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Discussion James Gunn And Peter Safran Named Co-Chairmen And CEOs Of DC Studios

Christo750

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https://deadline.com/2022/10/dc-films-james-gunn-peter-safran-warner-bros-discovery-1235154682/

I have lots of semi-conflicting thoughts on this.

First, it's really a shame that Disney/Feige reacted so quickly in firing Gunn because they likely fed him to DC. This is also probably why Guardians 3 is the end of the line for those characters/why Gunn isn't returning after that; this deal has probably been in the works for a while.

As for the actual decision, I'm conflicted. It's quality leadership but I do worry about conflicting tones from here on out. The Suicide Squad was good but just felt like a Rated-R Marvel movie. I know people have their feelings on past DCEU movies but I hope this isn't going further in the direction of throwing everything out. There's lots of good to proceed with without heavy intervention from the studio.

Either way, it's clear that the things I like the DCEU for, no one else does. So I'm probably not getting what I want out of it anyway. I do see major shakeups continuing to happen over there, and I gotta wonder how long those two will stay on. Feels like it could also be a transitionary hiring before they find someone more permanent.
 
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James Gunn is a talented guy who can probably execute on a connected vision, but I'm worried the tone is just going to ape the one he set at Marvel, which is already overplayed there after how well-received it was in the Guardians movies.

DC has the chance to provide something different tonally than the increasingly tired irreverent and incessant quippage of Marvel, but with Gunn helming things, they may double down on it and further oversaturate the genre with that formula even more.
 
James Gunn is a talented guy who can probably execute on a connected vision, but I'm worried the tone is just going to ape the one he set at Marvel, which is already overplayed there after how well-received it was in the Guardians movies.

DC has the chance to provide something different tonally than the increasingly tired irreverent and incessant quippage of Marvel, but with Gunn helming things, they may double down on it and further oversaturate the genre with that formula even more.
Curious; how do you feel about the DC movies thus far? And I mean all of them since Man of Steel up to Black Adam. Because I agree with you; the quippage and gags and constant undercutting of serious moments with humor are the worst. The things I like about DC characters are actually their complete lack of relatability. I don't want to see myself in Superman because if Superman actually did exist, the problems presented in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman would actually be pretty legitimate concerns. That was the direction they were going with but got cut off at the knees because Marvel was making a few million more dollars.

But even now, with Henry Cavill returning to Superman in a way that seems like they're trying to bring his overall vibe back to the corny fucking Richard Donner Superman (even using John Williams' theme), I worry again about tone. The "serious" nature was never the problem with DC movies. In fact, Marvel and DC movies have pretty parallel problems. Where Marvel movies are lazily formulaic, DC movies are relentlessly focus-grouped. Marvel will put out samey, toothless shlock for years and think it's the best thing ever. DC is never confident about a single film they deliver. Not even Snyder's JL (which, unpopular opinion, might be the best CB movie in the last 5 years), and that was basically guaranteed to be a slam dunk with the fans. But all promotion of it basically stopped 2 weeks after it came out. It was no longer used to promote HBO Max. Snyder's ties were officially severed. They pulled The Batman from theaters not even a month after its debut; maybe cutting it's box office legs. I know it was an HBO Max push but still. Top Gun Maverick is STILL in theaters close to 5 months later, there's no reason why they couldn't have kept The Batman for another month or two. Batgirl, a completed movie, just got fucking axed for no good reason.

Even Black Adam. It's fun, but messy and stuffed to the brim with things you can tell were only added to curb audience reactions to it being too grimdark. Felt like a reactionary DC movie from 2017. But its purpose and statement for Black Adam as an anti-hero is pretty stellar! Justice Society has always existed but never helped Kahndaq. Black Adam may murder but he is a hero to those people. It's a great breeding ground for an actual fucking interesting conflict that has roots in reality (built up for the obvious next move, which is a Superman v Black Adam thing). But at the moment, I don't think there's someone who can actually make that visually or creatively interesting. Under Gunn, I worry it's just going to have tons of jokes and be campy as fuck.

This turned into a rant but I've been thinking about this for a while now and it bums me out.
 
before this thread I genuinely thought black adam was a marvel movie

I've been calling it a marvel movie for weeks. I wonder if people thought I was joking
 
Curious; how do you feel about the DC movies thus far? And I mean all of them since Man of Steel up to Black Adam. Because I agree with you; the quippage and gags and constant undercutting of serious moments with humor are the worst. The things I like about DC characters are actually their complete lack of relatability. I don't want to see myself in Superman because if Superman actually did exist, the problems presented in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman would actually be pretty legitimate concerns. That was the direction they were going with but got cut off at the knees because Marvel was making a few million more dollars.

But even now, with Henry Cavill returning to Superman in a way that seems like they're trying to bring his overall vibe back to the corny fucking Richard Donner Superman (even using John Williams' theme), I worry again about tone. The "serious" nature was never the problem with DC movies. In fact, Marvel and DC movies have pretty parallel problems. Where Marvel movies are lazily formulaic, DC movies are relentlessly focus-grouped. Marvel will put out samey, toothless shlock for years and think it's the best thing ever. DC is never confident about a single film they deliver. Not even Snyder's JL (which, unpopular opinion, might be the best CB movie in the last 5 years), and that was basically guaranteed to be a slam dunk with the fans. But all promotion of it basically stopped 2 weeks after it came out. It was no longer used to promote HBO Max. Snyder's ties were officially severed. They pulled The Batman from theaters not even a month after its debut; maybe cutting it's box office legs. I know it was an HBO Max push but still. Top Gun Maverick is STILL in theaters close to 5 months later, there's no reason why they couldn't have kept The Batman for another month or two. Batgirl, a completed movie, just got fucking axed for no good reason.

Even Black Adam. It's fun, but messy and stuffed to the brim with things you can tell were only added to curb audience reactions to it being too grimdark. Felt like a reactionary DC movie from 2017. But its purpose and statement for Black Adam as an anti-hero is pretty stellar! Justice Society has always existed but never helped Kahndaq. Black Adam may murder but he is a hero to those people. It's a great breeding ground for an actual fucking interesting conflict that has roots in reality (built up for the obvious next move, which is a Superman v Black Adam thing). But at the moment, I don't think there's someone who can actually make that visually or creatively interesting. Under Gunn, I worry it's just going to have tons of jokes and be campy as fuck.

This turned into a rant but I've been thinking about this for a while now and it bums me out.
I never got much into the DCEU (aside from being impressed with Nolan's Batman films, which I don't think count?) but I remember loving Man of Steel, skipping BVS and JL because all my friends hated them before it even came out, then eventually, eventually watching Snyder's JL and being seriously blown away. And then I got disappointed because the Justice League Trilogy he had tried to set up would probably never go anywhere, and now with Gunn leading the charge that's likely the case. I genuinely wish we had gotten the full Snyderverse without the studio meddling, cutting him out and trying to turn the DCEU into the MCU.

And I'm not a comic book fan! And I don't know anything about DC comics! I just know Man of Steel and the Snyder Cut were a couple of my favorite comic book movies, as far as movies go. A lot of comic fans tell me they're shit, but I loved them. And if we're gonna get the Gunniverse now then.. well.. cool for Guardians fans, I guess 🤷‍♂️
 
I love Man of Steel. I think Wonder Woman is 2/3s of a phenomenal film, and 1/3 a clunky one. I greatly enjoy Zack Snyder's Justice League, warts and all. I think Batman v Superman is a cinematic abomination and that Snyder should have never been given the keys to the kingdom. Ditto for Suicide Squad. Make that a triple for Josstice League.

Since then, we got the absurd, visually inspired, corny, gorgeously directed Aquaman, which I had a blast with despite clear script deficiencies; Shazam!, which is a total delight of a film with one of the best, most moving scripts in the DCU; Birds of Prey, which - for all the online hate - I actually had quite a bit of fun with and LOVED Black Mask; The Suicide Squad, which was another well-written banger for me w/ some ballsy political commentary for a CBM; and Black Adam, which - barring Wonder Woman 1984 - is the worst DC movie in my eyes since the BvS/SS/JL days.

Outside of the universe, we also got Joker, which, love it or hate it, was a billion-dollar, Academy-Award-winning pop-culture phenomenon with a pretty creative-sounding sequel on the way, and The Batman - the greatest movie to come out of this IP since The Dark Knight, imo. Ditto for Peacemaker on the small screen, which is my favorite DC television show.

I think there is a zero percent chance that every DC show and film under Gunn and Safran's guiding hands becomes homogenized like much of the MCU. Gunn was offered a solo Superman film years ago and declined because he admitted he didn't think he understood the character well enough to tackle it. Combine Gunn's creative mind with Safran's business-oriented mind - responsible for Aquaman, which is the highest-grossing DC movie ever (not adjusted for inflation), Shazam!, The Suicide Squad, and Peacemaker - and I personally am ECSTATIC about this news.

I've long argued that Feige needs someone to help carry the MCU weight, especially now that we've hit this oversaturation point between their film and TV offerings. It's too much, and the quality is dipping as a result. They have a long way to go, but Gunn and Safran joining creative and business-minded forces is the best news to come out of DC in forever - especially with Matt Reeves still developing his Batman universe and Cavill returning. I've never been more hopeful for the brand.
 
I never got much into the DCEU (aside from being impressed with Nolan's Batman films, which I don't think count?) but I remember loving Man of Steel, skipping BVS and JL because all my friends hated them before it even came out, then eventually, eventually watching Snyder's JL and being seriously blown away. And then I got disappointed because the Justice League Trilogy he had tried to set up would probably never go anywhere, and now with Gunn leading the charge that's likely the case. I genuinely wish we had gotten the full Snyderverse without the studio meddling, cutting him out and trying to turn the DCEU into the MCU.

And I'm not a comic book fan! And I don't know anything about DC comics! I just know Man of Steel and the Snyder Cut were a couple of my favorite comic book movies, as far as movies go. A lot of comic fans tell me they're shit, but I loved them. And if we're gonna get the Gunniverse now then.. well.. cool for Guardians fans, I guess 🤷‍♂️
This post makes me soooooo happy lmao I LOOOOVE Man of Steel. It’s criminally underrated/misunderstood. Some of the script doesn’t land but it’s direction made for a truly interesting Superman.
 
I love Man of Steel. I think Wonder Woman is 2/3s of a phenomenal film, and 1/3 a clunky one. I greatly enjoy Zack Snyder's Justice League, warts and all. I think Batman v Superman is a cinematic abomination and that Snyder should have never been given the keys to the kingdom. Ditto for Suicide Squad. Make that a triple for Josstice League.

Since then, we got the absurd, visually inspired, corny, gorgeously directed Aquaman, which I had a blast with despite clear script deficiencies; Shazam!, which is a total delight of a film with one of the best, most moving scripts in the DCU; Birds of Prey, which - for all the online hate - I actually had quite a bit of fun with and LOVED Black Mask; The Suicide Squad, which was another well-written banger for me w/ some ballsy political commentary for a CBM; and Black Adam, which - barring Wonder Woman 1984 - is the worst DC movie in my eyes since the BvS/SS/JL days.

Outside of the universe, we also got Joker, which, love it or hate it, was a billion-dollar, Academy-Award-winning pop-culture phenomenon with a pretty creative-sounding sequel on the way, and The Batman - the greatest movie to come out of this IP since The Dark Knight, imo. Ditto for Peacemaker on the small screen, which is my favorite DC television show.

I think there is a zero percent chance that every DC show and film under Gunn and Safran's guiding hands becomes homogenized like much of the MCU. Gunn was offered a solo Superman film years ago and declined because he admitted he didn't think he understood the character well enough to tackle it. Combine Gunn's creative mind with Safran's business-oriented mind - responsible for Aquaman, which is the highest-grossing DC movie ever (not adjusted for inflation), Shazam!, The Suicide Squad, and Peacemaker - and I personally am ECSTATIC about this news.

I've long argued that Feige needs someone to help carry the MCU weight, especially now that we've hit this oversaturation point between their film and TV offerings. It's too much, and the quality is dipping as a result. They have a long way to go, but Gunn and Safran joining creative and business-minded forces is the best news to come out of DC in forever - especially with Matt Reeves still developing his Batman universe and Cavill returning. I've never been more hopeful for the brand.
I agree with most of the movie takes, while remaining cautious about the Gunn news. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading about the Superman offer he got. He probably did the right thing at the time.

Batman v Superman I’ve never hated, but always thought the movie was essentially a fleshed out concept trailer. Too many missing pieces and weird edits. This was all until I saw the Ultimate Edition. While the movie still isn’t perfect, it restores the connective tissue, it gives Cavill a lot more time on screen, and gives the movie a sense of intrigue. The studio still fucked up by forcing Zack’s hand to rush the story, but I think the Ultimate Edition did as best as possible with the concept.

Black Adam, I agree, isn’t great. It has great moments, and a great underlying template for an anti-hero story, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, it feels like it was stitched together by focus groups. Wonder Woman 1984 on the other hand, is front-to-back, side-to-side, top-to-bottom, the fucking worst thing I ever did see. I cannot for the life of me understand what happened with the production of this movie. It’s worse than 2016 SS, to be honest.

Eclipsing all of the Gunn news is still Cavill’s return (and frankly Affleck’s return in Aquaman 2). He deserved another shot. Just hope they don’t ham him up too much.
 
I agree with most of the movie takes, while remaining cautious about the Gunn news. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading about the Superman offer he got. He probably did the right thing at the time.

Batman v Superman I’ve never hated, but always thought the movie was essentially a fleshed out concept trailer. Too many missing pieces and weird edits. This was all until I saw the Ultimate Edition. While the movie still isn’t perfect, it restores the connective tissue, it gives Cavill a lot more time on screen, and gives the movie a sense of intrigue. The studio still fucked up by forcing Zack’s hand to rush the story, but I think the Ultimate Edition did as best as possible with the concept.

Black Adam, I agree, isn’t great. It has great moments, and a great underlying template for an anti-hero story, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, it feels like it was stitched together by focus groups. Wonder Woman 1984 on the other hand, is front-to-back, side-to-side, top-to-bottom, the fucking worst thing I ever did see. I cannot for the life of me understand what happened with the production of this movie. It’s worse than 2016 SS, to be honest.

Eclipsing all of the Gunn news is still Cavill’s return (and frankly Affleck’s return in Aquaman 2). He deserved another shot. Just hope they don’t ham him up too much.
For the Snyder fans, Cavill and Affleck's return are huge. But from what I'm hearing, Affleck shot a cameo for Aquaman 2. It doesn't seem like anything notable - certainly not on the caliber of DC's entire cinematic rebranding. And I consider myself a Snyder fan - love Man of Steel, Watchmen, Dawn of the Dead, and I like his cut of Justice League quite a bit.

WW84 is really bad, but I can't say it's worse than SS 2016 or Josstice League, personally. There are emotionally resonant moments for me in 84 amid all the awfulness, whereas Suicide Squad is an incoherent music video and...well, we all know how embarrassing 2017 JL is. I've seen the BvS Ultimate Cut and it is an improvement, but conceptually I'll never understand or support making a Batman v Superman movie that overstuffed and convoluted. I hate the film's interpretation of Lex in execution, too.

I think my DCU ranking goes something like:

Man of Steel > The Suicide Squad > Shazam! > Wonder Woman > Zack Snyder's Justice League > Birds of Prey > Aquaman > Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition > Black Adam > Wonder Woman 1984 > Justice League (2017) > Suicide Squad

My top 3 are fairly interchangeable. Ask me on a different day, and you'd probably get a different answer!
 
For the Snyder fans, Cavill and Affleck's return are huge. But from what I'm hearing, Affleck shot a cameo for Aquaman 2. It doesn't seem like anything notable - certainly not on the caliber of DC's entire cinematic rebranding. And I consider myself a Snyder fan - love Man of Steel, Watchmen, Dawn of the Dead, and I like his cut of Justice League quite a bit.

WW84 is really bad, but I can't say it's worse than SS 2016 or Josstice League, personally. There are emotionally resonant moments for me in 84 amid all the awfulness, whereas Suicide Squad is an incoherent music video and...well, we all know how embarrassing 2017 JL is. I've seen the BvS Ultimate Cut and it is an improvement, but conceptually I'll never understand or support making a Batman v Superman movie that overstuffed and convoluted. I hate the film's interpretation of Lex in execution, too.

I think my DCU ranking goes something like:

Man of Steel > The Suicide Squad > Shazam! > Wonder Woman > Zack Snyder's Justice League > Birds of Prey > Aquaman > Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition > Black Adam > Wonder Woman 1984 > Justice League (2017) > Suicide Squad

My top 3 are fairly interchangeable. Ask me on a different day, and you'd probably get a different answer!
Hmm… well it may not be much but honestly any Batfleck I can get is good. Best on-screen Batman by a mile.
 
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For the Snyder fans, Cavill and Affleck's return are huge. But from what I'm hearing, Affleck shot a cameo for Aquaman 2. It doesn't seem like anything notable - certainly not on the caliber of DC's entire cinematic rebranding. And I consider myself a Snyder fan - love Man of Steel, Watchmen, Dawn of the Dead, and I like his cut of Justice League quite a bit.
Battfleck being in Aquaman is new, because the original rumor was only for a cameo in hhe flash. But with everything being shuffled around because of what's coming ahead, he got the part in Aquaman. The new rumor is he has a contract for his own trilogy. Allegedly they're pitching Keaton Batman beyond.

I'm cautiously hopeful for the future, Snyder is the most politically left a Blockbuster director has ever been, seeing him thrive again has been awesome. I'm looking forward to rebel Moon and whatever else he makes, but (if)he wants to play with the DC toys, I'm excited to see what he does next.

As far as the return of Superman, Snyder's whole plan was to have the arc end with him being the Superman we know and love. Folks thinking that Snyder's vision is diametrically opposed to what Cavill has been saying, might be upset when they see who's going to be directing.
 
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