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Spoiler Metroid Dread Spoiler/Story thread (OPEN SPOILERS)

WestEgg said:
I wonder if Kraid in this game was the Kraid or just a Kraid. Seems unlikely he would have a.) survived his defeat by Samus. b.) survived the destruction of Zebes or was somehow evacuated before it's destruction, and c.) was somehow transported to ZDR for some reason.
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The Kraid from Super Metroid was like the fourth Kraid, right?

There were two in Metroid, one of whom was the "real" Kraid, there was the Samus-sized Kraid in Super who was a callback to those ones, and then there was the giant one that everyone means when they said "Kraid" nowadays

Given that they have Draygon in a jar in the background of one of the labs, I'm thinking that the Kraid (and the Draygon, naturally) that we saw weren't the original articles, and may have been designed by the Mawkin in the first place
 
WestEgg said:
I wonder if Kraid in this game was the Kraid or just a Kraid. Seems unlikely he would have a.) survived his defeat by Samus. b.) survived the destruction of Zebes or was somehow evacuated before it's destruction, and c.) was somehow transported to ZDR for some reason.
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My theory has always been that Kraid isn't just a dude, Kraid is an entire species. Which is why you fight so many Kraids throughout the series.
Phantom Thief said:
Why exactly did the X Parasite help Samus at the end?
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Several theories have been posted. The one I like is that X parasites don't fully control sentient beings, or have a much harder time doing so. When Raven Beak died he lost his control over the X parasites (evidenced by the Chozo Warriors you fight on his orders) and Quiet Robe X overtakes the consciousness of the X inside him to help out Samus one last time by giving her his Thoha DNA to help control/suppress her Metroid DNA.
 
Skittzo said:
My theory has always been that Kraid isn't just a dude, Kraid is an entire species. Which is why you fight so many Kraids throughout the series.

Several theories have been posted. The one I like is that X parasites don't fully control sentient beings, or have a much harder time doing so. When Raven Beak died he lost his control over the X parasites (evidenced by the Chozo Warriors you fight on his orders) and Quiet Robe X overtakes the consciousness of the X inside him to help out Samus one last time by giving her his Thoha DNA to help control/suppress her Metroid DNA.
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Was it the Thoha DNA that neutralized the Metroid powers? I thought it was Samus absorbing the X that did that actually.

My own theory was that the X realized the planet was about to explode and the entire species would go down, so it figured being absorbed by Samus would give it the best (only) chance at survival. But nothing really feels entirely satisfactory lol.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Was it the Thoha DNA that neutralized the Metroid powers? I thought it was Samus absorbing the X that did that actually.

My own theory was that the X realized the planet was about to explode and the entire species would go down, so it figured being absorbed by Samus would give it the best (only) chance at survival. But nothing really feels entirely satisfactory lol.
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Absorbing any old X wouldn't help neutralize her Metroid powers, considering Metroids eat X, not the other way around.

But it's established that the Thoha were the only ones capable of controlling Metroids, presumably by their own nature. So the Thoha in Quiet Robe transferring to Samus can deactivate or remove or whatever her Metroid DNA.
 
Skittzo said:
Absorbing any old X wouldn't help neutralize her Metroid powers, considering Metroids eat X, not the other way around.

But it's established that the Thoha were the only ones capable of controlling Metroids, presumably by their own nature. So the Thoha in Quiet Robe transferring to Samus can deactivate or remove or whatever her Metroid DNA.
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Would an X impersonating Silent Robe even have Thoha DNA?
 
Phendrift said:
It’s kind of open and I think that’s the intention. Like “why did the baby help Samus”
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See that one has very obvious answers that are pretty clearly communicated via subtext.

This one, I dunno tbh.

EDIT: to respond to your edit, I actually think Fusion did an excellent job with that (for all my other dislike of that game), Dread doesn't really get into that (which makes sense because Dread isn't about the X, Dread is the Super Metroid to Fusion's Metroid 2 as far as the X go).
 
Phantom Thief said:
See that one has very obvious answers that are pretty clearly communicated via subtext.

This one, I dunno tbh.

EDIT: to respond to your edit, I actually think Fusion did an excellent job with that (for all my other dislike of that game), Dread doesn't really get into that (which makes sense because Dread isn't about the X, Dread is the Super Metroid to Fusion's Metroid 2 as far as the X go).
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Or maybe why did the baby attach to Samus in the first place. We didn’t know Metroids were capable of that and may be more complex than thought, maybe they’re trying a similar thing with the X
 
Phendrift said:
Or maybe why did the baby attach to Samus in the first place. We didn’t know Metroids were capable of that and may be more complex than thought, maybe they’re trying a similar thing with the X
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Kinda. The thing is, a larval/infant life form imprinting on what it sees first as the parent is a pretty known phenomenon in nature. Extrapolating that to the Metroids (which had been depicted as having a life cycle that was not too divorced from the life cycles of several real creatures to begin with, further drawing that connection) wasn't a stretch, and in fact was a very natural conclusion.

The X are more abstract to begin with, plus their individuality versus their hive mind nature is unclear (assuming they are even capable of intelligent thought, which I will accept they are), and given every single thing we have been shown of them, an X parasite going out of its way to literally help the final remaining specimen of its only natural predator feels odd to me. I dunno.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Kinda. The thing is, a larval/infant life form imprinting on what it sees first as the parent is a pretty known phenomenon in nature. Extrapolating that to the Metroids (which had been depicted as having a life cycle that was not too divorced from the life cycles of several real creatures to begin with, further drawing that connection) wasn't a stretch, and in fact was a very natural conclusion.

The X are more abstract to begin with, plus their individuality versus their hive mind nature is unclear (assuming they are even capable of intelligent thought, which I will accept they are), and given every single thing we have been shown of them, an X parasite going out of its way to literally help the final remaining specimen of its only natural predator feels odd to me. I dunno.
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True, I see what you mean. I do think people have come up with some theories that make sense though
 
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Phantom Thief said:
Why exactly did the X Parasite help Samus at the end?
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The best explanation for my money is that it wasn't the X, it was effectively Quiet Robe

Either it copied him so precisely that it also copied his memory and will—we know X can do that—or the will of the Thoha allowed him to control the X to some extent—we know Chozo can do that. It would suggest that no Chozo is ever completely overwhelmed by an X, and that all of them retain some semblance of their personalities and wills, which is one possible explanation for why the Chozo X soldiers continue to obey Raven Beak

Or, if you want: the power of love and family (since Samus is Thoha) overcame the mundane reality of death
 
Jimmy Joe said:
The best explanation for my money is that it wasn't the X, it was effectively Quiet Robe

Either it copied him so precisely that it also copied his memory and will—we know X can do that—or the will of the Thoha allowed him to control the X to some extent—we know Chozo can do that. It would suggest that no Chozo is ever completely overwhelmed by an X, and that all of them retain some semblance of their personalities and wills, which is one possible explanation for why the Chozo X soldiers continue to obey Raven Beak

Or, if you want: the power of love and family (since Samus is Thoha) overcame the mundane reality of death
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Yeah, I just wish there had been some indication that the Chozo are resistant to full X impersonation before, because right now with it coming out of nowhere, I just have trouble wrapping my head around an X parasite going out of its way to literally help the final remaining specimen of its only natural predator (which as we know runs counter to its fundamental instinct).
 
Phantom Thief said:
Yeah, I just wish there had been some indication that the Chozo are resistant to full X impersonation before, because right now with it coming out of nowhere, I just have trouble wrapping my head around an X parasite going out of its way to literally help the final remaining specimen of its only natural predator (which as we know runs counter to its fundamental instinct).
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Well, again, it's hinted throughout the game that Chozo X are not operating on instinct, and in fact retain at least some degree of their base personalities. It's not said explicitly in the text, but it is there
 
Jimmy Joe said:
Well, again, it's hinted throughout the game that Chozo X are not operating on instinct, and in fact retain at least some degree of their base personalities. It's not said explicitly in the text, but it is there
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Is it? I absolutely missed it, so I am legitimately asking, what in the game hints at this? Sorry if that comes off as aggressive lol, I'm sincerely just asking.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Is it? I absolutely missed it, so I am legitimately asking, what in the game hints at this? Sorry if that comes off as aggressive lol, I'm sincerely just asking.
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Oh no worries about tone, please let me know if I step out of line

The most explicit hint is when you're running through the second-to-last area and the strongest Chozo Warrior X (like the gold) are specifically keeping you from getting to Raven Beak

Again, it's subtle, but they're still acting as guards, which suggests that they still feel loyalty to Raven Beak above their own survival and propagation

There's also the reveal, through the Chozo lore, that Raven Beak was present when the first X revealed itself, and if it was just a matter of containing one X then he could have done that pretty easily. It seems that the spread of the X throughout the Mawkin was controlled, either by the Mawkin themselves or by Raven Beak in particular
 
Jimmy Joe said:
Oh no worries about tone, please let me know if I step out of line

The most explicit hint is when you're running through the second-to-last area and the strongest Chozo Warrior X (like the gold) are specifically keeping you from getting to Raven Beak

Again, it's subtle, but they're still acting as guards, which suggests that they still feel loyalty to Raven Beak above their own survival and propagation

There's also the reveal, through the Chozo lore, that Raven Beak was present when the first X revealed itself, and if it was just a matter of containing one X then he could have done that pretty easily. It seems that the spread of the X throughout the Mawkin was controlled, either by the Mawkin themselves or by Raven Beak in particular
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Oh no, you're totally fine haha 😅

I did pick up on the Chozo guards, well, guarding things, but I just figured that's them replicating the personality and memories of their hosts (which to be fair we already did know they can do).

I am definitely interested in the other point though. I was also curious about how Raven Beak managed to avoid the X infection right through to the end, when we know that they are capable of total and absolute infection at an alarmingly exponential rate. So there was definitely something there that indicated that the Chozo (at least some of them) aren't as susceptible to the X as other life forms may be.

I guess my problem with assuming that Silent Robe was acting as Silent Robe in that last scene is that not too long ago, he had explicitly reactivated the EMMIs and set them on Samus. So that's an inconsistency in his behaviour.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Oh no, you're totally fine haha 😅

I did pick up on the Chozo guards, well, guarding things, but I just figured that's them replicating the personality and memories of their hosts (which to be fair we already did know they can do).

I am definitely interested in the other point though. I was also curious about how Raven Beak managed to avoid the X infection right through to the end, when we know that they are capable of total and absolute infection at an alarmingly exponential rate. So there was definitely something there that indicated that the Chozo (at least some of them) aren't as susceptible to the X as other life forms may be.

I guess my problem with assuming that Silent Robe was acting as Silent Robe in that last scene is that not too long ago, he had explicitly reactivated the EMMIs and set them on Samus. So that's an inconsistency in his behaviour.
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A completely fair point! We did talk about it a bit earlier in the thread:

Jimmy Joe said:
The X have acted as a means for Samus to absorb new powers ever since Fusion, that's the entire concept behind the Core X. Metroid is one of those sci-fi settings where genetic information is also encoded with experience, memories, abilities, etc. And Metroids change, genetically, based on what they eat! Does ti make sense? I mean, not really. But it's been like this for about 20 years, so it's not new

With regard to Quiet Robe reactivating the E.M.M.I.

I think it's worth remembering that the Chozo are psychic, and in fact have always been psychic. It allows the Thoha to control the Metroids, it meant that the Thoha weren't immediately attacked by the X on SR-388, it's how Mother Brain controls life on Zebes, and it allows Raven Beak to control the X!

And yes, it's subtle, but Raven Beak does control the X. It's why the X-ified Chozo Soldiers still obey him and specifically act as his guards. The other possible explanation is that the underlying consciousness of the guards persists, but the two aren't mutually exclusive, either

The way I see it, there's two possible explanations for why Quiet Robe would reactivate the E.M.M.I.

1. Between Quiet Robe's death and resurrection, things have changed a lot. Samus is going to need the power that each E.M.M.I. houses, so even though it's going to be dangerous, the only way to force her to interact with them is to wake them up and put her into direct conflict with them

2. Quiet Robe was under Raven Beak's control when he did this, and behaves differently in the ending because Raven Beak lost control of the X—including Quiet Robe—when Samus grabbed hold of him and destroyed the information network. So at about the same time an X decided it was time to absorb Raven Beak (some time before it actually happens!), Quiet Robe would have also been freed from that control, and rushed to help Samus

Either explanation feels cogent enough to me
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I go back and forth on whether or not Raven Beak is controlling the X directly or if the Chozo powers allow the infected to retain their personalities, but Quiet Robe's actions at the end only make sense if the latter is true (and, again, it's not exclusive with the former)

For situations like this, I don't tend to worry about whether or not the narrative tells us why something happened, just that it happened, and then I like to build a structure for how those events could have taken place without contradicting each other

In that sense, Dread is a smorgasbord for me
 
Jimmy Joe said:
A completely fair point! We did talk about it a bit earlier in the thread:



I go back and forth on whether or not Raven Beak is controlling the X directly or if the Chozo powers allow the infected to retain their personalities, but Quiet Robe's actions at the end only make sense if the latter is true (and, again, it's not exclusive with the former)

For situations like this, I don't tend to worry about whether or not the narrative tells us why something happened, just that it happened, and then I like to build a structure for how those events could have taken place without contradicting each other

In that sense, Dread is a smorgasbord for me
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Oh for sure, this happening doesn't really break the story for me or anything, and in fact me trying to contextualize it within my understanding of the rest of the story is outright a triumph for the game in this regard, I would say!

I think your second point might actually be the answer. I had totally forgotten about the Chozo's psychic abilities to be honest, which kind of answers my questions in one go. If I assume Raven Beak was keeping some control over the X, and that his death also resulted in the X released from his control, then it also makes sense to me that Silent Robe was able to reassert his consciousness and individuality and let Samus escape in that final moment.

I also like the symmetry of the Mawkin and the Thoha being two opposed tribes, with the Mawkin controlling the X and the Thoha controlling the Metroids, which are also opposed to one another.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Yeah, I just wish there had been some indication that the Chozo are resistant to full X impersonation before, because right now with it coming out of nowhere, I just have trouble wrapping my head around an X parasite going out of its way to literally help the final remaining specimen of its only natural predator (which as we know runs counter to its fundamental instinct).
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Arguably, we have that with Samus herself, since she was infected by the X for a while before the Metroid antidote was given to her. Since the Thoha have stronger mental capabilities it might take even longer for a full Thoha.

It doesn't do a great job of explaining why QR-X reactivated the EMMIs but that could simply be because Raven Beak has some measure of control over the X and commanded it or influenced it to do so.
 
NabiscoFelt said:
Arguably, we have that with Samus herself, since she was infected by the X for a while before the Metroid antidote was given to her. Since the Thoha have stronger mental capabilities it might take even longer for a full Thoha.

It doesn't do a great job of explaining why QR-X reactivated the EMMIs but that could simply be because Raven Beak has some measure of control over the X and commanded it or influenced it to do so.
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Yeah I think I am willing to go with this explanation. It somehow totally slipped my mind that the Chozo have psychic powers, so everything makes much more sense with that in mind
 
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NabiscoFelt said:
Arguably, we have that with Samus herself, since she was infected by the X for a while before the Metroid antidote was given to her. Since the Thoha have stronger mental capabilities it might take even longer for a full Thoha.

It doesn't do a great job of explaining why QR-X reactivated the EMMIs but that could simply be because Raven Beak has some measure of control over the X and commanded it or influenced it to do so.
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Samus was properly alive, though. Quiet Robe was not.
 
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Just finished the game 100% (my poor fingers) what an ending. I will soon start reading in to the potential lore possibilities and I am very interested where they want to take the story further.
 
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Aostia82 said:
What is the consensus about Samus VO?
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I think she did a solid job. I'd love to have her back on as Samus again in other, non-2D games, too, as unlikely as it would be. Retro's probably got their own talent lined up.
 
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"The last metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace" better be used a stinger line in a later metroid game, particularly if she's fighting the Federation or a faction within the Federation, given where the series' plot is going. I think it'd be a great game over line myself.
 
Quoted by: SiG
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Finally got to the end and it’s hard to put into words how awesome I find it. Raven Beak hands down has become one of my favorite fights in the series for just the overall presentation and actually living up to his own hype, lol. I am STILL not over him ripping off his own damn wing like it was nothing to start the 3rd phase of the boss fight! No wonder Samus is such a badass with genes like that! XD. And then everything after the fight was just…I love this game so much!

The only real complaint I have is the music wasn’t very memorable, but this may just be a MerSteam complaint because I wasn’t too fond of their OSTs for the Lords of Shadow games either.
 
I do think the Raven Beak fight is one of the best fights in a 2D game in recent memory... if not ever.

But I really, really hate the trope where you beat the final boss only for the final boss to beat you in a cutscene seconds later, only to be deus exed to death.
 
I'm actually interested in where do the X go from here. Surely they aren't extinct. Next Metroid starting a new story will be bonkers.
 
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Skittzo said:
I do think the Raven Beak fight is one of the best fights in a 2D game in recent memory... if not ever.

But I really, really hate the trope where you beat the final boss only for the final boss to beat you in a cutscene seconds later, only to be deus exed to death.
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This bothers me slightly less on replaying the game

The initial confrontation between Raven Beak and Samus plays out exactly like the final battle: she wears down his energy shield with the Plasma Beam, ducks under his wave attack, counters him, and causes damage to him

Then he uses the same one-shot full screen command grab that he uses in the final battle

Samus's equipment has gotten better, but she was a better fighter than him from the start; the difference between them is that he was hooked into a power source that she couldn't hope to match just by being a better fighter
 
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There's so much to discuss in regards to the game's story, but my biggest lingering question is, probably: What was the deal with that black tar-like substance? Have the X changed somehow, since Fusion?

I kept expecting the black stuff to come up as a plot point of some sort, and it never did.
 
Quoted by: SiG
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Skittzo said:
I do think the Raven Beak fight is one of the best fights in a 2D game in recent memory... if not ever.

But I really, really hate the trope where you beat the final boss only for the final boss to beat you in a cutscene seconds later, only to be deus exed to death.
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I definitely agree that it's a killer fight (maybe not my favorite 2D fight, I'd rank a couple HK fights above it, but definitely my favorite in any game not named Hollow Knight) and that the trope kinda ruins it.

I'm usually fine with the trope but for a final boss fight it's kinda...meh
 
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Skittzo said:
And what exactly caused the planet to explode anyway, beyond Metroid series tradition? Did Raven Beak somehow tie his ship into the thermal energy systems in the planet?
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Might have something to do with using the Power Bomb on that generator-looking thing just below the elevator leading up to Raven Beak inside the Itorash sky temple. That, and the combination of crashing the entire thing on the ground.

Aurc said:
There's so much to discuss in regards to the game's story, but my biggest lingering question is, probably: What was the deal with that black tar-like substance? Have the X changed somehow, since Fusion?

I kept expecting the black stuff to come up as a plot point of some sort, and it never did.
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My guess is that it was always meant to look like a colourful X-like substance or resemble half-mutated sludge, but since depicting the X in such a way would clash with the artstyle (I mean it did look kind of funny as the X were all exiting Elun, as if a bunch of gummy candies just came out of Willy Wonka's Chocolait Factory), they changed it so X would primarily appear as tar-like except for the nuclei.

Brewster123 said:
"The last metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace" better be used a stinger line in a later metroid game, particularly if she's fighting the Federation or a faction within the Federation, given where the series' plot is going. I think it'd be a great game over line myself.
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Metroid: Wanted should be a thing.
 
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So, given that

1. Kraid is like the fifth iteration of the creature we've seen, and seems to have been grown on ZDR

2. Draygon was also being grown in a lab on ZDR

3. Mother Brain is able to psionically control Metroids, which is a Thoha thing, and she was made by the Thoha

4. Raven Beak was on Zebes, giving him the opportunity to spread his vision of order in the universe, which is identical to Mother Brain's

5. Super Metroid involved a second Mother Brain, fresh Kraid, maybe fresh Ridley, etc.

I would like to suggest that the Mawkin, and more specifically Raven Beak, is actually behind the Space Pirates
 
Jimmy Joe said:
So, given that

1. Kraid is like the fifth iteration of the creature we've seen, and seems to have been grown on ZDR

2. Draygon was also being grown in a lab on ZDR

3. Mother Brain is able to psionically control Metroids, which is a Thoha thing, and she was made by the Thoha

4. Raven Beak was on Zebes to spread his vision of order in the universe, which is identical to Mother Brain's

5. Super Metroid involved a second Mother Brain, fresh Kraid, maybe fresh Ridley, etc.

I would like to suggest that the Mawkin, and more specifically Raven Beak, is actually behind the Space Pirates
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Someone do "Agatha All Along" but with Raven Beak
 
Also, point of order! Point of order

The Zebesians are just Chozo

miniboss_cyborgzebesian1.jpg


Or, at the very least, based on Chozo
 
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So... what exactly caused ZDR to blow up at the end? I'm guessing Raven Break had some sort of deadman's switch to trigger planetary annihilation in the event of his death like Mother Brain, but that's about all I can come up with.
 
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When Quiet Robe was infected with the X, did he turn the EMMIs on purpose or was it the X? Trying to understand motivation there in reflection of the theories I’m reading here about the retention of personality when infected.
 
Kevin360 said:
When Quiet Robe was infected with the X, did he turn the EMMIs on purpose or was it the X? Trying to understand motivation there in reflection of the theories I’m reading here about the retention of personality when infected.
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It's possible that Raven Beak was able to influence the X on some level while he was alive. As we saw several X infected Chozo Warriors hunting Samus.

So, Raven Beak told Quiet Robe X to restart the EMMIs, then after he was dead Quiet Robe's personality was able to reassert itself over the X.

That's the theory anyway.
 
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Skittzo said:
IIRC you get a certain amount for beating the game under a certain time limit.

You get 3 if you beat normal in under 4 hours, and another 3 if you beat hard in under 4 hours.
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Oh dang. Not sure if I’ll ever get all of those. Still debating about second run being a hard mode under 4 hour run.
 
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