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Fun Club How do you rank Scarlet and Violet?

Within the context of pokemon its one of the best with probably the weakest parts being the technical issues and forgettable region. Within the context of switch games its pretty low with how far behind gamefreak feels compared to the other first/second party developers.
I feel like theyre taking steps in the right direction, just that they need more time and hands for optimization
 
I feel like theyre taking steps in the right direction, just that they need more time and hands for optimization
They've said a few times that they don't want to slow down their schedule but as long as they do I think they'll run into trouble, the one potential hope for future games is that they now have project managers(kinda insane that they didn't have any and only starting hiring them a few months before sv's launch)
 
They've said a few times that they don't want to slow down their schedule but as long as they do I think they'll run into trouble, the one potential hope for future games is that they now have project managers(kinda insane that they didn't have any and only starting hiring them a few months before sv's launch)
I presume a Project Manager will ease the symptoms of the problems, what with better time management, but I think we may still see some issues
 
No remakes, because I haven't played most of them.

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BDSP are peak Pokémon and the only reason people put them low are graphics and "boohoo they didn't put Platinum content".
Sorry but it's the truth.
Personally speaking, BDSP is terrible for a variety of reasons, most of which apply to the original DP too:
  • bland ass region that was absolutely fixed in Platinum, which gave it visual variety and even some straight up level design redos.
  • terrible story with nothing of value and nonexistent characters, Platinum at least had a cool set piece during the climax and the expanded lore.
  • visually ugly but not in terms of graphics, just ass art style and color palette in general

It does have great music, great Pokémon designs, and great side content, but that’s something I can say about most Pokémon games that also don’t suffer from the other aforementioned issues.
 
I think Pokemon and I are no longer compatible and that's okay (I have SMT). But I gave it a go anyway.

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Personally speaking, BDSP is terrible for a variety of reasons, most of which apply to the original DP too:
  • bland ass region that was absolutely fixed in Platinum, which gave it visual variety and even some straight up level design redos.
  • terrible story with nothing of value and nonexistent characters, Platinum at least had a cool set piece during the climax and the expanded lore.
  • visually ugly but not in terms of graphics, just ass art style and color palette in general

It does have great music, great Pokémon designs, and great side content, but that’s something I can say about most Pokémon games that also don’t suffer from the other aforementioned issues.
Honestly I feel like a lot of sinnoh fans are really platinum fans that don't realize how much it improve upon diamond and pearl. Other than ilca's soulless art direction bdsp would be fine as a remaster.
I'm always surprised by the number of people who rate S/V so highly. GF can keep producing garbage without worrying.
Yeah I can definitely see why some people enjoy sv but saying the game has issues would be an understatement and it feels like a lot of the fan base is more than fine with the bar being set so low compared to other titles on the switch
 
Honestly I feel like a lot of sinnoh fans are really platinum fans that don't realize how much it improve upon diamond and pearl. Other than ilca's soulless art direction bdsp would be fine as a remaster.
Never played Platinum. I did enjoy Pearl but dropped it before Elite four for requiring too much grinding and the battles being slow but this is why I enjoyed SP. Imo it combines classic Pokémon formula with many qol changes and the game didn't require much grinding. LGPE would have been better since they removed the random encounters but they went too far with the changes by introducing the go catching. So imo for people like me who want the old school Pokémon, BDSP are very good games.
 
Never played Platinum. I did enjoy Pearl but dropped it before Elite four for requiring too much grinding and the battles being slow but this is why I enjoyed SP. Imo it combines classic Pokémon formula with many qol changes and the game didn't require much grinding. LGPE would have been better since they removed the random encounters but they went too far with the changes by introducing the go catching. So imo for people like me who want the old school Pokémon, BDSP are very good games.
I think bdsp ish remasters would've been recieved better if they did gen 5 or hggs since it would've been made with a more solid foundation. Prior to bdsp they set the expectation for remakes that heavily reworked the og games and I think mant didn't just want to revisit sinnoh but rather see how they'd improve it
 
I'm always surprised by the number of people who rate S/V so highly. GF can keep producing garbage without worrying.
Yeah I can definitely see why some people enjoy sv but saying the game has issues would be an understatement and it feels like a lot of the fan base is more than fine with the bar being set so low compared to other titles on the switch
Yes, Scarlet and Violet are a graphical, programming and performance shit show, but like I mentioned in my post, if we ignore that, they're peak Pokemon. I understand and support the very valid concerns with how S/V came out to be, and I love Violet and its a shame how the end product came out, but there's nothing we can do but besides not buying the game.

At least, GameFreak acknowledged that they're gonna focus more on optimization. And now they have a Project Manager. They're taking steps in the right direction, but as always, at their own pace.
 
S/V did some neat stuff but it really didn't earn how big the world is. You do so much exploring just to see more and more of the same Pokemon. Legends did it so much better, even if those were more so just open "zones."
 
S/V did some neat stuff but it really didn't earn how big the world is. You do so much exploring just to see more and more of the same Pokemon. Legends did it so much better, even if those were more so just open "zones."
True, Legends perfected the Sw/Sh Wild Area idea and made it unique. Now it's the next-gen's turn to perfect the open world idea.

And speaking of next gen, how much Gen 1 pandering are we expecting for Gen X, especially since it's may land on the franchise's anniversary?
 
Yes, Scarlet and Violet are a graphical, programming and performance shit show, but like I mentioned in my post, if we ignore that, they're peak Pokemon. I understand and support the very valid concerns with how S/V came out to be, and I love Violet and its a shame how the end product came out, but there's nothing we can do but besides not buying the game.

At least, GameFreak acknowledged that they're gonna focus more on optimization. And now they have a Project Manager. They're taking steps in the right direction, but as always, at their own pace.
I think the battle system, terrastilzation, new pokemon models, music, characters, and finale are some of the best of the series but at the same time as a full price ambitious openworld switch game it feels like an unfinished experience and leaves a lot to be desired

paldea is one of the least interesting regions while also being the largest, the open world element didn't really do much for the game especially with exploration, evironment visuals, and movement being pretty weak, the world and towns feel incrediblly empty with indoor areas being almost completely gone probably due to time constraints. Despite technically having the best graphics of main gen pokemon switch titles the art direction is all over the place with evironment and a fair amount of the characters looking less pleasing than swsh and pla. While the finale is solid the rest of the main campaign is pretty hit or miss. All of that without even touching on the performance issues

It's also made extra frustrating with how a large chunk of the fan base genuinely believe sv is one of the best looking games on the switch and that the performances issues are because of how detailed it is.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here but they've been running into issues since at least swsh and it's getting harder to be charitable to gamefreak each time they mess up another game.
True, Legends perfected the Sw/Sh Wild Area idea and made it unique. Now it's the next-gen's turn to perfect the open world idea.

And speaking of next gen, how much Gen 1 pandering are we expecting for Gen X, especially since it's may land on the franchise's anniversary?
Maybe a little for the dlc, I feel like many have been burnt out on the kanto/gen 1 pandering and the pandering to other gens in the sv dlc was probably because gamefreak caught on to that burn out
 
but at the same time as a full price ambitious openworld switch game it feels like an unfinished experience and leaves a lot to be desired
I agree to this wholeheartedly.

It's also made extra frustrating with how a large chunk of the fan base genuinely believe sv is one of the best looking games on the switch
I agree with you: it's not. Even an "older" game, Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee look tons better everywhere: Characters, Pokemon and environments

and that the performances issues are because of how detailed it is.
loool I've never seen this justification! Dx That said, the poor performance is due to bad optimization

but they've been running into issues since at least swsh
I've been noticing slowdowns while playing DOCKED on my Switch. And I'm like: dude, this is just HD Sun/Moon/Ultra. Why is this so "heavy" on the console? I don't remember experiencing slowdowns on let's go

Maybe a little for the dlc,
Can't wait for people to speculate that we'll be getting Kanto remakes because we're getting Kanto based DLC hahahaha

I feel like many have been burnt out on the kanto/gen 1 pandering
After Alolan Formes, Let's Go, Kanto Pokemon getting even more Formes (Galarian) in SwSh, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team remake, I also think it's enough hahahahahha

I think it's time we get more pandering for the gens after Kanto, seeing as how they're gonna start being nostalgic hahahaha

and the pandering to other gens in the sv dlc was probably because gamefreak caught on to that burn out
Although this is a solid argument, I also think it could be because they're future proofing models or reutilizing models for projects they may have underway:
  • B/W Remakes
  • Legends Unova
  • Legends Celebii
  • Let's Go Johto
 
loool I've never seen this justification! Dx That said, the poor performance is due to bad optimization
it resurfaced a little bit on Twitter with the release of indigo disk but it was mainly around the original launch with people talking about the problem being the switch's hardware, a popular video went around of someone showing emulated footage which he claimed proved it was the fault of the switch performance plus switch pro/2 discussion boomed at the time with people claiming it was the only real solution to sv's problems.
Can't wait for people to speculate that we'll be getting Kanto remakes because we're getting Kanto based DLC hahahaha
Only if we finally get the lost Southern Kalos DLC lol
Although this is a solid argument, I also think it could be because they're future proofing models or reutilizing models
With the future proofing of models I wonder if they could make the nat dex a selling point of gen 10 dlc, they're pretty close already by the end of the dlc and it's especially likely if they were to start doing a 2nd dlc year like smash bros did
 
I haven't gotten into the DLC for Sc/Vi, but how big is the Pokedex now?

Having a National Dex on the next generation would be huge
It's somewhere around 600, based on survey questions it seems gamefreak might consider having additional dlcs In future entries and if they do its definitely a possibility for natdex and would be good selling point for the 30th anniversary
 
It's somewhere around 600, based on survey questions it seems gamefreak might consider having additional dlcs In future entries and if they do its definitely a possibility for natdex and would be good selling point for the 30th anniversary
It also gives them an excuse to spread out mainline released
 
S/V did some neat stuff but it really didn't earn how big the world is. You do so much exploring just to see more and more of the same Pokemon. Legends did it so much better, even if those were more so just open "zones."

True, Legends perfected the Sw/Sh Wild Area idea and made it unique. Now it's the next-gen's turn to perfect the open world idea.

And speaking of next gen, how much Gen 1 pandering are we expecting for Gen X, especially since it's may land on the franchise's anniversary?
Completely disagree here, Legends is markedly worse in terms of world design. Total lack of towns, the worst caves of the Switch games besides base SWSH (when even the DLC did them way better despite coming out earlier), and no real items to find as rewards because all you can find is common mats everywhere.
 
Completely disagree here, Legends is markedly worse in terms of world design. Total lack of towns, the worst caves of the Switch games besides base SWSH (when even the DLC did them way better despite coming out earlier), and no real items to find as rewards because all you can find is common mats everywhere.
I guess those aspects don’t matter that much to me (though I wasn’t really crazy about the towns, caves, and item finding in S/V either). What they did in regards to the actual Pokemon was actually refreshing to me, between finding them in the overworld (and the excitement of running into alphas), catching them in or out of battle, the evolutions being less restrictive, being able to complete the Pokédex without buying a whole other game or trading, etc. The only part really lacking, to me, was the trainer battles.
 
Legends has no towns outside of jubilife and the settlements, but jubilife village as a hub area was amazing imo. The way you "progressed" the village was really fun, and when the old theme kicks in later on in the game was nothing short of a magical moment for me.
 
I think bdsp ish remasters would've been recieved better if they did gen 5 or hggs since it would've been made with a more solid foundation. Prior to bdsp they set the expectation for remakes that heavily reworked the og games and I think mant didn't just want to revisit sinnoh but rather see how they'd improve it
Don't get me wrong I was also disappointed upon reveal, they looked worse than let's go games when everyone probably expected the remakes to be based on gen 8 games.
But in the end I accepted* what we got and had lots of fun.
 
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Legends has no towns outside of jubilife and the settlements, but jubilife village as a hub area was amazing imo. The way you "progressed" the village was really fun, and when the old theme kicks in later on in the game was nothing short of a magical moment for me.
Yeah I know they can't have every town be that in depth as jubilife village but an issue I felt with sv is that despite towns being as big if not bigger than jubilife that felt more or less as empty as the legends settlements and are honestly some of the weakest of any mainline game
 
I'm always surprised by the number of people who rate S/V so highly. GF can keep producing garbage without worrying.
S/V Has the same issue SwSh has: It needed at least one more year of cooking.

But if you are able to tolerate the tech issues - and it has so many that it's hard to believe it's a commercial product - the core game is fantastic, and as much of a realization of the original Pokémon concept as BotW is a realization of the original Zelda concept.

Gameplay and exploration wise, it takes everything Pokémon has done until now and does its best to perfect it. Even story wise, it's the best Pokémon has ever been. Yes, even better than Gen 5 and Gen 7.

It's the tech what drags the game through the mud. Tech side the only thing worse on Switch than this must be pre-update Ark, but the core of the game is good enough to give it a good rating.
 
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Going by this I think I might have to drop the series soon enough if I don't see any believable spark of hope.

I'm sorry but even if I try hard I can't empathize with positive comments on S/V. You call that exploration? I call Mount Coronet, Stark Mountain, Cerulean Cave exploration. But this is just one of the many, many, many issues modern pokemon games have.
 
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Going by this I think I might have to drop the series soon enough if I don't see any believable spark of hope.

I'm sorry but even if I try hard I can't empathize with positive comments on S/V. You call that exploration? I call Mount Coronet, Stark Mountain, Cerulean Cave exploration. But this is just one of the many, many, many issues modern pokemon games have.
Any of the caves from SV are easily better than those you mentioned. Having a couple of rocks to smash doesn’t really make them more compelling especially since they had no verticality at all being 2D games.
 
Please do not resort to ad hominem arguments. These are not conducive for discussion. - meatbag, Tangerine Cookie, big lantern ghost, MissingNo
Any of the caves from SV are easily better than those you mentioned. Having a couple of rocks to smash doesn’t really make them more compelling especially since they had no verticality at all being 2D games.
I've already seen you shilling the recent games over multiple forums so I'm not even going to attempt a critical analysis on why your downplaying of old level design is weak.
 
I'm sorry but even if I try hard I can't empathize with positive comments on S/V. You call that exploration? I call Mount Coronet, Stark Mountain, Cerulean Cave exploration
No dude, those are dungeons, and they do very little for exploration because Pokemon dungeons have always been one way only.

Exploration in Pokemon died with Gen 4 and was brought back with the Gen 8 DLC and then maximized with Gen 9. Thats a fact (btw Gen 9 has some amazing caves acting just like mere shortcuts)

Honestly, i'm not one to judge people's tastes, but your comment on exploration makes as little sense as your tier list. Go Eevee/Pikachu shouldnt exist? An incredibly solid remake of the originals? The Black and White duology almost top tier when SV's story is better build and resolved? The unbalanced Johto games on top?

Sorry but i have to press X for doubt.
 
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No dude, those are dungeons, and they do very little for exploration because Pokemon dungeons have always been one way only.

Exploration in Pokemon died with Gen 4 and was brought back with the Gen 8 DLC and then maximized with Gen 9. Thats a fact (btw Gen 9 has some amazing caves acting just like mere shortcuts)

Honestly, i'm not one to judge people's tastes, but your comment on exploration makes as little sense as your tier list. Go Eevee/Pikachu shouldnt exist? An incredibly solid remake of the originals? The Black and White duology almost top tier when SV's story is better build and resolved? The unbalanced Johto games on top?

Sorry but i have to press X for doubt.
You are not the one to judge people tastes.


Proceeds to do exactly that

Like there's no way I'm going to change your mind like you are not gonna change mine.

So just for the sake of it I'm gonna explain a little further what I mean.

Mount Coronet isn't just one way only, it's connected to multiple areas around the game by being at the center of Sinnoh, multiple layers get unlocked with your gym/HM progression. Yes those are dungeons.. Aren't dungeons about exploration? The basic routes themselves were better designed as well, SwSh had corridors and doesn't even have a Victory Road, SV even worse.

The story is better? Debatable. I'll give you that it had the foundation to outshine BW (I didn't put them in A just for the story but I guess cherrypicking is meta) but fell miserably in presentation and motivations of the characters. They did 13 months of Terapagos build up with the whole book and illustrations and Terapagos final form just ends up being a fluffy boi on top of a half sphere. Briar's spiral to madness to redeem her ancestor would have been cool if it wasn't just "sorry bros I fucked up but all's fine now". Sada/Turum in the crystal lake would have been a cool time paradox if they didn't give you the book making it a plot hole (they could have avoided it by saying it was a copy of the original book).
Johto has an inconsistent level curve? Yeah sure but how is game balance only mentioned to downplay Johto when all games after Gen 5 have no balance at all? You just blast through the main campaign without any second thought. The only exception might be USUM which tried to be somewhat challenging or Indigo Disk if you never played VGC and your team isn't full of level 100 already.

LGPE and BDSP are where they are because FOR ME they are an unnecessary reiterations and waste of resources. FRLG already perfected Gen 1, LGPE had a nice art direction but everything else was a downgrade from the tried and true formula that we were used to for decades. That's not to say they can't experiment with new mechanics, Legends nailed that, it's only in C because it inherited all the flaws of modern Pokémon games but anything from C up I find still worth playing.

BDSP on the other hand are the long awaited remake of my favourite generation and they are just.. The same game but with more varied underground and a chibi style that is impossible to take seriously. Oh and a broken launch. (Not like SV were in better shape then or now anyway) ORAS had their problems but they still had unique stuff that made them worth experiencing.

Do you love SV and think it's the best game ever made? That's fine.

Do you think the franchise hasn't been declining for 10 years and you are as excited as you were in your childhood for what's next? Fantastic.

But not everyone is gonna think that.

Oh right D/P had a lack of fire types in the regional dex and Gen 4 had a slow engine. I hate them now.

/s just in case

Also please don't "but they sold like hot cakes, even more than your favourite games" because yeah everybody knows that. The market is different from early 2000s and many more people are interested in gaming and on average have more spending power.
 
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Although I prefer a lot of games over the Let’s Go ones, I see them for what I personally think they are:
• Nintendo capitalizing on the Pokemon Go audience, trying to get them into mainline Pokemon, and as after effect: the Switch ecosystem;
• An omage to the Animé
 
Legends has no towns outside of jubilife and the settlements, but jubilife village as a hub area was amazing imo. The way you "progressed" the village was really fun, and when the old theme kicks in later on in the game was nothing short of a magical moment for me.

Yup Jubilife growth as you help improve the relationship between people and Pokemon was superb
 


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