Discussion New BOTW2 Mechanics Detailed in Patent Applications

[Skittzo]

This is like, actually extremely major news. Somehow nobody is talking about it here or on twitter.

New Nintendo patent unveils more about Zelda: BOTW 2 gameplay

The free fall system for example is much more developed than we think.

www.gamereactor.eu

The gist is, three patent applications were published each of which details a mechanic teased in previously seen BOTW2 footage, so it's extremely likely these patents will detail how those mechanics work in the game.

1) Traversal through terrain

As noted we saw this in the trailer at E3. What we didn't know is that this was not a scripted spot, but an actual mechanic that can be used at will to pass through any chunk of terrain above you. There are restrictions though:

• Cannot be used if the upper surface is slanted beyond a set angle (i.e. 30 degree)
• Cannot be used if the lower surface is slanted beyond a set angle or two overlapping surfaces exist above
• Cannot be used if lower surface of terrain is higher than the ability threshold
• Cannot be used if Link (or his collision box) can't fit into the open area above the terrain
• Cannot be used if the lower surface of the terrain is protected, i.e. by spikes
• If an upper surface is not suitable and there is another suitable upper surface above, the first one will be bypassed

2) Rewind function

Again this is something we saw in the E3 trailer:

It was briefily shown at 0:43-0:46 in the E3 trailer (the start time should be tagged in the video below)

This mechanic appears to be fairly self explanatory- it will be used like stasis to focus on one object and that object will then rewind its movement exactly opposite to the movement it previously underwent in the allotted time period (i.e. 20 seconds). The patent application didn't really have much new, except I did find one interesting thing:

Here, examples of transitionable or changeable states of the movable object OBJm include damage, burning, electricity resistance, leakage, freezing, and disappearance, depending on the material of the object. In the return movement, such transitionable states are not caused to return to a previous state. Even during the return movement, the transition process of changing a state is performed irrespective of previous states.

This indicates that only the position will be changed by rewinding the object. So, if an enemy rolls a barrel towards you, you can then set it on fire and rewind it back up the hill to them, only now it's on fire so they'll take fire damage. The amount of mind-bending puzzles possible with changing a state but rewinding the position/movement of an object is staggering.


3) Aerial Bow Combat

Now, this is something we haven't actually seen yet in any footage, so it's not guaranteed to be in. However, considering it follows the same format and timing (and inventorship) as the other patent applications I think it's safe to say this is also in the game.

It's relatively self explanatory. It appears that Link will be able to trade his paraglider for his bow and shoot at stuff at varying angles while free-falling. This includes changes in pose/animation as indicated in the image above and also appears to have changes in camera positioning depending on where he's aiming. Furthermore there are different states of "falling" described, each with their own pose:

• normal falling
• low-velocity falling
• diving falling
• backward falling
• high-velocity falling

It appears (based on a brief reading of the description) that the player will be able to control link to enter into any one of those states depending on Link's mid-air orientation. Meaning, the falling/gliding mechanics look to be expanded greatly in this game.




There's a lot more in the patent publications that I haven't gotten to yet since I don't have enough time to read them all, so feel free to post more tidbits you find and discuss!

 

[YolkFolk]

Can’t wait for the falling through the air boss fight.

 

[Belinda Blumenthal]

Patenting gameplay concepts still sucks.

 

[Skittzo]

Patenting gameplay concepts still sucks.

You're very right.

Still, seeing how exactly these mechanics work from a design perspective is always interesting. And hey, maybe these won't get granted.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I should have patented the jump move

 

[HockeyBird]

"All open world games have climbing mechanics and hang gliders nowadays. What is BOTW 2 gonna do to make it special?"

 

[Hosermess]

T


3) Aerial Bow Combat


Now, this is something we haven't actually seen yet in any footage, so it's not guaranteed to be in. However, considering it follows the same format and timing (and inventorship) as the other patent applications I think it's safe to say this is also in the game.

Hm, while the bow wasn't in the trailer, the fact that in the trailer the first time you see Link he was falling through the sky, and what's become the default image of the trailer is exactly that, it makes sense that it would play a large part in the game. So I feel safe in assuming it's in there.

But yeah, patenting this stuff just seems odd.

 

[Skittzo]

Hm, while the bow wasn't in the trailer, the fact that the trailer started out with Link falling through the sky, and what's become the default image of the trailer is exactly that, it makes sense that it would play a large part in the game. So I feel safe in assuming it's in there.

But yeah, patenting this stuff just seems odd.

Yeah I'm kinda curious if the "aerial acrobatics" mentioned might be the big hook this game has which is why they couldn't yet reveal the title. Maybe something like "The Legend of Zelda: Flight of the Wild" or something

 

[MisterSpo]

This is great news. One of the things I hoped for in Breath of the Wild 2 were more dynamic possibilities for basic traversal and movement and these patents indicates that's a big focus.

 

[Yavga]

This is the first time I heard of gameplay patents, so if I actually imagine and implement my own invented mechanic which is similar to this I could get sued by Nintendo?
feels pathetic imo and stiffles creativity all over.

The mechanics sound fun though, can't wait for LoZ: Patent on the Wild

 

[Hosermess]

Yeah I'm kinda curious if the "aerial acrobatics" mentioned might be the big hook this game has which is why they couldn't yet reveal the title. Maybe something like "The Legend of Zelda: Flight of the Wild" or something

Skyward Bow

 

[Skittzo]

This is the first time I heard of gameplay patents, so if I actually imagine and implement my own invented mechanic which is similar to this I could get sued by Nintendo?
feels pathetic imo and stiffles creativity all over.

Not yet because these patents haven't been granted yet. They're still just applications.


But yes, gameplay and software patents in general suck. The original purpose of patents was to share techniques and breakthroughs to help drive further innovation. This still works for physical/mechanical/chemical inventions that aren't immediately and obviously reverse engineerable. But software patents especially like these are extremely easy for anyone to replicate without this in depth discussion of how they work, so they're entirely unnecessary and bad for innovation.

 

[Deleted member 594]

This is the first time I heard of gameplay patents, so if I actually imagine and implement my own invented mechanic which is similar to this I could get sued by Nintendo?
feels pathetic imo and stiffles creativity all over.

The mechanics sound fun though, can't wait for LoZ: Patent on the Wild

Gameplay patents have been around for a long time and are more common than you think. I agree that they're scummy and inherently anti-competitive.

On the ideas themselves, this is interesting, date I say, brilliant. Physic based mechanics are very strong and innovative way to expand this sequel.

 

[sanstea]

Yeah, love this. Zelda never disappoints in introducing new and exciting major gameplay additions with each new installment.

 

[Marizza Pia Spiritto]

This is the first time I heard of gameplay patents, so if I actually imagine and implement my own invented mechanic which is similar to this I could get sued by Nintendo?
feels pathetic imo and stiffles creativity all over.

The mechanics sound fun though, can't wait for LoZ: Patent on the Wild

Like, Nintendo very infamously patented Eternal Darkness' Sanity Meter, an early 2000s GC game. But now you can use the concept freely because they gave up on it recently. So, good news. Why no one is using it though

 

[Skittzo]

Like, Nintendo very infamously patented Eternal Darkness' Sanity Meter, an early 2000s GC game. But now you can use the concept freely because they gave up on it recently. So, good news. Why no one is using it though

Well they didn't give up on it, patents expire 20 years after the filing date.

 

[manfromthedam]

Looks like, whatever they put in their coffee machine at the Zelda team, still works.

It's so weird, as a grownass 33 yo manfromthedam, who's only ever got into Zelda because of BotW, to be fawning over the Zelda folks' aesthetic and design sensibilities. It's obvious that their current direction isn't a "stroke of genius", but culminates from a series of very conscious & considered decisions.

 

[MisterSpo]

Maybe they're saving diving and swimming mechanics for Breath of the Wild 3, Seas Waves of the Wild.

internal panic

 

[ToniC139]

This is the first time I heard of gameplay patents, so if I actually imagine and implement my own invented mechanic which is similar to this I could get sued by Nintendo?
feels pathetic imo and stiffles creativity all over.

The mechanics sound fun though, can't wait for LoZ: Patent on the Wild

I think it's only if you implement literally what they have patented here. You can implement similar things you just can't have it so it's exactly the same

 

[Dragoncaine]

This is a megaton for me. Now I'm having unrealistic expectations of the hookshot being in the game so I can link to multiple enemies midair and shoot the shit out of them lol

 

[Deleted member 2139]

This discussion about „scummy business practices“ is completely wrong. They are patenting the implementation of the feature and not the feature itself. They aren’t patenting the free falling mechanic, but the way they achieved to program it. Others can make a similar feature but aren’t allowed to copy the technical approach.

Its like baking a cake: they aren’t patenting the cake itself, but the recipe which they developed after working hard for years. You can still make the cake but aren’t allowed to use the exact same recipe 1:1. I hope that makes sense

 

[Deleted member 2139]

And i wanted to add that one patent is actually very specific and includes the button mapping. If the button mapping of a similar feature is different, then i guess they aren’t infringing the patent.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Funnily MCVUK had an article about video game patents just last month if people are interested in that side of the discussion:

The Orcish Patent: How do video game patents work, and should you be protecting your ideas? - MCV/DEVELOP

The Nemesis system has prompted a debate about patenting video game mechanics. We talk to patent law experts to find out more about the practice.

www.mcvuk.com

 

[Skittzo]

This discussion about „scummy business practices“ is completely wrong. They are patenting the implementation of the feature and not the feature itself. They aren’t patenting the free falling mechanic, but the way they achieved to program it. Others can make a similar feature but aren’t allowed to copy the technical approach.

Its like baking a cake: they aren’t patenting the cake itself, but the recipe which they developed after working hard for years. You can still make the cake but aren’t allowed to use the exact same recipe 1:1. I hope that makes sense

For normal patents that require specific ingredients (like specific mechanical objects or elements) this is true. However for software patents like this one, this is not the case.

For example, here is claim 1 of the terrain phasing application:

A non-transitory computer-readable storage medium having stored therein a game program to be executed by a processor in an information processing apparatus, the program causing the processor to execute:
performing a normal movement control including at least a control of, in a virtual space including at least a player character and a terrain object, moving the player character on the terrain object, based on an operation input performed by a player; and
performing a special movement control of moving the player character to a destination, based on an operation input performed by the player, if it is at least satisfied that the terrain object serving as a ceiling is present above the player character and that the destination, on the terrain object, at which the player character is placeable is present above the ceiling located above the player character.

If your game does that, regardless of how exactly it is programmed, and this application gets granted Nintendo could indeed sue you for infringement.

 

[DumbDonkey]

Nintendo still has the Eternal Darkness sanity system patent right? Imagine if they incorporated that into a dungeon in BotW 2

 

[Skittzo]

Nintendo still has the Eternal Darkness sanity system patent right? Imagine if they incorporated that into a dungeon in BotW 2

Nope, that patent expired earlier this year.

Of course that doesn't mean they can't use it, it just means they can't sue other people who use it now.

 

[Deleted member 2139]

For normal patents that require specific ingredients (like specific mechanical objects or elements) this is true. However for software patents like this one, this is not the case.

For example, here is claim 1 of the terrain phasing application:



If your game does that, regardless of how exactly it is programmed, and this application gets granted Nintendo could indeed sue you for infringement.

Hmm i didn’t see that one. Thanks for sharing that information.

But i guess as long as the terrain isn’t a ceiling above the character, the feature could be used the same way to go through the floor instead without infringing the patent, right?

 

[Skittzo]

Hmm i didn’t see that one. Thanks for sharing that information.

But i guess as long as the terrain isn’t a ceiling above the character, the feature could be used the same way to go through the floor instead without infringing the patent, right?

Yeah assuming this gets granted in this form, which I doubt will happen.



Anyway I kinda wanna speculate on how the whole sky world thing will work with our new info. Do we think "sky world" will be a completely separate zone/instance or will you be occasionally free-falling from sky world to regular Hyrule? If so how do you get back up? The terrain phasing thing likely doesn't have a huge range that can get you way up into the sky from the ground.

And how does this jive with Link having a different outfit and hair in sky world?

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Yeah assuming this gets granted in this form, which I doubt will happen.



Anyway I kinda wanna speculate on how the whole sky world thing will work with our new info. Do we think "sky world" will be a completely separate zone/instance or will you be occasionally free-falling from sky world to regular Hyrule? If so how do you get back up? The terrain phasing thing likely doesn't have a huge range that can get you way up into the sky from the ground.

And how does this jive with Link having a different outfit and hair in sky world?

Can't be a separate world because of Bloober Team's dual world patent

 

[Skittzo]

Can't be a separate world because of Bloober Team's dual world patent

Damn this is gonna be the patent joke thread isn't it. Maybe I should revive the other BOTW2 speculation thread.

EDIT: nevermind it had been revived already.

 

[Kongo B]

My curiosity about how this game will turn out just keeps skyrocketing

Like, Nintendo very infamously patented Eternal Darkness' Sanity Meter, an early 2000s GC game. But now you can use the concept freely because they gave up on it recently. So, good news. Why no one is using it though

Darkest Dungeon is the closest thing to it I can think of

 

[DarkField]

I get why they patent their mechanics, they don't want a genshin impact 2 without some more effort from the developer, but... I suppose the end result of the application of the mechanic in-game was a big headache, so just to let it loose in to world and let everybody use it as if it was some effortless thought, is not fair.

 

[HockeyBird]

Yeah assuming this gets granted in this form, which I doubt will happen.



Anyway I kinda wanna speculate on how the whole sky world thing will work with our new info. Do we think "sky world" will be a completely separate zone/instance or will you be occasionally free-falling from sky world to regular Hyrule? If so how do you get back up? The terrain phasing thing likely doesn't have a huge range that can get you way up into the sky from the ground.

And how does this jive with Link having a different outfit and hair in sky world?

I don't Link will have a different outfit and hair just for the sky world. I think they just did that in the trailer to distinguish between the familiar stuff and brand new stuff. New area, new outfit. Old area, old outfit.

But how Link gets to the sky world is the big mystery. In many of the shots in the trailer, the sky islands aren't floating above Hyrule. But when he is in the sky, we can clearly see Hyrule below. So either the islands show up at some point in the story or the floating islands exist in "different" Hyrule than the one we are familiar with.

 

[TonyBaduy]

I wonder if them patenting them also means they are close to showcasing them in a trailer, beyond the teases we got in the last one? Though I feel 50% sure the next trailer will involve the Switch Succ, which according to the leaks is probably geared to release next year... it all depends on how soon or late the next trailer is shown. Maybe if we get a new trailer by February we won't get any Succ upgrades in it, but if it was in May, we could.

 

[astrogamer]

There was a couple patents for a mobile title recently so they just be appearing earlier than intended since the patents do not apply to any released Nintendo mobile title.

 

[ILikeFeet]

the legend of zelda: where we droppin boys?

 

[Skittzo]

There was a couple patents for a mobile title recently so they just be appearing earlier than intended since the patents do not apply to any released Nintendo mobile title.

I'm guessing the new leadership is pushing them to patent more crap in general.

 

[GrislyRaccoon]

Can’t wait for the falling through the air boss fight.

YESSSSSSS CANT WAIT!!!

 

[ika]

New trailer soon, please. I need that bad taste the E3 teaser left on my mouth to go away already.

 

[GrislyRaccoon]

New trailer soon, please. I need that bad taste the E3 teaser left on my mouth to go away already.

was it a bad taste or more of a blue balls? LOL

 

[RochHoch]

First The World and now Bites za Dusto with that rewind ability

For BOTW3, Link's gonna have to figure out how King Crimson works

 

[karmitt]

very curious how the rewind feature will work. it sounds ambitious for a game as dynamic and unscripted as BotW. certainly it wouldn’t be used to rewind anything, so I’d wonder what the delineation would be.

 

[Sander RX]

First The World and now Bites za Dusto with that rewind ability

For BOTW3, Link's gonna have to figure out how King Crimson works

Accelerating the slow as fuck raft with MADE IN HEAVEN

 

[Skittzo]

very curious how the rewind feature will work. it sounds ambitious for a game as dynamic and unscripted as BotW. certainly it wouldn’t be used to rewind anything, so I’d wonder what the delineation would be.

Speaking hypothetically it should actually be relatively simple. All you'd need to know is the objects motion path over the last X amount of frames, so that data would need to be stored for up to X frames for each object.

Once it's in motion during the rewind phase it'll likely act like any normal object would with respect to rolling into enemies/structures and causing damage.

 

[Kevin]

With core gameplay mechanics starting to get leaked via patents, I'm hoping we finally see the game soon. It's been such a long wait. I hope it will be something ambitious and special. Something that tops the original BOTW in every conceivable way.

 

[undefined]

Oof I didn't see the typo in my post before it was quoted

Btw dunno if it was discussed in other threads, but these patents were not "leaked" right? Weren't them just regularly published? Maybe what they've shown was enough to lose the private status? Kinda weird timing

 

[Phendrift]

It’s crazy how with just these three mechanics, the possibilities for puzzles and movement SKYROCKETS even further than the already varied BOTW had

 

[ILikeFeet]

Oof I didn't see the typo in my post before it was quoted

Btw dunno if it was discussed in other threads, but these patents were not "leaked" right? Weren't them just regularly published? Maybe what they've shown was enough to lose the private status? Kinda weird timing

they were published regularly. if Nintendo wanted these hidden, they would have filed for it

 

[Lord Azrael]

What? Patenting these kinds of gameplay mechanics? So weird

 

[Skittzo]

Oof I didn't see the typo in my post before it was quoted

Btw dunno if it was discussed in other threads, but these patents were not "leaked" right? Weren't them just regularly published? Maybe what they've shown was enough to lose the private status? Kinda weird timing

They were published by WIPO but the corresponding USPTO applications appear to not have been published yet. That could be due to a non-publication request (which would beg the question why didn't that go into effect for the WIPO ones) or it could be that the USPTO simply hasn't gotten around to publishing these yet.

Usually when Nintendo patents something they intend to use, i.e. the Switch itself, they file non-publication requests with every relevant entity.