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Retro Newly translated Super Mario Sunshine interviews with Koizumi, Miyamoto, Tezuka (2002)

Nabbit

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Shmuplations has translated two interviews with the parties responsible for Mario's GameCube outing. There is a wealth of interesting information in here, and a couple bits stuck out to me in particular:

Miyamoto: In the beginning, Dolpic Town just had normal human tourists milling about. However, although this wasn't the Mushroom Kingdom, it still felt weird to have Mario talking to normal-looking people.

The athletic courses (Secret Courses) were something I absolutely wanted to include, since that kind of gameplay is Mario's roots. The perception of a Mario game among players today is that it's all about having a high degree of freedom. Still, I really think there should be a simple, obstacle-based platforming stage like the Secret Course in any Mario game. "I died 200 times, but it was fun!"—that kind of feeling. One thing I somewhat regret, is making it such that you have to clear the stage before you can advance forward. I think we should have allowed people to go the final stage even if they can't beat it.

I want Mario to be a game that all audiences can enjoy. Something that Grandma and Grandpa, Mom and Dad, even little children can easily pick up and play, and right away understand what's fun about it. However, I think Mario Sunshine turned out to be difficult for the average user. It's something I very much regret. I want someone who hasn't played a game in 10+ years to play our game, but I think such a person wouldn't know what's going on in Mario Sunshine.

And this doesn't apply to Mario only—I think it's a situation that video games in general are facing. Other famous franchises, if you take a player who's been away from games for a decade, and sit them down in front of something new… they're going be like, "huh? what's going on?" Mario is supposed to be an easy-to-understand game. Even if it's confusing at first, after playing for a day, you should be able to understand what today's games are all about. In that sense Mario is probably the best vehicle out there today for re-acquainting players with modern gaming. If you can stick with it for 3 days and not give up, I think you'll be able to re-integrate into today's gaming culture.

Tezuka: When Koizumi first showed me the plans for this game, he asked if he could change Mario's clothes. At the time I thought, "It's not really Mario if he's not wearing his traditional outfit…", but I gave the OK for a short-sleeve shirt. We asked a lot of people what they thought, and they said "I could see Mario in a hawaiian shirt, on some southern tropical island." I'm actually looking forward to seeing Mario in different outfits in the future. I think it would be a problem if he was dressed differently for the whole game, or long stretches, but I hope we can see different get-ups for Mario down the road.

These interviews are great reads though, I encourage you to check them out in full:

 
Tezuka: When Koizumi first showed me the plans for this game, he asked if he could change Mario's clothes. At the time I thought, "It's not really Mario if he's not wearing his traditional outfit…", but I gave the OK for a short-sleeve shirt. We asked a lot of people what they thought, and they said "I could see Mario in a hawaiian shirt, on some southern tropical island." I'm actually looking forward to seeing Mario in different outfits in the future. I think it would be a problem if he was dressed differently for the whole game, or long stretches, but I hope we can see different get-ups for Mario down the road.

Well...

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I loved the part where Miyamoto called it his biggest failure and that he regrets getting into the industry because of it.
 
I loved the part where Miyamoto called it his biggest failure and that he regrets getting into the industry because of it.
Haha not exactly but I was surprised he voiced some regrets about it right around the time it came out. It's interesting to see how hard Nintendo pivoted away from especially esoteric and non-linear mainline games following Sunshine and Wind Waker. That pretty much lasted until 2017.
 
Haha not exactly but I was surprised he voiced some regrets about it right around the time it came out. It's interesting to see how hard Nintendo pivoted away from especially esoteric and non-linear mainline games following Sunshine and Wind Waker. That pretty much lasted until 2017.
kinda true. The Gamecubes failure in general really altered the way Nintendo designed games afterwards.
 
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Tezuka: When Koizumi first showed me the plans for this game, he asked if he could change Mario's clothes. At the time I thought, "It's not really Mario if he's not wearing his traditional outfit…", but I gave the OK for a short-sleeve shirt. We asked a lot of people what they thought, and they said "I could see Mario in a hawaiian shirt, on some southern tropical island." I'm actually looking forward to seeing Mario in different outfits in the future. I think it would be a problem if he was dressed differently for the whole game, or long stretches, but I hope we can see different get-ups for Mario down the road.

Well...

maxresdefault.jpg
Not just that, also the part about Mario going to a place with normal humans!
 
The athletic courses (Secret Courses) were something I absolutely wanted to include, since that kind of gameplay is Mario's roots. The perception of a Mario game among players today is that it's all about having a high degree of freedom. Still, I really think there should be a simple, obstacle-based platforming stage like the Secret Course in any Mario game. "I died 200 times, but it was fun!"—that kind of feeling. One thing I somewhat regret, is making it such that you have to clear the stage before you can advance forward. I think we should have allowed people to go the final stage even if they can't beat it.
I hated the Fluddless levels. They were way too hard. They should have been side content, and not things that you have to do to beat the main story mode.
 
I love the Fludless sections, apart from Chuckster hell

The movement in Sunshine is so buttery smooth, I appreciated having parts of the game where you can't just rely on Fludd all the time
 
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My issue with the FLUDDless levels were the visuals were fairly unappealing (abstract shapes floating in a void) and how the slightest mistake would set you to fall and die and reset all your progress. They definitely feel like some of the biggest victims of the game being rushed, just slapping together assets to make platforming challenges that are completely disconnected from the rest of the setting.
 
Haha not exactly but I was surprised he voiced some regrets about it right around the time it came out. It's interesting to see how hard Nintendo pivoted away from especially esoteric and non-linear mainline games following Sunshine and Wind Waker. That pretty much lasted until 2017.
WW is more linear than oot/mm
 
This interview basically reconfirms that Nintendo even back then knew how different Mario 64 and Sunshine were from old Mario games. Like Miyamoto even says it, you can find multiple paths to the objective, using Mario's movements mechanics and that is part of the fun. So when they made Odyssey it was to callback to these two games specifically and it wasn't some retcon like some people had assumed. Galaxy was always a change in direction for the 3D series

I also found it interesting how he said that Mario games in general are about the player getting better as they play and seeing their skill improve at the game, while Zelda games weren't about that but were more about just exploring the world in a more leisurely phase. Which explains a lot about how both of these series evolved over the years.
 
This interview basically reconfirms that Nintendo even back then knew how different Mario 64 and Sunshine were from old Mario games. Like Miyamoto even says it, you can find multiple paths to the objective, using Mario's movements mechanics and that is part of the fun. So when they made Odyssey it was to callback to these two games specifically and it wasn't some retcon like some people had assumed. Galaxy was always a change in direction for the 3D series

I also found it interesting how he said that Mario games in general are about the player getting better as they play and seeing their skill improve at the game, while Zelda games weren't about that but were more about just exploring the world in a more leisurely phase. Which explains a lot about how both of these series evolved over the years.
I mean it is quite arrogant that folks think they know more then the creators of the games. Which is basically a given for gaming forums unfortunately
 
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WW is more linear than oot/mm
It definitely is, but the game has a more expansive and (at the time) vast open world that the player has to navigate with free exploration, which we saw decreased some in TP and decreased further in SS.
 
This interview basically reconfirms that Nintendo even back then knew how different Mario 64 and Sunshine were from old Mario games. Like Miyamoto even says it, you can find multiple paths to the objective, using Mario's movements mechanics and that is part of the fun. So when they made Odyssey it was to callback to these two games specifically and it wasn't some retcon like some people had assumed. Galaxy was always a change in direction for the 3D series

I also found it interesting how he said that Mario games in general are about the player getting better as they play and seeing their skill improve at the game, while Zelda games weren't about that but were more about just exploring the world in a more leisurely phase. Which explains a lot about how both of these series evolved over the years.
I just realized how much I love Nintendo
 
I was shocked at the part where miyamoto reveals sunshine is nintendo's biggest failure and he regreted joining them because of that game
honestly... I wasn't shocked at all. Reading the interview I just wondered when that part will come up. I was shocked it wasn't Miyamoto's opening statement before the interviewer even began to ask questions.
 
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Just read the interview in full. It's nice to see a lot of developer thoughts on Sunshine line up with my own. The game has great movement and open levels to take advantage of that and offer multiple solutions to the goal while supplementing that with the more linear secret levels. But it didn't come fully together - the difficulty wasn't scaled the best and the progression was too linear. I enjoy most of the secret levels now, but as a kid they were extremely difficult. Having to play through all of them, let alone having to play through a set series of missions to get to the ending with no flexibility available there at all, was a mistake. The 64 style progression works a lot better for the more open style.

Super Mario Odyssey represents not just a return to the open style, with its broader levels and expansive move set, but also a game that reflects the lessons learned by Sunshine's rocky points and the four linear 3D games that followed. It still has you go to every level, but you only have to do a few missions. Missions are abundant with many easier objectives, letting beginners still beat the game while giving more advanced players both the 500 moon goal to get to the bonus final level and the 880 100% goal. There's plenty of bonus linear challenge areas the players can choose to do at their leisure, structured more like the linear levels of 3D Land and World. Even the common "Too Many (easy) Moons" complaint comes into play here - having the sheer number of moons not locked by difficulty lets any player finish the game, and I can appreciate that (not to mention the ADHD euphoria of getting More Moons). It comes together so well in my opinion, I adore Odyssey.
 
Just read the interview in full. It's nice to see a lot of developer thoughts on Sunshine line up with my own. The game has great movement and open levels to take advantage of that and offer multiple solutions to the goal while supplementing that with the more linear secret levels. But it didn't come fully together - the difficulty wasn't scaled the best and the progression was too linear. I enjoy most of the secret levels now, but as a kid they were extremely difficult. Having to play through all of them, let alone having to play through a set series of missions to get to the ending with no flexibility available there at all, was a mistake. The 64 style progression works a lot better for the more open style.

Super Mario Odyssey represents not just a return to the open style, with its broader levels and expansive move set, but also a game that reflects the lessons learned by Sunshine's rocky points and the four linear 3D games that followed. It still has you go to every level, but you only have to do a few missions. Missions are abundant with many easier objectives, letting beginners still beat the game while giving more advanced players both the 500 moon goal to get to the bonus final level and the 880 100% goal. There's plenty of bonus linear challenge areas the players can choose to do at their leisure, structured more like the linear levels of 3D Land and World. Even the common "Too Many (easy) Moons" complaint comes into play here - having the sheer number of moons not locked by difficulty lets any player finish the game, and I can appreciate that (not to mention the ADHD euphoria of getting More Moons). It comes together so well in my opinion, I adore Odyssey.
You fantastically summed up why I absolutely love Odyssey.
 
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I was shocked at the part where miyamoto reveals sunshine is nintendo's biggest failure and he regreted joining them because of that game
Where exactly are you getting this from, or is this some sort of joke going over my head
 
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