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Pre-Release Metroid Prime 4: Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Zeal543 said:
It's not that easy, the metroid prime games are known more for their visual flair than they are for running at 60FPS. The switch is in a position where it can't really do both, especially not for a major 3D game. I would prefer if the visual fidelity dropped for 60FPS (or for the next nintendo system to have a 60FPS option without having to sacrifice visuals) but realistically Nintendo/Retro isn't going to go for frame rate over visuals for prime 4
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I don't agree with this because it's only in relation to some other more impressive game. Metroid Prime 1 and 2 came out in a time where Gamecube was among the more powerful systems on the market. everything it's been compared to were either equally as good, better because of 30fps, or weaker because of multiplatform stuff (namely PS2).

we're never going to reach that high again, but to say that they can't achieve an impressive looking title at 60fps, well it's just not to your tastes then. in a world were people are questioning if Pikmin 4 was even switch footage, I think people's impression of "switch graphics" have been greatly skewed by more powerful (and now even more powerful) systems
 
Mr Doggo said:
metroid should prioritize visuals. Unless prime 4 is going doom levels its not the kinda game that requires 60fps. On gc it was known as one of the most gorgeous games in the gen, and on switch its going to need all the textures it can get lol
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I don't know that we can expect "Doom levels" of action, or gameplay fluidity, considering the Prime games are naturally slower, and more methodical. Nonetheless, I do fully expect and desire a snappier, more modern gameplay framework, as I don't believe they're simply going to ignore all these years of strides made by first-person shooters / action games, on that front.

Samus is one of the best playable protagonists out there, in terms of serving as a solid foundation for any kind of gameplay experience a developer could seek to implement. Her kit is diverse, and unique. Entirely new abilities make perfect sense, considering the gradual power escalation the series creates, as well as the inherently modular nature of the Power Suit. Historically, she's been a slow tank (Prime), an acrobatic superhero (Dread), and everything in-between. Brilliantly versatile character. It all depends on what the developers are seeking to achieve, and I'm very excited to see where Retro settles. There's certainly a delicate balance to strike between respecting Metroid's classic series identity, and incorporating modern elements, as to not create a stale experience.
 
Zeal543 said:
It's not that easy, the metroid prime games are known more for their visual flair than they are for running at 60FPS. The switch is in a position where it can't really do both, especially not for a major 3D game. I would prefer if the visual fidelity dropped for 60FPS (or for the next nintendo system to have a 60FPS option without having to sacrifice visuals) but realistically Nintendo/Retro isn't going to go for frame rate over visuals for prime 4
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60FPS effects gameplay as much as it does visuals. I think Retro understands this, and it's one of the reasons they have opted for 60 in all of their games.
 
Pennington said:
I think we're due for a return to desaturated brown serious mature realistic gritty graphics. Seriously, I would welcome something a little less hyperactive.
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Samus on a blando desert planet, like it's Star Wars. That shiet would have me retreating into the hedge like Homer Simpson.
 
Agon Wastes was enough bland desert for me. But I did think that a cool scenario to start Metroid Prime 4 would have Samus investigating a crashed spaceship in the middle of an icy snowstorm. Imagine making out the red of a faintly pulsing SOS beacon amidst a white barrage of icy gusts, with the wind howling and disorienting Samus. She locates the source of the distress signal only to find something terrible has happened onboard.
 
Pennington said:
I think we're due for a return to desaturated brown serious mature realistic gritty graphics. Seriously, I would welcome something a little less hyperactive.
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i thought your text was another ironic one. Its actually refreshing to see that. If it makes you happy, mp4's art director has made a lot of games with a more grounded artstyle.
 
Pennington said:
Agon Wastes was enough bland desert for me. But I did think that a cool scenario to start Metroid Prime 4 would have Samus investigating a crashed spaceship in the middle of an icy snowstorm.
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Funny you mention that, I hypothesize that prime 4 takes place on cylosis.
 
I’m just so ready to see the game and all the ideas retro came up with. This is continuing a series which ended in 2008.

Maybe we’ll get some kind of nod at the beginning of Metroid Prime making its grand return. Could be an Easter egg or somethjng.
 
Mr Doggo said:
i thought your text was another ironic one. Its actually refreshing to see that. If it makes you happy, mp4's art director has made a lot of games with a more grounded artstyle.
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Yeah, honestly I thought he was an odd choice for their art director based on what he made in the past. He did work on Mirror's Edge: Catalyst as well though, which was quite full of colour and style. Honestly though, the art is one thing I'm not worried about at all for this game. Retro's art team has always been brilliant, and they still have quite a few artists there that worked on the Prime games.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
Yeah, honestly I thought he was an odd choice for their art director based on what he made in the past. He did work on Mirror's Edge: Catalyst as well though, which was quite full of colour and style. Honestly though, the art is one thing I'm not worried about at all for this game. Retro's art team has always been brilliant, and they still have quite a few artists there that worked on the Prime games.
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Ok two things

Im sure someone that can be art director of an aaa game is skilled enough for several artstyles. So it doesnt necessarily means mp4 will be a more realistic looking game.

Now, it def could mean mp4 IS going to be a more realistic, grounded game. Will be interesting to see.
 
Mr Doggo said:
Ok two things

Im sure someone that can be art director of an aaa game is skilled enough for several artstyles. So it doesnt necessarily means mp4 will be a more realistic looking game.

Now, it def could mean mp4 IS going to be a more realistic, grounded game. Will be interesting to see.
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Yeah, for sure, that's why I brought up Catalyst. I seriously doubt they're going to to do anything too grounded... Metroid is weird alien sci-fi. I'd love to see them go as wild as possible with visual design, all while maintaining the cohesiveness and environmental storytelling that Retro is known for.
 
Pennington said:
I think we're due for a return to desaturated brown serious mature realistic gritty graphics. Seriously, I would welcome something a little less hyperactive.
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Dread was hurt by its monotone design. One of the few failings of the game. I expect it was partly budgetary issue (easier to reuse textures) but I think Metroid-style games above pretty much any other genre benefit from discrete, distinct environments - just to help players tell where they are. The Metroid series has proven over and over again that you can create a solemn, mysterious atmosphere with clown vomit colour schemes and I want them to return to that.
 
beaglor said:
Dread was hurt by its monotone design. One of the few failings of the game. I expect it was partly budgetary issue (easier to reuse textures) but I think Metroid-style games above pretty much any other genre benefit from discrete, distinct environments - just to help players tell where they are. The Metroid series has proven over and over again that you can create a solemn, mysterious atmosphere with clown vomit colour schemes and I want them to return to that.
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Yeah, other than Ghavoran and Burenia, the game was quite drab in terms of it's environments. Samus Returns looked pretty bland as well most of the time. It's especially disappointing because I feel like the Lords of Shadow games had some pretty nice art.
 
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Mr Doggo said:
i thought your text was another ironic one. Its actually refreshing to see that. If it makes you happy, mp4's art director has made a lot of games with a more grounded artstyle.
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Just an aside, on Famiboards I generally try to contribute positive stuff that attempts to move conversations forwards which means I go for serious and honest opinions. I think ironic posts and the like just clog up what could be great discussions.
 
Zeal543 said:
It's not that easy, the metroid prime games are known more for their visual flair than they are for running at 60FPS. The switch is in a position where it can't really do both, especially not for a major 3D game. I would prefer if the visual fidelity dropped for 60FPS (or for the next nintendo system to have a 60FPS option without having to sacrifice visuals) but realistically Nintendo/Retro isn't going to go for frame rate over visuals for prime 4
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Super Mario Odyssey is one of the best looking Switch games and it's 60FPS.
Bayonetta 3 has some pretty stunning areas too. Luigi's Mansion 3 is the best looking Switch game and it's 30FPS, but Mario Strikers shares a lot of its tech, texture, poly and animation work and it's 60.
It doesn't have to be "30 FPS stunning or 60 FPS ugly" "rule". Also it's a game that will be cooking for like 6 years when it comes. And will come right after a ground up remaster of the first game being 60FPS. I don't think they'll not balance things.

Also if it ends up being 30FPS... It's still totally okay I guess? We've been totally used to most visually impressive games and almost all open world games being 30FPS during the 7 years of PS4/XBO. I mean Astral Chain is an action game and it's 30FPS but you can't even notice that most of the time.

I still think it'll be 60 and will be stunning just like Super Mario Odyssey and Metroid Dread were.
 
Marce-chan said:
Super Mario Odyssey is one of the best looking Switch games and it's 60FPS.
Bayonetta 3 has some pretty stunning areas too. Luigi's Mansion 3 is the best looking Switch game and it's 30FPS, but Mario Strikers shares a lot of its tech, texture, poly and animation work and it's 60.
It doesn't have to be "30 FPS stunning or 60 FPS ugly" "rule". Also it's a game that will be cooking for like 6 years when it comes. And will come right after a ground up remaster of the first game being 60FPS. I don't think they'll not balance things.

Also if it ends up being 30FPS... It's still totally okay I guess? We've been totally used to most visually impressive games and almost all open world games being 30FPS during the 7 years of PS4/XBO. I mean Astral Chain is an action game and it's 30FPS but you can't even notice that most of the time.

I still think it'll be 60 and will be stunning just like Super Mario Odyssey and Metroid Dread were.
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Having low visual fidelity doesn't mean a game will look bad, but it won't be technically impressive. Also heavily disagreed with astral chain, it was very noticeable for the entire game.
 
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Kevin360 said:
I will never forgive Nintendo for the false hope they instilled in June 2017.

(Dread was nice, but as I wait for whatever this famed MP1 remake is, I'm still holding grudges.)
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It sucks for sure, but they did the right thing I think. If they hadn't announced MP4 in 2017, they may not have felt an obligation to actually release it when they're realized it wasn't turning out well. And if the game sucked, then there was no better thing they could have done than scrap it and restart with Retro. We don't want a rushed game, but I do wish they'd update us on the development soon, we're 3 years and 9 months since the restart.

I also find it's better to pretend rumored Nintendo projects don't exist until they're actually announced.
 
Zeal543 said:
This is my biggest wish for prime 4, that it's not developed for switch hardware
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i think that would be extremely disrespectful to the switch owners who waited a whole gen for the game. Cross-gen? Yes sure, a must even. A switch 2 exclusive? yeah no.
Kevin360 said:
I will never forgive Nintendo for the false hope they instilled in June 2017.

(Dread was nice, but as I wait for whatever this famed MP1 remake is, I'm still holding grudges.)
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Everything would be so much worse if it wasnt revealed in 2017. SR obviously wouldn't have given people a lot of hope as it was announced in a treehouse, and dread would have been cool but it wouldn't get the same reactions.
 
broken-record-timothy-jeffers.jpg
 
Mr Doggo said:
i think that would be extremely disrespectful to the switch owners who waited a whole gen for the game. Cross-gen? Yes sure, a must even. A switch 2 exclusive? yeah no.
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I specifically bought a switch in 2017 because of the metroid prime 4 reveal (alongside xenoblade 2), I would not be disrespected at all if a followup to one of the most grandiose trilogies in gaming wasn't straddled down by the abhorrent hardware of the switch.
 
Zeal543 said:
This is my biggest wish for prime 4, that it's not developed for switch hardware
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Having moved to a 3090 and seen the light with 4K HDR 60FPS+ gaming (RDR2/CP/MSFS etc.), I am finding it challenging to still enjoy playing games on Switch. HDR would do so much for amplifying Nintendo's incredible style, and 4K would make everything look like a Pixar film.

Zeal543 said:
I specifically bought a switch in 2017 because of the metroid prime 4 reveal (alongside xenoblade 2), I would not be disrespected at all if a followup to one of the most grandiose trilogies in gaming wasn't straddled down by the abhorrent hardware of the switch.
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Exactly this. Enough with outdated hardware holding back a developer's creative vision to deliver a high-performance, grandiose gaming experience.
 
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kaya bunji said:
Having moved to a 3090 and seen the light with 4K HDR 60FPS+ gaming (RDR2/CP/MSFS etc.), I am finding it challenging to still enjoy playing games on Switch. HDR would do so much for amplifying Nintendo's incredible style, and 4K would make everything look like a Pixar film.
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I think i dont want nintendo's games coming washed out like some of pixar's latest efforts... cough cough the buzz film cough cough

Zeal543 said:
I specifically bought a switch in 2017 because of the metroid prime 4 reveal (alongside xenoblade 2), I would not be disrespected at all if a followup to one of the most grandiose trilogies in gaming wasn't straddled down by the abhorrent hardware of the switch.
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I understand the feeling but i am quite divided on it. On one side yeah maybe it would allow designs and visuals that the switch simply cannot grasp.

In the other... idk, even i would feel cheapened out by that.
 
If they are smart enough, software and hardware wise, there wont be issues in having it for bith Switch and DlsSwitch
 
AAA game development takes a long time. In January of 2023, we'll have reached 4 years since Nintendo's announcement of the game's rebooted development under Retro. By the time this game does release, it'll likely have been 5 years since that announcement, minimum. The Switch successor will surely be out by then, and as much as I'd like Prime 4 to have been developed with future hardware in mind this entire time, I don't think that's likely, nor a reasonable expectation to have. It won't be exclusive to the new hardware, because they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the already existing, massive Switch install base (especially not for a niche franchise like Metroid).

I'd love to be wrong. Not out of a will to deprive Switch owners of the compelling experience we're sure to receive, obviously, but rather, out of a strong desire to see the game be as good as it can possibly be, with the minimum level of compromise. I figure it's not just about graphics and framerate, but also the size of the levels, the complexity of the AI, the number of enemies that can be onscreen at once, and so on. I do recall some veteran Retro devs expressing disappointment with the Wii, and its relatively small leap in power from the GameCube, back when they were in the middle of developing Prime 3, so I have to wonder to what extent the current devs working there feel constrained by what's possible on the Switch's modest hardware.

Hopefully this goes without saying, but I'm not worried either way, even if the game does end up releasing as a cross-gen title. Retro will make the most of whatever platform they're developing for.
 
I wonder if the game will be using TAA on Switch for both docked and undocked mode and DLSS on docked mode only for Drake
 
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Aurc said:
AAA game development takes a long time. In January of 2023, we'll have reached 4 years since Nintendo's announcement of the game's rebooted development under Retro. By the time this game does release, it'll likely have been 5 years since that announcement, minimum. The Switch successor will surely be out by then, and as much as I'd like Prime 4 to have been developed with future hardware in mind this entire time, I don't think that's likely, nor a reasonable expectation to have. It won't be exclusive to the new hardware, because they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the already existing, massive Switch install base (especially not for a niche franchise like Metroid).

I'd love to be wrong. Not out of a will to deprive Switch owners of the compelling experience we're sure to receive, obviously, but rather, out of a strong desire to see the game be as good as it can possibly be, with the minimum level of compromise. I figure it's not just about graphics and framerate, but also the size of the levels, the complexity of the AI, the number of enemies that can be onscreen at once, and so on. I do recall some veteran Retro devs expressing disappointment with the Wii, and its relatively small leap in power from the GameCube, back when they were in the middle of developing Prime 3, so I have to wonder to what extent the current devs working there feel constrained by what's possible on the Switch's modest hardware.

Hopefully this goes without saying, but I'm not worried either way, even if the game does end up releasing as a cross-gen title. Retro will make the most of whatever platform they're developing for.
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Best case dream scenario is that Metroid Prime 5 starts development on the new hardware very shortly after Prime 4's release and gets released a year or two later.
 
Aurc said:
I'd love to be wrong. Not out of a will to deprive Switch owners of the compelling experience we're sure to receive, obviously, but rather, out of a strong desire to see the game be as good as it can possibly be, with the minimum level of compromise. I figure it's not just about graphics and framerate, but also the size of the levels, the complexity of the AI, the number of enemies that can be onscreen at once, and so on. I do recall some veteran Retro devs expressing disappointment with the Wii, and its relatively small leap in power from the GameCube, back when they were in the middle of developing Prime 3, so I have to wonder to what extent the current devs working there feel constrained by what's possible on the Switch's modest hardware.
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My best guess is that, at least some time over the last few years, Nintendo would've had to hook them up with the specs for the next gen. It would enable them to get enough of a decent look ahead, but also being kept in mind with what's the limits of the base Switch. If they've been able to work within the confines of an "environment" that's decently scalable between the Switch and its successor, then so much the better when it comes to optimizing each platform's strengths.

So with that in mind, I'm still hoping my hope still comes to pass. Probably the best thing about PS5 games being "held back by PS4" during the transitional period of the last few years was PS5 games being locked at 60fps. A trend I don't necessarily expect to last long on that side, beyond the usual suspects, but would be more than welcome to see a version of that persist for Switch/Successor games.
 
Joe said:
Best case dream scenario is that Metroid Prime 5 starts development on the new hardware very shortly after Prime 4's release and gets released a year or two later.
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I just want Prime 4 to come out haha... Not even thinking about 5. Even sequels are taking 5ish years to develop these days in the AAA space.
 
Zeal543 said:
It's not that easy, the metroid prime games are known more for their visual flair than they are for running at 60FPS. The switch is in a position where it can't really do both, especially not for a major 3D game. I would prefer if the visual fidelity dropped for 60FPS (or for the next nintendo system to have a 60FPS option without having to sacrifice visuals) but realistically Nintendo/Retro isn't going to go for frame rate over visuals for prime 4
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MP had a lot small room based location, with a handfull more open areas.
If they are not going for a full on fluent open world (and i dont see it as needed), then the more confined nature would leviate a lot of the problems.
I could see it looking stunning indoor, reducing resolution in the wider areas, but trying to keep 60fps, and pushing resolution and effects on the successor.

Aurc said:
I don't know that we can expect "Doom levels" of action, or gameplay fluidity, considering the Prime games are naturally slower, and more methodical. Nonetheless, I do fully expect and desire a snappier, more modern gameplay framework, as I don't believe they're simply going to ignore all these years of strides made by first-person shooters / action games, on that front.
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For shure. Doom already fellt like it took a lot of inspiration from MP, now its time for MP to take inspiration back.
(Which does not mean being as fast and action oriented, but the fluidity would be good)
 
Mr Doggo said:
I think i dont want nintendo's games coming washed out like some of pixar's latest efforts... cough cough the buzz film cough cough


I understand the feeling but i am quite divided on it. On one side yeah maybe it would allow designs and visuals that the switch simply cannot grasp.

In the other... idk, even i would feel cheapened out by that.
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I already feel cheapened out that it's been 5 years since MP4 was announced and it still hasn't released. After all this time my Switch is literally falling apart and parts are breaking, and - with changing visual standards elsewhere - I've become more aware of the low-res textures and low-poly models in even the best-looking first party titles (like Luigi's Mansion 3, Breath of the Wild and Metroid Dread). I would much prefer Metroid Prime 4 release on next-gen hardware so it feels similar to when I first played Breath of the Wild all the way back in 2017.
 
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Unfortunately another Retro Studios veteran, Will Bate left the studio to become the Animation Manager at Insomniac games. He joined Retro in 2006 as an Animator and was most recently the Technical Art Manager from June 2018 to January 2023.
 
Sometimes people just move on. And him moving on bodes well that his work on a project was finished.

- me, an unearned optimist
 
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