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Discussion Kit and Krysta believe that Nintendo is disappointed in TOTK sales

I kept on saying at the time - and will keep on saying it - that the big issue TOTK has sales wise is that it's a direct sequel to BOTW. If you're someone yet to play these two games that you've seen people on the internet raving about, then in most cases they're going to start at the first game, BOTW, then come back to TOTK provided they have the appetite for seconds. Then there's also the fact that not everyone who bought BOTW is going to come back for TOTK.

I think we can be amazed at what TOTK has sold already while being surprised that it doesn't have the legs we were expecting, but honestly, I think we can chalk this up to a case of sequelitis.
 
I highly doubt this, considering they sold over 20 million copies in less than a year.

Especially considering TOTK released less than a year ago, and the marketing efforts has been high for the Holiday season, it it extremely low numbers compared to the evergreens during the Holiday season.

TOTK apparently doesn't sell much to new Switch owners. If Nintendo do heavy Holiday marketing for a product that doesn't sell to the target audience, it's a failure at some level.

Let's look at some numbers during the last quarter:
New Switches sold: 6.9 M
Mario Kart 8: 3.57 M (51% compared to new Switches sold)
Animal Crossing: 1.41 M (20%)
Super Smash: 1.23 M (18%)
Switch Sports: 1.71 M (25%)
TOTK: 0.78M (11%)
 
Especially considering TOTK released less than a year ago, and the marketing efforts has been high for the Holiday season, it it extremely low numbers compared to the evergreens during the Holiday season.

TOTK apparently doesn't sell much to new Switch owners. If Nintendo do heavy Holiday marketing for a product that doesn't sell to the target audience, it's a failure at some level.

Let's look at some numbers during the last quarter:
New Switches sold: 6.9 M
Mario Kart 8: 3.57 M (51% compared to new Switches sold)
Animal Crossing: 1.41 M (20%)
Super Smash: 1.23 M (18%)
Switch Sports: 1.71 M (25%)
TOTK: 0.78M (11%)
You can't be serious.
The games you've listed are not 50 hours adventure games, but casual and mostly multiplayer games. These are the epitome of evergreen titles.
Trying to paint Totk legs as "it's a failure at some level" when you compare it you them is baffling.
 
2023 was just so packed with games that, while TOTK still stood out, there were just too many different things to play and/or be interested in.

Also I think that people that didn't buy BOTW wanted to play that first and then jump on TOTK, then realizing how big the game is they are probably not playing them back to back because that would generate immense burnout (I know some people that did so), plus there have been some reasonable discounts for BOTW while TOTK I've never seen it below MSRP here.
 
You can't be serious.
The games you've listed are not 50 hours adventure games, but casual and mostly multiplayer games. These are the epitome of evergreen titles.
Trying to paint Totk legs as "it's a failure at some level" when you compare it you them is baffling.
Another way of putting it: TOTK is not an evergreen title, but BOTW was. BOTW didn't sell that much less than TOTK during the last quarter, 7 year after its release, without any additional marketing.
 
Another way of putting it: TOTK is not an evergreen title, but BOTW was. BOTW didn't sell that much less than TOTK during the last quarter, 7 year after its release, without any additional marketing.
1. Botw didn't sell 20 millions in a month.
2. Totk didn't replace Botw. In fact if someone is new to Switch and asks which Zelda should he play first most people would recommend to start with Botw then move to Totk.

Like a guy in Resetera said Hogwarts Legacy sold 22 millions copies in 6 different platforms and it's considered one of the biggest successes ever.
Totk sold 20 millions in a single platform and we're here debating if it was some kind of disappointment.
 
This game is already among the top 50-or-so selling games of all time in just 7 months.

No person with realistic expectations could possibly be disappointed in its sales performance
Nintendo wanted it to be numba 1
 
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This is always an awful take for whatever game it's made about. Some of the most played games every year get absolutely no hype or discussion in the gamer (tm) bubble like Minecraft, Valorant, or League of Legends. Meanwhile one of the most discussed games of the past few months has been Suicide Squad, a game that's an absolute bomb but dissecting its corpse has been a favorite pass time for many.

I agree, the ”wow this game fell off pretty quick/kind of came and went” line of thinking is a tad weird to me because it’s so highly relevant depending on where you choose to spend your time. If you were on my YouTube account, you’d think that TotK was the only thing that existed in the entire world. It may “seem like” Baldur’s Gate and stuff took over the conversation, and maybe that was the case on Era and Twitter, meanwhile there were tens of millions of people elsewhere wrapped up in the next big Steam survival hit game that went ”is that a single-player game?”
 
are you serious? the video title is "why nintendo is disappointed by tears of the kingdom sales"
Yes, I'm serious. The title doesn't reflect what they're saying in the video, the OP is wrong and many people who commented are only reacting to the title and not the content. Either people haven't heard their actual thoughts, or they're purposefully ignoring them.

If all we're supposed to discuss is in the title, then we shouldn't read OP's anymore either.
 
While i call "doubt" on the thought that Nintendo is in any way disappointed with the game or its legs, i think Nintendo has an easy way to increase those legs, and is likely going to do just that.

The easy way: TotK will be one of those games Nintendo will advertise a "next-gen patch" or even a native Switch 2 version.

Problem solved.

They know they won't have a new mainline Zelda for at least 3-4 years (counting starting in 2024), so this is a very effective way to have Switch 2 having a "big Zelda" game early, and give the game a "pseudo BotW" situation, using the hype of a new console launch for the game.
 
Yes, I'm serious. The title doesn't reflect what they're saying in the video, the OP is wrong and many people who commented are only reacting to the title and not the content. Either people haven't heard their actual thoughts, or they're purposefully ignoring them.

If all we're supposed to discuss is in the title, then we shouldn't read OP's anymore either.

Tbf if the thread title was totally different to the OP then a mod would probably ask them to update it...
 
Yes, I'm serious. The title doesn't reflect what they're saying in the video, the OP is wrong and many people who commented are only reacting to the title and not the content. Either people haven't heard their actual thoughts, or they're purposefully ignoring them.

If all we're supposed to discuss is in the title, then we shouldn't read OP's anymore either.
If the title of a video doesn't reflect what's in the video then it's a clickbait by definition.
Don't encourage clickbait.
 
Yes, I'm serious. The title doesn't reflect what they're saying in the video, the OP is wrong and many people who commented are only reacting to the title and not the content. Either people haven't heard their actual thoughts, or they're purposefully ignoring them.

If all we're supposed to discuss is in the title, then we shouldn't read OP's anymore either.
it's still something they said, even if they contradict themselves later

a title (and thumbnail) are part of the video
 
Tbf if the thread title was totally different to the OP then a mod would probably ask them to update it...
I agree. If only we could do that with YouTube videos.

If the title of a video doesn't reflect what's in the video then it's a clickbait by definition.
Don't encourage clickbait.
Where have I argued that it isn't a clickbait title? Where have I encouraged clickbait? Don't put words in my mouth. And this thread isn't asking whether the title of the video is clickbait or not. I think everyone agrees it is.

it's still something they said, even if they contradict themselves later

a title (and thumbnail) are part of the video
Then still this entire thread is about 1 line out of a 20 minute video, which does not reflect it.

Again, this is 100% clickbait. But we can do better than not listening and react to 1 line.
 
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While i call "doubt" on the thought that Nintendo is in any way disappointed with the game or its legs, i think Nintendo has an easy way to increase those legs, and is likely going to do just that.

The easy way: TotK will be one of those games Nintendo will advertise a "next-gen patch" or even a native Switch 2 version.

Problem solved.

They know they won't have a new mainline Zelda for at least 3-4 years (counting starting in 2024), so this is a very effective way to have Switch 2 having a "big Zelda" game early, and give the game a "pseudo BotW" situation, using the hype of a new console launch for the game.
I agree. I don't think Nintendo is disappointed with these numbers.
A physical release for the next system and an (paid) update for existing owners could help with the legs, though I wonder if it will do that much since TotK doesn't have the momentum.
But I also think that if they do a next gen update, then BotW will get one as well. And if both get it, then BotW might take a bite out of TotK's lunch.
 
BOTW also had the advantage of being the last swansong for the Wii U. Especially back then, a lot of people recommended picking up BOTW for the Wii U instead because the Switch didn't have enough titles to justify buying one; if you had a Wii U, BOTW on that system was simply the better choice.

It meant Nintendo was able to essentially double dip in sales; Wii U for all the sales that come from existing owners and the Switch for all sales that come from people looking for the best game on the Switch at the time.

(Even with the FPS hit, the fact the game was originally made for the Wii U is also something to consider.)
 
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On a side note, this channel is a big disappointment regarding proper info from people who worked for Nintendo for so long. Maybe it goes to show that NoA people have no idea what Nintendo Japan does.

Kit and Krysta are completely uninformed about basic stuff, they rely so much on their years of experience but not only do they fail to share that properly, but they also fail to do basic journalism work.

I tried to like their content, but they sure don't make it easy.
 
People think that they know something, that's the problem.
Have the claimed they really "know" anything though? They used to work for Nintendo but they've never said they know exactly how Nintendo works. They've said themselves Nintendo is unpredictable lol
 
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I do wonder whether K&K get information or scoops from their past colleagues or that they just suck these things straight out of their thumbs based on their gut feeling and roll with it.
 
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Probably not disappointed lol. But it is an example of how end of lifetime games often don't reach the highs of prequels.
 
Quoted by: Ab
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Then still this entire thread is about 1 line out of a 20 minute video, which does not reflect it.
Respectfully, that is absolutely not true and you know it. This thread made it possible to have an interesting conversation, in which you are participating, not only on the latest sales figures of Totk, on the differences between the life cycle of Totk and that of Botw, taking into account the nature respective games as well as the distinct context of their launch window.

This thread also allowed for interesting discussions on the distribution of responsibilities in the proliferation of this type of somewhat misleading titles and presentation. We're clicking, we're chatting, so it's working and we're part of the problem. Google, a powerful player, encourages this and is obviously an important part of the problem.

It is both inaccurate and unfair to claim that this discussion did not result in an exchange. I fully accept that I do not find Kit and Krysta's work particularly relevant or particularly sympathetic, but contrary to what you are trying to suggest, the reasons why their content is questionable can also give rise to nuanced, open, varied and constructive talks. For example, there is a contradiction in their approach which consists of changing careers to do more journalistic content and ultimately continuing to do marketing. This illustrates the fact that the notion of journalism means something, requires know-how, competence, specific ethics like any profession, and that it is not enough to produce content and stick on a badge. “I don’t do marketing” to be a journalist.

This total confusion in 2024 between content production and information sharing, which are simply not the same professions, is in my opinion a critical and essential subject. We talk a lot about the industry which is suffering, it's also true for video game journalism, it's heartbreaking, it's sad, and it's entirely linked to the emergence of this type of actor and of this kind of method in the economic model of what should be press and not “content”.

Once again, it is absolutely not a question of focusing on a particular YouTube channel. It turns out that the way of appropriating legitimacy by playing on their experience as marketing people at NoA leads to a positioning which ends up giving not only this kind of clickbait titles, but also quite poor content overall since the product sold relies on this self-proclaimed expertise more than on the quality of the work produced.
 
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maybe the real performance nintendo was disappointed with was kit and krystas or they would still be working there damn gottem
 
K&Kworked at Nintendo for a number of years. I don’t think it’s irrational to think they made contacts during their employment and are probably still in contact with a number of people there, regardless of what their job was. So it is entirely plausible that someone who is still working at Nintendo would share something with them.

That doesn’t necessarily mean what they’re saying here is true, but don’t think it’s fair to resort to telling them they know nothing, they’re full of shit, etc etc. They’re in a position to know more than anyone here on this forum, that’s for sure. Except for maybe Nate, ironically enough.
 
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Nearly every sequel I can think of has worse legs in general. There's also a point where hitting certain targets quicker means those legs might not matter as much. It just sounds so farcical to me.
less than a million units during peak holiday season for what many consider to be the best game this year which is also the sequel to what is often considered the best game of all time. Not saying it should've passed BOTW at this point. Not even saying that lifetime sales are a disappointment; they're clearly not. I think it's fair to have expected more for it within this timeframe.
 
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I mean I'm not gonna blame anyone for not watching the video and purely react on the title....

It's what they deserve. What they don't deserve are our clicks quite frankly with such a click baity title. Like I said earlier, if you gotta use such clickbait to get a people to watch your shit then your shit ain't worth watching.
 
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Next Zelda will have legs like Botw. Totk's world was already explored and the depths had not much to offer besides the Spirit Tempel. Reversed world would have been nice. Like the opposite of rito's, Zora's etc. The caves offered really not that much either. Sky islands were not enough and mostly blessing shrines. Alot of shrines in general were blessing shrines. I don't wish the traditional Zelda games to come back. I love the new direction. It was just not really new. If it really relies on exploration but the world is the same, the magic is gone. Next Zelda game will fix that. Also they have spent to much time with the systems. Like ultra hand. They could have completely delete that and instead invest that time to give us a new world to explore. Fill the depth or the sky islands. I am sure that ultra hand took so much time away from the development.
 
Don't know why YouTube personalities have it out for TotK. It has slower legs than BotW but considering the type of game it is, 20mil in half a year is incredible.
 
Saying that two senior directors have little knowledge about sale expectations for their former employer is a wild statement at best. What is going on in this topic?
wild shit.
Next Zelda will have legs like Botw. Totk's world was already explored and the depths had not much to offer besides the Spirit Tempel. Reversed world would have been nice. Like the opposite of rito's, Zora's etc. The caves offered really not that much either. Sky islands were not enough and mostly blessing shrines. Alot of shrines in general were blessing shrines. I don't wish the traditional Zelda games to come back. I love the new direction. It was just not really new. If it really relies on exploration but the world is the same, the magic is gone. Next Zelda game will fix that. Also they have spent to much time with the systems. Like ultra hand. They could have completely delete that and instead invest that time to give us a new world to explore. Fill the depth or the sky islands. I am sure that ultra hand took so much time away from the development.
Yeah I'm sure at some point in development, Aonuma and Fujibayashi were pretty eager to move on. I wonder if any part of development felt redundant to them. or if they potentially regretted making a sequel. Idk. but I'm really excited for the future of Zelda. I think they learned a lot of lessons from these two games.
 
It had the 3rd highest opening week for any Nintendo game, only barely beaten by two games that had released less than a year earlier, and in part due to its increased price has easily pulled in more than a billion in less than a year.
 
Saying that two senior directors have little knowledge about sale expectations for their former employer is a wild statement at best. What is going on in this topic?
wild shit.
I'm sure that their experience at Nintendo Of America, in public relations, gives them an interesting insight into the internal corporate culture at Nintendo Of America. There's no doubt about it, and it wouldn't make sense to argue otherwise.

On the other hand, public relations have nothing to do with sales, which are two fundamentally different divisions within any big company in the world, with different jobs and skills.

I know how to cook a pizza, but that doesn't give me the relevance or legitimacy to comment on Domino's Pizza's financial strategy (yes, the choice of this specific company is absolutely voluntary).

It's perfectly legitimate to appreciate their content if you wish, and no one has the right to reproach anyone for it. To each his own. The same goes for the other way round, whether you like it or not, especially when it's part of an opinion justified by arguments and respectful of the people mentioned.
 
I'm sure that their experience at Nintendo Of America, in public relations, gives them an interesting insight into the internal corporate culture at Nintendo Of America. There's no doubt about it, and it wouldn't make sense to argue otherwise.

On the other hand, public relations have nothing to do with sales, which are two fundamentally different divisions within any big company in the world, with different jobs and skills.

I know how to cook a pizza, but that doesn't give me the relevance or legitimacy to comment on Domino's Pizza's financial strategy (yes, the choice of this specific company is absolutely voluntary).

It's perfectly legitimate to appreciate their content if you wish, and no one has the right to reproach anyone for it. To each his own. The same goes for the other way round, whether you like it or not, especially when it's part of an opinion justified by arguments and respectful of the people mentioned.
they were in marketing, not PR.
 
Saying that two senior directors have little knowledge about sale expectations for their former employer is a wild statement at best. What is going on in this topic?
Zelda is like a weird poison that overtakes rationale for some Nintendo fans.

I feel inclined to agree with Kit and Krysta's hypothesis given their former positions, and just seeing the data for myself. I'm sure Nintendo is happy with TOTK selling 20 million in such a short time, but people have to also keep in mind that Nintendo is a corporation whose goal is to maximize potential profits. The fact that the game has no legs, had online discussion disappear after a week, and won't reach the sales of the original BOTW very likely troubles the higher-ups to a certain degree.
 
they were in marketing, not PR.

Except that they were actually managers in PR, then in digital marketing afterwards (where they complained in retrospect, if I understand correctly, that they were doing...marketing).


Both PR and digital marketing were communications jobs. That's my point. Neither job involved defining a financial strategy or sales targets. And that's not a criticism, their skills were other, certainly valuable but just had nothing to do with it.

That doesn't mean they can't have an interesting opinion. Good for you if you enjoy their content. People who don't, however, are no less legitimate or relevant than anyone else to say so and to explain why, as long as it's respectful.
 
I really don't understand why the most basic ass late cycle sequel sales behaviour sparks all this controversy. TotK opened super high and seems to be frontloaded, with smaller legs than BotW. If you look at basically any other same franchise sequel on the Switch you'll see the exact same behaviour: Splatoon 3, Xenoblade 3, Fire Emblem Engage (well I think this one probably opened lower than Three Houses, but still).

Other than that, IF TotK ends up selling less than BotW then that's also a completely normal behaviour for a sequel on the same hardware. SMB sold more than SMB3, DKC1 outsold DKC2 and DKC3, Final Fantasy VII outsold FFVIII and FFIX, Super Mario Galaxy outsold SMG2, etc.

IMO, this is a complete non-story so far, ignoring the fact that we only have like 3 quarters of sales for TotK so painting a full picture for its performance yet is impossible.
 
Zelda is like a weird poison that overtakes rationale for some Nintendo fans.

I feel inclined to agree with Kit and Krysta's hypothesis given their former positions, and just seeing the data for myself. I'm sure Nintendo is happy with TOTK selling 20 million in such a short time, but people have to also keep in mind that Nintendo is a corporation whose goal is to maximize potential profits. The fact that the game has no legs, had online discussion disappear after a week, and won't reach the sales of the original BOTW very likely troubles the higher-ups to a certain degree.
The heck are you even talking about?

And to the whole "legs" conversation: You do realize that the reason BOTW had the legs it did is because the Switch just launched and people were slowly buying the system w/ BOTW as it was restocked? TOTK sold so much in the beginning because the audience for the game (See: The people who bought BOTW) already had a Switch. Sales tapered off because the audience was already in the ecosystem. It didn't match BOTW because not all 30 million people liked it enough to buy it again. That's what happens with direct sequels!

Do people really easy say "bigger number = better" and just call it a day?
 
Both PR and digital marketing were communications jobs. That's my point. Neither job involved defining a financial strategy or sales targets. And that's not a criticism, their skills were other, certainly valuable but just had nothing to do with it.
They didn't set financial goals but there were absolutely sales targets they were expected to meet in their positions in marketing. I work as a software developer but I still know about sales goals our department has.
 
I'm surprised at the back lash Kit and Krysta are getting. When they announced their farewell from Nintendo I thought the sentiment here was generally positive. Maybe it was and they've since not lived up to what people wanted. I never particularly like The Nintendo Minute. Their personalities and opinions were a little too safe and too soft for me and that's coming from a guy who doesn't even curse, lol.

However with that said, ever so often I've listened in to their new show and have been pleasantly surprised with the insight they've given into actually working at Nintendo. They are a lot more enjoyable than I initially thought, though I still get this sense they still work like the Big N is still watching...

When it comes to the actual topic at hand. The title of the video had me listen in entirely and I think their take is pretty reasonable.
 


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