the Japanese GBA app, but obviously wasn't for the international app given it has no existing localisation. This, registered at the same time as other titles already part of the GB/GBA NSO slate, may perhaps suggest that an official localisation of FE6 is on the way? Can't make that claim with certainty, but it is a very strong clue towards that being the case, and has massive implications for the future of NSO if it comes to pass.

Solar Striker was one of my biggest 3DS VC hopes I wanted that never came to be. I am super hyped to see this! Hoping Radar Mission, Wave Race GB and GB Tennis also make it for some OG GB reps.

Binding Blade I do not see coming in english though: noooooo way they'd localize that over FE Gaiden or the SNES games if they had the choice

 

[Brofield]

You know what? I'll retract all my bitching about NSO if Nintendo localizes Custom Robo V1 and V2.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell? Absolutely not when they're among the densest games in terms of text to translate from Japanese, but like...Super Smash Bros is coming; it's a crime it's taking as long as it is, but it's coming. Harvest Moon 64? Currently scheduled as a Japan NSO exclusive, but it's been released on Wii U before in the West.

I want to see an announcement that actually justifies the high cost of subscription for the Expansion Pass after all this dripfeed nonsense. To me, I think that's the only thing that could positively surprise me that isn't a heavy sigh followed by "finally."

 

[Common Knowledge]

Credit for the discovery goes to this InstallBase thread,

Video Game IP Trademark searching (Don't give me hope); may contain spoilers

One thing I like to do from time to time is to check on trademarks. There have been instances where a trademark filing has indicated a new game announcement in the future, two instances I can remember was when Capcom trademarked Ghosts n' Goblins before they announced the resurrection title and...

www.installbaseforum.com

but alongside the trademarks of names for many announced titles for GB / GBA NSO, there are three that have not yet been announced:

1) The Sacred Stones - The least interesting of this selection, since it was naturally going to be coming down the road eventually; already being localised and available on Wii U Virtual Console. Good thing Fire Emblem fans have something else to look forward to...

2) Solar Striker - A first-party Game Boy title that isn't often talked about; a rare vertical scrolling shoot 'em up attempt from Nintendo. This game entirely skipped 3DS Virtual Console, so showing up on NSO would make for a notable addition.

3) The Binding Blade... in English?! - Don't get it twisted either, this trademark, like the others, is fully registered for use outside of Japan (see below). FE6 was announced for release on the Japanese GBA app, but obviously wasn't for the international app given it has no existing localisation. This, registered at the same time as other titles already part of the GB/GBA NSO slate, may perhaps suggest that an official localisation of FE6 is on the way? Can't make that claim with certainty, but it is a very strong clue towards that being the case, and has massive implications for the future of NSO if it comes to pass.

Haha wow I totally made my post earlier today about wishing for Binding Blade without seeing this post up above on the same page! Now I’m excited! Hope this comes true.

 

[Derachi]

You know what? I'll retract all my bitching about NSO if Nintendo localizes Custom Robo V1 and V2.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell? Absolutely not when they're among the densest games in terms of text to translate from Japanese, but like...Super Smash Bros is coming; it's a crime it's taking as long as it is, but it's coming. Harvest Moon 64? Currently scheduled as a Japan NSO exclusive, but it's been released on Wii U before in the West.

I want to see an announcement that actually justifies the high cost of subscription for the Expansion Pass after all this dripfeed nonsense. To me, I think that's the only thing that could positively surprise me that isn't a heavy sigh followed by "finally."

I think Harvest Moon would be hard because the game itself and the title “Harvest Moon” are currently held by two different companies or something. There was a split there at some point. Unless they want to issue a rom hack to change it to “Story of Seasons 64” I don’t think we’ll see it.

 

[MondoMega]

I think Harvest Moon would be hard because the game itself and the title “Harvest Moon” are currently held by two different companies or something. There was a split there at some point. Unless they want to issue a rom hack to change it to “Story of Seasons 64” I don’t think we’ll see it.

That Wii U VC release was in 2017, long after Marvelous and Natsume had their falling out. The PS1 Story of Seasons game also just released on PS+++ back in February.

Harvest Moon: Back to Nature

Experience Harvest Moon Back to Nature originally released on the PlayStation® console, enhanced with up-rendering, rewind, quick save, and custom video filters. It’s a Different Kind of RPG for the Entire Family As a child you visited your Grandfather’s ranch when vacation plans fell...

store.playstation.com

If Harvest Moon 64 (or the SNES game, which is already on the Super Famicom app) never show up internationally i'm going to assume the reason is on Nintendo cheaping out on extra licencing costs.

 

[TomNookYankees]

You know what? I'll retract all my bitching about NSO if Nintendo localizes Custom Robo V1 and V2.

Is there a snowball's chance in hell? Absolutely not when they're among the densest games in terms of text to translate from Japanese, but like...Super Smash Bros is coming; it's a crime it's taking as long as it is, but it's coming. Harvest Moon 64? Currently scheduled as a Japan NSO exclusive, but it's been released on Wii U before in the West.

I want to see an announcement that actually justifies the high cost of subscription for the Expansion Pass after all this dripfeed nonsense. To me, I think that's the only thing that could positively surprise me that isn't a heavy sigh followed by "finally."

Harvest Moon on the SNES and Harvest Moon 64 already had NA versions for their original releases. The main thing holding back Harvest Moon games from getting NSO release outside of japan is issues with ownership/licensing.

As for localization, the closest thing nintendo was willing to do for localization of NSO games was Fire Emblem on the NES and even then they only released it as a separate game from NSO that had to be purchased for $5 and was only available from December 2020 throughtMarch 2021.

Basically at this point it's best to just assume that Nintendo won't be doing anything that requires any real investment of time/money besides dumping roms on their emulation apps and occasionally fixing emulation bugs.

 

[TomNookYankees]

That Wii U VC release was in 2017, long after Marvelous and Natsume had their falling out. The PS1 Story of Seasons game also just released on PS+++ back in February.

Harvest Moon: Back to Nature

Experience Harvest Moon Back to Nature originally released on the PlayStation® console, enhanced with up-rendering, rewind, quick save, and custom video filters. It’s a Different Kind of RPG for the Entire Family As a child you visited your Grandfather’s ranch when vacation plans fell...

store.playstation.com

If Harvest Moon 64 (or the SNES game, which is already on the Super Famicom app) never show up internationally i'm going to assume the reason is on Nintendo cheaping out on extra licencing costs.

The difference is that it was easier for nintendo to get third party games on VC because it just meant giving the owners of the license a chunk of sales of the specific VC titles. Getting those same games on NSO is much more difficult because nintendo is not going to give a big chunk of NSO revenue to third parties.

 

[Brofield]

I think Harvest Moon would be hard because the game itself and the title “Harvest Moon” are currently held by two different companies or something. There was a split there at some point. Unless they want to issue a rom hack to change it to “Story of Seasons 64” I don’t think we’ll see it.

That Wii U VC release was in 2017, long after Marvelous and Natsume had their falling out. The PS1 Story of Seasons game also just released on PS+++ back in February.

Harvest Moon: Back to Nature

Experience Harvest Moon Back to Nature originally released on the PlayStation® console, enhanced with up-rendering, rewind, quick save, and custom video filters. It’s a Different Kind of RPG for the Entire Family As a child you visited your Grandfather’s ranch when vacation plans fell...

store.playstation.com

If Harvest Moon 64 (or the SNES game, which is already on the Super Famicom app) never show up internationally i'm going to assume the reason is on Nintendo cheaping out on extra licencing costs.

Yeah, that whole licensing thing seems especially weird to me specifically because the rights/ownership should seemingly be split, and yet those games still persist in an era when we're hypervigilant about preservation. Idk, it still feels very much like this is entirely in Nintendo's control whether they drop the ball or not, and they're standing in an open field without so much as a light breeze.

Basically at this point it's best to just assume that Nintendo won't be doing anything that requires any real investment of time/money besides dumping roms on their emulation apps and occasionally fixing emulation bugs.

This is what disappoints and frustrates me the most, because realistically this is all it's going to be. We want this service to be better, we know it can be better. Myself and so many others are aware that we're trapped in this loop of buying into Nintendo before they deliver, always forgetting that minimal effort on their part still delivers fantastic results for their bottom line, so why should they go the extra mile?

Amusingly, the "Because Nintendo." argument holds more weight here than it does in the Hardware Speculation thread.

 

[rickyson33]

at this point I just wanna know when the Pokemon Stadium games are being released

those were the main thing I wanted out of the system other than Paper Mario and it's been 6 and a half months now since they've been announced

anyone have any requests for things I should force Nintendo to release next?

 

[Brofield]

anyone have any requests for things I should force Nintendo to release next?

After accidentally manifesting Wave Race 64 last August, let's see if we can get Smash before the end of the calendar year. Bonus points if it's before the end of summer.

 

[TomNookYankees]

anyone have any requests for things I should force Nintendo to release next?

The depressing part is that nintendo could very easily put Fire Emblem 1 onto NA/PAL/KR NSO because they already localized it but they wont because doing so would be an implicit admission it was dumb to sell the localization separately for a limited 4 month window.

 

[rickyson33]

The depressing part is that nintendo could very easily put Fire Emblem 1 onto NA/PAL/KR NSO because they already localized it but they wont because doing so would be an implicit admission it was dumb to sell the localization separately for a limited 4 month window.

it's pretty annoying the way they translated that just for a limited time thing

I passed on buying it because I refuse to support the idea of limited time game releases but I also didn't think they'd just....never rerelease it

 

[MondoMega]

The depressing part is that nintendo could very easily put Fire Emblem 1 onto NA/PAL/KR NSO because they already localized it but they wont because doing so would be an implicit admission it was dumb to sell the localization separately for a limited 4 month window.

Not as simple as just dumping it on the international NES app.

The only ROM in that Shadow Dragon application is the vanilla JP ROM, which is patched at runtime with emulator-reliant hacks to display the English script (not too dissimilar in theory to the use of Lua patches for localised text in 3D All-Stars' Mario 64, but different in execution). There are multiple pieces of evidence pointing towards this being a project completed in the Wii U era and sat on for years, which would explain the bizzare use of the Wii U Virtual Console FC / NES emulator (dark filter and all) over the NSO equivalent. This is also why you haven't seen anyone rip an English ROM and use it in a hobbyist emulator on other platforms; it doesn't exist and it isn't possible.

Obviously it would be possible for them to recreate the patch for use in Kachikachi, but it is an extra layer of work that makes me hesitant to label this a Lazy Nintendo Move. Still an Arrogant Nintendo Move for not keeping the individual release up though.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Oh cool Pokemon Stadium... by itself... and further verifying that Nintendo and Game Freak don't really give a shit so it's going to be a super limited version. I mean I'm happy the game got re-released, but the degree its hindered all because Game Freak thinks even the OG games are such incredibly valuable shit that they can't even conceive of offering them on a subscription service. I wonder if they'll even bother re-releasing them at $10 a pop on Switch/Switch 2 at this point. It's just so damn annoying you could literally have a major boon to the service and also make these specific releases immensely more valuable to the players, but god forbid Nintendo actually give a little value on the service above and beyond the bare minimum.

Stadium 1 and 2 should have been a dual release, not just because of the fact that they're incredibly feature poor without the transfer pack and therefore severely limited, but for the fact we've gotten such sporadic and inconsistent N64 releases.


Also the fact that PS Plus got PS1 Harvest Moon further proves to me it's not some insurmountable thing to get Harvest Moon released outside of Japan and definitely means Harvest Moon 64 is on the table, but hey why bother putting that work in to get past that hurdle. Why put any work in towards translating those Japanese exclusives or hell, releasing the OG Fire Emblem you already released as a nice extra perk? You've even got the perfect justification in the "as a buy to own product, it had a limited period and now it's available through our online service!". Like just a super easy thing to do at this point. You don't even have to go through the NES app, just give away the download for free! And while you're at it, BRING BACK SUPER MARIO 35 for subscribers! Arika can run the servers for a few more years.

It's just so damn disappointing at this point what the service has turned into, and it's just this constant demonstration that Nintendo does not care about their back catalogue, does not care about providing real value to their customers, and seems to see NSO more as a nuance of slow rolling "value" to customers that can net them money rather than a service they're actually going to invest in properly. Yes, we've gotten a few games we haven't gotten in the past including Stadium now and obviously finally getting Rare officially on board was great (though we have pretty sufficient evidence Wii U was going that route anyway, but hey, didn't actually happen). But it just starts to feel worse and worse when clear opportunities are not being taken, content being drip fed would be being too charitable to the service, and and like we've had to pay for online for 5 years for virtually no real improvements except when a sequel finally fixes some things ala Splatoon 3 (and even then it breaks all the time).

Damn, I didn't even mean for this to turn into a rant, but I'm just once again super bummed with how things keep playing out.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Not as simple as just dumping it on the international NES app.

The only ROM in that Shadow Dragon application is the vanilla JP ROM, which is patched at runtime with emulator-reliant hacks to display the English script (not too dissimilar in theory to the use of Lua patches for localised text in 3D All-Stars' Mario 64, but different in execution). There are multiple pieces of evidence pointing towards this being a project completed in the Wii U era and sat on for years, which would explain the bizzare use of the Wii U Virtual Console FC / NES emulator (dark filter and all) over the NSO equivalent. This is also why you haven't seen anyone rip an English ROM and use it in a hobbyist emulator on other platforms; it doesn't exist and it isn't possible.

Obviously it would be possible for them to recreate the patch for use in Kachikachi, but it is an extra layer of work that makes me hesitant to label this a Lazy Nintendo Move. Still an Arrogant Nintendo Move for not keeping the individual release up though.

As I said, not a thing stopping them for just throwing the download as a perk of the Expansion Pack. They made ALL the money off of it they could have been interested in, why not give it and Super Mario 35 back to the Expansion Pack players?

 

[batfax]

I've still yet to see anyone confirm for me if that Harvest Moon on PS Plus is actually a new version or if it's just another grandfathered in form of the PS Classics and therefore has no hurdle 'cause the ink's been dry for, like, a decade. Wish I had a PlayStation 4/5.

 

[kaydeejay]

anyone have any requests for things I should force Nintendo to release next?

If you could go ahead and get them to drop the Oracle games this month so I can blow through them before TotK, that'd be great. I'll give you the highest award I can possibly give: a crisp high-five through the internet. Neat!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I've still yet to see anyone confirm for me if that Harvest Moon on PS Plus is actually a new version or if it's just another grandfathered in form of the PS Classics and therefore has no hurdle 'cause the ink's been dry for, like, a decade. Wish I had a PlayStation 4/5.

I severely doubt a grandfather clause could get the game to PS5 like that. That's still a totally new release because it's a new platform that would not have been inked in unless Sony and Natsume went realllllllly far in how they inked in some perpetuity deal. Like, clearly the publishers have some sway given some PS Classics are available to outright purchase and some are not as we've seen with Resident Evil and like, Back to Nature is not a game I think Sony HAD to prioritize or anything like that.

Backwards Compatibility with download titles is basically, as we've seen with Xbox and PlayStation at this point, is on an extremely specific case by case basis and not some universal thing. I don't really see how the PS Classics line would be unique in that regard.

 

[batfax]

It's super unusual, yeah. It's why I'm so curious as to how the hell it can happen. Like, I easily imagined HM64 came to Wii U Virtual Console so late after the split because there had been emulation work on it, iirc, as far back as the Wii. How BtN could happen on PS5 nowadays is extremely bizarre to me. Doubly so when Marvelous has something to lose from BtN being available, as it could draw sales away from the remake of the demake that is Story of Seasons: Friends of Mineral Town.

 

[Phendrift]

If you could go ahead and get them to drop the Oracle games this month so I can blow through them before TotK, that'd be great. I'll give you the highest award I can possibly give: a crisp high-five through the internet. Neat!

This is exactly what I was hoping for, Oracles are the only remaining mainline SP Zelda’s I haven’t finished, was really hoping to knock them out on switch might have to bring out 3DS…

 

[Abisales]

Do you believe Smash 64 will be added to Expansion Pack and if you do, when could be done?

 

[MisterSpo]

The April 12th release date cuts into the potential time for further releases this month, which personally is more of a bummer for me because it reduces the chances of getting an interesting mix of releases like last month.

Presumably the next GBA release will be announced a week ahead of release, too, and I'm not sure they'll have a release and announcement in the same week (which cuts down the potential update windows further).

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

I've been looking into the N64 library on the NSO and realized that there isn't a single racing game aside of Mario Kart and F-Zero, and i really miss the N64 racing game library.

I know that most of them use licensed vehicles and would be either too expensive or a pain in the ass to put back in the library.

But the Top Gear games (Rally/Rally 2/Overdrive) and Ridge Racer would be great pics, and after testing the N64 controller with F-Zero i can't help but to hope they manage to get them for the service. Same for the GBA library, there's some amazing racers there.

 

[Dcubed]

For the future my pessimistic expectations are

• 1 N64 game every 3 months, maybe every 2-3 months if we are lucky
• 1 GBA game per month
• A batch of Genesis games every 4 months
• A batch of NES/SNES games once per year, maybe twice a year if we are lucky
• A batch of Gameboy/Color games once every 2-3 months

This is probably accurate. Nintendo are running out of N64 games that they can easily release now and that along with GB & GBA now has to last them until the end of the Switch's lifecycle because they are out of consoles that they can now add to the current Switch's NSO service (unless they choose to add TG16... but that would involve negotiations with Konami... who are notoriously useless cunts). So they will need to drag the remaining VC library out for as long as possible from here out.

The last thing Nintendo wants is to be left with no future games to add before Switch 2 comes out (and eventually comes along with DS, GCN, Saturn, Dreamcast, Wii, 3DS and Wii U to revitalise the service).

 

[MisterSpo]

I hadn't properly been paying attention, but the only forthcoming games for the GameBoy that Nintendo confirmed worldwide are higher profile GBC releases - the Zelda: Oracles games, Pokemon TCG, and Kirby Tilt n' Tumble. For Japan, there's the og GB title Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru. It's obvious after that surprise Kirby's Dreamland 2 & Burgertime Deluxe update, but those GBC titles will likely be gradually doled out on the service.

GB does have plenty of other options for Nintendo if they want to do more drops before the announced GBC titles come along. Kid Icarus: Myths & Monsters, Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land and Donkey Kong (1994) are probably highest on my personal wishlist, but we've really no idea how Nintendo are going to string this stuff out.

The basic subscription got updated 4 or 5 times last year, I think, so if Nintendo decide to stick to that kind of irregular, spread out cadence, I'd hope the future updates contain more than 2 games for GB; though it likely depends on NES/SNES plans.

 

[Brofield]

For the future my pessimistic expectations are

• 1 N64 game every 3 months, maybe every 2-3 months if we are lucky
• 1 GBA game per month
• A batch of Genesis games every 4 months
• A batch of NES/SNES games once per year, maybe twice a year if we are lucky
• A batch of Gameboy/Color games once every 2-3 months

I'm inclined to agree, but yeah that is bleak to consider if this is how quickly NSO updates have degraded/

Oh cool Pokemon Stadium... by itself... and further verifying that Nintendo and Game Freak don't really give a shit so it's going to be a super limited version. I mean I'm happy the game got re-released, but the degree its hindered all because Game Freak thinks even the OG games are such incredibly valuable shit that they can't even conceive of offering them on a subscription service. I wonder if they'll even bother re-releasing them at $10 a pop on Switch/Switch 2 at this point. It's just so damn annoying you could literally have a major boon to the service and also make these specific releases immensely more valuable to the players, but god forbid Nintendo actually give a little value on the service above and beyond the bare minimum.

Stadium 1 and 2 should have been a dual release, not just because of the fact that they're incredibly feature poor without the transfer pack and therefore severely limited, but for the fact we've gotten such sporadic and inconsistent N64 releases.


Also the fact that PS Plus got PS1 Harvest Moon further proves to me it's not some insurmountable thing to get Harvest Moon released outside of Japan and definitely means Harvest Moon 64 is on the table, but hey why bother putting that work in to get past that hurdle. Why put any work in towards translating those Japanese exclusives or hell, releasing the OG Fire Emblem you already released as a nice extra perk? You've even got the perfect justification in the "as a buy to own product, it had a limited period and now it's available through our online service!". Like just a super easy thing to do at this point. You don't even have to go through the NES app, just give away the download for free! And while you're at it, BRING BACK SUPER MARIO 35 for subscribers! Arika can run the servers for a few more years.

It's just so damn disappointing at this point what the service has turned into, and it's just this constant demonstration that Nintendo does not care about their back catalogue, does not care about providing real value to their customers, and seems to see NSO more as a nuance of slow rolling "value" to customers that can net them money rather than a service they're actually going to invest in properly. Yes, we've gotten a few games we haven't gotten in the past including Stadium now and obviously finally getting Rare officially on board was great (though we have pretty sufficient evidence Wii U was going that route anyway, but hey, didn't actually happen). But it just starts to feel worse and worse when clear opportunities are not being taken, content being drip fed would be being too charitable to the service, and and like we've had to pay for online for 5 years for virtually no real improvements except when a sequel finally fixes some things ala Splatoon 3 (and even then it breaks all the time).

Damn, I didn't even mean for this to turn into a rant, but I'm just once again super bummed with how things keep playing out.

A Yeah! wasn't sufficient; I agree with this with all my soul.

 

[Josh5890]

Spoiler: Pattern mfer nonsense

• NSO N64 Service Launch - October 25, 2021
  • Dr. Mario 64
  • Mario Kart 64
  • Mario Tennis
  • Sin and Punishment
  • Star Fox 64
  • Super Mario 64
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
  • WinBack: Covert Operations
  • Yoshi’s Story
• Paper Mario (December 10, 2021) 46 days - Second Friday
• Banjo-Kazooie (January 20, 2022) 41 days - Third Thursday
• The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask (February 25, 2022) 36 days - Fourth Friday
• F-Zero Zero X (March 11, 2022) 14 days - Second Friday
• Mario Golf (April 15, 2022) 35 days - Third Friday
• Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (May 20, 2022) 35 days - Third Friday
• Pokemon Snap (June 24, 2022) 35 days - Fourth Friday
• Pokémon Puzzle League (July 15, 2022) 21 days - Third Friday
• Wave Race 64 (August 19, 2022) 34 days - Third Friday
• Pilotwings 64 (October 13, 2022) 55 days - Third Wednesday
• Mario Party/Mario Party 2 (November 2, 2022) 20 days - First Wednesday
• GoldenEye 007 (January 26, 2023) 85 days - Fourth Thursday
• Pokémon Stadium (April 12, 2023) 76 days - Second Wednesday

Spoiler: Despondent nonsense

I don't like these extended times between updates. Until recently we were about 35 days apart between releases, but now because of the gap between GoldenEye and Pokemon Stadium, the average time between releases are 43.7 days. Six weeks. At this rate we might not get whatever's next of Mario Party 3/Pokemon Stadium 2/1080 Snowboarding/ExciteBike 64 until June.

Yes, I concede there's no point releasing anything in May given the 700 lbs gorilla that is Zelda, but maaaaaaaannnnnnn...they really listed those 2023 games to say stop bothering us and now Smash Bros 64 isn't coming until 2024.

In conclusion don't be like me.

I meant to touch on this yesterday. It should be noted that the order which games are shown in Nintendo Direct videos does not mean that is how they will be released on the service. For example, Banjo-Kazooie was the last game that was shown back in Oct 2021 (Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing lol), but it was the second update. Basically, there is no guarantee that Kirby and the Amazing Mirror is the next GBA game, just like how Mario Party 3 did not end up being the next N64 update. Same thing with GB/GBC games (which should have been a conclusion anyway since the first update had none of the roadmap games).

Great write up by the way!

 

[Brofield]

I meant to touch on this yesterday. It should be noted that the order which games are shown in Nintendo Direct videos does not mean that is how they will be released on the service. For example, Banjo-Kazooie was the last game that was shown back in Oct 2021 (Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing lol), but it was the second update. Basically, there is no guarantee that Kirby and the Amazing Mirror is the next GBA game, just like how Mario Party 3 did not end up being the next N64 update. Same thing with GB/GBC games (which should have been a conclusion anyway since the first update had none of the roadmap games).

Great write up by the way!

That's true too! While I can understand not wanting to go in the precise order they're revealed in, at least I'm happy for N64 they're sticking with what's in each dedicated roadmap. Means there's still a great likelihood for another roadmap to be revealed before long anyhow so we can at least get confirmation that the next (and possibly final) batch of N64 games coming to NSO means we can at least prepare and anticipate accordingly.

It doesn't bug me as much I guess with GBA because there is a larger library to choose from if they go off-script, but I do hope Pokemon TCG for GBC is added sooner rather than later haha

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

Oh cool Pokemon Stadium (...) I'm just once again super bummed with how things keep playing out.

I can't say i'm exactly a fan of the lazy/don't care rethoric being happily thrown around here, we don't know what's going on in the background so, can we just not make such abrassive assumptions?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I can't say i'm exactly a fan of the lazy/don't care rethoric being happily thrown around here, we don't know what's going on in the background so, can we just not make such abrassive assumptions?

This isn't a brand new game where 1000 people get worked to the bone through crunch and there's a million reasons why a game might end up the way it does. This is a back catalogue that Nintendo owns most of the rights to and has re-released several times now. It's a bunch of ROMs that they own outright and could throw on the service at any time they want.

I'm not sorry at all for taking this stance. Nintendo just nuked their Virtual Console out of existence forever and any meaningful way to access a huge portion of their back catalogue is no longer accessible despite cries of protest and years of people asking for better alternatives on modern hardware. NSO is now the ONLY official, legal way to play anything old of Nintendo's. And represents a far cry from the quality, frequency, and sheer breadth of both their prior pay to own services. They turned what was already considered a pretty disappointing drip feed from the Wii U VC (which was already a step back from the Wii VC in a lot of ways) into a "here's some occasional scraps" and you now pay us $50 a year with no monthly option mind you.

I'm not defending them any more on this. I've been a Nintendo fan all my life, but the combination of blowing up the eShops with no real care to making stuff accessible one last time or more affordably while also watching as NSO has turned into an even worse value arguably with the inconsistent releases just finally acted as the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Nintendo has been releasing roms for 17 years now. They know how to do this pretty well at this point and they certainly have the resources to do better. I don't blame the people working on the roms and optimizing when relevant. They're just doing their job. But Nintendo as an entity has chosen to disregard their back catalogue and under invest in it from an accessibility standpoint and I feel you can make a pretty decent case Nintendo is averse to the concept of "too much value" on the service. In an era where Xbox and PlayStation can pull down huge modern titles from publishing partners for their paid services, Nintendo barely going beyond their own back catalogue and also further limiting how much they actually release of THEIR OWN catalogue with a bunch of notable exceptions months if not years off just doesn't cut it anymore. Put some money in to the service, pay your developers more to work on the back catalogue, focus on accessibility of the catalogue.

Why is Fire Emblem 1 translated not for sale any more, what's the point in Super Mario 3D All Stars being off the store, why pull Super Mario 35 down? Bring that stuff and make it accessible. You've got a sizable catalogue of GBA games, don't release em one at a time and pretend you're doing us a favor. Let us buy more games again from those old systems. If it's just your first party titles, that's fine, at least it reintroduces ownership back into the equation.

And that's all without getting into the online I'm supposed to be paying for in the first place being a shit show with no remedy in sight except hoping that Nintendo will finally get online play right on their third try for a home console.

The corporate structure that is Nintendo is what I'm calling out, not the individual devs. And no part of me feels inclined to die on the sword of corporate defense. It's an investment and intransigence problem with regards to company philosophy, not a developmental hurdle.

 

[Starbreaker]

I got out of the overly expensive and rediculous retro scene for obvious reasons and it kind of sucks in a way that I would love to own some of my favorites of their back catalogue physically, on modern hardware, in HD, and they place almost everything through a subscription

Third parties have done an excellent job at this with all of the collections and remakes. I love to collect what I enjoyed back in the day without the hassle. It's like when they do its either a single game but not the rest, a limited time deal, they do minimal work on it and/or it's full price.

 

[TomNookYankees]

The corporate structure that is Nintendo is what I'm calling out, not the individual devs. And no part of me feels inclined to die on the sword of corporate defense. It's an investment and intransigence problem with regards to company philosophy, not a developmental hurdle.

It's pretty obvious that the devs are also annoyed because of whoever snuck that "aren't you obligated to preserve access to these classic games" question in the Q&A for the announcement of closing down sales on the 3DS and WiiU only for it to be quickly removed.

Nintendo Support: Wii U & Nintendo 3DS eShop Discontinuation

web.archive.org

 

[Seven]

It's pretty obvious that the devs are also annoyed because of whoever snuck that "aren't you obligated to preserve access to these classic games" question in the Q&A for the announcement of closing down sales on the 3DS and WiiU only for it to be quickly removed.

Nintendo Support: Wii U & Nintendo 3DS eShop Discontinuation

web.archive.org

I doubt the devs had any hand in writing those support questions; It's understandable being exasperated by the slow updates to NSO, but I agree with @Reinhard Schneider that a lot of posts here are pretty much long-winded lazy dev rhetoric.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I doubt the devs had any hand in writing those support questions; It's understandable being exasperated by the slow updates to NSO, but I agree with @Reinhard Schneider that a lot of posts here are pretty much long-winded lazy dev rhetoric.

I don't get why expecting a multi-billion dollar company to do better with preservation and accessibility of their own content is being treated as "lazy dev rhetoric". I've been explicit, the devs, however short staffed they are, are working on these titles and trying to improve emulation. They were clearly not given enough time for the launch of N64 NSO and have had to play catch up for a year and a half. N64 games are difficult to emulate correctly, especially when you have some online play to consider too. The devs and their work is much respected and they deserve more praise, pay, and deserve to be accredited as often as possible.

It's not the devs. It's Nintendo and its corporate ideology. That's a fundamentally different thing and I don't really believe in backing off of that. Corporations and their greed feed off the efforts of the developers and the workers. Their ideology is the one that takes down the eShop with no recourse. Their ideology and placing profit motives above accessibility is how we get such a fundamentally nonsensical "limited release" for Super Mario 3D All Stars. Their approach is why we look at something like NSO and see it in its current state. Their demands rushed out a N64 NSO before it was ready to immediately profit off of it. Their greed means you're no longer allowed to legally purchase ROMs but must participate in their rental service, for the Expansion Pack which you can only opt into for a full year and nothing less.

NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, and Genesis emulation is in a rock solid place and has been for some time. The developmental commitment to those titles on NSO isn't non-existent, but it's also not the more painstaking optimization of N64. And that said, it's Nintendo's online that also shows us their own advertised online for especially N64 titles is much less functional than it needs to be.

The devs aren't lazy, the corporate structure is greedy, anti-preservation, and anti-consumer in nature. That's a significant and relevant difference that should be fairly criticized at this point.

Again, I don't say this because of just Pokemon Stadium, but it's part of a broader set of ongoing circumstances and decisions that finally makes me no longer feel the need to hold back and make excuses. The devs work with what their given, but it's exceedingly clear they're not given enough.

 

[Smash Kirby]

anti-preservation

Nintendo isn't anti-preservation, they preserve a lot. The gigaleak proved that, they are against having their content in a method that isn't their way.

 

[Phendrift]

I don’t follow patterns with NSO releases that closely so I’m wondering - does Pokémon Stadium release mean we shouldn’t expect anything else? Like do they announce them all at once usually?

I need the odds we get the Oracle games this month - would love to play them on Switch before TOTK. Feels poetic to get the last two mainline games I haven’t played out of the way (and the first two Fujibiyashi made ones at that!).

I don’t want to pull out the 3DS for them, but I will if I have to.

 

[Catalyst]

I don’t follow patterns with NSO releases that closely so I’m wondering - does Pokémon Stadium release mean we shouldn’t expect anything else? Like do they announce them all at once usually?

I need the odds we get the Oracle games this month - would love to play them on Switch before TOTK. Feels poetic to get the last two mainline games I haven’t played out of the way (and the first two Fujibiyashi made ones at that!).

I don’t want to pull out the 3DS for them, but I will if I have to.

It means no more N64 games this month, but it says nothing about Game Boy or any other system. We could still get the Oracles.

 

[Reinhard Schneider]

anti-preservation

I have a lot to say, but i don't have energy to do so, so i'll limit myself to say this:

They go great lenghts not only to preserve their content (and even third party content too), but also the physical experience. The only other company that goes so far to preserve their legacy is SEGA.

Sure, Nintendo is not perfect at it, we've gone through 2 library reboots already and i agree that they should allow us to purchase the games, but aside of that it's the only company that has allowed me to revive the gaming experience of my childhood and teen years as accurately as possible, controllers included.

So i'm sorry, but Nintendo is anti-preservation? It's quite the opposite, and that's a hill i'll happily die on.

 

[MisterSpo]

Preservation isn't the same thing as easy access. Nintendo are great at preservation - they're one of the companies who fund efforts at the University of Kyoto to preserve every game made in Japan - but access is another question entirely.

There's also a fundamental difference between preserving things like source code and assets on the one hand, and making games easy to purchase or rent on the other. The former is like preserving the manuscript of a classic book; many of which are kept preserved in institutions where special access has to be arranged (though archives are now pursuing easier methods of access like digitisation). The latter is like keeping the final text in print and easily available, which isn't the case for many videogames in general (and sure, many books also go out of print and easy circulation).

I don’t follow patterns with NSO releases that closely so I’m wondering - does Pokémon Stadium release mean we shouldn’t expect anything else? Like do they announce them all at once usually?

I need the odds we get the Oracle games this month - would love to play them on Switch before TOTK. Feels poetic to get the last two mainline games I haven’t played out of the way (and the first two Fujibiyashi made ones at that!).

I don’t want to pull out the 3DS for them, but I will if I have to.

Makes it kinda awkward and unpredictable.

GB, NES, SNES and Mega Drive games are announced as they release, so there's currently space for any of those systems in the final 2 weeks of this month, I think. Mega Drive especially feels overdue - it last had an update in December.

GBA and N64 get their update announced one week prior, and if an announcement like that happens, then there's no release the week of the announcement (as far as I can tell). So I think we can already assume that there's no GBA title the week after Pokémon Stadium, because Nintendo would need to announce the GBA title the week that Stadium releases. There might still be a GBA title released in the last week of the month, but that'd need to be announced in the third week of this month, which then cuts out the 2 weeks where we could see updates for GB, NES, SNES, and Mega Drive.

So it looks like a poisoned chalice, currently, because I think we either get N64 and GBA this month, or N64 and Mega Drive and/or GB (given how infrequent NES/SNES updates were in 2022, I'm not expecting a further update there just yet).

 

[Spikeylord]

Preservation isn't the same thing as easy access. Nintendo are great at preservation - they're one of the companies who fund efforts at the University of Kyoto to preserve every game made in Japan - but access is another question entirely.

There's also a fundamental difference between preserving things like source code and assets on the one hand, and making games easy to purchase or rent on the other. The former is like preserving the manuscript of a classic book; many of which are kept preserved in institutions where special access has to be arranged (though archives are now pursuing easier methods of access like digitisation). The latter is like keeping the final text in print and easily available, which isn't the case for many videogames in general (and sure, many books also go out of print and easy circulation).

Makes it kinda awkward and unpredictable.

GB, NES, SNES and Mega Drive games are announced as they release, so there's currently space for any of those systems in the final 2 weeks of this month, I think. Mega Drive especially feels overdue - it last had an update in December.

GBA and N64 get their update announced one week prior, and if an announcement like that happens, then there's no release the week of the announcement (as far as I can tell). So I think we can already assume that there's no GBA title the week after Pokémon Stadium, because Nintendo would need to announce the GBA title the week that Stadium releases. There might still be a GBA title released in the last week of the month, but that'd need to be announced in the third week of this month, which then cuts out the 2 weeks where we could see updates for GB, NES, SNES, and Mega Drive.

So it looks like a poisoned chalice, currently, because I think we either get N64 and GBA this month, or N64 and Mega Drive and/or GB (given how infrequent NES/SNES updates were in 2022, I'm not expecting a further update there just yet).

Eh, I wouldn't say that the "N64 and GBA are announced a week in advance" is really set in stone - here's the list of gaps between trailer and release for all of them so far:

Paper Mario - 7 days
Banjo-Kazooie - 1 day
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 7 days
F-Zero X - 2 days
Mario Golf - 0 days
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards - 7 days
Pokémon Snap - 7 days
Pokémon Puzzle League (West) / Custom Robo 1 & V2 (JP) - 7 days
Wave Race 64 - 3 days
Pilotwings 64 - 6 days
Mario Party 1 & 2 - 12 days
Goldeneye 007 (West) - 2 days
Metroid Fusion - 6 days
Pokémon Stadium - 8 days

Only half of these 14 releases were a week or longer between announce and release (and an 8th one was just short of that at 6 days) - and one of those 7 (the Mario Party double drop) is a unique case anyways because not only was it two seperate games at once, it was also announced in the previous month (only a week or so after Pilotwings 64 released).

So while it's probably still best to err on the pessimistic side and assume they'd use the week long buffer - it is not by any means guaranteed and even if it was a pattern, we've had plenty of patterns broken before (even Pokémon Stadium here breaks a pattern of sticking to the order from the September direct). Even the assumption that nothing else can launch during that buffer isn't neccesarily a given - although so far the only NSO related stuff to happen during one of these buffers was the Mario Party Superstars Tetris 99 Maximus Cup launched the day before Paper Mario on NSO did; so two seperate bits of NSO rather than two sets of titles for the NSO retro service specifically.

----

Also seperaely, here's the first April version of the 12 month rolling schedule version of my NSO graphic (the vertical red line is today):

 

[Brofield]

Anti-preservation or not, the issue remains the same that these games that should be so easily accessible aren't. Hence, the ire with the current state of NSO.

I wouldn't even necessarily subscribe to the lazy dev rhetoric; I earnestly do not believe anyone is actively directing the path of NSO releases. Every announcement comes across like someone drew short straw for the month as to what gets released. The only consistency is the lack of consistency. There is no singular face (or even team) behind the release schedule, or in charge of dictating what games are worked on next. All we really know is NERD worked/is working on the emulators, but I doubt they have any say over which games get added to the service nor in what order.

 

[Barely Able]

It’s up

 

[Leo]

Damn, forgot about this! I'm already in bed but I'll definitely play it tomorrow, can't wait. Nostalgia will hit hard with this one, I haven't touched it since I sold my N64 in 2006 to buy my DS.

 

[DecoReturns]

What are good rental teams to challenge for the title. It’s been a while and can’t remember what we’re the good Pokémon for these things.

 

[Josh5890]

The nostalgia with the opening video and main menu sure gives me the feels. This is probably the one N64 game that I played a lot as a kid, but I haven't touched in close to 20 years. I remember getting upset that I was forced to use the d-pad in this game lol.

BTW, I'm going straight for the gym leaders.

 

[Derachi]

What do they mean by “3D Platformer Battles”

 

[ZephyrPhoenix]

Guess GBA is getting skipped for this month, FeelsBadMan