Garbage Galaxy JRPGs are RPGs developed in Japan

[Oheao]

I know there is a lot of debate over what constitutes a JRPG, but I have this relatively simple formula:
1. Is the game an RPG?
2. Was the game developed in Japan?

If it meets those two criteria, then yes!

Thus, Dark Souls is a JRPG

 

[Apopheniac]

Wow, it works! Now all we need to do is nail down what an RPG is, but that's the easy part.

 

[AquaWateria]

 

[Oheao]

Wow, it works! Now all we need to do is nail down what an RPG is, but that's the easy part.

Indeed, video games are very developed solely in one country now as multiple studios work on a game, so what "developed in Japan" even constitutes is surely something that hasn't been fully determined.

 

[E.Gadd]

If Dark Souls is a JRPG then what the heck is a SoulsBourne?

 

[Oheao]

If Dark Souls is a JRPG then what the heck is a SoulsBourne?

What you should really ask is if the Demon's Souls remake is a JRPG.

 

[NarohDethan]

What you should really ask is if the Demon's Souls remake is a JRPG.

Yesn't

 

[E.Gadd]

What you should really ask is if the Demon's Souls remake is a JRPG.

Ha.

I think you mean, remaster.

 

[lemonfresh]

People need to understand that jrpg does not equal turn based, look at ys, mana, kingdom hearts, final fantasy xv etc... they are all considered jrpg's despite being action based so why cant dark souls/bloodborne/eldin ring be jrpg's. If it's the "anime aesthetic" souls games are anime as fuck they are based on one of the most popular manga berserk and junji itos works for bloodborne. So yeah they are very much jrpg's

 

[hologram]

I hear Bezos himself is overseeing an Amazon-developed, graphically beautiful game which by definition would be a JRPG.

Spoiler

Jeffrey's Real Pretty Game

 

[FiveOVER]

While its true that a game being turn-based or action does not determine if its Jrpg, there are definitely certain qualifying elements that DO determine if it lies in the Jrpg spectrum outside of being developed in Japan:

1. Linear story. (with minor branching paths/endings)
2. Party-based combat.
3. Interactions between party members.

among others. Before you say other genres have these elements too, it is the combination of these elements that make a Jrpg. Same with the exceptions. All genres have games that stray from one or two elements, same with Jrpgs.

 

[bellydrum]

I thought the J stood for Jupiter. Damn.

 

[Dunban]

I see no reason to disagree. I'd go one step further and say JRPG isn't really a genre either. Some people see it as one and will give it qualifiers and conditions, but I think trying to do that really defeats the point of using the term with the amount of exceptions you'll find.

 

[Benzychenz]

Undertale is a JRPG and is not developed in Japan so this definition is incorrect.

 

[SammyJ9]

It USED to mean that, but these days it’s more “game in a similar style to RPGs made in Japan back in the day”. So that way, some western games can still be JRPGs. I suppose that you could call them JRPG-likes instead if they’re not Japanese, but that seems kind of excessive, just call it a JRPG.

What then would you call a western-style RPG made in Japan, that’s another good question.

(Also Dark Souls can’t be a JRPG because it’s not an RPG at all, it’s an action game. I will not be taking questions at this time.)

(Also I know this is all silly and rather pointless, it’s all in good fun )

 

[NabiscoFelt]

People always use the Dark Souls example, but that's weak.

The real question is whether or not Dragon's Dogma is a JRPG

 

[SuperFakerBros]

I'd say JRPG is a style of game, much like WRPG is. So a Japanese team can make a WRPG and a Western team can make a JRPG. Like, if someone asked you for a JRPG, you'd never say Dark Souls but you would say Final Fantasy, Persona, Pokemon, Shin Megami Tensei, Undertale, Bug Fables, etc.

 

[Lord Azrael]

Technically yes. But I prefer to think of it as Japanese-inspired RPG instead, because there are a lot of games that are technically WRPGs but are much more similar to JRPGs. I'm not gonna recommend Undertale to someone because they told me they like Skyrim, much like I'm not gonna recommend Bloodborne to someone because they told me they like Chrono Trigger. It's a much more useful distinction to think of it as a style of game rather than place of origin, though yes, we would need different genre names in that case

 

[Heron]

If I ran my own forum I think I'd use a word filter to replace "rpg" with "video game". Or "rpg systems" with "leveling systems".

No, it doesn't work in all contexts but it would move people away from what is now a completely meaningless term. When people say something is an RPG or a JRPG it no longer tells me anything at all about the game.

In my opinion, Dark Souls isn't a JRPG because it's not an RPG.

 

[Koyota]

JRPG History went the way of

Ultima/ Wizardry Influenced -> Dragon Quest -> Dragon Quest was so successful that pretty much everything on this branch afterwards was DQ influenced instead of Ultima

Wizardry Influenced -> Phantasy Star etc, Many Years later Kings Field (originally was suppose to be a PC game),From Software lineage

What is interesting is JP Games like Lunatic Dawn (Came out on PlayStation) that seem like games out of time:
Released 10 years after DQ boom, in the mid-to-late 90`s but directly cribbing from Ultima style CRPGS instead of DQ.

 

[sir_AnGer]

I think to determine what makes or doesn't make a "JRPG", it's important to ask WHEN we started calling them that. According to this reddit thread leading to a now-dead Google Group, a magazine may have coined the term in 1995 with another user recalling that they've seen the term used sporadically in magazines over the course of the fifth generation of consoles. The term definitely broke through during the tail-end of the sixth generation and was firmly established during the seventh generation, so we're talking about the latter half of the noughties.

What spurred this development was the arrival of western-developed role-playing games such as Mass Effect, Fallout, and The Elder Scrolls on consoles, which had previously been exclusively published on home computers (some exceptions apply, such as the SNES and Genesis games based on the Shadowrun P&P RPG, a few scattered ports and spin-offs of Ultima and some others, same way vice-versa with quite a few "JRPG" being on Japanese home computers such as the MSX, FM Towns, Sharp X68000 and NEC's PC-88 and 98), which required a new way (at least, for us in the West - I've never seen any Japanese company use the term "JRPG" outside of a very cringey commercial for Imageepoch's attempt at reviving the genre and we probably all know their story) to differentiate the two.

And thus, "JRPG" was canonized.

So, what actually makes a "JRPG"? Some people say it's the adherence to turn-based combat, but by that measure, a lot of "JRPG", including Xenoblade, Tales and Final Fantasy post-IV (yes, ATB is not turn-based combat even though it's menu-operated) would not fit the term. A better case can maybe made for "group combat", but there are numerous examples of western-developed RPG going as far back as the first Ultima (which in turn influenced series such as Dragon Quest, Shining in the Darkness and Phantasy Star) and there's still some to date and vice-versa there have been a plethora of "JRPG" where there's never more than one character in your group (the "first 'JRPG' series", Dragon Quest, only had one playable character in the debut title). Someone here mentioned "linear storylines" but that's also very frequently found in "WRPG", I'd like to argue "WRPG" are just better at obfuscating their linearity.

So overall... I think it's mostly an arbitrary separation based on aesthetics and tinged with a smidge of a sense of superiority since the term came up shortly before it became popular to dunk on "JRPG" in the early 10s for a bit. They're both RPG and any further differentiation is unnecessary in my book.

Also, I say the Souls series isn't an RPG series, it's an "action game" in the same vein as Ys/Xanadu. Neither are Atelier and Mana Khemia, they're Alchemy Simulations with RPG combat elements. But that also goes to show what a weird term "RPG" itself is - like, you could make the argument that Grand Theft Auto and Tokimeki Memorial, two series classified as "action-adventure" and "dating sim"/"visual novel"/"ADV" respectively, can potentially claim to be "RPG"...

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

It’s true

 

[xsquiddox]

Mild shock gif

 

[Mnementh]

Yeah, it was always weird to separate a genre after it's country of origin. Nothing japanese games did that can be used as separation (turn-based, party, story) wasn't also done before in western RPGs. I think though, that for many gamers, the ones only playing on consoles, these western RPGs were invisible, as they were mostly developed for PC.

Instead of separating for country, we should separate RPGs by their main gameplay distinction. Action or turn-based. Party vs. a seingle hero. That works for other genres. Shooters are separated in side-scrolling, FPS and TPS.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

While its true that a game being turn-based or action does not determine if its Jrpg, there are definitely certain qualifying elements that DO determine if it lies in the Jrpg spectrum outside of being developed in Japan:

1. Linear story. (with minor branching paths/endings)
2. Party-based combat.
3. Interactions between party members.

among others. Before you say other genres have these elements too, it is the combination of these elements that make a Jrpg. Same with the exceptions. All genres have games that stray from one or two elements, same with Jrpgs.

By this definition Panzer Dragoon Saga wouldn‘t count as a JRPG (even though it obviously is) because it doesn‘t have party-based combat.

Also, how are we counting "exceptions that stray from one or two elements" when you only have 3 elements in total? Remove the party-based combat from this list and you're describing Uncharted.

 

[FrostyLemon]

I'd say traditionally it meant turn based combat, linear story, anime/unrealistic art style and controlling a main character and party members with established identities, backtories and personalites.

Nowadays it just means anime with stats.

Using geography is a nonsense way to define a genre tbh. May as well have called them FanQuest games.

 

[Nakapol]

DragonQuest-like genre
problem solve

 

[Joseki]

"Yes, I think a JRPG is a RPG developed by Japanese devs, how could you tell?"

 

[Pineapple Pizza]

I'm guilty of telling folk I like JRPGs and of assuming they will know what I mean. Genres have always, and will always be, contentious and fuzzy and suspect. They need qualifiers, context, shared understanding. I don't mind the term but I suppose it's good to use some games as a reference point... Like JRPG in the vein of NES-era Final Fantasy, or modern JRPGs such as Xenoblade Chronicles. And genres overlap. You can absolutely have a platform based JRPG. Ah I am feeling well out of my depth now and will enjoy the rest of the discussion.

 

[Quasi]

What you should really ask is if the Demon's Souls remake is a JRPG.

Undertale is a JRPG and is not developed in Japan so this definition is incorrect.

They aren't. Both games are distinctly Western. JRPGs have a certain je ne sais quoi that makes them instantly recognisable as being a Japanese game. Even the most 'westernised" Japanese games like Dragon's Dogma have that. It's something that Bluepoint remakes have very much lost.

 

[lemonfresh]

While its true that a game being turn-based or action does not determine if its Jrpg, there are definitely certain qualifying elements that DO determine if it lies in the Jrpg spectrum outside of being developed in Japan:

1. Linear story. (with minor branching paths/endings)
2. Party-based combat.
3. Interactions between party members.

among others. Before you say other genres have these elements too, it is the combination of these elements that make a Jrpg. Same with the exceptions. All genres have games that stray from one or two elements, same with Jrpgs.

Is dragon quest 1 not a jrpg then? It has no party members

 

[Yzz]

Scooby-Doo is an anime

 

[Ramune]

It's funny that my career often involves categorising and classifying things but the "what is a (J)RPG" question gives me the dry boak.

Scooby-Doo is an anime

"And it all would have gone according to keikaku if it wasn't for those meddling kohai!"

 

[GamerJM]

I think a JRPG is generally a somewhat linear game (one designed around story progression, the overworld might have lots of sidequests and extra places you can go and explore but the "meat" of the game is a mainline story-driven adventure) where when you enter a battle, you transition to another battle screen. This means that I think even stuff like FF15 should be counted as a WRPG, despite Final Fantasy being the grandaddy of RPGs. It also means that Undertale falls cleanly into the JRPG category. I realize this is a very unpopular opinion.

Also I think Souls should probably be its own subgenre, like SRPGs.

 

[Sheldon]

Thank you for bringing this to the table early so Famiboards can formulate an official policy on the matter.

My contribution: Dark Souls can't be an JRPG because we don't seperate Action-RPGs into Action-JRPGs and Action-WRPGs. They are simply Action-RPGs.

If Action-RPG is not acceptable, then as the next most fitting genre Dark Souls must be categorized as Euro Jank.

 

[GamerJM]

Thank you for bringing this matter to the table early so Famiboards can formulate an official policy on the matter.

My contribution: Dark Souls can't be an JRPG because we don't seperate Action-RPGs into Action-JRPGs and Action-WRPGs. They are simply Action-RPGs.

If Action-RPG is not acceptable, then as the next most fitting genre Dark Souls must be categorized as Euro Jank.

The issue I have with this categorization is that it puts stuff like Tales of and Star Ocean into the same category as Dark Souls and Skyrim just because their combat is real-time action based, even though in terms of progression and structure they have way more in common with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest than anything else.

 

[Helix]

JRPG isn't a genre but a state of mind is my contribution to this thread.

 

[Cahedron]

Yall weebs better stick to OPs definition, otherwise YiiK is an JRPG

 

[Sheldon]

The issue I have with this categorization is that it puts stuff like Tales of and Star Ocean into the same category as Dark Souls and Skyrim just because their combat is real-time action based, even though in terms of progression and structure they have way more in common with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest than anything else.

I'm not familiar with the combat system of Star Ocean, but in my own usage games like Xenoblade or the newer Final Fantasies remain JRPGs same as Sykrim remains a (W)RPG, because stat points are still what ultimately determines and limits progress. At best, mastery of the real-time combat allows one to beat a boss a couple levels earlier than someone who fumbles through. Only when a player's action skills can overcome their character's lack of gear or levels to a significant degree, does a game become an Action-RPG. Monster Hunter is one example of such a title where you can advance a great deal towards the end of the story without ever upgrading armor or weapons if you're good enough - and, on the other hand, equipment can make up for insufficent ability, so both Action and RPG elements are equally important.

That approach is consistent with us not classifying Third-Person-Shooters or First-Person-Shooters as TPS-RPGs/FPS-RPGs as soon as they incorporate some small roleplaying-elements which only have a minor impact on whether a player successfully completes a campaign or not.

 

[NabiscoFelt]

It USED to mean that, but these days it’s more “game in a similar style to RPGs made in Japan back in the day”. So that way, some western games can still be JRPGs. I suppose that you could call them JRPG-likes instead if they’re not Japanese, but that seems kind of excessive, just call it a JRPG.

What then would you call a western-style RPG made in Japan, that’s another good question.

(Also Dark Souls can’t be a JRPG because it’s not an RPG at all, it’s an action game. I will not be taking questions at this time.)

(Also I know this is all silly and rather pointless, it’s all in good fun )

If I ran my own forum I think I'd use a word filter to replace "rpg" with "video game". Or "rpg systems" with "leveling systems".

No, it doesn't work in all contexts but it would move people away from what is now a completely meaningless term. When people say something is an RPG or a JRPG it no longer tells me anything at all about the game.

In my opinion, Dark Souls isn't a JRPG because it's not an RPG.

Ok, I'll bite.

How is Dark Souls not an RPG?

 

[Benzychenz]

Ok, I'll bite.

How is Dark Souls not an RPG?

Lol this. Dark Souls is an RPG ass RPG. Gear, stats, build variety, side quests.

 

[SammyJ9]

Ok, I'll bite.

How is Dark Souls not an RPG?

It's an action game with RPG elements. At least to me, a lot of games have various levels of RPG-ness, but for Dark Souls I'd say that 'action game' is the PRIMARY focus, even though the RPG elements are also pretty prominent.

I admit it's a grey area. To me, Dark Souls is either an action game, or really it's just its own genre, Soulsborne. Or, if it must be called an RPG, then sure it's an RPG, but I wouldn't call it a JRPG by any stretch.

(yes I am pedantic about this )

 

[Benzychenz]

It's an action game with RPG elements. At least to me, a lot of games have various levels of RPG-ness, but for Dark Souls I'd say that 'action game' is the PRIMARY focus, even though the RPG elements are also pretty prominent.

I admit it's a grey area. To me, Dark Souls is either an action game, or really it's just its own genre, Soulsborne. Or, if it must be called an RPG, then sure it's an RPG, but I wouldn't call it a JRPG by any stretch.

(yes I am pedantic about this )

So you’re saying it’s an Action RPG? That’s a wild idea but it just might work

 

[SammyJ9]

So you’re saying it’s an Action RPG? That’s a wild idea but it just might work

I could agree with action RPG, sure. I thought we were arguing about it being a JRPG, which I DEFINITELY disagree with, though. Not that it's super important, of course

 

[Lord Azrael]

Here's a real hot button topic for ya... Is Monster Hunter a JRPG?

 

[Benzychenz]

Here's a real hot button topic for ya... Is Monster Hunter a JRPG?

The big thing that stops MH being an RPG to me is that you don’t have any permanent levels and stats, it’s all tied to the gear you have equipped, so there’s no commitment to any build.

 

[Yzz]

Here's a real hot button topic for ya... Is Monster Hunter a JRPG?

You control only one character who doesn't talk, so same thing as FromSoft games?

 

[Heron]

Ok, I'll bite.

How is Dark Souls not an RPG?

Because apportioning stats and doing side quests do not make a game an RPG. Those are just video game systems, that appear in games as diverse as action games (like Dark Souls) to baseball sims. Stats are just part of video games.

RPGs are where your character makes meaningful decisions that impact the story. The idea is that you "role play" (ie play make believe) as your character to make consistent decisions. See Divinity Original Sin; Elder Scrolls etc. You embody a character - mentally - and are given scenarios in which to let that play out.

Dark Souls has more in common with character action games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta than it does the two RPG series I mentioned.

 

[Lord Azrael]

The big thing that stops MH being an RPG to me is that you don’t have any permanent levels and stats, it’s all tied to the gear you have equipped, so there’s no commitment to any build.

That feels like an arbitrary distinction to me though. It's no different than RPGs that let you respec your character builds. Any job-based RPG for example. The more I think about it, I can no longer deny that Monster Hunter is an RPG!!! (though I would call it an ARPG personally, not a JRPG )

 

[Lord Azrael]

Because apportioning stats and doing side quests do not make a game an RPG. Those are just video game systems, that appear in games as diverse as action games (like Dark Souls) to baseball sims. Stats are just part of video games.

RPGs are where your character makes meaningful decisions that impact the story. The idea is that you "role play" (ie play make believe) as your character to make consistent decisions. See Divinity Original Sin; Elder Scrolls etc. You embody a character - mentally - and are given scenarios in which to let that play out.

Dark Souls has more in common with character action games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta than it does the two RPG series I mentioned.

You do roleplay though. The Souls franchise has plenty of permanent branching consequences, far more than many JRPGs in fact. And you have huge control over build customization, another aspect of roleplaying. Story agency isn't the only aspect, otherwise plenty of visual novels/adventure games would be classified as RPGs under such a definition.